Starting to Believe in the New Weapons (FEN)

Jhereg

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1% is quite a bit, and it shows with these weapons. If you paid 20k for that mace (i'm not sure what the value of that mace is), and you cycled 100k a month, you would pay off 50% of that mace in a year compared to if you were going to cycle with arcspark or similar weapon.

But you can't hunt indiscriminantly either.

97% actually isn't that much. The mace does not use shrapnel, which is an issue, because you could gain another 0.5% or more return from shrapnel conversion. But at 97%, there are mobs you should be able to break even and/or profit once you factor in MU.

Here are my viewpoints:

1) All weapons stay below 100% tt return rate.

2) There's a ladder of different efficiency weapons. There needs to be room for those weapon to operate. LP40 perfected versus your mace for example, there needs to be a difference.

3) Decrease loss increases a player's ability to cycle but decreases loot value, so you lose MU.

So, rules I live by:

Don't cycle more than you can afford. Cycle for markup. Don't cycle at 97% loss with no MU (Unless you got the means outside the game then go ahead).

Everyone plays this game for different reasons.

Imagine a poker table at a casino. House takes the rake, but the players play because they enjoy gambling, being social, and/or they have enough skill to tip the odds there way. It is not so different in Entropia.
 
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DuckiX

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I would like to add something as an "average joe". The concept of real economy is great at thats the reason why we all are here. Thats the only reason. The gamlbe side is also very cool... BUT.

From my perspective of playing heavily from February... MA took from me a lot of money. I did cover myself a lot from MU and from trading. But I really do believe MA took good 500+ USD since February. I did play heavily, but I do not believe, that taking 500 USD in 3 or 4 months is something MA could justify for an average player. It might not be a lot of money for the current average player of Entropia Universe, but it is in fact for me. From data collected, I see MA took 200 USD just from 14/05/2019 to 05/06/2019. For the whole 4 months experience, I did find 1 "treasure" (UL weapon, +400 MU). I have to say, I did hope for far more.

Most of the players play with hope to move forward in the game. Somple players can deposit more than others. It all depends.

But even "enjoyable 97%" return is not really sustainable for most of mobs. My current return based on 14/05 to 05/06 is 92.79%. Under 96% I would call it impossible to cover with MU (read, use other players, who do not mind to pay a bit more, so other players like me don't mind to hold resources for a bit, or grind boring mobs to achieve the fact, that I do not need to depo 200 a month)

I am the player, who did depo for a reason to speed up the game. I do hope to get my money back with a bit of something more. And I do not think, that there is anything wrong with this approach as long as I grind mobs for MU, trade a bit... u know put some extra effort, which folks with big pockets don't have to bother with. MA itself, in fact, marketing themselves with this approach. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seYNG29Y4HU

However, based on my experience. It is not really possible for an average joe to apply this strategy. And I think this is very wrong because if someone, who does not want to deposit crazy money every month and so on cannot play this game, then the game is missing out... a lot. Coz the community will be only smaller and smaller.

I do not know if you will see this as a whining response or not. But I would like to say, that this is a point of view of low-income player, who feels like the game does everything to push him away.

And I have to repeat again, I don't think, that taking 500+ USD while hunting low-mid mobs in 4 months is justifiable at all.
 
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RickEngland

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97% actually isn't that much. The mace does not use shrapnel, which is an issue, because you could gain another 0.5% or more return from shrapnel conversion. But at 97%, there are mobs you should be able to break even and/or profit once you factor in MU.

.
What mobs?

I chased spleen from Kreltins and Caprons, many were were doing the same, to the point that spleen was crashing from 113% to 106%. Amp crafters felt weakness in the oil oversupply and even held off crafting (I don't know if amp prices reduced becasue of that).

I chased output components selling around 200%, but there simply is not enough drops to cover 3%+ cost.

Not to mention there were times MA switched off the supply, I ran a 1000+ ped quite a few times and was lucky to get 2 oil drops. So even when you go after MU, we're up against other variables lowering the chance to cover MA's cost. All of which are variables out of our hands as hunters.

We could sit on our hands until we see a amp crafter burning up the oils with crafting globals...then hunt, which a lot of players do to feed off the system balancing drops. It's all old school tactics, but we'd hardly do any hunting...hahaha.

It's almost the same tactic players used to hoards dead limited guns, until they were ready to hunt the mobs that dropped them. Then dump their dead TT valued guns to TT, just before they hunted to pick up a new supply. Those people owned the market on L gun drops....until they got their wrists slapped by MA.

I had two small ESI's for over 80K turnover, of which I think only dropped becasue of mission rewrds and those skill gains. Apparently CP caves rain ESI's I didn't experience that, unless I wasn't hitting enough DPS to force the drops. But more DPS means running enhancers which cost MU, so we're in catch 22 situation. Burning any MU to hopingfully find more MU.....it's all smoke and mirrors stuff.

I have a feeling shaprnel is not part of the equation, becasue its not an auctionable item, I think it has a different category under the hood. In testing I'd done previously with shrapnel, selling it actually 'appeared' to make returns worse rather than TTing it. None of that can be proved of course, it's simply 6th sense stuff.

But even if sharpnel made a difference the mace has 10% better eco than a Mod Merc, so come on....where do we draw the line with hunting efficiently?

So where is the MU mate?

Rick
 

RickEngland

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No wonder. Must have missed that. I'm sorry.


No. of Maces UsedPED Loss/GainPED Spent
(No. of Maces * 635)
% Loss/Gain
(PED Loss/PED Spent)
22-May-192138127010.86614
23-May-199-1385715-2.41470
24-May-196-5813810-15.24934
25-May-192-3431270-27.00787
26-May-192.5-6651587.5-41.88976
29-May-196-2683810-7.03412
30-May-196-1293810-3.38582
31-May-196-473810-1.23359
01-Jun-1964338101.12861
02-Jun-197.5814762.51.70079
03-Jun-197-2814445-6.32171
04-Jun-194-1802540-7.08661
05-Jun-194-6382540-25.11811

So would these values be more correct? And if assuming they are,

No of maces used: 68
PED Spent: 68 * 635 = 43180 PEDs
PED Loss: -3008 PEDs

% Loss: -6.96619

Roughly 93% TT returns? (I took the liberty of not counting in the previous values since Rick didn't have any problem with their returns for that period of time.)

PS: Did I make any more errors anywhere? Please correct me. TQ
Looks ok, just need to add 6th June which was another 617 loss, and when I said enough is enough.

It's all irrelevant now anyhow, even if hunting fluctuates to bring a player to 97%, we still need to take into account if the system is set to allow you to hold that percentage if the system triggers blanket global ban. It's expensive enough just paying the 3%+ let alone other ped card draining tactics triggered on players.

Cheers

Rick
 

Jhereg

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What mobs?

I chased spleen from Kreltins and Caprons, many were were doing the same, to the point that spleen was crashing from 113% to 106%. Amp crafters felt weakness in the oil oversupply and even held off crafting (I don't know if amp prices reduced becasue of that).

I chased output components selling around 200%, but there simply is not enough drops to cover 3%+ cost.

Not to mention there were times MA switched off the supply, I ran a 1000+ ped quite a few times and was lucky to get 2 oil drops. So even when you go after MU, we're up against other variables lowering the chance to cover MA's cost. All of which are variables out of our hands as hunters.

We could sit on our hands until we see a amp crafter burning up the oils with crafting globals...then hunt, which a lot of players do to feed off the system balancing drops. It's all old school tactics, but we'd hardly do any hunting...hahaha.

It's almost the same tactic players used to hoards dead limited guns, until they were ready to hunt the mobs that dropped them. Then dump their dead TT valued guns to TT, just before they hunted to pick up a new supply. Those people owned the market on L gun drops....until they got their wrists slapped by MA.

I had two small ESI's for over 80K turnover, of which I think only dropped becasue of mission rewrds and those skill gains. Apparently CP caves rain ESI's I didn't experience that, unless I wasn't hitting enough DPS to force the drops. But more DPS means running enhancers which cost MU, so we're in catch 22 situation. Burning any MU to hopingfully find more MU.....it's all smoke and mirrors stuff.

I have a feeling shaprnel is not part of the equation, becasue its not an auctionable item, I think it has a different category under the hood. In testing I'd done previously with shrapnel, selling it actually 'appeared' to make returns worse rather than TTing it. None of that can be proved of course, it's simply 6th sense stuff.

But even if sharpnel made a difference the mace has 10% better eco than a Mod Merc, so come on....where do we draw the line with hunting efficiently?

So where is the MU mate?

Rick
Going to ignore the latter half (plus the part about MA shutting off spleen loot.. really?) of the post because that's a bit conjecture/conspiracy theory stuff but...

1) Personal experience:running caperons, shrooms make up 2% MU. So from mushrooms alone you'll meet 99% return.

2) Your spleen chasing example pretty much sums up why it is a real economy and why your strategy is not working...the market obeys supply and demand. By following what everyone else is doing, the only result is destroying any markup on that particular item. You could either hold the spleen until ppl realize how shit markup is on spleen and move along, or you could move mobs which have better return. But the inevitable result of chasing what everyone else is chasing is drop in value.

3) I'm not telling you what to hunt because reason 2. Please take some time to figure it out yourself. Not because I'm an asshole but because what works for you probably isn't what works for me and vice versa. But maybe a little because I'm an asshole.

and 4) Understand this game is a game. Players make choices that are illogical. A phenomenon that often shows up in games is where players are wiling to sell things below the price it takes to gather those items. Seems illogical, but players do it for whatever reason that is. Therefore, realize you have this working against you.

Anyways, my 2 pecs.

Zho
 
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Jhereg

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Also, an 10% change in eff between mace and mod merc would account for like...0.7% diff in tt return, so yeah...the shrapnel makes a difference. The amount of difference it makes depends on what you hunt. Caperons drop a lot of shrapnel, so a mod merc might end up with equal return accounting for shrapnel as your mace, if you end up TT'ing all your shrapnel.
 

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Going to ignore the latter half (plus the part about MA shutting off spleen loot.. really?) of the post because that's a bit conjecture/conspiracy theory stuff but...

1) Personal experience:running caperons, shrooms make up 2% MU. So from mushrooms alone you'll meet 99% return.

2) Your spleen chasing example pretty much sums up why it is a real economy and why your strategy is not working...the market obeys supply and demand. By following what everyone else is doing, the only result is destroying any markup on that particular item. You could either hold the spleen until ppl realize how shit markup is on spleen and move along, or you could move mobs which have better return. But the inevitable result of chasing what everyone else is chasing is drop in value.

3) I'm not telling you what to hunt because reason 2. Please take some time to figure it out yourself. Not because I'm an asshole but because what works for you probably isn't what works for me and vice versa. But maybe a little because I'm an asshole.

and 4) Understand this game is a game. Players make choices that are illogical. A phenomenon that often shows up in games is where players are wiling to sell things below the price it takes to gather those items. Seems illogical, but players do it for whatever reason that is. Therefore, realize you have this working against you.

Anyways, my 2 pecs.

Zho
You use the word "should" a lot, like this should happen or that should happen, and if it isn't happening as it 'should' then somehow that it's the player thats got it wrong.

I've done quite a few stages of Caprons, (I started the complete mission chain within a month) I had two mushroom drops over all those stages and sold for 65 ped each. So shroom drops are extremely rare, they are not raining in loot. In fact if a shroom dropped, the return on that run appeared to already anticipate MU. It was almost as if the shrrom dropped as compensation for bad returns not to gain profit.

Oil drops are NOT constant flow, there're wild fluctuation on oil drops. Are you suggesting that on average the amount of oils we should come back with per run is Consistent? Becasue it isn't.

I had hunting runs with say 1 or 2 oil drops for the whole run, I challenge MA to comment if you believe my facts are incorrect. There's no benefit to misinform, I simply state what happens.

We are told to seek markup correct? Then going for spleen is the correct thing to do, if it drops or not is out of our control. Selling stuff at market rate is perfectly reasonable thing to do, holding oils speculating on future rise also comes with risks. This is not player error or bad jusdgement, we simply seek the best return in the market.

So I ask you again, where is the markup?.

Some mobs drop shadow unlimited, why am I not looting it, if it "should" be lootable? You see my point.

Cheers

Rick

edit: MA could add a lower bound markup to say oils of say 5%, it's untradable under 5% but they won't. Plus if most players are crafting explo, there's always going to be an over supply of oils, constantly pushing the market to zero.

Now if we go back to 2006, when the main trading hub was in PA, there were literally loads of players almost begging to by eye oil (desperate for it becasue there wasn't enough for demand), it was not uncommon to sell that at 10% plus.

It is not the players that have driving the game into the floor.
 
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Jhereg

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Really I think I'm wasting my breath.

But here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14GUENEXdx8ubt8_21FLvs1c3fUSffdD_09LrL7AfUX4/edit?usp=sharing


Spleen is something like 10-15%, i could pull the numbers out for you but yes it is, on average, going to consistently settle around some percentage, and you can figure it yourself if you hunt enough of them.

But I think I'm done with this thread, sorry, but I think you are really set in your thinking and nothing will change that.

But if you actually care, pick up a statistics and probabilities book or find a class online, I think anyone who plays this game should learn somethings about statistics and probabilities.
 

Evey

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I think anyone who plays this game should learn somethings about statistics and probabilities.
NO!!!!
PERCEPTION!
+ under the hood, global ban, flagged, chosen, hot loot....
Fuck science, statistics, probabilities, basic math or common sense!!
 

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I would like to add something as an "average joe"
I am writing just to answer to this guy, he seems to have the right mindset, from others I would expect more reason given their experience ingame.

Mate, you lack some background in regards to EU. The only thing which stayed fixed since day 0 of Entropia is that 10 PED equals 1$. From a business perspective, it is in itself a huge achievement for MA, looking around what gigantic names in finance and whatnot went bellyup in the meantime.

However, they set themselves up some traps along the way, from the point of view of average joe you're mentioning. Which in itself is correct.

That is, given that a dollar is a dollar and was always a dollar, the turnover and skill inflation ingame per last 16 years since game went gold are a few magnitudes above IRL.

If I am not mistaken, the real-life $ inflation per last 16 years is roughly 30%. There should also be some purchasing power modification taken into account.

One way or another, compared to 10+years ago, the player would comfortably pay +- aprox 20% more PED per time spent in game & hp killed.

The problem is, 14+ years ago only extreme hunters (of which some proved to be mainly botters and had their asses banned out) would reach 900 ped per hour turnover. That meant throwing some, say, mode merc at atrox stalkers or spider stalkers (which were different mobs to today) and reaping some very solid reward for it. Imk2 was also up there somewhere.

However under this tier there was nothing. Like, literally nothing. The next tier of turnover if you lacked the cash to buy MM/IMK2 (2-300k peds at times) was, dunno, adj v1, mk5me etc. Also some fat cash for it.

Next tier was already ep40/41 and the likes and then just mk2/valor and finally the lower horde of jester/1x0.

A mid skilled player back then (100k skills let's say not very spread, pretty much your case) if would had have the cash to chip in for adj v1 (here I am at a loss, 16k maybe? can't remember) would have looked at a turnover of, maybe, 1k ped for day.

Keep in mind this was represeting the top 10% of active playerbase. Majority of us were floating at some 4-500 maximum per day turnover and sweating plebs at whatever found on the ground, from 10-30 peds smth per day.

While nowadays you have at lvl15 ArMatrix lp-15 which can chew some 6-700 per an evening of play. And what is ArMatrix lp-15 in the scale of economy?

This is where Rick (and the overwhelming vast majority of players) fail, but also MA failed by lack of foresight. I hold against him that he's not reasonable, it should be obvious where he's wrong, but I also hold against MA, that they didn't thought at a normal-minded level of expense for somebody with a job and a family, otherwise the cathegory most prone to sustain this game. It's the Ricks who pay for the servers, not the messis.

I do hope in the long term they will come up with a sidegame, a branching which loot 2.0 and eff allows, a sort of low-budget planet but very demanding skillwise. Somewhere where to kill a mob which costs like an argo young but hits like a lvl60 cyrene mob, that's what is needed. Maybe transform that useless Next Island into this.

So that's what I wanted to wrote. From this perspective the game is profoundly broken and you must by all means resist to the temptation of skills. Don't grab the highest weapon you can use, it's real money just as it was 10-15 years ago, but easier to spend.
 

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It's the Ricks who pay for the servers, not the messis.
We all pay the servers with some %.The only difference is that I pay with Rick's money my share of server's cost (insert other costs here)
I had to correct that before new registered players read some stupid shit and spread it in the Universe as facts.
Just because some people decide to be born losers doesn't translate into he pay the servers. Its a lot more easier for losers to say that because its obvious their PED are gone and now they must deposit another so like everything in life we must blame someone about our fault.Its never our mistake.
 

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We all pay the servers with some %.The only difference is that I pay with Rick's money my share of server's cost (insert other costs here)
So you are saying here that Rick is actually paying.. which strengthens what Kerham said.

I had to correct that before new registered players read some stupid shit and spread it in the Universe as facts.
So let it be known that Messi pays the server costs with Rick's money. You said it, so those are the facts.

Just because some people decide to be born losers doesn't translate into he pay the servers. Its a lot more easier for losers to say that because its obvious their PED are gone and now they must deposit another so like everything in life we must blame someone about our fault.Its never our mistake.
It's not about blame.. it's just that average Joe pays the server costs, because you don't (You use Rick's money)

The problem that Kerham describes is real though. What if all the average Joe's do something like this:

Your withdrawal with ID: 14233301 for 17000.00 PED has been successfully registered. We will now process your order.

And no longer pay the server cost? Who's money is needed to pay for the server then?
 

Kerham

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We all pay the servers with some %.The only difference is that I pay with Rick's money my share of server's cost (insert other costs here)
I had to correct that before new registered players read some stupid shit and spread it in the Universe as facts.
Just because some people decide to be born losers doesn't translate into he pay the servers. Its a lot more easier for losers to say that because its obvious their PED are gone and now they must deposit another so like everything in life we must blame someone about our fault.Its never our mistake.
Mate, I kind of avoided you usually. Please watch your language in regards to "losers".

You can do what you do because you live in Romania and there's this intersection of cost of living/cost to play/IRL circumstances which makes it a thing only in a few Eastern European countries. For the average guy in western Europe, your style of living is neither possible neither desirable.

- we can't withdraw with the same financial liberty as in Romania, from a tax point of view
- Entropia can't possibly pay as much as an average IRL job (roundabout 1800€ netto in UK/Netherlands/Germany/France/Austria, some few hundreds more in Scandinavia or Switzerland but also hell of expensive), month by month, no ifs and buts
- Entropia doesn't offer the security of a work contract from Western Europe (security which in itself doesn't exist in Romania, workers' rights are a joke), neither the security of the IRL economy in itself; IRL I will find a job if present employer goes bust, I wish Entropia will survive for decades to come, but is not reasonable for me to bet on it, neither for 90%+ of depositors
- Entropia doesn't pay unemployment insurance/pension/medical healthcare/saving schemes, and then the actual refference is not the netto salary, but the before tax sum, and then we're comparing it with circa 3k€-3,5k€ in mentioned countries; that's an average salary, medics, skilled programmers, financial consultants etc etc are raking in alot more (and we have such very well paid people in EU too)

From these points of view, your most important investition in EU, which is time, is not a rentable investition for the "losers" elsewhere. The financial investition is actually easy for most of us. A regular consumption credit of, say, 10k€-15k€ to get one set with various things is not so scary given the IRL economy, but the problem is that is not rentable, there is no reason to do it, for an activity which we do 2-3-4 hours per evening, 3-4 days per week and even less in average.

Then, I am 39. I have some life behind me and some achievements, and my work is visible in most of Europe for the last 5 years and is still is and will be for the foreseable future. We are here from all walks of life, most of us decent people with families and jobs which share this hobby. We're not losers, not compared to you, anyway, you're nobody special except your dedication to the game, which of course is in itself an achievement, within the universe of the game.

Now getting to your statement, is a fracture of logic. There are no $ in this game except deposited ones. If we are to believe your claims (such as "selling unl amount of esi") and seeing various selling threads of some uber items, and making some reasonable assumption about your overall value, and also assuming you're not insane, then you're well over your investition, most likely even discounting skills. Hence, you're running a positive balance versus the game itself (and I would guess it is so already for the last 2 years maybe even 3), so you can't literally pay for the servers. Go and check MA's report, their only source of income is deposits, there is nothing else. Decay ingame is not a recognised currency by any bank or financial institution, MA can't pay their bills with "decay", that is a business tool of balance for MindArk.

That being said, I don't consider profitable players a burden for the game, they're the opposite, both as models and engines of various activities (e.g. Auktuma on crafted armours).

It is a simple truth that from a business point of view and directly financially, MA survives from depositors who withdraw less than they deposited. As customers, these people have an obvious right to have fun, and that's where MA failed partially. In same time they do have a solid merit in keeping the game alive, so I am not quick to judge.

Try to enlarge your horizon of thinking and cut down a bit that arrogance, it is not justified.
 

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So you are saying here that Rick is actually paying.. which strengthens what Kerham said.



So let it be known that Messi pays the server costs with Rick's money. You said it, so those are the facts.



It's not about blame.. it's just that average Joe pays the server costs, because you don't (You use Rick's money)

The problem that Kerham describes is real though. What if all the average Joe's do something like this:

Your withdrawal with ID: 14233301 for 17000.00 PED has been successfully registered. We will now process your order.

And no longer pay the server cost? Who's money is needed to pay for the server then?
I am saying I pay the same cost as Rick is paying multiplied by the amount of turnover we are having.If you don't like my way of explaining things then I pay with my own money the server costs and later on using the game mechanics and tools and my ability to read the game history and using proper investment, time and everything else on this side of the world I am able to extract more value from my work than Rick does, therefore Rick lose twice while I lose just once to Mindark my share and later on I collect small % from players like Rick.

Costs are real obviously, no problem in that though.I am glad you figured out Minark has a legal business plan that makes all of us consumers.

If average joe decide to withdraw means he got what Mindark is well know for : Being able to return the money you currently have in your account at that date if you request them part of witch most of registered so I don't see anything wrong with that.
I am not concerned what happen if one or two decide to take their money back since its not my business to analyse that and I don't see how this would affect my gameplay. I am sure Mindark has a plan for that.
 

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It's all because Messi, has the top 1 item in-game and a shit ton of time/dedication.
The Unique Reaper blade was basically made to make you be the one at top 1 profit player. And since MA can never lose, we're all paying for Messi's profits.

It has the highest dpp, and highest efficiency in-game. It's a no brainer Messi can live off EU with it in loot 2.0. If he couldn't then it would be a really bad sign for the game and no hope for anyone. If I had that blade and skills to use it, i would totally quit my job and just play EU.

The problem is the lack of balance, every few years there's been an era of 1-3 weapons which allowed rich enough players to sustain themselves and profit in RL because they were just so overpowered and eco.

I don't think its right to have 1-3 weapons with such a massive gap in superior capabilities compared to other weapons, just so certain ppl with rich enough pockets can stay at the top.

The game should take into consideration your looter skills (right now it seems placebo from MA) and what mob you hunt, and at what time in order to profit, not just Efficiency, and Dpp. So it should be brain involved to make profit not just gear.

Loot 2.0 is basically like Loot 1.0, but it has severely limited access to profit for most ppl unless they can invest 100k+ in gear Nowadays have enough efficiency and dpp, and hunt right mobs with enough time/cycling, you can profit.

At 80% efficiency from my own experience so far, it's really hard to profit, long term. It seems they only allow you to profit at 90%+ efficiency.

In loot 1.0 you could use a regular item like 60% efficiency. And still profit if you used EST armor, with accuracy enhancers. Something that is no longer worth it anymore.

Now most players who use 60% efficiency, can't profit longterm, unless they participate in events and win, and hunt big enough mob with enough MU to cover the 93-94% TT return.

So it basically destroys hopes of most ppl to break even, or profit a little, because only 1% of playerbase can afford such gear. Hence the lack of balance.
 

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Gaina "Messi91" Cristi
Mate, I kind of avoided you usually. Please watch your language in regards to "losers".
Try harder next time.This time you failed and yes you are also a loser (by my own standards in this game we are all playing).I just watched my language and its adequate to your avatar in this game and your actions in this forum.As for your private life as you brought it up to the table please keep it for yourself and don't bring it to the table here its irrelevant and we don't give a shit.I don't really want to find out that you have the same habits as Rick's wife earlier presented on these forums just by himself, his words.Please!
 

Kerham

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Try harder next time.This time you failed and yes you are also a loser (by my own standards in this game we are all playing).
When you engage in a public exchange of ideas, be them of any nature, you can't impose *your* standards. It just doesn't work this way.

I will repeat what I said earlier, maybe it was too complicated. You log in EU to work. When you want to have fun, maybe you log into LoL or whatever. Of course, you could also have fun in EU, but your main effort in EU is work. Our work is 9 to 17 at some random job, wherever that might be. We log in EU primarily for fun. It is not a sustainable proposition to be a *loser* when is about fun, even if the fun activity itself might be a competition or pvp. *We* are not in a competition with you, our real income is made elsewhere. For *us* a profit of 1$ in a month might be fun, for you it would be a waste of time.

*Your* standards stem from this business-like approach. *Our* standards stem from comparing EU to a restaurant lunch or an evening at some fair or whatever other hobbies/fun activities one might fancy. These are vastly different perspectives and MA failed to integrate them both, for the time being. I have faith they will settle it at some point, and come up with more options for more cathegories, Batsim or the defense/speed kill mayhem mode were steps in the right direction, imo.

EU for the last 20ish months of activity costed me 'round 150$ monthly. That's the equivalent of three meals at a good restaurant and is about the maximum I am willing to pay on EU. For me personally, EU still provides fun, but I am a bit of a nerd about it. For others, I can totally see how it doesn't. In the same time, just as I would bash the waiter/cook for a failed order, it's totally legit to bash MA when they don't provide fun the way *I* want it. Because it's about *my* money. Same is valid for Rick, nomatter how wrong factually his objections might be (because them are, at least from a statistic point of view, a quackery). MA is the one with the burden of providing him a desirable service, because he is a customer, not the other way around.

It is not Rick's fault that somebody with a skillcount of already 200k (prettymuch when the costs become out of pace with reasonable expectations) doesn't have any option in EU for actual fun. And he's 400k. It is MindArk's fault, and that is indisputable.

Hence, *your* standards about wether or not me or other players are "losers" are unsubstantiated and, eventually, food for your ego, but that's your problem. You're, like, flexing muscles in the mirror, alone in the bathroom. Good for you, eventually, but it's not relevant for anybody else.
 

messi91

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wall of text
I've read 5 minutes and I simply couldn't remember what I just read so i can't reply on point directly on the subject or a question.
I will reiterate what I said in my previous text.We all pay server costs.The more we spend the more we pay.That was my initial correction and you are talking me to another dimension I am not interested to engage in a conversation with you mainly because I have nothing to learn from you to become a better player in this game.
 

girtsn

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I had to correct that before new registered players read some stupid shit and spread it in the Universe as facts.
Just because some people decide to be born losers doesn't translate into he pay the servers. Its a lot more easier for losers to say that because its obvious their PED are gone and now they must deposit another so like everything in life we must blame someone about our fault.Its never our mistake.
Arrogance is strong with this one.
Messi is telling people to grind as hard as they can and that then they would succeed knowing full well he cannot make that promise. That is lying. I have heard plenty of people who claim to have tried his "strategy" out and failed hard.
Suppose when selling snake-oil he is not advertising the losses he/myself pulled through starting the game, nor that efficiency and shit does not work for some of us like it does for him. Selective truth.
In the end some are just concerned with getting others deposit as much as they can, so that the chosens can get something out of it.
P.S.
I had to mention that as messi is full of "stupid shit and spread it in the Universe as facts"
 

RickEngland

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I don't view shooting 24/7 everyday in a digital game as 'winning' either.

I'm currently focusing on real life, I'm in the midst of buying my family a new home and making my wife very happy (double the size if my current home). If all goes to plan, I'll be living 5 mins from sandy beaches.

I'm having a sign made to hang in my kitchen, which will read "Always on holiday". Now that's what I call "winning". I might even buy a boat...one step at a time.

I've still got that FEN mace, and the adjusted jag armour. Maybe I'll pop in now and then. I dont miss it to be honest, I'm over it. I escaped..haha.

I simply can't be bothered with the pain, I'm seeking happiness these days. You look after yourselves folks.

Rick xx
 

True Juan

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In the beginning it was kinda funny when Messi was a little arrogant but now I think the ego is way up high...

I liked the game more when Stryker, Star, Lindsey were the Golden Children...

It will start being bad for the game if MA keep Messi as the "Idol to look up to".

Lets see how long MA will hold on to Messi :)
 

girtsn

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In the beginning it was kinda funny when Messi was a little arrogant but now I think the ego is way up high
...
Lets see how long MA will hold on to Messi :)
I think this is just the reality of today just like we can observe with clowns "winning" elections using social media, shouting, lying and calling others "fake news".
* the ones who appear successful, can win over folks just by appearance. actual tracking and numbers, who gives a fuck
* the ones keeping high visibility by streaming can influence the public thought much easier (e.g. "one famous streamer" apparently said that my shooters are stealing and that's why my returns are bad, no proof but who gives a fuck right the direction of thought is planted)
* the ones having exploited the old system to the max just have more $ to throw at the new one
* the ones being narcissistic pricks on the forum have their following increase by being "interesting"

and I also kindof expect the office knows what messi is, but he brings in new players so who cares about "how"
I just never wanted and still don't want to become like that
 

allarom

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Without choosing any side, just think about it:

Mulciber = 50130 HP
Brood of All = 2850 HP

At the time when 50k mulcibers has been killed, there has been 850k Brood of Alls killed. Is 50k kills enough for reliable return %- Hell no. Is 850k kills enough for reliable return %- Rather yes.

50k mulcibers is around same cycle since one participant hasn't been blessed over 6k hof
850k Brood of Alls are able to produce around 700 mutated bones from bosses alone (based on 2.5k kills for boss and 1-3 bones droprate from boss)

There are mobs where year or two is not enough for reflecting effects of your efficiency / looter level. There are mobs that produces so much MU that you don't even have to worry about effect about efficiency / looter level

I strongly believe in efficiency and looter level. And yes- you have to cycle enough for correct results. All those named "chosen" avatars has grinded teir balls off that might seems sketchy if they hit over and over again, but i don't believe in some magic button for each avatar that can be used for turning loot on and off...
 

wizz

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I don't view shooting 24/7 everyday in a digital game as 'winning' either.

I'm currently focusing on real life, I'm in the midst of buying my family a new home and making my wife very happy (double the size if my current home). If all goes to plan, I'll be living 5 mins from sandy beaches.

I'm having a sign made to hang in my kitchen, which will read "Always on holiday". Now that's what I call "winning". I might even buy a boat...one step at a time.

I've still got that FEN mace, and the adjusted jag armour. Maybe I'll pop in now and then. I dont miss it to be honest, I'm over it. I escaped..haha.

I simply can't be bothered with the pain, I'm seeking happiness these days. You look after yourselves folks.

Rick xx

Finally Rick!!!
There's life outside of entropia!

Sounds good man! :thumbup:

{DELETED Messi QUOTE}

So we can all see you have much to learn yet.
Sure, you know how to click a mouse.
Nice one!

Now, maybe open a curtain every now and then an look outside.
You know, the real world. It's there. Just open your front door, if you have one and step out.
Meet the world. There's people there. With lives, wives, kids etc.

I know, this might sound strange and alien to you, but, just try it. You might even like it.
 
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girtsn

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this is kind of implying I am shooting mulcibers nonstop, but then I am not, I have for years avoided them as plague just to discover this year that their loot is very consistent in line with the 95% tt baseline, the only problem is forced use of enhancers (MU in) - so I visit them once every weekend

"strongly believing in efficiency and looter level" - it is of course fine to strongly believe in something, I did believe it when my tt return went up after acquiring the unique blade, but then as it went down to "normal" just 4 months later the believing part started to fail, even more so after throwing away my inefficient tagger replacing it with aimk2 then upgrading to arso chip 4 the last being upgrading to trauma amp 10 fen edition (all the while improving my looter levels)
Mulciber = 50130 HP
Brood of All = 2850 HP
...
I strongly believe in efficiency and looter level. And yes- you have to cycle enough for correct results. All those named "chosen" avatars has grinded teir balls off that might seems sketchy if they hit over and over again, but i don't believe in some magic button for each avatar that can be used for turning loot on and off...
 

RickEngland

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Have you ever considered sharing your real life stories on .... 'load of blurb'
.
I'm not sure what irritates you more. The realisation that spending your entire life hunting pixels is a measure of success. Or that I don't care I bought a FEN item and it's sitting there doing nothing, as I view it as worthless bullshit.

I really like my full collection of EU top end pets, they maybe in storage for months now unused, although I find your 'pet attacks' quite funny. You use it to grow your ego, but fails to impress anyone else.

Good to hear though you remembered my comment about getting a BJ while hunting. Man...those days were entertaining. My wife is still as awesome as ever. Get yourself a good woman and try it, life is too short.

Like I said. I will pop in now and then to do some 'hunting'. But for now I've got better things in life atttacting my time and money.

I'm sorry Messi, I don't look up to you as a God. You're just another player in the system in my eyes. I'm not impressed.

Good day

Rick.
 

allarom

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this is kind of implying I am shooting mulcibers nonstop, but then I am not, I have for years avoided them as plague just to discover this year that their loot is very consistent in line with the 95% tt baseline, the only problem is forced use of enhancers (MU in) - so I visit them once every weekend

"strongly believing in efficiency and looter level" - it is of course fine to strongly believe in something, I did believe it when my tt return went up after acquiring the unique blade, but then as it went down to "normal" just 4 months later the believing part started to fail, even more so after throwing away my inefficient tagger replacing it with aimk2 then upgrading to arso chip 4 the last being upgrading to trauma amp 10 fen edition (all the while improving my looter levels)
Looter profession was introduced at 27th march in 2018

Since then you have 96.7% tt return (ammo + repairs = 5753276 PED and loot received 5561200 PED). Considering process of builing up looter levels, is this return really that bad?
 
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girtsn

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judging by my hof statistics compared to other high turnover, yes pretty sure others were living all 2018 and most of 2019 with tt returns like in my 4 good months. of course there is no proof as nobody else is publishing any statistics.

after all I was getting the same 96% or so the time before looter profstandings which made me lose ~150k in 18 months from 2016 to february of 2018 - all while spending a lot of money and effort to get both efficiency and looter up as high as I could
Looter profession was introduced at 27th march in 2018
Since then you have 96.7% tt return (ammo + repairs = 5753276 PED and loot received 5561200 PED). Considering process of builing up looter levels, is this return really that bad?
 
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