News: Statement Regarding the Future of Mayhem

[Aloisius]

I'm really happy that a dialog around the subject is been opened.

Let's see some real effort into another AMA - I mean why not have this every year or month even?

 

[Creo]

I did not mean increase prices on already existing items. What I meant was - They could add completely new types of items, which have significantly higher costs. Instead of re-stocking the same previous weapons over and over again.

It is the same effect though. New item or not it cannot be afforded by those holding the tokens.

Also how many more new UL items that would be considered, a good pull, do you think this game can still afford?

Each new pull has a direct impact to the game, economy and all players. (As well as the Markup of currently existing items)

 

[Creo]

why develloping a economic system based on mining, hunt craft. if you make direct shop for final item ?
why dont more exploit the rich system ingame, with planet mob , space, specific mob location loot.
mayhem mob can drop token, call them different and make them usefull as component with other stuff from everywhere.
wielding wire blueprint evolution was great. world need more stuff like that.
entropia is turning slowly into a paying diablo-game like. entropia worth better than that.

Agreed. Rare Materials from Mayhem and all planets as well as Limited Blueprints should be the requirements to craft epic UL items.
This links all professions together in the pursuit to craft the UL items and there is markup on everything.

Everything is sellable, tradeable, huntable, mineable and craftable.

This is the Entropia WAY.

Lets stop relying on 'vendors' and 'tokens' and instead go back to the basics. (That shit is lame...so freaking boring.)

While I still want once in a very long time super EPIC UL world drop the vast majority of UL should instead
come from crafting epically rare and extremely difficult blueprints that are discovered or dropped in crafting/mining/looting with extremely
high skill/profession requirements and high fail rates.

This would make new UL entering the game controllable by MindArk and self limiting.

The rising tide will raise MU for all professions. People will again have a purpose for high-end gear.


How is it fun to 'predictably' get anything?!

What is fun is not knowing if you will get something, having a risk of failure, failing, and then succeeding.

Good'ol Project Entropia 101.

 

[John B Knight]

It is the same effect though. New item or not it cannot be afforded by those holding the tokens.

Also how many more new UL items that would be considered, a good pull, do you think this game can still afford?

Each new pull has a direct impact to the game, economy and all players. (As well as the Markup of currently existing items)

unlimited items have been entering this game for the past 20 years - not each item is sold on not every avatar sells everything when they become inactive for awhile - this game can afford plenty more ul items especially if they are not weapons or are weapons for an extended lvlrange or profs previously not covered

the issue isnt that something ul enters the game which has happened for 20 consecutive years - the issue is that alot of the new stuff is all for the same range of hunters and players have no further path to advance to in a time when new players are comming slowly and success stories are hard to find (again because of destroyed markups and lack of longterm goals/achievments yet to reach)

 

[Aloisius]

Instead of instances for Mayhem , all events should be held on player land areas.
Also , allow player owners the ability to drop items into their land area loot spawn.

DID I ever tell everyone how much I hate instances?! It's the bane of a persistent universe. Why even bother simulation of persistence if you gotta have instances. Instances are stupid and immersion breaking. PLEASE stop making instances. Remove them altogether. Bones has some great ideas here. Please take our advices!
PS I want people to tell MA how much instances ruin the game... I hate instances! Say it with me! We Hate Instances!

 

[Creo]

unlimited items have been entering this game for the past 20 years - not each item is sold on not every avatar sells everything when they become inactive for awhile - this game can afford plenty more ul items especially if they are not weapons or are weapons for an extended lvlrange or profs previously not covered

the issue isnt that something ul enters the game which has happened for 20 consecutive years - the issue is that alot of the new stuff is all for the same range of hunters and players have no further path to advance to in a time when new players are comming slowly and success stories are hard to find (again because of destroyed markups and lack of longterm goals/achievments yet to reach)

The issue is that UL items and the way they enter the game currently do NOTHING to contribute to the markup of materials.
UL as it currently stands is a detriment and NOT a benefit to the ingame economy.

This is why Limited items were added to the game because they 'CONTRIBUTE' to the economy.

Any new Unlimited items should come into the game through crafting with (L) blueprints with very high prof/skill requirements,
low success rates with a significant amount of materials of different rarities from all planets.

Each new UL item could require different materials which MindArk can set to assist with boosting
materials of low markup universe-wide for any given profession.

Not just be a one and done on a vendor after you go solo grind and hand only 'your' decay MINUS any MARKUP to MindArk to get your prize.

TLDR:
MORE UL entering the game = Worsening markup on materials and Limited in-game items that are crafted.
New UL items need to enter the game through crafting (L) Blueprints with very high skill requirements, low success rates, and requiring large
amounts of multiple materials universe-wide.

P.S. The crafter who crafts the EPIC UL item should have their name imprinted on it as a reward along with w/e HoF they get.

 

[Mike Kaffeslukarn Morazi]

Also how many more new UL items that would be considered, a good pull, do you think this game can still afford?

Quite a few actually, due to the large amount of tokens that players have farmed since they introduced Resource Mayhem.

Each new pull has a direct impact to the game, economy and all players. (As well as the Markup of currently existing items)

Exactly this is something that everyone who was farming hundreds of thousands of Mtokens during RM should have thought about back in May-June. But now we are in the situation we are. Some people farmed 150K tokens in 3 years. Others farmed 600k tokens in 5 weeks.

 

[Creo]

Quite a few actually, due to the large amount of tokens that players have farmed since they introduced Resource Mayhem.



Exactly this is something that everyone who was farming hundreds of thousands of Mtokens during RM should have thought about back in May-June. But now we are in the situation we are. Some people farmed 150K tokens in 3 years. Others farmed 600k tokens in 5 weeks.

Why did everyone do that? Did MindArk guarantee that everyone would get a good pull from a vendor?

Still have not answered the question.

 

[John B Knight]

The issue is that UL items and the way they enter the game currently do NOTHING to contribute to the markup of materials.
UL as it currently stands is a detriment and NOT a benefit to the ingame economy.

This is why Limited items were added to the game because they 'CONTRIBUTE' to the economy.

Any new Unlimited items should come into the game through crafting with (L) blueprints with very high prof/skill requirements,
low success rates with a significant amount of materials of different rarities from all planets.

Each new UL item could require different materials which MindArk can set to assist with boosting
materials of low markup universe-wide for any given profession.

Not just be a one and done on a vendor after you go solo grind and hand only 'your' decay MINUS any MARKUP to MindArk to get your prize.

TLDR:
MORE UL entering the game = Worsening markup on materials and Limited in-game items that are crafted.
New UL items need to enter the game through crafting (L) Blueprints with very high skill requirements, low success rates, and requiring large
amounts of multiple materials universe-wide.

P.S. The crafter who crafts the EPIC UL item should have their name imprinted on it as a reward along with w/e HoF they get.

that is a very narrow view of our economy, the benefit to the economy may not come from the weapons decay itself and only minor from dmg enhancers though a good weapon economy allows more readily to afford dmg enhancers which is a direct contribution...but the actual economic impact is the consecutive weapon upgrade and sale of a weapon giving a player marketvalue to spent on a whole range of other goods which are part of the economy. its like buying a house in real and complaining that it doesnt contribute to the economy because its already build and doesnt need renovation for the next decade...the trade of any high value good benefits the economy even if its just through the exchange of valueation and allowing tradepartners to spent on many smaller things elsewhere

 

[Mike Kaffeslukarn Morazi]

Why did you all do that?

I did not. personally.

 

[Creo]

that is a very narrow view of our economy, the benefit to the economy may not come from the weapons decay itself and only minor from dmg enhancers though a good weapon economy allows more readily to afford dmg enhancers which is a direct contribution...but the actual economic impact is the consecutive weapon upgrade and sale of a weapon giving a player marketvalue to spent on a whole range of other goods which are part of the economy. its like buying a house in real and complaining that it doesnt contribute to the economy because its already build and doesnt need renovation for the next decade...the trade of any high value good benefits the economy even if its just through the exchange of valueation and allowing tradepartners to spent on many smaller things elsewhere

So pretty much... your answer is let more UL needlessly enter the game affecting the economy (markup free mind you).

All markup for materials eventually goto 101% for hunters and crafters.
Then all crafters can craft enhancers for Unlimited weapon owners. lol

The same UL owners who will also turn in only decay to grind tokens to get even more UL to sell in the game.

Screw other players, screw the ingame economy at least they got their grind and the ability to sell overpriced UL weapons
that they set the price on (markup free for them) in game. Especially when now...the only way to win would be to own UL.

I think you are the one with the narrow view of the economy.

 

[John B Knight]

Why did everyone do that? Did MindArk guarantee that everyone would get a good pull from a vendor?

Still have not answered the question.

you dont have a guarantee from mindark when you depo, you dont have a real recourse to get back what you spent, mindarks bussiness is based on us trusting them to mmanage the game in a way that the rce environment which is the core of the game can strife - if that trust doesnt exist the game fails - so while there is no guarantee its a mutual understanding that screwing the rce part up and breaking the given trust will be to both parties demise and therefor an unlikely event to occur as both will strife to avoid it
this is the same for depos as it is for any ingame longterm activity

 

[John B Knight]

So pretty much... your answer is let more UL needlessly enter the game affecting the economy (markup free mind you).

All markup for materials eventually goto 101% for hunters and crafters.
Then all crafters can craft enhancers for Unlimited weapon owners. lol

The same UL owners who will also turn in only decay to grind tokens to get even more UL to sell in the game.

I think you are the one with the narrow view of the economy.

just because one thing exists doesnt mean that all the other things cant - variety is the key and offering new opportunities to grow and advance - not shutting down a huge part of an economy which is already in decline

 

[Creo]

you dont have a guarantee from mindark when you depo, you dont have a real recourse to get back what you spent, mindarks bussiness is based on us trusting them to mmanage the game in a way that the rce environment which is the core of the game can strife - if that trust doesnt exist the game fails - so while there is no guarantee its a mutual understanding that screwing the rce part up and breaking the given trust will be to both parties demise and therefor an unlikely event to occur as both will strife to avoid it
this is the same for depos as it is for any ingame longterm activity

Just like nobody who grinded Mayhem tokens are guaranteed to get anything.

So again where is the betrayal by MindArk. Players made decisions.

 

[Agg]

I think as community/playerbase we are failling to demand from MA the actions that matter for us and them, trough one voice, not individual suggestions text walls on forums and discord.Situation must be treated clear and simple.Both parties(MA and playerbase) should be satisfied which is not the case here.If it's not the case the employee/employees responsible for this situation must be changed/hire and create a team who is prepared for this kind of activity such as professions/skills/items/resources/events/missions created to be balanced, to have the full view of the game and which can be held accountable or be rewarded for their activity, somebody specialized/experienced.
Short example: I don't go to the restaurant and tell the chef what to put in their recipies or what recipies to use. If I don't like I tell to the owner.If more customers goes to him, he will must take a decision: change the chef or risk to lose customers.

 

[Creo]

just because one thing exists doesnt mean that all the other things cant - variety is the key and offering new opportunities to grow and advance - not shutting down a huge part of an economy which is already in decline

So what are you trying to say? You answered nothing in what I previously said.

Try re-reading what I posted again:

So pretty much... your answer is let more UL needlessly enter the game affecting the economy (markup free mind you).

All markup for materials eventually goto 101% for hunters and crafters.
Then all crafters can craft enhancers for Unlimited weapon owners. lol

The same UL owners who will also turn in only decay to grind tokens to get even more UL to sell in the game.

Screw other players, screw the ingame economy at least they got their grind and the ability to sell overpriced UL weapons
that they set the price on (markup free for them) in game. Especially when now...the only way to win would be to own UL.

I think you are the one with the narrow view of the economy.

 

[Creo]

I did not. personally.

Me either. So I guess question is then pointed as those who did.

Why did everyone grind Mayhem tokens with no guarantee you would get a vendor pull?
Why is that decision MA's fault?

 

[Mike Kaffeslukarn Morazi]

Why did everyone grind Mayhem tokens with no guarantee you would get a vendor pull? Why is that decision MA's fault?

They will get their pulls. Trust me.

 

[Creo]

They will get their pulls. Trust me.

At what cost? The ingame economy, lower-mid level players, material markups?

 

[PreyNaika]

Ah hey i do have a idea


Maybe its just time to remove the vendor and mayhem together

Maybe, but just maybe its a good idea to have items actualy drop from World loot and not from a vendor in Form of tokens

Just saying

 

[Creo]

Ah hey i do have a idea


Maybe its just time to remove the vendor and mayhem together

Maybe, but just maybe its a good idea to have items actualy drop from World loot and not from a vendor in Form of tokens

Just saying

I still think it would be better to have the (L) Blueprints drop and have them crafted for the benefits to markup and the economy.

But yea, Mayhems gotta go. They are a poison to the game.

 

[Mike Kaffeslukarn Morazi]

At what cost? The ingame economy, lower-mid level players, material markups?

The cost is an unavoidable, continued de-valuation of items.

 

[Farmer Smurf]

DID I ever tell everyone how much I hate instances?! It's the bane of a persistent universe. Why even bother simulation of persistence if you gotta have instances. Instances are stupid and immersion breaking. PLEASE stop making instances. Remove them altogether. Bones has some great ideas here. Please take our advices!
PS I want people to tell MA how much instances ruin the game... I hate instances! Say it with me! We Hate Instances!

instances are great tho, they allow you to play with out being bothered by people. a very nice break in a persistent world.

 

[Creo]

The cost is an unavoidable, continued de-valuation of items.

Why is MindArk on the hook for decisions that players made? I don't get that.

There are no guarantees in this game. Did everyone think Mayhems would go on forever?

Did WoF go on forever or the old style of Mayhems?

This is the equivalent of a 'bail-out' of the players who took a risk and spent vast quantities of money
into Mayhem's when they knew full well the odds of them getting a decent pull was extremely low.

Just so they can take the position they are now.

 

[Creo]

instances are great tho, they allow you to play with out being bothered by people. a very nice break in a persistent world.

Instances are a botters heaven. Also, instances cost additional server resources that could be better utilized elsewhere.

If you want to grind without being bothered by people you need to get off Calypso.

 

[jetsina]

Both parties(MA and playerbase) should be satisfied which is not the case here.

The playerbase is not one party - and when behaviour splits, it's maybe unlikely that MA can satisfy all within that playerbase.
It's not just a case of aiming for win:win, it's aiming for win:win:win:win, if any lose in the mix results in unsustainability of the platform.
We now have playerbase categories, in no particular order, not even alphabetically, of botters, participants in mayhems, non-participants in them, good UL stuff owners, ubers, noobs, and various more.
Even though the current predicament is more of MA's making due to their designs and operation of the platform, the players have been known to be 'somewhat egoistic' in the paths they have chosen, instead of a longer-term win:win path.
Thus, although MA should not be listening to a largish portion of the playerbase, it is this portion that now holds quite a lot of power in the field of turnovers, which MA itself needs for viability.
I don't bot, don't take part in mayhems for ks of tokens, don't open boxes. To make sensible suggestions in the here and now I need to consider my suggestions carefully with regard to these too. Whether MA now has to pacify some or all groups of these is problematic, but exists.

I do think MA can develop areas of the game to be more in line with a win:win styles of thinking, whilst not immediately chopping off the other fields. But they cannot be too open about it either, tbh, unless they are completely honest about it. That's a bit of a dilemma.

 

[InKwL]

just because one thing exists doesnt mean that all the other things cant - variety is the key and offering new opportunities to grow and advance - not shutting down a huge part of an economy which is already in decline

Not to offend.

Not long ago, someone said something same.
Variety and competition.
It end with a RM, insane amount of tokens, UL items( more that was needed for actual playerbase) , even L exceptional items.
I have said back in that post.
Be very carefull what you wish.
Now in game are so much mod nano and also L mod nano.
Congratz, your wish is now here.
Now everyone is very upset because that happenen.
Items markup fall down.
Player trust go out of the range.

Before MA change something, they need to check the playerbase. To be able to have a way to not destroy the MU left.

Like I said in past.
Hunt is broken. Mining is one step away to be the same. If crafting is falling....game over.
Ubers cry after missing carrots. Miners cry in the same way. Crafters will be the next.

RM was for me a gold mine where I did very good.
The amount of profit was used to upgrade my setup for my high-end gear dream.


Players who cry the most and harder for cheap items...do they buy them right now? No
Carrots for everyone is the hunt for big and better MU.
Who understand that for better MU you need better gear and is willing to invest...may he have that.
To bring everything to nanocube price will not help at all.
Will destroy even more what is left right now here.

I also understand now better what I need to make.
I wish MA understand and see what is left from our playerbase and what they need to make until UE5 is here and hope the playerbase will increase x 100 times.

In the end I will say also my wish here like others.

Dear MA, please move all the mining resource 200-300 meters more deeper. Make the rares materials even more deeper.
Who want to have nice MU...to invest more in gear and skills.
Dont make the same mistake like in hunting.
Make hunting even for UL gear use mining and crafting items even more so there is a demand for everything.
All for nanocube is not the way.
Put even for Limited guns to be open the next tier, materials to burn there.

Everyone is searching for MU. Lets make MU great again.

Again, no offens to anyone. Even to my "special friend"

 

[Azgarot]

Why did everyone do that? Did MindArk guarantee that everyone would get a good pull from a vendor?

Still have not answered the question.

I would just like to point out that you keep using the word "everyone" often and the word "you" very broadly. I made another post in this thread earlier today pointing out exactly what they did promise and afterwards ended up pulling the rug under my feet and that of several other players. This is where my problem lies. I never felt that I was owed more than what I was promised and this I was promised, a Swine TWEN at 83% efficiency. (To clarify, by "I", I mean the playerbase as a whole in this case, not just me personally.) This is where trust was broken.

I have more Mayhem Tokens than most people will grind if EU kept this same format for the next 10 years, yet I couldn't give two sh**s whether or not MindArk removes the Mayhem vendor completely making my tokens obsolete. Or if they remove instances for that matter. I am not an entitled brat, I don't feel like I was tricked because I didn't pull a weapon or anything silly such as that. I merely believe that increasing the vendor prices all the time, introducing more and more UL equipment in a stagnant community is not good for the health of the economy. All I want is for them to sit down, consider the long term plan for the game, make the necessary changes and try to focus on fixing the economy in the long term by introducing the said changes.

I do agree with you that having only L items would make the economy alive and markups higher on average. Sadly, that would be a great logic for another game, a game that was just starting out. I am not sure that by making that move, MindArk wouldn't literally shoot themselves in the head (I didn't use "foot" on purpose, I am aware of the saying). Too much trust would be lost at that point and I am not sure that any company would be able to come back from that.

However, for the time being, I am confident that they must stop flooding the market, take a step back and seriously consider the way forward. Statistics is everything in today's world and they have all the statistics. There are many ways to skin a cat, I am sure there are many ways to fix the economy.

This idea that you and I agree on, regarding L items vs UL, is just the most obvious one and any unbiased person would surely agree on this. At the same time, this doesn't make us geniuses, this idea is a result of no more than superficial consideration of the problem. Having UL equipment in the game also has it's advantages. Removing UL would boost all aspects of the economy but it has its shortcomings. Missing a big carrot on a stick being the most obvious one. As much as that may sound bad, it's necessary for the whales.

However, I am confident, without a doubt, that a proper economist with the help of a good statistician could come up with a model, a solution that would make the economy thriving in the long run.

Lastly, like I said before, it's not my job to decide which direction Entropia should take in the future. I can only criticize what I see as obviously wrong and hope that it will be fixed for the sake of the game that I love. Not to mention that not only it's not my job but I don't have the necessary means to even begin to scratch the surface on that matter, they have all the statistics. The answer is there, not on this forum, it's in the statistics.

Edit: Typo.

 

[The Mind]

The same old question. Moving forward, should MA prio:
1. Buy UL > Grind UL > Sell UL > Gring UL > Sell UL > etc (be it tokens, be it drop, be it w/e the essence is the same).
2. Hunt/Mine > Craft > Hunt/Mine > Craft > etc.

First model failed Loot 1.0. Its failing loot 2.0. People blame MA each time it collapses. And each time they ask to bring it back. To "listen to the community".
I guess 2 times isnt enough.

 

[Creo]

I would just like to point out that you keep using the word "everyone" often and the word "you" very broadly. I made another post in this thread earlier today pointing out exactly what they did promise and afterwards ended up pulling the rug under my feet and that of several other players. This is where my problem lies. I never felt that I was owed more than what I was promised and this I was promised, a Swine TWEN at 83% efficiency. (To clarify, by "I", I mean the playerbase as a whole in this case, not just me personally.) This is where trust was broken.

I have more Mayhem Tokens than most people will grind if EU kept this same format for the next 10 years, yet I couldn't give two sh**s whether or not MindArk removes the Mayhem vendor completely making my tokens obsolete. Or if they remove instances for that matter. I am not an entitled brat, I don't feel like I was tricked because I didn't pull a weapon or anything silly such as that. I merely believe that increasing the vendor prices all the time, introducing more and more UL equipment in a stagnant community is not good for the health of the economy. All I want is for them to sit down, consider the long term plan for the game, make the necessary changes and try to focus on fixing the economy in the long term by introducing the said changes.

I do agree with you that having only L items would make the economy alive and markups higher on average. Sadly, that would be a great logic for another game, a game that was just starting out. I am not sure that by making that move, MindArk wouldn't literally shoot themselves in the head (I didn't use "foot" on purpose, I am aware of the saying). Too much trust would be lost at that point and I am not sure that any company would be able to come back from that.

However, for the time being, I am confident that they must stop flooding the market, take a step back and seriously consider the way forward. Statistics is everything in today's world and they have all the statistics. There are many ways to skin a cat, I am sure there are many ways to fix the economy.

This idea that you and I agree on, regarding L items vs UL, is just the most obvious one and any unbiased person would surely agree on this. At the same time, this doesn't make us geniuses, this idea is a result of no more than superficial consideration of the problem. Having UL equipment in the game also has it's advantages. Removing UL would boost all aspects of the economy but it has its shortcomings. Missing a big carrot on a stick being the most obvious one. As much as that may sound bad, it's necessary for the whales.

However, I am confident, without a doubt, that a proper economist with the help of a good statistician could come up with a model, a solution that would make the economy thriving in the long run.

Lastly, like I said before, it's not my job to decide which direction Entropia should take in the future. I can only criticize what I see as obviously wrong and hope that it will be fixed for the sake of the game that I love. Not to mention that not only it's not my job but I don't have the necessary means to even begin to scratch the surface on that matter, they have all the statistics. The answer is there, not on this forum, it's in the statistics.

Edit: Typo.

I didnt say get rid of UL. I said get rid of Tokens and Vendors in favor of world/crafting drops of (L) Blueprints for UL gear.

Any new Unlimited items should come into the game through crafting with (L) blueprints with very high prof/skill requirements,
low success rates with a significant amount of materials of different rarities from all planets.

Crafting UL gear should require materials from all planets and all professions in the game. All materials having MU as well as the (L) BP itself.

Each new UL item could require different materials which MindArk can set to assist with boosting
materials of low markup universe-wide for any given profession.

This is how you strike a balance between (L) weapons and UL weapons.