Steady mining

LeelooM

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How steady is mining for the moment ?

I would say very steady

Here are the first results of a zone I've been doing to test this WITHOUT amps

Red numbers are the cost - Green is TT return - Brown is after sales.

On the left side all TT numbers - on the right side with MU numbers

Tools I used
F-106 + 10 depth enh (@ 200%) / T-105 / ME-01
Every run = 100 Dual drops
Depth was between 746 and 1332
Better claims : 3 x 6 / 2 x 7 / 2 x 9 / 1 x 11
Globals : None



Here you can see that even my TT return / TT return + costs and after sales are all negative.
--------------------​

Tools I used
F-106 + 8 depth enh (@ 200%) / T-105 / ME-01
Every run = 100 Dual drops
Depth was between 633 and 1246
Better claims : 1 x 6 / 1 x 7 / 2 x 9
Globals : 1 x 13 / 1 x 14


Here you can see that even my TT return / TT return + costs and after sales are all positive.

Average return so far

--------------------​

Tools I used
F-106 + 6 depth enh[/U] (@ 200%) / T-105 / ME-01
Every run = 100 Dual drops
Depth was between 534 and 1236
Better claims : 3 x 7 / 2 x 9 / 1 x 10 / 1 x 11
Globals : None



Average return so far

 
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krazykat

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Interesting to see your detailed figures. I'm interested though in what average depth you get with the fully enhanced F-106 and how it compares with a (L) finder with similar average depth as far as costs are concerned.
 

ihazbackup

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Looking at the figures, it looks normal, even better than most miners are experiencing, I think

Did u get any globals from the runs?
 

LeelooM

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Looking at the figures, it looks normal, even better than most miners are experiencing, I think

Did u get any globals from the runs?
No globals yet and I do not expect them unamped to be honest, only after XXXX runs :p

I used to get over 100% TT return almost all the time but after the patch end sep ... that changed a lot

Will see how the next runs go, then I prolly switch to only 6 depth enh to compare, and I might do a few amped lvl 2 runs also

EDIT : When using amps (even low amps) I'll prolly get lower TT return. Losses come mostly from ores since HR dropped from 35-40 to 30. Amped this will cost more cause you get more NRF, but will see.
 

LeelooM

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Interesting to see your detailed figures. I'm interested though in what average depth you get with the fully enhanced F-106 and how it compares with a (L) finder with similar average depth as far as costs are concerned.
Depth with 10 depth enh in those runs was between 746 and 1332
 

Kerham

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You mean 150 drops / run, I think.
 

Kerham

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Damn, my bad, at first read I saw "no amp, no dual" :eyecrazy:
 

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Depth with 10 depth enh in those runs was between 746 and 1332
I make that an average about 1040 which is more than any un-enhanced finder presently available. The best that I can manage is Terramaster 6 with un-enhanced average of 885.

I was also interested in your comment about tt returns falling off after the September VU. I used to get 100+% tt return regularly, but I noticed a decline from the beginning of September and I now rarely get any claim bigger than a 5 or 6. Globals are rare, I had just 1 in September and 2 so far this month. Previously, I was getting 6 or 7 a month or more. I mine unamped as well.
 

Kerham

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Interesting to see your detailed figures. I'm interested though in what average depth you get with the fully enhanced F-106 and how it compares with a (L) finder with similar average depth as far as costs are concerned.
Avg depth is 1k (I mean what is shown on the finder, 1014 smth). L with this would mean Terra 8 and vrx 3k, maxed at lvl 60, 61 resp. The biggest factor of difference is the enhancer breakrate. Per this sample, enhancers alone bring a cost of 7%. Would basically need 5 ingots of redulite to compensate that cost alone. Which in 750 drops, dunno, depends. One could rightfully argue that half of enhancers break rate is due to enmatter dropping, whereas enmatters' impact in overall tt is only 33%, and MU is up to Leeloo to judge if 250 peds of enmatter can bring in 27ish MU just to pay for their own enhancing.

There are a few branches in making this comparison:

- wether you have or not the skills to use said L
- wether enhancer breakrate is directly proportional to double/triple drop (e.g. 2x resp 3x)
- wether enhancer breakrate is directly proportional to amplification
- wether enhancer breakrate is the same for ores and enmatter (somehow a consequence of the above, maybe)
- finally, level of amplification, which should dilute enhancers' impact, pending above considerations

In the most conservative estimation, L should be marginally cheaper, but you need the skill. I would personally think that ignoring bankroll size and ignoring level of skill, F106 fully enhanced or L are +-equal choices, with F106 the more flexible one, but nomatter the choice between them, what is fundamental is to pick an appropiate area and target set of resources/depth. This is far more important than a variation of +-2% in costs.
 

LeelooM

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I make that an average about 1040 which is more than any un-enhanced finder presently available. The best that I can manage is Terramaster 6 with un-enhanced average of 885.

I was also interested in your comment about tt returns falling off after the September VU. I used to get 100+% tt return regularly, but I noticed a decline from the beginning of September and I now rarely get any claim bigger than a 5 or 6. Globals are rare, I had just 1 in September and 2 so far this month. Previously, I was getting 6 or 7 a month or more. I mine unamped as well.
Hiya Cassandra :)

I noticed the same thing indeed. My guess is they dropped the HR (ores), make it harder to break even + resources will go up (already happening) and when you do get a swirls unamped, it will be bigger than what we where used to.

If you check mining hof list daily, you will see most lower hofs are between 150-200 ped, where before it was even possible to get a hof sometime from 50-100 ped.

For me the swirls I get are extra and I do not count on them, prior is to mine without a loss again as I do now if I would sell the resources I'm mining now. Just waiting for those to go up and I'll adjust my sales list (connected to my mining sheets). Once I found a way to make profit after sales, I might try amped mining again.

As for the lower multipliers, I mostly get ample (9) but also now and then 6-7-11 so far. That's how I got those 100%+ runs.
 

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Hiya Cassandra :)

I noticed the same thing indeed. My guess is they dropped the HR (ores), make it harder to break even + resources will go up (already happening) and when you do get a swirls unamped, it will be bigger than what we where used to.

If you check mining hof list daily, you will see most lower hofs are between 150-200 ped, where before it was even possible to get a hof sometime from 50-100 ped.

For me the swirls I get are extra and I do not count on them, prior is to mine without a loss again as I do now if I would sell the resources I'm mining now. Just waiting for those to go up and I'll adjust my sales list (connected to my mining sheets). Once I found a way to make profit after sales, I might try amped mining again.

As for the lower multipliers, I mostly get ample (9) but also now and then 6-7-11 so far. That's how I got those 100%+ runs.
Yes, I don't rely on the swirlies to profit, no one can. But I used to get more of the lower multipliers (9+) than I do now. Also I've noticed that my hit rate has been poor, and I mean under 30%, much more often than before September. I also remember that if you could get over 27% hit rate, you could be reasonably sure of at least breaking even on the run. But that was a long time ago, I just mention that to illustrate that average returns have been declining for a long time. Its just suddenly got a lot worse.
 

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Good details, but needs bigger sample to get better overview. And I agree with what others had regarding the change. Had TT profit here too also on some areas. it is kinda funny, when hunters invest 100k's for best items and yet don't get TT profit, while the poor miner with L can beat the best invested hunter :wise:

Mining ftw
 

LeelooM

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Another 5 runs, same place but this time with only 8 depth enh

Tools I used
F-106 + 8 depth enh (@ 200%) / T-105 / ME-01
Every run = 100 Dual drops
Depth was between 633 and 1246
Better claims : 1 x 6 / 1 x 7 / 2 x 9
Globals : 1 x 13 / 1 x 14


Here you can see that even my TT return / TT return + costs and after sales are all positive.

As in my next runs I'll only be using 6 depth enhancers to cut even more in the costs.

!!! Fun !!!
 
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ihazbackup

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I have this lingering doubt that the result you posted has more to do with your avatar's potential return than just simply changing enh

What I wanted to say is, that your global is probably more to the fact that you deserve it after incurring tt loss from the first 5 runs you posted (the one with 87% tt return). With 101% tt return you have from the last 5 runs, it brings you back to 94% average tt return. I also suspect that if you keep using 10 depth enhancers on your last 5 runs, you MIGHT get even bigger tt return, just because the system intended to bring you back to the average

Nevertheless, it's a good result. You really have it better than most miners I've heard from.
 

LeelooM

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I have this lingering doubt that the result you posted has more to do with your avatar's potential return than just simply changing enh

What I wanted to say is, that your global is probably more to the fact that you deserve it after incurring tt loss from the first 5 runs you posted (the one with 87% tt return). With 101% tt return you have from the last 5 runs, it brings you back to 94% average tt return. I also suspect that if you keep using 10 depth enhancers on your last 5 runs, you MIGHT get even bigger tt return, just because the system intended to bring you back to the average

Nevertheless, it's a good result. You really have it better than most miners I've heard from.
Thank you :)

As the normal TT return has dropped significant now, I think its more important to cut on costs to make more profit and keep mining.

Plan is to keep doing this with 6 - 4 - 2 - 0 depth enh and check results.

Also good to know is that I got the same amount redu with less costs.

This might also be good to compare with other finders like Terra about the costs I think.

EDIT : TX for giving me that idea Konrad :) added the average return also now
 
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krazykat

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For what its worth, my average tt return over the last 14 weeks is 102.73% That's thanks to the first 5 weeks when the return was over 100% each week. Its been declining ever since. The average over the last 9 weeks is 94.51% which is comparable with Leeloo's results. (F-105, no amp, no enhancers)
 

LeelooM

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Average return so far

 

LeelooM

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Avg depth is 1k (I mean what is shown on the finder, 1014 smth). L with this would mean Terra 8 and vrx 3k, maxed at lvl 60, 61 resp. The biggest factor of difference is the enhancer breakrate. Per this sample, enhancers alone bring a cost of 7%. Would basically need 5 ingots of redulite to compensate that cost alone. Which in 750 drops, dunno, depends. One could rightfully argue that half of enhancers break rate is due to enmatter dropping, whereas enmatters' impact in overall tt is only 33%, and MU is up to Leeloo to judge if 250 peds of enmatter can bring in 27ish MU just to pay for their own enhancing.

There are a few branches in making this comparison:

- wether you have or not the skills to use said L
- wether enhancer breakrate is directly proportional to double/triple drop (e.g. 2x resp 3x)
- wether enhancer breakrate is directly proportional to amplification
- wether enhancer breakrate is the same for ores and enmatter (somehow a consequence of the above, maybe)
- finally, level of amplification, which should dilute enhancers' impact, pending above considerations

In the most conservative estimation, L should be marginally cheaper, but you need the skill. I would personally think that ignoring bankroll size and ignoring level of skill, F106 fully enhanced or L are +-equal choices, with F106 the more flexible one, but nomatter the choice between them, what is fundamental is to pick an appropiate area and target set of resources/depth. This is far more important than a variation of +-2% in costs.
Need to agree on all of this.

Few things I want to add here is the fact that (for redu) it doesn't make any difference if I use 8 or 10 depth enh.

Why use 10 depth enh then? The faster/deeper I go in minus TT, the faster/higher multiplier will be generated. But this does not mean I would make profit ^^ When using amps this might change :) Unamped using 10 depth enh is almost not possible to over win cause the base costs compared with the smaller claims ....

Average breakrate when using 10 depth enhancers : 2 for enm / 100 drops - 4 for ores / 100 drops - 2 for trea / 100 drops and yes that last 2 for treasure was a surprise for me also. Doing triples on ark gives me a average brake rate of 8

As what resources I'm getting with different amount of depth enh ... the less I use, the more shitty resources I'm getting :p

To the question if using amps gives a different break rate so far I need to say no, but we will see that in the next runs after I'm done with the no amp runs :)

It also would be nice to see other miners show what their costs are with L finders (now I'm thinking about TM's) to compare the costs and later when doing amp 2 runs even with pre-amped finders :)
 

krazykat

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The best that I could use is the ROCTEC M1-lF (maxed at 40 Prosp.) which I think is 900 average. But I'll keep plodding on with my F-105 which is good enough for the Frakite on Ark :)
 

LeelooM

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The best that I could use is the ROCTEC M1-lF (maxed at 40 Prosp.) which I think is 900 average. But I'll keep plodding on with my F-105 which is good enough for the Frakite on Ark :)
If you are going for profit, you do not have to go that deep mostly, only if you are going for rare ores you have to go deeper but watch out for the costs.

For frakite you do not need to go really deep, 600/800 average depth is more than enough as I can remember.

It will all be cleared up when I'm doing more testing in the same zone so you can compare results.
 

LeelooM

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Tools I used
F-106 + 6 depth enh (@ 200%) / T-105 / ME-01
Every run = 100 Dual drops
Depth was between 534 and 1236
Better claims : 3 x 7 / 2 x 9 / 1 x 10 / 1 x 11
Globals : None


Average return so far


PS : On the first page you can compare all the runs
 
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LeelooM

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Cause I'm doing this over and over again on the same spots (to have the perfect consistency factor), I'll stop after this last round cause I'm getting overstocked in many things, and getting short in other resources.

What I wanted to proof (and see with my own eyes) is that TT return in mining is almost constant 80-90% TT return after the patch in september 2019 (without amp)
Agree that it was more before the patch (almost 100% most of the time)
As soon as my numbers (TT return) goes in minus or in other words go in the red ... I get a lot of multipliers/globals/hof that brings me back in positive numbers again. This does NOT count if you are mining in a taxed area, that % of TT return is the miner loosing.

This does not mean I'm in green numbers in TT return so it is always important to keep mining with the lowest cost factor, depending the resources you are looking for.

Your profit comes from at what % you will sell your resources, that's fully up to you !!!

So imo good job MA :)

Happy mining all !!!
 
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