Suggestion: Stop the skill devaluation

Angel O2 Mercer

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I would like to address the following problems:

  1. Players chipping out systematically to stay in a certain event category. Sometimes giving away their skills for free or even paying someone just to take them.
  2. The generalized devaluation of avatar skills as a whole, in my opinion heavily related to issue #1.
  3. The lack of reward/objectives past certain level.

Is this how the game is supposed to work?

Keep it civil please, thanks.

PS: I'm not directly affected, I just think there is a serious problem. I also don't have a magical solution that will fix everything, maybe we can find one together :)
 

Captain Jack

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I do not understand the purpose of this thread.

It is listed under "suggestions", implying that it is something the developers should read to implement into the game - yet it offers no suggestion whatsoever. It seems to be more of an invitation to discussion, which would be more appropriately placed under the "skills" thread.

Notwithstanding, this is a topic which has been discussed at length in various other threads and therefor without the presentation of a new solution I do not understand why you bring it up here.
 

Angel O2 Mercer

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I do not understand the purpose of this thread.

It is listed under "suggestions", implying that it is something the developers should read to implement into the game - yet it offers no suggestion whatsoever. It seems to be more of an invitation to discussion, which would be more appropriately placed under the "skills" thread.

Notwithstanding, this is a topic which has been discussed at length in various other threads and therefor without the presentation of a new solution I do not understand why you bring it up here.
Hmmm, well. I honestly didn't know where to put it, in my mind it IS a suggestion/wish (to stop the skill devaluation) and I didn't find any rule that suggestion threads had to be a precise and fully functional proposal.

I'll try to search better for previous discussions, feel free to link them if you want.

:dunce:
 

Darkaruki

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I think new high level content that involves level-gated areas need to be introduced. I'd like to see this type of content released in the future.
 

fred5283

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I think new high level content that involves level-gated areas need to be introduced. I'd like to see this type of content released in the future.
Higher the level, higher the tt return and items with mu
That may fix things
 

eragon

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I think new high level content that involves level-gated areas need to be introduced. I'd like to see this type of content released in the future.

I like that idea. But please include lvl restricted areas that are possible to enjoy in mid range gear.
Something like: Minimum dmg profession 75, but can be enjoyed with viceroy and a 50DPS weapon.
 

Alina

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Higher the level, higher the tt return and items with mu
That may fix things
i like his idea , will be fun to have areas with level required , like when they added Amethera was min level 30 to join
 

jambon

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It's supply and demand... The more players that come and go into eu the more skills are there to be sold.

The only way skills are ever destroyed is in the small fee when chipping out.

Imo the problem here is actuslly two things... 1 is ESIx and their markup. 2 is the lack of ability to mass sell common skills without ESIs
 

Angel O2 Mercer

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Categorization of a lot more content than just events sounds very nice, I like the idea a lot.

Also the level requirement on armors (as was originally planned).
 

Haruto Rat

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The only way skills are ever destroyed is in the small fee when chipping out.
Well, let's destroy more skills then.

How about an attachment/ring/whatever that gives you slightly better return, but instead of gaining skills you're losing the same amount? Some folks would sure use it. (Others wouldn't but then, no one would be forced to)
 

Haruto Rat

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Or some cool-looking but impractical swag that can be bought by giving up skills. For example a cool hat (not tradable) that you can acquire for 100 PED worth of Handgun.
 

slither

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I skilled for years to use maddox IV & ML-35, then they turn them into SIB weapons :mad:
 

Granny Rowan

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I am sure many will argue with me, but imo skills have become devalued because of all the buffs MA introduced. People now skill more than ever, according to the size of their ped card. High value rings, high tier pets, and a constant flow of pills that puts the average pharmacy to shame.

That said MA also needs to realise that the game is no longer new, our skills have in many cases outstripped the in game challenges, or at least narrowed to give little choice for progress. We need higher level mobs for those that still wish to grind, some more interesting and challenging mission chains, (possibly with entry level requirements)
Year on year we have seen MA change the game to make it more attractive to newcomers, to encourage new player retention (keyboard setting BS for instance). Yet they seem willing to ignore even discourage the experienced player

The older player may not be in that first flush of fast depo, but they sure as hell have a lot invested in game in skills as well as gear, properties etc If a new player leaves MA loses almost nothing, if an old hand quits they stand to lose thousands. Do the Math MA, show your most faithful customers respect and give us reasons to stay should we ever become 'uber'.

Oh and btw can we have space skills that mean something in real terms ..anything..anything at all...
and while you are about it can we have a skill curve similar to say hunting. At level 75-80 my hunt skills still rise noticeably week on week, by level 40 captaincy it is near impossible to skill in any meaningful time frame and at level 50 2 hours solid piloting for a repair skill run gains me maybe 0.02% of a level, if I hunt at same time I may increase that to 0.03%, at this rate I may see the next level in say 10k hours.. OMG I better hope I can come back in the afterlife and still play...how is that deemed reasonable ?
yet my captaincy does increase..slowly but surely.. how? from side skilling from planet hunting Go Figure !!

As for the events if they want to stop chipping out (though I doubt they do) easy, entry level is your average for last 3/6/12 months in the specified skill (average to be shown on skill chart so we can monitor progress). Boy can you imagine the screams? Personally I think the solution is simpler, instead of three or four categories make it 6 or 8, so the skill range for each is narrower and therefore the lower end players are less disadvantaged, thereby reducing the need to chip down a level
 

Xen

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I think new high level content that involves level-gated areas need to be introduced. I'd like to see this type of content released in the future.
I like this idea. There are many things they could do.
 

NoBion

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Many people here have been in EU through the same period as me, i started late 2003. I never became uber skilled, i dislike grinding too much to ever hardcore hunting in EU, but i did enjoy PVP and social aspect a lot, mixed with a bit of hunting/mining now and then.

What i have experienced like everyone else is the fact, that Entropia Universe unfortunatly is nothing else today, than a pretty interface for random number generation and maximum grinding. The game is all over the place when it comes to its art and design. It used to be strange and "alien", at that time we only had calypso, and while it was not big, it had character, and tons of it. The gear you managed to obtain or buy was YOURS, nothing was limited, if you had obtained a item through saving and hard work, you really did manage to own something everyone else had to work for to equally posses.

Through the process of new graphic engines, new planets and total overhaul, the game turned away from its core strengths which was immersion of being on a hostile, strange planet with most often an ambition to reach the status and level of the ubers you saw in town.

The world of Entropia today is artisticly a big miss or hit, but ultimo i think that there's very few areas that come close to immerse like the PE days, also combat have become worse, with a focus on eating pills owning pet/rings to get a invisible buff, the combat is as lazy as ever, everything is more automated than its ever been. and people are now avoiding like the plague to become skilled and "uber" because the game only have 1 goal anymore, that is to prepare your avatar for event participation, there's no adventure back because Mindark lost focus many years ago.

Entropia started out to be a innovative real economy adventure, where people seek fame and fortune, to be the best and most skilled, to own a grand armor and gun, in a world that was mysterious and strange. dang, you even had to aim yourself if you wanted to make dmg!

Today its just a grindy sit & wait for events game. And dont grind too much, you might end up with skills you dreamed to get when the game was truly something.

I hope my whining is tolerable
 

Xavier_Jr

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It seems to me that before, when an avatar did not enter for a long time and was expelled, Mindark paid to player owner of that avatar for the tt value of his things and skills. But now Mindark does not recognize the tt value of the skills. Then the only way to revalue skills would be to sell ESI to tt value trough TT machines. Thats could permit a real commerce of skills and arise their value.
 

Miles

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I personally like being able to skill more easily. As a long time player who started after the big skill nerf, and at the birth of (L), skilling was painfully slow on my modest budget. Now, between mission rewards, some pills, and the current loot setup, I am able to make significant progress, which benefits me directly.

The uber avatars from when I started are still as out-of-reach as they ever were, while I'm now hunting mobs that used to be for high level players. That's progress for me, and for them. I see other avatars speed past me, with more time and money than I have, and that is also cool.

The reason skills are devalued is they represent the main asset of most avatars - so if a player wants to get something back when they quit, or monetize their play, skills are about the only value. With a game as old as this one, the 10% loss on extraction is not the biggest drain, but the skills left on abandoned avatars. It is too easy to sell skills as small quantities, while too hard to sell the massive amount avatars have accumulated over the years.

I think the cost to chip out skills should be higher, to make that less a focus of play, but formalize bulk skill transfers (not full Avatar transfers) so retiring players can more easily get some payback, while ambitious newcomers can more easily boost their avatars.

You could say that would make it easier for players to quit, but I'd argue that keeping unhappy players lingering while they try to chip out does more harm that good.

Peace, Miles
 

Xanato Xan Kaso

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How many of you players with tons of bulk common skills would gladly just TT a majority of it and forgo extracting with an esi and reselling? I have looked at the math of the common skills such as rifles, pistols, blp/laser tech, etc. and after accounting for cost of ESI and the 10% removal cost, you are basically getting 100-150% for the skill or sometimes even less. ESI's are a very convoluted way to sell something that is already yours to sell. Its a very expensive barrier to exit the game, and was probably designed this way to prevent players from selling their skills to give them a reason to return after they quit. How many people have quit the game but didnt sell their skills only to return a year later? How many of those players do you think would have returned if they were able to completely cash out skills and all and have nothing left to return to?


At the end of the day Mindark doesn't want you selling your skills.

But just to restate my question so its easy to read and not hidden in a wall of text, How many of you players with tons of bulk common skills would gladly just TT a majority of it and forgo extracting with an esi and reselling?
 

Xen

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How many of you players with tons of bulk common skills would gladly just TT a majority of it and forgo extracting with an esi and reselling? I have looked at the math of the common skills such as rifles, pistols, blp/laser tech, etc. and after accounting for cost of ESI and the 10% removal cost, you are basically getting 100-150% for the skill or sometimes even less. ESI's are a very convoluted way to sell something that is already yours to sell. Its a very expensive barrier to exit the game, and was probably designed this way to prevent players from selling their skills to give them a reason to return after they quit. How many people have quit the game but didnt sell their skills only to return a year later? How many of those players do you think would have returned if they were able to completely cash out skills and all and have nothing left to return to?


At the end of the day Mindark doesn't want you selling your skills.

But just to restate my question so its easy to read and not hidden in a wall of text, How many of you players with tons of bulk common skills would gladly just TT a majority of it and forgo extracting with an esi and reselling?
Are you suggesting we should be able to tt skills? If so, I would say no. The point of this thread is to make skill gain more valuable, not make it easier for players to stay in a certain category because they have a dominant weapon.
 

GoNi

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Higher the level, higher the tt return and items with mu
That may fix things
We already have that!

High Looter skills, higher TT return

Higher Level mobs, higher chance to loot ESIs (MU)

I think new high level content that involves level-gated areas need to be introduced. I'd like to see this type of content released in the future.
Level gate areas would be nice, but thats not all.

I would like to see is gear with higher level requirements past LVL100 up to LVL300 or even more.
It should be easy for MA to check what is highest levels players ingame, and then design some special event reward weapons for cat 10 players that fits to their levels.
On top of that it would be nice to see Cats overworked.
Cat 10 should be somewhere around LVL150+, Cat 9 would fill the LVL100-150 area and then the lower levels adjusted.
Its a simple balancing thing.

Well some people would still chip out to stay in a lower cat, but there would be more reason to keep skills to be able to use the higher level gear and the chance to fight for that.


It's supply and demand... The more players that come and go into eu the more skills are there to be sold.

The only way skills are ever destroyed is in the small fee when chipping out.

Imo the problem here is actuslly two things... 1 is ESIx and their markup. 2 is the lack of ability to mass sell common skills without ESIs
Well more ESIs would devalue to ESIs itselfs and therfor devalue the skills too.

An optiion to mass sell skills without ESI would also devalue the skills even more.
 

Legends

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I think new high level content that involves level-gated areas need to be introduced. I'd like to see this type of content released in the future.
Yes, I would also like to see that type of content.

I created a thread recently where I proposed the introduction of Raid instances (Group PvE aka Raids)

In there I briefly mentioned (see point #2) that 'botting' could effectively be defeated by giving skill rewards to the Raiders after successfully completing a Raid, which would be level-gated, like you proposed. What I didn't say, is that once this was implemented, Iron missions could be removed or drastically reduced, Raids becoming the main source of bonus skills in game.

Right now, skilling buffs and Iron Mission rewards is flooding the game with hunting skills and the value is just going to keep dropping until extracting skills is an expense and not a payout and that's creating problems for some players.
 

Evey

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I think new high level content that involves level-gated areas need to be introduced. I'd like to see this type of content released in the future.
This one would be nice plus a different mechanism for events preventing people to chip out in order to remain in a lower category. The event system should recognize all your skills you ever had, even the chipped out ones.

- you quit the game and fully chipped out from lvl 150 but you came back and want to do events? bad luck, your cat is cat 10;
- you chipped out little by little in order to keep using your gun but stay in the same cat for 10 years? bad luck, your cat is cat 10 (or whatever category all the skills u ever had would place you in);
 

mastermesh

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new, high level content would be nice, but to address the issue also, get rid of esi in loot and replace it with something better while putting them in Trade Terminal. Fixes a couple of problems - allows those that do want to move up or down in skill levels the ability to do so without hassle, also allows those that are 'stuck' in game since they don't want to or cannot afford to deposit to chip out for good the ability to do so. Folks are always saying 'well why are you still here' to anyone with any small bit of negativity. Add the esi to the trade terminals and they won't have to be any more.

Those with esi in inventory will of course complain about this idea, but things evolve over time. They'd get over it, just like folks with 30 dollar markup christmas trees did when they all dropped in xmas loot, folks with rare pink rabbits did when they dropped in Easter baskets, etc.

Could of course just make it go the other way... drop esi in loot instead of shrapnel for a few months... or change it so esi has a timer on it. Don't use it in x amount of hours and it goes back in to loot pool.
 

Fiona Simmons

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As long the current structure of mayhem rewards and entry limitations exist in that state i can't think of a way to prevent people from chipping out and giving away free skills or even pay someone to take them.

Maybe mindark should remove skillgain for looter skills and split and attach the composion that make up this skill to 100% on most other skills so getting this skill up is only possible if you have a lot of other skills in high range. This would also benefit the wish of the community that higher skills should grant more eco and promote cross skilling and not chipping out if you here for the eco in the long run. People who only participate in mayhems and nothing else of course couln't care less so this idea is not perfect.

In the end if mindark dont want this they need to rethink how their mayhems work and make it less rewarding to stay in a certain category like maybe handing out special mayhem armor and gun sets that only work in the instance for lower tiers and prohibit the use of other weapons for low and mid tier categories while the high tier ones remain
the way they are now.

Or we just accept that some skills have no value anymore but you need to pay people to take them from you and move on. :smoke:
 

Alukat123

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i've done 90% crafting - 10% hunting , my hunting skills are almost twice as high as my crafting skills...
The skill gain in hunting is way too fast.
 

Evey

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new, high level content would be nice, but to address the issue also, get rid of esi in loot and replace it with something better while putting them in Trade Terminal. Fixes a couple of problems - allows those that do want to move up or down in skill levels the ability to do so without hassle, also allows those that are 'stuck' in game since they don't want to or cannot afford to deposit to chip out for good the ability to do so. Folks are always saying 'well why are you still here' to anyone with any small bit of negativity. Add the esi to the trade terminals and they won't have to be any more.

Those with esi in inventory will of course complain about this idea, but things evolve over time. They'd get over it, just like folks with 30 dollar markup christmas trees did when they all dropped in xmas loot, folks with rare pink rabbits did when they dropped in Easter baskets, etc.

Could of course just make it go the other way... drop esi in loot instead of shrapnel for a few months... or change it so esi has a timer on it. Don't use it in x amount of hours and it goes back in to loot pool.
You hunt few punies a year, please stop talking about ESI in loot. Ever looted one? You have no clue how these things work, stick to your field of activity, thanks!
 

krogfan

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You hunt few punies a year, please stop talking about ESI in loot. Ever looted one? You have no clue how these things work, stick to your field of activity, thanks!
Isnt the ESIs the value of the skills atm, if those were TT wed have a true value of the skill and a shorter way to enter for beginners since the total cost for skills would be much lower.

That way it would be more fair for all and easier to exit for those with alot of skills and easier to start the game and the value would be in the skill only and not to the lucky looter of the ESI.

Sorry for interrupting but this is sticking to my own field of activity since Id happily sell 100k+ TT of skills :)

//Linzey
 
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