sweat at 3ped - good or bad?

[py08jl]

OT-104 is ORE<! Transformer, m'kay? ^^ It can't refine Enmatter, so wrong calculations.

its a typo,
MT-104 and OT-104 decays the same, nothing wrong with calculation.

 

[James Fox]

Ah, MT-104 is ok then.

 

[ChairmanEdgewise]

Goooooooooood! Cheap ME for me.

 

[LeWolf86]

Wouldn't surprise me if NBK doesn't already do this (HW too busy building 500k sub-socs) and I myself have only been in two societies in EU, but both those societies catered to noobs by way of higher skilled members buying lower skilled members stuff at MU and Vice Versa. Not all stuff obviously, just stuff that was needed. This included sweat, which general consensus dictated we were to buy from members for at least 0.5 and our leader bought for 0.7 and as far as I'm aware, that soc still works in a similar fashion.
One of those soc's even had dedicated traders who we'd all sell the TT junk to at half MU. Win/Win we get more than TT, the traders get profit.
The benefit of this for our soc's was that new members and old members alike, were able to help each other out and the flow on effect of this enriched the entire society.
You don't need to create a society specifically for this purpose (though I'm kinda surprised HW hasn't rofl) as a lot of societies already do it.



ps: not taking a dig at you Leo... just HW

Hardwrath tried to implement a system like this.... when I was first in NBK.... it wasn't win/win though from trader prospective.... essentially worked out to... buy amps from our crafters at higher then my outside soc source.... and sell materials to our crafters for sometimes lower then order, or lower then can get else where.... It was a system that catered to the crafters IMO..... as for a trader it wasn't great.... thats when I butted heads to HW because I got in trouble for buying amps from a outside source and undercutting our own CND amp sellers... I would sell better prices, and give our miners amps @ cost I bought them, and then they would sell me materials for same price as other people maybe 1% lower for my benefit of lost profit on amps . Was great for a while.... but upset to many amp crafters...


Anyways... the system your talking about sounds like it could work, but people are always motivated by getting a deal.... the only issue I have with this is that... people are paying more then market value of sweat.... like economically it doesn't make sense to pay .5/1k with current ME price.... itd be like paying 175%~ more then ay products market value.... its just dumb IMO.... sure it supports noobs.... but it always supports people who dont want to pay... or it might also support non noobs who find these buyers first.

 

[therealjjj77]

There are three theories I have come up with for why sweat would see a drop in price.

1) a change in the sweat drop rate, i.e. dropping off killing monsters too now; this would result in an increased supply and thus a lower price.

2) most mindforce applications no longer using sweat as a component, instead they now use synthetic mind essence; this decreased demand for sweat results in a lower price

3) the overall economy in PE seeing less deposits then when sweat was priced higher, resulting in more sweat harvesters per depositor. This increased supply in sweat while decrease in demand would have the net effect of lowering the price of sweat.

 

[Reiken]

I'm a new player, kinda. Used to play before the game got Cry Engine.. Started again because I was bored... I seem to remember 1k of sweat going for around 10 ped maybe a little lower. Now I see some people saying it goes for 5 but most everyone that wants to sell wants me to sell for 3.5 and under.

I find this ridiculous because... Well... If you've ever gathered sweat you knwo it takes a lot of time to gather sweat. and since the profit isn't really enough to start getting into other parts of the game, the fun ones or profitable ones.

I dunno.. Maybe they should hard cap sweat prices at 5k? I mean.. a gun is like 3.5 ped but you still need to buy the ammo. If you wana get into mining... That's pricey to get into... I don't know what else is available to newbies... Which is why I need a mentor. =D

 

[LeWolf86]

I'm a new player, kinda. Used to play before the game got Cry Engine.. Started again because I was bored... I seem to remember 1k of sweat going for around 10 ped maybe a little lower. Now I see some people saying it goes for 5 but most everyone that wants to sell wants me to sell for 3.5 and under.

I find this ridiculous because... Well... If you've ever gathered sweat you knwo it takes a lot of time to gather sweat. and since the profit isn't really enough to start getting into other parts of the game, the fun ones or profitable ones.

I dunno.. Maybe they should hard cap sweat prices at 5k? I mean.. a gun is like 3.5 ped but you still need to buy the ammo. If you wana get into mining... That's pricey to get into... I don't know what else is available to newbies... Which is why I need a mentor. =D

I remember when Ore Amps could be crafted with decent odds of profiting due to markup.... to bad so many people click them now and compete.... and well price dropped a lot... Many people sell amps only slightly higher then the cost of residue to fill them up.... and if 90% TT return is standard then they are crafting at a loss in long run....

Well things change....

Most people who pay to play or deposit... dont feel that sweat should be immune to competition and the system of over supply.... problem with sweat is that its usages are actually far less then before..... To my knowledge they are only used for teleport chips... before VU10 at least they were used for some people who enjoyed expensive healing and killing using ME..... also with vehicles out I rather drive then teleport... much more fun .

Anyways sweat is a dead system.... smart players will look for other avenues to profit.... sweat is not the way to go.

 

[Few Scars]

I still pay the sweaters 5 ped per 1000. I think they deserve at lest 5ped. So every now and then I wonder down to sweat camp and help out.
If sweat gets any cheaper there will be no incentive to sweat at all

Cheers
Bjorn

 

[Jennson]

I'm a new player, kinda. Used to play before the game got Cry Engine.. Started again because I was bored... I seem to remember 1k of sweat going for around 10 ped maybe a little lower. Now I see some people saying it goes for 5 but most everyone that wants to sell wants me to sell for 3.5 and under.

I find this ridiculous because... Well... If you've ever gathered sweat you knwo it takes a lot of time to gather sweat. and since the profit isn't really enough to start getting into other parts of the game, the fun ones or profitable ones.

I dunno.. Maybe they should hard cap sweat prices at 5k? I mean.. a gun is like 3.5 ped but you still need to buy the ammo. If you wana get into mining... That's pricey to get into... I don't know what else is available to newbies... Which is why I need a mentor. =D

Well sweat is something whic depends on 99.99 % on market value. Since there are many freeloaders competing against each other combined with a limited demand of Mind Essence. Sweat prices went down. And either Mindark takes action to increase demand for sweat and therefore the price again ( which might not be very wise at all ), or freloaders start to deposit or quit.

I think sweating was basically designed as evaluation variant for the game, and this is still possible. It just became very hard to fund whole gameplay by sweating and building up a "fortune" with it. Some ppl managed in the past and some might so in the future, but imho it's not a bad thing it became harder to play for free. It should just be a tiny bit easier to play cheaper for non-free

 

[Damnatio]

Well, if you are only sweating, this is not playing anyway.
It's more like slavery

 

[LeWolf86]

People who were use to having sweat funding most their gameplay are upset because the same time it took to earn 5PED now only earns less....

Sweating is a way to IMO build some skill, pass some time, socialize, get sweat for personal use.... doing it as a way to fund yourself in EU is not the way to go.... break it down.... maybe before it was possible... but now.... its a joke lol..... 3.5ped for 1.5-2hrs of work.... thats like less then 20 cents per hour.....

If you like the game and want to try it out... just pay $10-$20 thatll give you enough starting funds to try out the game.... and like I said.... IRL people spend more for console games that last like 2-3 days.... (although they might give better value for entertainment) but after that its gone.... so try it out... if you dont like it quit.

 

[Fopsie]

WOW atm 60%+ think its bad and well I agree

Thank God I sold the 37k sweat I had the moment the new MF system came online.

Well guess its starting to become to risky for me to accept sweat as payment for armor parts anymore sins it droped down insane ammounts in the time sins I last played and I can not see any stop to the price crash.

Why is it risky you may ask. Usualy I trade for 2-3 months and then make ME from all the sweat I accepted and sell it in bulk. What price do you think sweat would be at in 3 months? If the price drops .0001 its no big deal but droping 0.0008 as it did sins the last time I did the math (2-3 months) I would have to drive my Markup on armors up insanely or drop accepted price of sweat bigtime just to ensure I dont risk droping into the red next time I sell bulk ME, That or sell off all the ME each week witch seems like to mutch hassles and Auction fees. Bessides who needs ME anymore ?

Basicaly only TP chip users used ME and with the addition of vehicles it seems that even less ppl is using TP chips for small tp hops. I have hang my lesser and minor chip up sins I bought a vehicle as its just so much more economical to use the vehicle for distances like that and doesnt take that long compared to running the same distance

A quick check of market values of ME and FN while preparing to startup trading again gave me a big shock.

FN = ~106%
ME = ~148%

1k FN * markup = 10.6 PED
decay on refiner = .40 PED
= 11 PED to make 100K ME (10PED TT ME)

(100K ME * markup) -11 PED manufacturing cost = 3.8 PED

3.8PED / 1k = 0.0038 ped per bottle not counting auction fees.

This has also frackedup a brilliant business plan I thought up this weekend for a new service thanks to the lvl of uncertianty of the future price of sweat.

FPC get rid of this crap SME or give ME more uses as the future of this game is the new guys. Atm I think more of the Veteran players is going then the ammount of new players sticking arround for more then a month.

More ME usage = larger demand for sweat
larger demand for sweat = better sweat price
better sweat price = happier noobs
happier noobs = increasing player base

vvv
Increasing player base = more traders >>>
more traders = more competitive prices >>>
more competitive prices = Inflation >>>
Inflation = more happy noobs >>>
more happy noobs = bigger player base >>>
bigger player base = better returns for all >>>
better returns = better prices on sweat >>>
better prices on sweat = Increasing player base ^^^

Ofcorce for all of this to work I assume that a bigger player base would bring more depositers and ME users and not just meen more noobs flooding the market with sweat nether to deposit

In short and my crazy logic broken down to a more sane lvl.
More uses / users for ME = Better sweat price
Better sweat price = continued existance of game
continued existance of game =

Was the Sweat cap realy that bad ? remember the price of sweat in the caped period was 1pec+/bottle and returns wore kickass.

Hope I made atleast one persons head go POP

 

[LeWolf86]

FPC get rid of this crap SME or give ME more uses as the future of this game is the new guys. Atm I think more of the Veteran players is going then the ammount of new players sticking arround for more then a month.

More ME usage = larger demand for sweat
larger demand for sweat = better sweat price
better sweat price = happier noobs
happier noobs = increasing player base

vvv
Increasing player base = more traders >>>
more traders = more competitive prices >>>
more competitive prices = Inflation >>>
Inflation = more happy noobs >>>
more happy noobs = bigger player base >>>
bigger player base = better returns for all >>>
better returns = better prices on sweat >>>
better prices on sweat = Increasing player base ^^^

Ofcorce for all of this to work I assume that a bigger player base would bring more depositers and ME users and not just meen more noobs flooding the market with sweat nether to deposit

In short and my crazy logic broken down to a more sane lvl.
More uses / users for ME = Better sweat price
Better sweat price = continued existance of game
continued existance of game =

Well your logic fails in one spot....

More ME usage = Increase Demand of Sweat....
Increase of Sweat = Increase of Sweat Price
Increase of Sweat Price = Happy Noobs
Happier Noobs = Increased Player Base
Increased Player Base = Increased Supply of Sweat
Increased Supply of Sweat = Lower Sweat Price
Lower Sweat Price = Unhappy Noobs

The fact remains though.... those who sweat and continue to sweat and hate low sweat price are those who rely on it to play the game.... Its not worth it... Sweating is an old age thing.... People who deposit and use ME enjoy lower price of ME because it makes using TP chips a bit more economical and worth while to use.

Ill admit it was a bit of a slap in the face for MA to remove pretty much every use of ME... but then they also made it so people could a bit more economically use TTME and in the process those who enjoyed the savings liked it... and MA liked the extra decay added to the items used.

Anyways.... what MA needs to is IMO maybe limit the amount of sweat one can gather per avatar like before.... (somehow prevent double accounts lol) and also.... at the same time offer players something useful to use ME for...

 

[Fopsie]

Well your logic fails in one spot....

More ME usage = Increase Demand of Sweat....
Increase of Sweat = Increase of Sweat Price
Increase of Sweat Price = Happy Noobs
Happier Noobs = Increased Player Base
Increased Player Base = Increased Supply of Sweat
Increased Supply of Sweat = Lower Sweat Price
Lower Sweat Price = Unhappy Noobs

Thats why I said "Ofcorce for all of this to work I assume that a bigger player base would bring more depositers and ME users and not just meen more noobs flooding the market with sweat nether to deposit "

But most likely the market would just get more and more flooded with sweat at the end of the day.

Ok anyway I came back to the forum just to ensure my calculations of sweat price was acurate and to find out wtf is going on with price of sweat. Now I am going back to not using the forum again.

 

[davidgr1200]

The price of sweat will go down as long as people sweat too much. There is too much sweat available for sale so buyers can name their own price. Personally I've given up sweating except to get the little I need to fund my own teleport chip.