Sweat Petition Help Us MA!!!!

[Corey 'Greyfox']

Disregarding the trolling and flamebait parts of this post:

I am not sure that ND can use sweat in his blueprints without MindArks permission. Even so, it is hardly enough to drive up sweat prices.

Well if ND needed Mindarks permission then he got it. Maybe FPC should start caring about it's new players and do the same thing.
I doubt the blueprints needing sweat will increase the value of sweat on Calypso, but it will probably stabilize it on the Rock, and NI if it's needed in BP's there.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Well if ND needed Mindarks permission then he got it. Maybe FPC should start caring about it's new players and do the same thing.
I doubt the blueprints needing sweat will increase the value of sweat on Calypso, but it will probably stabilize it on the Rock, and NI if it's needed in BP's there.

Maybe, but I am still not sure that trying to increase the value of sweat is the RIGHT WAY to help newbies.

 

[Whiskey Girl]

I am not sure that ND can use sweat in his blueprints without MindArks permission. Even so, it is hardly enough to drive up sweat prices.

Well I would imagine that the BP drops will be regulated by MA based on the demand. If/when RockTropia gets a large player base and more people are burning through these (L) items then there will also be a higher demand for the sweat. That being said.... there will also be more sweaters.

If a BP requires 25 Vibrant Sweat per click and a serious crafter wants to do a run on those BP's I would imagine they'd need enough for 1k clicks or so. 25k Sweat for a crafting run is comparable to a high end MindForce user's weekly ME usage pre VU10 I would think. Much like a 50 click run would be comparable to a lower level players ME usage using lvl I and II TP chips.

At the moment I don't see the said BP's turning sweat into gold..... but it will help to prevent prices from dropping IF enough BP's drop and enough crafters click them before it's too late.

Heck... for all we know, using Vibrant Sweat in BP's might be a pre-requisite by MA for the new BP's coming out. Maybe MA is doing this in response to the rapidly falling sweat prices.

Whiskey

 

[Telgard]

How about making it difficult for Perma-sweaters to actually make really money from their life long endeavors of sweating.
Option E-Beta
Create a secondary economy.
Keep Light and Synth ME
Sweat is to be kept at low sell value of less than 25 cents an hour.
Sweat is to act as a minimum wage for working on Calypso considering it is the only free to play job.
Create Quest npcs like a food shack and bar. (Primarily Port Atlantis)
Create one-use items like food and drinks that can only be purchased and then traded with sweat.
Create items that have storyline effects or minor effects that don't effect eco or effect eco in crazy way that only insane people would use them and then make them only trade-able using the secondary economy.
This would create a small non-payable economy for those who might be future depositors.

This would create a list of items that Planet Partners and Mindark can place in game without worrying about upsetting the balance of the actual economy and could be used for storyline purposes.

 

[narfi]

Disregarding the trolling and flamebait parts of this post:

I am not sure that ND can use sweat in his blueprints without MindArks permission. Even so, it is hardly enough to drive up sweat prices.

All the prints that have dropped so far on Rocktropia have Vibrant Sweat listed as a required ingredient. No need to speculate on this since its a known truth.

narfi

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

All the prints that have dropped so far on Rocktropia have Vibrant Sweat listed as a required ingredient. No need to speculate on this since its a known truth.

narfi

Yes, OFC I know that blueprints using sweat has been dropped. However, I was merely stating that ND cant add sweat to his blueprints without MA saying it is ok.

 

[mrs menace]

Yes, OFC I know that blueprints using sweat has been dropped. However, I was merely stating that ND cant add sweat to his blueprints without MA saying it is ok.

And how do you know they didint?

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

And how do you know they didint?

And WHERE THE FUCK did you read me say that they did not?

 

[Mega]

Ok, there has to be a way for newbies to try out this game for either free or for almost free.

When you first arrive you get to mine, hunt AND craft all for free. Many of us tried and tested it out to check it worked - now we are banned so lets hope it works bug free .

In addition to that, FPC / MA introduced the puny to Calypso which you could almost kill by blowing on it. This was good! They added the rookie gun, mining equipment to the TT this was also good!!

However, I do think MA/FPC do need to make and address a need for sweat as its not needed by vehicles (a mistake) and is only really needed by teleport chips.

As noticed by the change to tiering, if what MA/FPC has done to the sweat market has made it so very few new players play the main game for "real" they will either change it or add new uses. I hope and expect new uses. Keep some sweat for when they introduce them.

 

[narfi]

Sorry Nighthawk, I think I must have misunderstood you.

Whiskey,
It would be my assumption and hope that sweat will be used in the blueprints for items (probably just the (L) items) and that components and unlimited "skilling print" items wouldn't use it.

Its great for there to be more uses for sweat that wont make the cost of the sweat preventative to the activity. For the current bps that utilize sweat (dragon plates, and JULEZ sniper rifles) the 25sweat or whatever is negligible for the cost of the final product when considering tt and mu.

But, lets assume there becomes an equivelant to the basic filter bp using rocktropia or NI resources. The cost of sweat (unless it was something like 1-2 bottles per click) would make it so that no one could afford to click that print. It would just be throwing peds away.

Hmm now that I think about it it would would ok as long as the bottle per click count was kept in perspective to the total tt value of the click.

For example: 1 alt ingot(.03ped) + 1 Hurricane Cocktail (.02ped) + 1 bottle of sweat = 1 click on the Guitar String BP
To do a 1000 click run it would cost you 50.01ped tt and if you paid 110% for the ore/enm and 4ped per K for the sweat it would cost you 59ped for the run. This wouldn't be super eco if your tting the strings, but still in the realm of dooable, esp if the strings are used in some other bp.

I guess that's why they have a balancing team at MA

narfi

 

[Slaiine]

Honestly, if you are the type of person out there right now still sweating 24/7, chances are you will never deposit. So please, by all means, keep sweating and flooding the market until you drive the sweat price down so low that you and your buddies give up and leave the game forever.
I for one love to help out at neas and keep the sweating circles alive by healing them. I love to see the quantity of sweat overloading and backing up into ridiculous amounts. The real problem is the people who are offering 5 - 6 ped per k to these freeloaders: you are just prolonging the inevitable death of the sweat market, please stop it.
I look forward to the day when this sweating nonsense is gone forever and we are left with only depositors. Then we can get down to business.

I vote D: I want to buy the sweat for my tp chip from the tt.

 

[Mastergamerx]

i wish that ma would just wipe everyones sweat from there inventory so that a fresh start would make price go back up since the bug made it overflowed

 

[Silver Ice]

Both ideas are bad. Sweat, imo, was never intended to be a permanent or good source of income. If you really are not going to deposit, whether it be because you don't want to or because you cannot, then get up just enough sweat to start doing something else that can bring in an income.

I posted something about this very recently in another forum; it just is not a good idea to make the majority of depositors rely on sweat. It is a losing proposition for both the depositors and MA/FPC, imo, and no matter how much of a demand (if you can really call it that) you create for sweat, people still aren't going to buy it if it is too expensive.

 

[Alpha Prime]

People who offer abuse without thinking

Seems to be a prevalent attitude out ther that sweaters are freeloaders! Mostly it would seem from people who enjoyed the high prices themselves in the early days and have got THEIR frre ride into the game and object to anyone else getting that opportunity. No one is saying that sweating should be A long term option for playing HOWEVER if you want the noobs to stick around LONG enough to LEARN the game and enjoy it then you need to ENCOURAGE them while they are learning. That should be the object. At the moment depositing and playing with low skills chews $$$ to fast with too little result to encourage people to stay. So to all you people who just lash out without thinking, think about this......
If this issue is NOT fixed chances are the game you are so protective of will DIE!!!!! because no one wills tick around to play.
All we are saying is give people a chance for long enough to learn the game and get some reasonable skills before having to deposit big time. I have NO objection to depositing on this game, in fact I am intending to deposit large in the near future and plan to buy a LA so I am NOT someone looking for a free ride.
Thanks Alpha

 

[Whiskey Girl]

bla, bla, bla....

If this issue is NOT fixed chances are the game you are so protective of will DIE!!!!! because no one wills tick around to play.
All we are saying is give people a chance for long enough to learn the game and get some reasonable skills before having to deposit big time. I have NO objection to depositing on this game, in fact I am intending to deposit large in the near future and plan to buy a LA so I am NOT someone looking for a free ride.
Thanks Alpha

Are you kidding me? Deposit as much into EU as any other subscription MMO requires and you can have a HELL OF A GOOD TIME as a noob while "learning the game" for cheaper than it costs to go see a movie. Deposit like the rest of us..... sweat for the skill gains.... not the PEDs.

By the way.... you plan on buying a LA in the near future? Have you not been following the economy at all? Geez.... all the sweating in the world ain't gonna teach you a thing about EU.

Whiskey

 

[aj502]

Meh...Dunno why I bothered reading this...They're always the same....

But really, I've said it plenty of times yet I know noone will do it...Hell, it's obvious.
Sweat price sucks? well....STOP SELLING IT FOR SO FUCKING LOW THEN!

Some player offers me 3 ped for my 1k I'll tell him to shove his 3 ped up him Atrox-Hole and go out and sweat themselves!
Bjorn is cool for doing what he does...He's not the only one that does it, but don't rely on random acts on kindness, because that's what it is....

You greedy sweaters all want more yet STILL sell for low...Again...DON'T SELL IT FOR SO LOW THEN!

New player:"Yea AJ? So what am I supposed to do with all the sweat that I get until prices rise? HUH????"
AJ: Put it in your storage and let them get it themselves. I have 100k in storage. (Actually had...Still have about 1/2 that tho)

New player:"So just keep it and do nothing...What am I supposed to do? Huh? HUH?"
AJ: Keep sweating...You get skills...Haven't you noticed? Try going out and getting some TPs by yourself w/o a vehichle...You'll learn TONS doing that too...Look on the ground foir fruit/stones/dung (that stuff sells better than sweat and takes about the same amount of time, more or less...)

New player:"Yea...Sure...I bet that's easy for you to say...You prolly sold sweat when it was 5ped/1k..."
AJ: Nope...It was generally around 3 ped/1k and lower...But I managed to sell most at 4ped to start a little stash...

New player: "Whatever dude...I don't wanna deposit first and then find out I don't like the game...I hear you HAVE to deposit anyway to have any fun. I wanna play for free...Nyeh."
AJ: You sound impatient. I mean say someone came and bought your 1k for 5 ped...Whatcha going to do with it? Buy some ammo and blast things and be broke again (prolly). 5 ped ain't anything.

I see this al the time: Buy my 500 sweat for "X" amount? REALLY???
You only JUST got 500 and now you're ready to take on Entropia. eh?
Nah Cheif...Try sweating about 20k to start.

But I digress....Along with the above I ALWAYS see people in these threads saying:
Depositing player: "STFU n00b! I deposit....My friends deposit! You HAVE to deposit to play! Otherwise shaddap and go play Farmville or something and quit spamming. YOU HAVE TO DEPOSIT!!!! OMGLOLROLFC0PT0RZ!!11!1!111!!!!!"

To which I say: "No you don't. I never have and I have plenty of fun (Eh...Usually...).
Don't tell people what to do with their money...Maybe they can't afford to depo yet, or just don't want to now.
You don't HAVE to depo to play EU at all.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not putting anyone down here. It's just always the one extrreme to the other.
Depo to play or sweat to play.

Pleanty of grey area inbetween, but I suppose I'm the only one to figure that out.
Sure, I have never depo'd but I am not saying you can play for free by sweating only.


Had to reply to this:

At the moment depositing and playing with low skills chews $$$ to fast with too little result to encourage people to stay....................All we are saying is give people a chance for long enough to learn the game and get some reasonable skills before having to deposit big time.

Eh...This isn't true at all...
If some new player deposits, oh say 10 bucks and wants to hunt but has no skills....
Hm...Get a Kiwio and a ton of ammo!
Those things are cheap, are AWESOME for a new player, last hella long before breaking, are STILL cheap to replace if they do break and will provide many hours of hunting on a $10 depo.

Hell, those things are really kind of fun to blast punys with. I still do it when I don't wanna "donate" my ped to MA in a hunt, but still wanna hunt.
Go put 10 ped ammo in a Kiwio and see how long it lasts!

Get a gang of Kiwios and team hunt youngs-olds.

If you really are not going to deposit, whether it be because you don't want to or because you cannot, then get up just enough sweat to start doing something else that can bring in an income.

This guy sounds smart...I would listen to him if he posts again.




But kinda back to the original topic to close.
If you want sweat price to go "up", stop selling for so low.

Seems really obvious to me.







Tippin'

 

[M Rufen Power]

i wish that ma would just wipe everyones sweat from there inventory so that a fresh start would make price go back up since the bug made it overflowed

That imo is actually a good idea, not just from the bug on NI but from all exploits and sweat stocked up from years back .

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

i wish that ma would just wipe everyones sweat from there inventory so that a fresh start would make price go back up since the bug made it overflowed

Oh yes, I have been buying sweat from new players on NI since the middle of December(roughly) please, MA, screw me out of that money I spent. Please MA, take what should be a 20-40% loss(I was paying 5/k) and turn that into 100% loss. Yes MA, steal my sweat from me. I would really love that. Yes MA, appeal to the whining bitches.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

i wish that ma would just wipe everyones sweat from there inventory so that a fresh start would make price go back up since the bug made it overflowed

Which bug? The only REAL sweat bug I know of is the one that made it mineable on NI and I don't think that gave enough sweat to drive down prices...

No one is saying that sweating should be A long term option for playing HOWEVER if you want the noobs to stick around LONG enough to LEARN the game and enjoy it then you need to ENCOURAGE them while they are learning.

Yes but the problem is that if you raise sweat prices more people will use it as a long term option. Therefore, I still believe that it would be best to find some other way for newbies to experience more of the game in the start...

Are you kidding me? Deposit as much into EU as any other subscription MMO requires and you can have a HELL OF A GOOD TIME as a noob while "learning the game" for cheaper than it costs to go see a movie.

Yep, swunting for 20USD/month and going on team opalo hunts, tp runs, etc is not that bad and YES, 20USD can last a whole month unless you decide to start spending it on other things.

Oh yes, I have been buying sweat from new players on NI since the middle of December(roughly) please, MA, screw me out of that money I spent. Please MA, take what should be a 20-40% loss(I was paying 5/k) and turn that into 100% loss. Yes MA, steal my sweat from me. I would really love that. Yes MA, appeal to the whining bitches.

I wouldn't worry Corey they would never do that, as most of the player base would quit in protest

 

[Alice]

yet again, it is nonsense to assume that removing synthetic ME would make everyone using MF now keep doing it with ME at markup

the, compared to before (1 in a thousand), big amount of ppl using MF (maybe 1 in 50) is nonsense
because it would go to the amount it used to be before
and thus, the price for sweat would remain the same, as no (signifcant) demand is added

as to the fuel thing, that could work, but you dont count with MA/FPC there
they never count at the market value
which would mean that you had 2000 sweat used per km (or more), as that is 2 pec tt
that this would actually cost say 6-10 ped then, is a totally other thing
refining to fuel ME or so wouldnt change it much, or make it worse

i dont find either option useful tbh

 

[Alpha Prime]

Quick Summary

OK one good idea I've seen so far to appease the "I dont want it to be a long term career" people (which I incidentally agree with) would be to reinstitute the sweat cap. That way it would remain a beginners help.

I think maybe some additional uses for sweat like combined and made into something for temporary increased speed/ strength etc. My apologies if something like that already there I am still learning all the aspects fo this game.

An alternative to the sweat cap would be to just make it harder to sweat so it takes longer.

I lean towards the ideas that move the economy of the game tho, that help to move the funds around, therefore I favour additional products being able to be made with sweat.

 

[John B Knight]

My suggestion would be to allow a combination of vibrant sweat with synthetic sweat in the refiner to produce some kind of powered/energized sweat as alternate 'ammo' for mindforce attack chips. With that special ammo the damage per cast could be modified - be it 10,50 or 100% more damage depending on the amount of sweat MA decides to be used in the creation process.
Maybe implement several levels of 'modified' sweat.
Depending on the balance decision this could increase eco as well as dps on mindforce atk chips making vibrant sweat useful again and securing/increasing its value.

Maybe implement some kind of production process for energized blp/laser ammo as well in which vibrant sweat is used - of course thinking about the consequences it might be good to have some kind of trigger for events to allow or exclude use of modified ammo.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

I think maybe some additional uses for sweat like combined and made into something for temporary increased speed/ strength etc.

We do have the metabolic chips (increase/decrease speed), but they require so high skills and have so high markup (that one is dropping now tho) that very very few people actually are able to use them...

As they require lvl 25 cryo to be used, you must have AT LEAST that lvl to even use them (remember, MF is not like guns where you can use it inefficently at any lvl, you must have reached the minimum lvl) and an implant to match... just not worth it IMO

 

[Derid]

I am a sweater, I sweat a lot, not the most or the hardest. But I sweated A LOT. Most of it I just throw into storage now and it will just probably rot there.

A sweat cap back into the game I am totally okay with. Would not mind it at all actually, would welcome it.

But then to all you guys who trashtalk sweaters etc, we just play the game in a way that works for us. If you got a problem with it, go whine to MA.

Then also, that goes for the people who keeps whining so much about the sweating prices etc. I agree, it is rough that the price goes down and so on. But won't help anything just moaning about it. Try something else, there are other ways of earning PEDs in Entropia. It is hard work and most often quite boring. If you can't deal with that, then deposit.


Derid.

Ps. Have not Deposited, and will not despot. Don't care what you guys think about it, as its my way of playing and my choice, not yours.

 

[Evoluta]

Erm I personally do not agree with a sweat cap. It would just mean you have to twiddle your thumbs or go knit a sweater if at some stage you cant afford to deposit and are not allowed to sweat either.

Then at least let people have some giggles and fun on the bitching hills and get some skills.

just my two cents

Pepper

 

[mrs menace]

1st. gather sweat as u do
2nd deposit
3rd quit game

i think these 3 options is the bests ones for this game

 

[lilac]

Erm I personally do not agree with a sweat cap. It would just mean you have to twiddle your thumbs or go knit a sweater if at some stage you cant afford to deposit and are not allowed to sweat either.

Then at least let people have some giggles and fun on the bitching hills and get some skills.

just my two cents

Pepper

I tend to agree...

If folks want to sweat for fun or skill or to stretch out deposits... no reason to stop them...

I really think a better way to handle it would be to have some sort of mechanism where new players would have a far more profitable experience than veterans... a decaying tool might produce riots in the street... so maybe not that... but something along those lines might be a good idea...

 

[BigBertha]

Why not just deposit like the rest of us instead of crying because you can't get AS MUCH free money any more?

Whiskey

´
Ok i deposit some peds per month... BUT imo its a free to play game (know ppl saying it isnt..)
But what should u do if u didnt have the sweaters???
Should u go out and gather sweat urself for the ME?
Maybe depoers should stop mining also? Or why not stop playing?
Its a lifestyle, i refer to an oldtimer ingame and he gathered sweat for a Coat just for fun i believe it was also

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?70317-Personal-Quest-Sweat-a-Master-Coat-(F)
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?88738-Personal-Achievement-Sweated-a-Master-Coat-(F)!&highlight=sweat+for+a+coat

 

[Silver Ice]

Sheesh. Alright guys, look. I don't have a problem with sweaters, and most depositors that I know also do not have any problem with sweaters. If you want to take the time to gather sweat until your sweet little heart can't take it anymore then go sell it to play for a few hours, and return to sweating again, then all the more power to you.

What I AM saying, however, is that you can't whine about the price, when sweating is not INTENDED to be a permanent source of income. This is not a charity, and while some depositors are actually very charitable, you can't expect the majority of depositors to give PEDs out of the goodness of their hearts and fund every sweater's playing habits. They deposit because they want to PLAY, not because they want to give the money away to sweaters so the sweaters can play.

There are other ways in EU to make money. If you want to make more money more quickly than what you can by sweating, then find another profession. They ARE out there. Be creative. Forcing people to be charitable is NOT the answer; people work hard for their money, if they want to spend that money on a big uneconomical hogglo hunt in ghost armor with an ek2600 on Calypso instead of giving it away to some noob for a few TP jumps, then they should be allowed to do so. It benefits more people that way, encourages the depositors to keep doing what they are doing, and I'm sure even helps with making the sweater's PEDs go further when they go out for their little Daikiba hunts.

Understand now? We are not bashing on sweaters or noobs. Heck, some of us even love noobs. We are, however, stating that you can't expect FPC or depositors to fund your playing habits for little to no effort on your part. Sweating is an easy, mindless task that is there to help you get a start until you decide to deposit or find another way to make money. If you still want to continue to sweat anyway, well, then why, exactly, are you complaining about it?

 

[Alpha Prime]

Re: Is this personal?

Ice is this a personal problem you have with me? This is the second of my threads you have posted on and totally missed the point of what the thread was about (either accidently or deliberately I know not). If you read the things being posted you will see what we are about is to find a way to make sweat via as a beginning while learning the game. Sweaters are not asking for charity just a fair chance to get to grips with the game. Just out of interest Ice how long have you been playing? You wouldn't be one of those players who got the 5+ PED a k sweat days by any chance?