sweaters: what's the caution all about? :S

jaywalker

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Every now and then I need to buy a few k of sweat. I'd rather not buy from re-seller, cos I prefer to pay a little bit over current mu to help out new players a bit; so - if i have time- i generally seek out a sweat goup and join in for a while, so I can tell who the genuine sweaters are. Lately I've been going to Neas for this, and chatting to people individually cos the group is bloody huge and i don't want to be snowed under with offers (I've never needed more than 10k at a time- usually less).

Last time I was there I foulnd that nobody responded to my PMs, so I finally starteed asking in local, and i still found that people weren't responding. Eventually , I did get my sweat but it was such bloody hard work, i think I might just sweat it myself next time :laugh:

Some people there said that the reason I was having a hard time was because "There are a lot of scammers about". And somebody advised the other sweaters to wait for one of the "big buyers" instead

So what i want to know is:

a) what the hell is this new scam that makes it so inadvisable to sell your sweat?

b) have i somehow made it onto somebody's scammer list? In my 5 years in-game, I never encountered such suspicion before. And I can't make sense of it otherwise.

Now, I know it's against forum rules to post scamming accusations, but , since that rule is there to protect the innocent parties from false accusation, I'm sure an exception will be made if the innocent party is asking to know. I certainly don't feel protected by that rule.

In any case I shall avoid going back to Nea's for sweat, cos that whole thing left a really bad taste :(

jay
 
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You don't help new players with buying sweat at 2.5 ped/ or more. They think its the normal price and its not.
When i have sweat i sell it at 1.8/k, a long time already. At that price you can buy as much as you want, not only from me.
 

Nisha

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I have spent a bit of time lately at Icarus and Nea's lately offering vehicle repairs, but I have not witnessed a situation like that. :confused:

Usually, if someone offers to buy players ask for the price and if the offer is at least in the usual range, deals are closed quickly.

It is quite common, though, that there are players whose gameplay seems to revolve around sweat (nearly) exclusively explain to others what is acceptable and how they think the sweat market should work. I have seen them telling off other players more than once and the term 'scam' seems to be used for real scams as well as offers that are below expectations.

Too bad they do not consider the possibility that potential buyers might be turned off by this behavior as well.

Btw: There is also a sweating group at OLA #42. Maybe you'll find buying sweat there a less annoying experience.
 

jaywalker

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You don't help new players with buying sweat at 2.5 ped/ or more. They think its the normal price and its not.
When i have sweat i sell it at 1.8/k, a long time already. At that price you can buy as much as you want, not only from me.
Umm. That does not explain the suspicion. Even if the newbies knew my price befre they spoke to me, i don't see why they should be fearful of someone offering to buy for "normal price"

Well i guess you must have been there, cos you seem to know what price i was buying at yesterday (it varies depending on my means at the time, how much i am buying, and how poor the seller looks). Pity you can;t find anything more helpful to say.
 

Nor Alien

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I don't bother telling them what price I'm buying it at! I ask what they are selling it for then in trade, I put in more then click the deal button.

Sweat sells at what ever your willing to take and not what others are saying it should be. if you understand that it is not normally going to sell for more then that is a good rule of thumb to live by. If people are saying they shouldn't take more, then I think that is the scam! If I offer you more and you don't want to take it, it's your loss not mine! :wise: Telling others not to accept more when it is offered, because it should be less, is wrong.
 

Hijacker27

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Don't forget 90% of the avatars at sweating groups are bots since you don't need to be at your computer to sweat any more...
 

jaywalker

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It is quite common, though, that there are players whose gameplay seems to revolve around sweat (nearly) exclusively explain to others what is acceptable and how they think the sweat market should work. I have seen them telling off other players more than once and the term 'scam' seems to be used for real scams as well as offers that are below expectations.

Too bad they do not consider the possibility that potential buyers might be turned off by this behavior as well.

Btw: There is also a sweating group at OLA #42. Maybe you'll find buying sweat there a less annoying experience.
ty, Nisha :) and +rep

Well i wasn't making offers "below expectations" and never have, so I'm still in the dark as to why people should think I am a scammer :S


jay :)
 

jaywalker

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I don't bother telling them what price I'm buying it at! I ask what they are selling it for then in trade, I put in more then click the deal button.
That's exactly what I do too!
 

Nisha

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ty, Nisha :) and +rep

Well i wasn't making offers "below expectations" and never have, so I'm still in the dark as to why people should think I am a scammer :S


jay :)
Thnx, Jay :)

I think there were just too many people around who think any offer might be a potential scam (in whatever sense), which makes you a potential 'scammer' (in whatever sense) and it might be better not to talk to you at all.

Sad, because I do not see how this attitude is helping anyone.
 

K-Max

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You don't help new players with buying sweat at 2.5 ped/ or more. They think its the normal price and its not.
When i have sweat i sell it at 1.8/k, a long time already. At that price you can buy as much as you want, not only from me.

LOL paying higher for sweat doesn't help new players? To funny, that new player just made more PED to use how is that not helping them. I'll never understand how others think. I to offer more then measly 1.8 ped per k to help out the new players enjoy the game more. I offer lower amounts for huge stack but pay upwards of 5 ped per k for small stacks. I don't do this all the time just when I need it and when I ask for sweat.

I'd say if someone offers 5 PED per K that is a rare offer and should be accepted no matter what. It is an offer not a steady purchasing stream so I don't see an issue with this at all.

You see it all the time where people pay 50% more for a smaller amount in AH and is a common practice you see in real life also. Smaller amounts more expensive then surplus amounts that is called commerce.
 

mastermesh

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Don't forget 90% of the avatars at sweating groups are bots since you don't need to be at your computer to sweat any more...
I'm not sure they are bots.. more afk folks I think.

In a situation like that if no one answers, you can pretty much assume that all are afk or bots though sadly. That being the case, if it was me in that situation, I'd be tempted to stir up a wave of agro ambu on the group and try back later an hour later after that group of afkers leave and the real sweaters come in. Then buy. I think that's what some buyers do a lot there since there are so many agro mob waves from time to time.

;)
 

Jennson

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I think the proble here is the overstressed term scammer. Well last time i was in swamp ( yes back then there was one lol ) quite in the beginning of VU10 it started that everyone was called scammer.

Someone offering prices below expectations: scammer
Someone offering cheap items, that had no SIB ( Jester D1 almost for TT ): scammer
Someone helding trivia contests: scammer ( whyever that was )

and so on.

Maybe it is the time to tell them the difference between a bad deal and a scam. Or maybe to teach them to think themselves- Dunno

or in short: :scratch2::dunno::poke::whisper::eureka:
 

Neil Stockton

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I guess it wouldn't be the first time that newbies at he sweating grounds were misinformed about something :)

This case, though, makes me wonder if there is a more malicious element involved here.... Someone has apparently told these sweaters that it's dangerous to sell to anyone who pays "too much" for sweat and to only sell to the "big buyers" who pay low prices. The only people I can see benefiting from this are the sweat traders and crafters who want to scalp the newbies. Sounds quite shady to me.

A few of the key concepts that they're not getting a chance to learn here is that there is no "true" price for anything in game (the price is what each buyer and seller are willing to agree to), that you can avoid scams by always making use of the safety controls built into the trading system, and that often you can get the best deals by by NOT doing what everyone else is doing.
 

Ludvig|MindArk

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I think the proble here is the overstressed term scammer. Well last time i was in swamp ( yes back then there was one lol ) quite in the beginning of VU10 it started that everyone was called scammer.
Yes, there also seems to be a problem that some older players seem to feel they are the only ones "allowed" to deal with newbies in certain areas, and do anything to get rid of others that might "threaten" that (I've run into a couple).

I also agree that people yell scam when there actually is no scam, only a bad deal... But some others also use it to attack or defame others. Even to threaten (one newbie actually threatened to report me for harassment and scamming because I refused to give him free stuff, back when I was a non-depo).



This is obviously a problem, since it not only makes other older players less willing to help, but also may strike against newbies and cause them to quit since the community seems worse than it is because of a few players :dunno:
 

Shard-Angel

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Its simple:

Announce in local that you're buying 10k at 3/k, limited to 1k per avatar.

Let them swarm you, but It's simple to keep track of the first 10 avatars who open trade with you. ;)
 

bard119

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I imagine it could something like this:

Bad Mentor: You can sell your sweat to me for 1 ped/k
Sweat buyer: Buying sweat, 2 ped/k
Disciple: That guy is offering 2 ped/k, isn't that a better deal?
Bad Mentor: Yes but then I wouldn't be able to rip you off... errr... I mean, it must be too good to be true! that guy is only offering that price because he's going to scam you in the trade window.

It could be that someone just came by recently and bought everyone out. People are usually too impatient, selling 100 sweat at a time sometimes, no wonder people try to rip them off - they look too desperate. When I was a regular sweater, I would collect a minimum of 10K at a time, and wait for someone buying at a fair price, even if it took me over a week to get it.
 

Sidney

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I have had something similar.
Try to give away 10 times 10 ped there.... you'll be busy for ours.

I did that once as promised that if I got help with something so when I got helped out I had to keep my promise.
One even called me scammer ....

He what ?
Yes for giving random noobs 10 ped...

In the end I kept my promise , but never set foot there ever since.
Man the most of them don't want any help I guess.
The thing is , it gave me a bad taste / experience how manny ppl think.

Or better ....don't think.
 

Nisha

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I have had something similar.
Try to give away 10 times 10 ped there.... you'll be busy for ours.

I did that once as promised that if I got help with something so when I got helped out I had to keep my promise.
One even called me scammer ....

He what ?
Yes for giving random noobs 10 ped...

In the end I kept my promise , but never set foot there ever since.
Man the most of them don't want any help I guess.
The thing is , it gave me a bad taste / experience how manny ppl think.

Or better ....don't think.

I remember this one.

You asked on the forum where the best place is for such a giveaway and the went on to post the screenies of the trades. - You really put a lot of work into this.
 

M Rufen Power

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I just think the newbie mentality has been skewed over the years. Maybe to many newbies from other games are filtering into our society. I'm not really sure where I'am going with this without going off topic. It has been a long time for me since I sweated or even become a sweat buyer / ME trader. All I know is majority of newbies can't think for themselves in terms of productivity. I have met some really nice, good attitude new players who dream big & others who have no morals at all let alone dreams. I met a pretty bad disciple & after that didn't really want to help any new player again because of it, as your guard is up & pride is hurt from the lose. If anything I would say the most common scam amongst sweaters is their own peer group & fear mongering. It's time these pups started climbing out of the basket they are in.
 

Few Scars

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I went down to Neas today to buy some sweat. Asked just for 2K on local chat and no response.... I approached the 30 strong sweat circle.....no response? They are working so hard, yet don't want to sell. Wasn't until I was leaving some dude replied. When I asked what price he replied 1.8Ped/k...I gave him 2 anyway as I was short on Peds myself. But the question is

WTF!

Why are these guys slaving away for hours to sell their 1000 bottles of sweat for 1.8Ped ffs! They control the flow of sweat, yet can be organised enough to raise the prices? MindArk even gave them a free ticket by making Sweat a component of many BPs to increase demand.....nothing. I have seen many sweat unions etc, but they still sell for nothing.

If they started selling at 3Ped per k, yes sales would be very slow to start with, but like anything in this game, pressure does many things to the economy!
 
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