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That's how the system works in the game hahaha

avalonis

avalonis

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Avalonis
Svlad Mukke Cjelli has a total of 8000 global in entropy life on the hunt and gives him almost 3600-
and in 6 years it has never given me more than 1700 ahahha! LOL
 
a globe is not a HOF) There are other multipliers
 
I understand your frustration; I have more then 80K PEDS in globals and have only one uber HoF of 1k lol.

I've always tried to play eco and cheap and I think that's why I never pushed big multis.

As already mentioned, I really think it is related to how much PED you spend per time unit; if you manage to spend a lot of peds lets say per hour, in a decent sample of cycled PEDs, when that bigger multi comes, it's heavier. This doesn't mean you will lose less or win more (I believe you'll lose more hence why I keep playing cheap).

Then, there seems to be those rare, lucky, random big multis that never hit unlucky people like us. Frustrating, but it's how the game is, either cope with it or move one I would say. (I think they're there to push you to keep cycling and distract you from the reality of how much you're already paying to play).
 
Next time move from kerbs and use a weapon that consume peds
also while you are at it, get a mentor that must teach you hofs doesnt count in how many years you play the game but in how much you spend /year to relevant mobs.
 
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Bender said:
I understand your frustration; I have more then 80K PEDS in globals and have only one uber HoF of 1k lol.

I've always tried to play eco and cheap and I think that's why I never pushed big multis.

As already mentioned, I really think it is related to how much PED you spend per time unit; if you manage to spend a lot of peds lets say per hour, in a decent sample of cycled PEDs, when that bigger multi comes, it's heavier. This doesn't mean you will lose less or win more (I believe you'll lose more hence why I keep playing cheap).

Then, there seems to be those rare, lucky, random big multis that never hit unlucky people like us. Frustrating, but it's how the game is, either cope with it or move one I would say. (I think they're there to push you to keep cycling and distract you from the reality of how much you're already paying to play).
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I was on Thomas with 13 amps and didn't get anything.
 
Bender said:
I understand your frustration; I have more then 80K PEDS in globals and have only one uber HoF of 1k lol.

I've always tried to play eco and cheap and I think that's why I never pushed big multis.

As already mentioned, I really think it is related to how much PED you spend per time unit; if you manage to spend a lot of peds lets say per hour, in a decent sample of cycled PEDs, when that bigger multi comes, it's heavier. This doesn't mean you will lose less or win more (I believe you'll lose more hence why I keep playing cheap).

Then, there seems to be those rare, lucky, random big multis that never hit unlucky people like us. Frustrating, but it's how the game is, either cope with it or move one I would say. (I think they're there to push you to keep cycling and distract you from the reality of how much you're already paying to play).
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Yup - only the idiot nutbar crazy gamblers with unlimited income can HOF. I play eco too and it's the only way to play if you want to stay in all day and not lose your shirt. There's literally no chance for big returns until you get stupid and pay big money. Lootius is evil empire. Hablo el Diablo?
 
slither said:
That's a welcome back hof :) he's been gone for 17 years.
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Your take on this genuinely interests me.

Doesn't a welcome back HoF imply personal loot? I came back a after 7 years, and after consistently cycling more then 40k PEDs on mobs with HP higher then 640 HP (HP of the mob of that 3k Pedder HoF) and even finished bronze mayhem mission grinding this same mob, the best I got in terms of swirls is a 1xx pedder. Where do we stand then? Some get welcome back HoF, others are ugly ducks? :D

Don't take this in a wrong way and I've already shared my thoughts on this on a previous post on this thread; I'm just curious in understanding the insight of someone that has cycled way more than me and thus has more experience :)
 
Contract CH Hunter said:
Welcome back HoF = Amount of loss

You made, before you rage quited last time. 🙂
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That’s an assumption mate, I didn’t rage quit 😉.
I understand very well what you mean, but that was not the core of my question.
 
Bender said:
Doesn't a welcome back HoF imply personal loot? I came back a after 7 years, and after consistently cycling more then 40k PEDs on mobs with HP higher then 640 HP (HP of the mob of that 3k Pedder HoF) and even finished bronze mayhem mission grinding this same mob, the best I got in terms of swirls is a 1xx pedder. Where do we stand then? Some get welcome back HoF, others are ugly ducks? :D
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This is the same as what fuels the idea of clawbacks and/or paybacks. It is selection bias.

Someone see people who hit big, check their history, and see that they have recently come back from a break. Then we call this a welcome back HOF. We don't see all the hundreds of people who return from breaks and get nothing. We only see the ones who hit big and thus conclude "when you return after a long break you are more likely to hit big"

Same with clawbacks and paybacks:

We mostly see the ones verbally upset with their returns post a big hit, and conclude that the system takes back what it has given.

Similar with payback hofs. We see people complain about their poor returns and then see their name on the ticker with a big hit.

Now I am probably going to get a bit of hate for this post from the ones who believe (very strongly) that these things are real.

I have just seen no indicator at all that there is any form of change to loot before or after a big hit. There is no visible change to mean, rolling variance, KS, distribution, autocorrelation(near).

What is very difficult to test is any changes to extreme right tail probabilities. That leaves a small theoretical possibility for "paybacks"

but a "clawback", where losses systematically follow a big hit would require a reduction in the body or near right tail probabilities. This would be detectable with rolling mean, variance, KS test or autocorrelation. None of which have been observed in my dataset thus far.
 
Contract CH Hunter said:
IF it's not related to your turn over return %?

Define said loot pool we are talking about here.

Are you talking about your turn over return %? (moments when game balance out your below expected return % moment)

Are you talking about spesific mob loot-table having global pool from where loot is distributed to all players killing said mob?

Are you talking about, spesific mob loot-table and the moment you loot something outside of that as global loot pool?

Are you talking about purely globals and HoF:s being pooled together for all players while ignoring loot-tables, mobs, locations and player action and their expected TT return % but still being distributed?

What is this personal lootpool or global loot pool? Definition matter so i know are we talking about same thing.
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The point on my question was way simpler than that and very well explain by Ferial. I too believe that "welcome back hof" or "payback hof" and so on are just bias but was curious to hear insights of way more experienced players than me.
 
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yall realize those big hofs are just corrections right? like legit if you hit a big hof that means you where prolly down that much + some more on top. dont let the big numbers fool you. and come back hofs are just hofs that you didnt stay around long enough to hit the last time :ROFLMAO: this is a long term game not a hit quick and get out game thats something alot either dont understand or just choose to overlook
 
I have cycled a few million peds, never hit a xxxxx hof, and i was happy with it. What made me quit was the fact that i was starting to need xxxxx hofs to minimize my loss
 
And this thread right here are filled with so much made up stuff despite numbers being available for anyone to read.

There are no personal loot pools and here is why: Completely unnecessary collection and handling of data since randomness works itself out. If there was, I wouldn't be swirling my ass off this month.

Every Hof looks like Payback Hof BECAUSE THE RANGE OF MULTIPLIERS IS HUGE. On a perfect day you lose money. We always play at a loss.

Eco doesn't affect shit for your chance to hof. Once again just look at my last month on EC when I have drastically raised my eco. A lower cost to kill just means a lower bet. If you go super eco on a high HP mob, odds are the same.

Hof's vart day by day. Right now it is quite high because most players cycle on low cost to kill and we have a ton of loot events.

Usually the reason people experience unreasonable losses is because of improper tracking and sample size. Cycling at a high DPS is expensive if you don't go for markup. In a perfect world where all stars align I will lose 200-300 ped TT any given night and there are a ton of people out there with much higher.

Humans sock at grasping large numbers which becomes really clear in a game like this where everyone is expected to be able to do so.
 
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Epik said:
yall realize those big hofs are just corrections right? like legit if you hit a big hof that means you where prolly down that much + some more on top. dont let the big numbers fool you. and come back hofs are just hofs that you didnt stay around long enough to hit the last time :ROFLMAO: this is a long term game not a hit quick and get out game thats something alot either dont understand or just choose to overlook
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Yep it's quite clear if one tracks.
 
WhiningSkeptic said:
And this thread right here are filled with so much made up stuff despite numbers being available for anyone to read.

There are no personal loot pools and here is why: Completely unnecessary collection and handling of data since randomness works itself out. If there was, I wouldn't be swirling my ass off this month.

Every Hof looks like Payback Hof BECAUSE THE RANGE OF MULTIPLIERS IS HUGE. On a perfect day you lose money. We always play at a loss.

Eco doesn't affect shit. Once again just look at my last month on EC. A lower cost to kill just means a lower bet. If you go super eco on a high HP mob, odds are the same.

Hof's vart day by day. Right now it is quite high because most players cycle on low cost to kill and we have a ton of loot events.

Usually the reason people experience unreasonable losses is because of improper tracking and sample size. Cycling at a high DPS is expensive if you don't go for markup. In a perfect world where all stars align I will lose 200-300 ped TT any given night and there are a ton of people out there with much higher.

Humans sock at grasping large numbers which becomes really clear in a game like this where everyone is expected to be able to do so.
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eco/eff def has a effect on the long term as been stated by MA the rest id agree with
 
Epik said:
eco/eff def has a effect on the long term as been stated by MA the rest id agree with
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I mean for your chance to Hof. What you do is you lower your current bet which is great since the volatility isn't as bad (counted in ped value). It isn't magic, it is just numbers.

So yes, we agree I was talking in the context of "I play eco I get no Hof". I'm gonna guess that for most people chosing a high DPP/eff weapon means going down in DPS and number of loot events

Edit: tried editing the post to be less confusing but have complete brain rot at the moment.
 
WhiningSkeptic said:
Eco doesn't affect shit for your chance to hof. Once again just look at my last month on EC when I have drastically raised my eco. A lower cost to kill just means a lower bet. If you go super eco on a high HP mob, odds are the same.
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Help me understand this statement, a lower bet does not mean a lower potential outcome too?

If it costs 2PED to kill a 600HP mob and RNG generates a 2x multi I get 4 PED
If it costs 4PED to kill a 600HP mob and and RNG generates 2x multi I get 8 PED

Isn't the point of Eco to generate more loot events with the same PED input and as well to generate "more" MU looted per PED spent?
 
Bender said:
Help me understand this statement, a lower bet does not mean a lower potential outcome too?

If it costs 2PED to kill a 600HP mob and RNG generates a 2x multi I get 4 PED
If it costs 4PED to kill a 600HP mob and and RNG generates 2x multi I get 8 PED

Isn't the point of Eco to generate more loot events with the same PED input and as well to generate "more" MU looted per PED spent?
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Yes, in absolute numbers and that is the point of raising your DPP, getting the same amount of markup for a smaller cycle.

But people are saying too efficient and high DPP weapons don't generate globals and hofs which is a tinfoil hat theory. Your 500x multi will most likely be a hof either way. The chances are the same if the bet is the same.

The "theory" is less variance in multipliers which isn't true but more loot events is.

100% efficiency will not make it harder to hit a multi than 0% efficiency and it is quite logical that in order to affect our long term TT return in a reliable way the change needs to be made on the most common multipliers.
 
Bender said:
I understand your frustration; I have more then 80K PEDS in globals and have only one uber HoF of 1k lol.

I've always tried to play eco and cheap and I think that's why I never pushed big multis.

As already mentioned, I really think it is related to how much PED you spend per time unit; if you manage to spend a lot of peds lets say per hour, in a decent sample of cycled PEDs, when that bigger multi comes, it's heavier. This doesn't mean you will lose less or win more (I believe you'll lose more hence why I keep playing cheap).

Then, there seems to be those rare, lucky, random big multis that never hit unlucky people like us. Frustrating, but it's how the game is, either cope with it or move one I would say. (I think they're there to push you to keep cycling and distract you from the reality of how much you're already paying to play).
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nothing strange about that. You don't see the bigger hits until you have 500K ped in globals on your tracker. Also, there is no RNG in this game. That is why you have not hit anything. You need to put in the work. Whether or not the amount of work needed is worth it to you, only you can answer. Trust me, I am just seeing all of this now myself.
 
- No tin foil hat time -

If we are voting Im 99% sure there is personal lootpool.
Personal lootpool = meaning in TT return only based on the activity your doing and MAs cut of the activity (+ tax if applies) taken out first you will receive the remainder over time eventually but algo is a good bit deeper than this but it's a simplified version of it. Can ask Rusty about the slightly more advanced version if you want I think he actually has it pretty spot on. (I'd link the post but they deleted it even tho there was 0 rule breaking things in it). If you hunt only then you'll never see it for what it is because that profession is just so spread out any explanation could work for it. I wish it wasn't based off our losses because I could easily TT profit otherwise.

- Tin foil hat time starting now -

As far as welcome back hofs go - I can't say with a ton of confidence I'm right on this 1 but If I had to guess there is in the algorithm a time factor with average cycle over xxxx amount of time. This helps with 2 things. 1) gives someone returning an addictive hit of what they were owed back from the personal theory getting them hooked again to the game (happened to me and successfully worked on me lol). 2) some players just simply hit their peak deposit limit they can afford and in order to keep playing they have to drop down their cycle drastically. If enough time passes with lower average cycle over time triggering this payback/clawback whatever you want to call it it'll get the player back to his max cycle (read MAs max rake).

----
If you're wondering why you never got a "welcome back hof" as a mid lvl hunter the simple fact is you aren't owed Sh*t. The rake is so dam high for us with low looter and/or eff that the algo struggles to not give us 50% returns every day just to be able to give 1 positive day every 2 months. And if you think all this is just BS anyways and is random ever ask yourself why all the uber players who aren't crafters and hunt extremely smart will condition craft shrapnel bps trying to force a payback when bankroll gets low.
 
I was told-if you get a hof, then change the mob with less hp for 3-4 days or a week
 
we don't play for a month- we go in, take 13 amp and profit on foma- LOL
 
you all making this way to complicated, if there is no personal loot pool or "fair" distribution just find me an avatar who has multiple HOF/ATH over their cycled amount within a given year....i'll wait
 
Makitoki said:
you all making this way to complicated, if there is no personal loot pool or "fair" distribution just find me an avatar who has multiple HOF/ATH over their cycled amount within a given year....i'll wait
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The only 1 I can think of is pudding who didn't even play the game yet came on 1 day dropped on foma for an hour and hit a mining ATH. My tin foil hat there says something fishy going on.. he does own LAs that are now worthless and maybe threaten to sue MA for blatantly destroying their value and they offered a small settlement thru our money out the pool or who knows hard to say. Def suspect at best tho and other than that nobody lol
 
avalonis said:
I was told-if you get a hof, then change the mob with less hp for 3-4 days or a week
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I'll counter:

index.php


Makitoki said:
you all making this way to complicated, if there is no personal loot pool or "fair" distribution just find me an avatar who has multiple HOF/ATH over their cycled amount within a given year....i'll wait
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The distribution is fair. Having a system in place to compensate you for your losses or claw it back would be unfair
 
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James Jimbo Linehan said:
The only 1 I can think of is pudding who didn't even play the game yet came on 1 day dropped on foma for an hour and hit a mining ATH. My tin foil hat there says something fishy going on.. he does own LAs that are now worthless and maybe threaten to sue MA for blatantly destroying their value and they offered a small settlement thru our money out the pool or who knows hard to say. Def suspect at best tho and other than that nobody lol
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the only one i could find was from explosive crafting where the individual got 150k twice within a week or a month, but we cant see all of his cycle and as we all know it's pretty easy to lose 10k ped a day clicking exp4 non stop, but that was the one and only i could find from like 10+ years of data
Ferial said:
I'll counter:

index.php




The distribution is fair. Having anything other than IID would be unfair.
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not only is it fair, they have to make sure it's "fair" but in a truly random out come we would see way way more cases of same avatar hitting multiple 5 digit hof or ath in the same day but we dont so yes they're making sure it's "fair"
 
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