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The efficiency of scopes/lasers, Feb 2010

could you try the test in 1st person without using auto aim?

and maybe count skill gains too?
 
Looks like the tracker client is bugged and missed some hits. Starfinder is working on a remedy.
 
ok that effective word got me thinking.

what if there is a certain range where the gun works the best? ie say you have a long range gun and then a carbine. start blasting with the long range gun which is good up to 50 range.. by using the scop you make this range better somehow? but that is like going backwards sort of. hmm
 
slasha said:
could you try the test in 1st person without using auto aim?
Click to expand...

One run with scope/sights was with manual aim. There was no improvement in hit rate. I didnt use manual aim for the other runs to avoid human error. Plus I stood still for all the shooting and did not use a finisher.

With Attachment - Second Run (to verify 1st run)

Attachments: Hunnir + Hunnir + Jzar (fully repaired)
Skill Mod: 58%
Hunting Style: 1st person and manual aim
Software Used: Entropia Tracker Suite
Hunted Creature: Droka at hades crater

Total Hits: 1501
Total Misses: 250
Expected Hit Rate: 91.37%

Actual Hit Rate: 85.7%
 
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Did Star not do a test once where it clearly showed that due to the extra decay you got extra skills. Can't seem to find that test atm.
 
I've not tested it, but I suspect that close to the maximum range of the gun you make fewer hits without the att.

Maybe I should do some tests in pvp area where the target's not moving with diffrent distances and setups...
 
As the suit doesn´t count crit hits, this test is kind of useless, or ain´t crit hits are hits as well?
 
Franz Jaeger said:
I've not tested it, but I suspect that close to the maximum range of the gun you make fewer hits without the att.

Maybe I should do some tests in pvp area where the target's not moving with diffrent distances and setups...
Click to expand...

yep that could be a good test.
take one gun at max range without attachments and start blasting. then see how many misses etc.
repeat at closer range
and then even closer

repeat with scopes and lasers and so on.
 
GoNi said:
As the suit doesn´t count crit hits, this test is kind of useless, or ain´t crit hits are hits as well?
Click to expand...

That could be an issue. If critical hits have been ignored, and there were more critical hits with the scopes and sights attached.

But I dont know whether the suite ignored critical hits, or just did not differentiate between hits and criticals, and counted both as hits.

Hit rate = Hit ability * 1.25 + 80
Click to expand...

http://www.entropiawiki.com/Page.aspx?page=Hit+rate

Recoda

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/items/80396-efficiency-scopes-lasers-statistics-discussion.html

The above Entropedia formula nor Recoda's thread make it clear whether critical hits were counted as a hit when working out their formula's for hit rate.

That said, if critical hits were ignored by the suite. Then I'd still have expected an increase in hit rate when scopes and sights were attached in my results.

My results without attachments fitted exactly the hit rate expected, using a hit rate formula of between 80-92%. If criticals were ignored by the suite, then my hit rate without attachments would be higher than expected, which would be odd. Assuming critical hits were counted as a part of working out any hit rate formula.
 
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Something VERY important to consider , is that ( for example when i hunt drones 2-5 group of em ) when there many mobs together side by side , i miss more! :(

I always get 2 misses in a row MAX , when shooting a single mob, but when they are side by side i tend to have 2-4 misses together.

Seems that the "mob's boxes" are covering each other and i tend to miss more ( at least that's my interpretation) :)

I used btw Maxed h21+105 today and had a 90.84% Hit rate after 4258 shots.


Hope those info help your research.

Demonikos :tiphat:

PS- H21 is maxed and i don't use scopes or laser on it
 
over a long period it's nice to see Legion hitting in the correct/logical direction :laugh:

mark the word "effective"! if it were only to influence range, the support would not have said effective. there's another piece of puzzle we have not thought about - the effective range, so what is it? something that makes us hit more when target is close and less when full range? :rolleyes:

I definitely would not like the truth to be simply extra 1m gained for those thousands spent in decay...

anyhow, a mouse told me there will be official information about this matter.... :whistle:


J.
 
Seems that the "mob's boxes" are covering each other and i tend to miss more ( at least that's my interpretation)
Click to expand...
good guess. That's my take on it too when there's more than one mob. That's why it's always best, in my opinion, to tag them from a distance and only draw one at a time to you... or maybe try that profession no one ever uses - decoys.

I think melee may hit more often than guns since range is lower, but I guess that's a test for another thread ;)
 
Lugzan said:
anyhow, a mouse told me there will be official information about this matter.... :whistle:


J.
Click to expand...

Cool. Is that a definite? Because I read a thread from 2005 where stryker said MindArk will soon tell us the effect of scope and sights :)
 
aboo said:
Are you referring to critical hits?
Click to expand...

Re start the client .. and the crit bug will be fixed.. as well as "missing lines" bug...


More features are avalible as well..

(interresting thread)
 
Starfinder said:
Re start the client .. and the crit bug will be fixed.. as well as "missing lines" bug...


More features are avalible as well..

(interresting thread)
Click to expand...

Thx for the info Starfinder, I'll run some test with the updated client.
 
Test 2 - New Client (shows crits, missed lines fixed)

Without Attachment - First Run

Attachments: None
Hunting Style: 1st person and manual aim
Software Used: Entropia Tracker Suite
Hunted Creature: Formidon

Total Hits: 1488
Total Misses: 233
Total Critical Hits: 24
Expected Hit Rate: 87.2%

Actual Hit Rate: 86.4%

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

With Attachment - First Run

Attachments: Hunnir + Hunnir + Jzar (fully repaired)
Hunting Style: 1st person and manual aim
Software Used: Entropia Tracker Suite
Hunted Creature: Formidon

Total Hits: 1517
Total Misses: 239
Total Critical Hits: 19
Expected Hit Rate: 91.37%

Actual Hit Rate: 86.38%

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conclusion

Test 2 was done with the new client, which recorded critical hits and has apparantly fixed the missed data lines bug.

The data from Test 2 indicates no improvement in hit rate when scopes and sights are attached. Therefore it supports the findings of Test 1 in this respect.

Note: Client did not reset critical hits for the 2nd run when scope/sights were added. It carried on counting from 24. Therefore the screenshot with 43 critical hits is not significant. The real number was 19.
 
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Update: Client did not reset critical hits for the 2nd run when scope/sights were added. It carried on counting from 24. Therefore the screenshot with 43 critical hits is not significant. The real number was 19.
 
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Question: Why doesn't anyone do the tests with L weapons with SIB? :scratch2:
 
Did a test with maxed KorssH400L, 250 ped ammo without attachments and 250 with lasers and scope. Both times had ~90% hit rate. I have no screenies to prove it, just did the test for my self but maybe i repeat it and post some.

 
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This may be blatantly obvious, but in the real world, people are less accurate firing weapons at greater ranges. For example, with a decent rifle, using an iron sight, I can hit a 50m target with about 95% accuracy, but can only hit a 300m target with about 45% accuracy. However, by adding a scope, my hitrate increases significantly on the 300m target, while decreasing slightly (EDIT: on moving targets) on the 50m target. Perhaps scopes and sights have the same effect ingame? That would certainly fall in line with the "effective range" comment.

If so, scopes and sights might be best served used only on tagging weapons...
 
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All I want to know:
Get I faster Skillpoints whit Scopes and Laser or not or have it other positive things?

I use them on my M&L35 all the time.
On my CB26 UL I don´t use them. But I´m not sure it´s better whitout.:scratch2::scratch2::scratch2: Perhaps I should start to use one Jzar Scope and two Gargul Laser on my CB. Cost my only 1.03% more.:confused:
 
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Ihavent read all posts but doesnt scopes/laser sights improve your skillgain when they are attatched? So u skill a little bit faster with scopes/sights. Or am i wrong? :confused:
 
ever since this came out i wondered if the skill modification affected skills not shown in hitrate and crits, ie rasing minimum damage and so increasing average damage.

i have done some sampling using an Odin with and without attachments. Odin used as its the only laser i have currently and i have lower skills in laser, so should see a greater change by applying attachments (Jzar+2xHunnir).

I have also stripped out misses and crits as these are already covered.

the results:

Code: 
[U][B]Weapon     average damage[/B][/U]
Odin w/o    44.87
Odin w/o    44.3
Odin with   44.75	
Odin with   43.79 *
Odin with   45.19 *

av w/o      44.585
av with     44.576

so theres nothing changing in the average damage either. with the evidence that hit and crits arent affected either, scopes and sights are a complete con and i feel MA have deceived us.
 
hey aridash, as concerns avg damage. My results were as follows,

Without Attachment (no crits counted)

57.8
58.4

With Attachment (no crits counted

57.7
58.1
57.7

Without Attachment (crits counted)

59.2

With Attachment (crits counted

59.37
Click to expand...

I do not think anything indicates that scopes/sights help improve damage.
 
Get I faster Skillpoints whit Scopes and Laser or not or have it other positive things?
Click to expand...

Hmm. That could be an interesting test, but one I doubt I will do. I did check my handgun/lwt gains per run, and nothing was out of the ordinary when scopes/sights were attached. My personal guess would be they do not.
 
aridash said:
with the evidence that hit and crits arent affected either, scopes and sights are a complete con and i feel MA have deceived us.
Click to expand...

To me it makes perfect sense why MA never told us what scopes and sights effected.

They appear to effect range if anything, and MA may have assumed if they told us that they would lose a chunk of decay and possible a good deal of good will.
 
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aboo said:
They appear to effect range if anything, and MA may have assumed if they told us that they would lose a chunk of decay and possible a good deal of good will.
Click to expand...

the thing is, they dont perceptably change the range either. even if it *did* change range, who notices 1m? elevation makes more impact than that. skill modification should mean all related skills, it clearely doesnt.

i feel like im being robbed every time i log on now, to the effect i log on less and less. what else isnt as it seems, or deliberatly deceives?
 
rastamannen said:
Ihavent read all posts but doesnt scopes/laser sights improve your skillgain when they are attatched? So u skill a little bit faster with scopes/sights. Or am i wrong? :confused:
Click to expand...

Star showed in a post in the past that attachments like scopes/lasers on weapons will give more or bigger skillgains.
I do not think that has changed.

Cheers
Siam
 
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