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News: The Future of Mayhem: Vendor Changes

Does L exceptional mayhem weapon price will be adjusted ( cheaper ) as the token gathering difficulty is greatly increased ?
 
mindark just confirmed that whenever there is a huge balance error where players can take advantage over other players or the system that players should not hesitate and just go for it - the vast fuckup of ressource mayhem and killing the effort of thousands of players saving regular mayhem totkens for years just has entered the final reward stage - is mindark aware that they are about to force the hand of players sitting on devalued savings to have to spent them with no effort made to repair the damge done to those savings first hand ? if now those tokens go into trading before players even know what they can buy for them its like giving rich players an opportunity to take advantage of poor players all over again
 
image zz said:
So, for one month - 10-100 players are going to gather Tokens and Rares ...and then camp the vendor for the hopes their internet is faster than the rest and the unlucky guys get to pull the regular nanos lol....

I have Rares and Tokens for sale if anyone is interested
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I guess this is the question. It is hard to judge the situation until we see how that final re-stock will look like really.
 
Terminator said:
As I understand, you still have 2 options :
1 - "In addition to this, we will also provide a final restock of some unlimited items"
2 - We will be allowed to sell our tokens during 4 weeks, and buy an UL weapons from others.
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Maybe given that it is a window, the price will be VERY competitive... But you can't tell me there aren't people who could pull a great deal with their own stack..
Maybe they just need Rare tokens, so their price will be too high?

John B Knight said:
mindark just confirmed that whenever there is a huge balance error where players can take advantage over other players or the system that players should not hesitate and just go for it - the vast fuckup of ressource mayhem and killing the effort of thousands of players saving regular mayhem totkens for years just has entered the final reward stage - is mindark aware that they are about to force the hand of players sitting on devalued savings to have to spent them with no effort made to repair the damge done to those savings first hand ? if now those tokens go into trading before players even know what they can buy for them its like giving rich players an opportunity to take advantage of poor players all over again
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Since I believe I was cheated out of a placement token, and apparently nothing was done about that and they wouldn't even publish the results, I have never come close to getting a rare and I believe if you had one (including placement tokens) you had MORE chance of getting another than someone getting a new one. So yeah take advantage and know the punishment will not matter.
 
John B Knight said:
mindark just confirmed that whenever there is a huge balance error where players can take advantage over other players or the system that players should not hesitate and just go for it - the vast fuckup of ressource mayhem and killing the effort of thousands of players saving regular mayhem totkens for years just has entered the final reward stage - is mindark aware that they are about to force the hand of players sitting on devalued savings to have to spent them with no effort made to repair the damge done to those savings first hand ? if now those tokens go into trading before players even know what they can buy for them its like giving rich players an opportunity to take advantage of poor players all over again
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Their tokens will enter the same tradeable pool of tokens as RM Tokens 🤷‍♂️

However, the risk/possibility is also that the final UL re-stocks will be small, and those holding Tokens will be left holding the bag.
 
Mindark did not understand why the game went out of Balance.

This is not a sorry, this is another flood of more items

Delete this vendor
 
The big question is: will the new supply have the same amount of tokens needed to make a pull as last time or as listed now, or will it change again?
 
Will the "last" UL restock take in consideration the unused RARE tokens still arround?
 
John B Knight said:
mindark just confirmed that whenever there is a huge balance error where players can take advantage over other players or the system that players should not hesitate and just go for it - the vast fuckup of ressource mayhem and killing the effort of thousands of players saving regular mayhem totkens for years just has entered the final reward stage - is mindark aware that they are about to force the hand of players sitting on devalued savings to have to spent them with no effort made to repair the damge done to those savings first hand ? if now those tokens go into trading before players even know what they can buy for them its like giving rich players an opportunity to take advantage of poor players all over again
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Just the usual, I had hopes to return but I hardly ever seen abusers get punished.(Not saying it's the case)
This will make people with already UNL weapons farm out for more, leaving a gap

The game is at a state either you put a strong and heavy amount into the game or you are doomed because the market is non existing.

People will get demotivated and leave. Retention rate will be low, prove me wrong
 
Unless these weapons are already tier 10 from the vendor it seems pretty messed up that people that have grinded years for a UL are suddenly left out in the cold unless they want to buy the tokens from everyone that took full advantage of RM.
 
Person 1 has done normal Mayhem for 4 years and has 150K tokens.

Person 2 has grinded RM 1 + 2 for 8 weeks and has 700K tokens.

If person 2 decides to sell his Mtokens and let them enter the tradeable Token market - What do you think Person 1
will get for his tokens if he tries to sell them?
 
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Mike Kaffeslukarn Morazi said:
Person 1 has done normal Mayhem for 4 years and has 150K tokens.

Person 2 has grinded RM 1 + 2 for 8 weeks and has 700K tokens tokens.

If person 2 decides to sell his Mtokens and let them enter the tradeable Token market - What do you think Person 1
will get for his tokens if he tries to sell them?
Click to expand...

15 of 70 of what Person 2.
 
Please go ahead with this plan but please put 5,000 PED of universal ammo on the vendors for 1 Rare Token during the period tokens are tradable. Simultaneously DON'T put any universal ammo up for regular Mayhem Tokens or for any other "payment" option related to Mayhem. ONLY Rare Tokens should provide an ammo "cash out" option.

Also, please be sure that the "vendor restocks" happen AFTER the token trading period is over and that if any UL token prices are going to change for the restock period that those changes are published to the vendors BEFORE the token trading period begins.

Many of the holders of Rare Tokens just want to "cash out" the value of those tokens to make up for losses they suffered during mayhem. I think Mind Ark should let them do that directly. This will greatly diminish the number of extra Rare Tokens floating around without forcing extra UL items (or any items) into the game. This will leave the remaining Rare Tokens in the hands of the yearning masses who would never cash in a Rare Token for any amount of PED and are just hoping to "earn" just 1 great addition to their otherwise mediocre arsenal.

Finally, if you actually want a transition away from UL weapons to more (L) weapon use, then those (L) weapons should reliably give higher loot returns than their UL counterparts. At that point they would actually be worth using and at least some hunters would use them exclusively. Right now most UL weapons top out at 94% or so efficiency, unfortunately there is one 97.2% UL weapon. At least for mayhem weapons it should be changed so that all the (L) weapons have a bit more efficiency. Maybe 10 or 20% of the distance to 100%. e.g: for A&P Series Mayhem LP-120, Perfected (100 - 95)*20 = 1% higher for A&P Series Mayhem LP-120, Perfected(L) or A&P Series Mayhem BC-80, Augmented at 88% becomes A&P Series Mayhem BC-80, Augmented(L) at 90.4%. This will give a real and meaningful incentive for (L) item use. (And frankly I think the concern of (L) vs UL is a separate debate from "too many mayhem tokens". No matter WHAT reward is given for mayhem tokens they will have to have a high value and may flood the economy. Avoiding that is very easy by directly giving the high end players what they want: More ammo cycle) Additional ammo will NOT flood the economy and on top of that as we learned when it was introduced universal ammo has a "0 accounting value" so it's kind of a zero sum gain by one viewpoint. POSSIBLY this may depress loot returns or unbalance something in the loot equation for a short time, but the loot return cycle has been the most resilient and long lasting mechanism in an RCE game for over 20 years. I think the loot cycle can handle it and was built to handle it. (To avoid "single first day" problems, ammo option could restock 2 per day or some such value and just continue until people stop emptying it over say 1 week)
 
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No announcement of what items will be restocked, how many will be restocked, if the prices will remain the same. How is that token trade period supposed to work, we are all just in the dark? Everyone's tokens who wants to sell will be devalued because of massive uncertainty?

Also, L economy sucks for those who want to grind a lot. Now you either pay up for unlimited items that have a mostly frozen number of availability, or you use L and lose all potential markup paying for L items. You can't even grind and pay over time to eventually get an unlimited item, now you have to save up 100 or 200k peds or more to get the item you want. There's a big difference there. Mayhem revolved around unlimited rewards, not L bps ffs. With L you have no sense of building your character, nothing accomplished except skill gain to use the next L weapon. Resource Mayhem was the primary cause of too many tokens/items, and that was easily changed to decrease the flow. RM was really 90% of the problem. Now you've created gatekeeping like in the past where a small number of players with money have the unlimited weapons to farm resources with no markup cost, and the rest of you schmucks can suffer with no hope in sight except taking a second job to buy your way in.

I feel demotivated.
 
Would be good for them to specify what will actually be restocked. (Sounded like not everything will be). Would really suck for people buying a bunch of tokens to find out the item they were looking to get isn't even restocked.

Also, I'm hoping these new exceptional items are tradable unlike daily mission L gear. This move they are making with L stuff needs to be handled carefully to not have the markups be psychotic too.

Markup is not included in loot, so if these guns have nice eff but stupid markup they won't be worth shit for the economy since few would use them beyond the handful that are actually able to make/acquire them.
 
  1. Between 29th April and 27th May, tokens will temporarily be made tradeable. This will allow a grace period for players to offload/buy up tokens if they feel it is in their best interest with the changes going forward
  2. In the week directly following the end of this period, we will post a notice detailing the days and times when vendor restocking will take place, accounting for players of different timezones.

MA, to avoid more drama, maybe it's wiser to inform Players about what items will be restocked BEFORE we enter in the "trade period" ?

Or just make these tokens tradeable for ever. ;)
 
Xen said:
Also, L economy sucks for those who want to grind a lot.

I feel demotivated.
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Not exceptional L items with extenders they can last over 1M cycle.
Considering mayhem will require active play only that will last a lot longer than 24/7 macro usage.
The new meta now for people who dont already have an UL item will be to use L exceptional items until can either drop good UL item in loot or farm enough MU to buy an UL item.
Of course nothing stopping them except their wallet to buy an ul item right now. Back when loot 2.0 weapons were at its peak I bought a loot 2.0 weapon for 175k in hopes of grinding enough in mayhem to then take out another item to upgrade or sell it. I was never lucky enough with rare tokens so I missed my chance to get a weapon while prices were high.

At least now maybe I can get some of my investment back if I sell it.

Farming MU that is sustainable is the way to go longterm. They just need to find the right balance longterm and short term.
 
I feel I must ask this one question. I see it says once a vendor restock of UL items is depleted it will be removed and not restocked. Will ANY new UL items be added in the future?

It seems everyone is assuming there will never be new UL added but the announcement didn't say that so I'm looking for clarification.
 
Raven Lunchbox said:
I feel I must ask this one question. I see it says once a vendor restock of UL items is depleted it will be removed and not restocked. Will ANY new UL items be added in the future?

It seems everyone is assuming there will never be new UL added but the announcement didn't say that so I'm looking for clarification.
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Good question.

Therefore, our plan is to remove UL items entirely from the vendor once stock is depleted, replacing them with exceptional, limited versions, and craftable exceptional limited versions that consume items from the economy.

Not definitive, but doesn't look good.
 
Xen said:
Good question.

Therefore, our plan is to remove UL items entirely from the vendor once stock is depleted, replacing them with exceptional, limited versions, and craftable exceptional limited versions that consume items from the economy.

Not definitive, but doesn't look good.
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Yeah, plans can change. I think mayhem tokens and rare tokens should continue to be tradeable forever after all UL items have been depleted. Let the market decide their value. It's a gamble to buy but it's also a gamble not to sell. Let players decide what they want to do and not have stuck "potential MU" in hopes of getting an UL stock in the future.
 
Raven Lunchbox said:
I think it is only right for them to clarify if new UL items will be added in the future.
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Yes, if any new UL items will be added to the mayhem vendor in the future. This needs to be 100% clarified and with a guarantee that if it won't then it really won't. A "We reserve the right to change it however we see fit based on economy and player feedback" won't cut it.

I think there's still a place for UL items in the vendor, but only the bare "base" item (maybe even weaker than base) with upgrade path up to perfected or even more if possible. Then require to do long missions with several steps requiring other resources and kills etc. So it can stimulate economy over long term..
 
We understand that there are a lot of questions, given the impact of this change.

While we cannot reply to all of them, we intend to follow up with answers to some questions we can respond to before the end of the week.
 
Ludvig|MindArk said:
We understand that there are a lot of questions, given the impact of this change.

While we cannot reply to all of them, we intend to follow up with answers to some questions we can respond to before the end of the week.
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We look forward for the latest chatgpt premium version answers look like.
 
If you read between the lines:

Quoting from OP:

"In short, the faucet of tokens into the economy has been increased, participation in the format has also been very high, and the vendor has remained primarily used for the purpose of obtaining high-end UL items. This combined with expectations for restocks of these items has created a cycle which brings UL items into the game at an unsustainable rate - and frustration from players expecting and waiting for said items to be stocked.

Therefore, our plan is to remove UL items entirely from the vendor once stock is depleted, replacing them with exceptional, limited versions, and craftable exceptional limited versions that consume items from the economy. These “exceptional” style items provide long lasting items, but items that will ultimately expire with use. We believe that this still provides meaningful incentive for many players to participate, whilst ensuring UL items do not become more overabundant."

Think that's pretty obvious that they don't intend to restock with UL anymore, at least in the mayhem vendor format. They are giving one last opportunity basically for players who have some tokens left over to buy an UL item if they can afford to, and that's it. I don't think it is surprising to anyone that the mayhem vendor format has outlived its shelf life.
 
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