the new deer Mall

[shoti]

Well today, I went to the MA site to look up info about the new oxford Shops.

I found a reply, telling me I am offered 2 options for our investment:

1. I can opt for the ped value that we paid for it.

- because i was passed the deed and no ped exchange was in the deal - the value of the shop is worth zero. (However, from our log files we can see that you received the Estate Deed in a private trade 2009-07-16 where nothing was exchanged in return.) - i passed the deed to Silva for 30 minutes -

I have been running the shop since 31st July 2006 https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/selling/33096-new-oxford-01-shop-opening-party.html

2, Or I can take the new Deer shop 02 - which is a 60 item point shop.

- 60% smaller (our shop was 180 points before and one of if not the most valued shop in this game - lowest rent highest item count shop in the game and that's why we purchased it).

Can anyone help i am confused over which option to take 1 we get nothing for the 15,000 + peds or 2 we get a tiny shop worth a fraction of the investment or value of it.

I am deeply concerned about this - yes a tad frustrated, but also concerned for other investors,



Everyone in this game that knows me - knows I ran that shop with dolores for almost 4 years, we put 1000's of hours into it & now we are offered zero peds or a tiny shop.

I'm lost for words just now. I don't want to put any dampers on recent events such as Buzz's Cp purchase - Good luck to him, Ive been around about the same time as Buzz & wish him well..... But I am overwhelmed with my outcome.

I will make a more detailed thread on it soon. I do hope its just a miss understanding, so I wont add any more just now.

Moonfish

Land,shop,apartaments,estates etc. owners are that kind of players who trusted MA greatly much more than others (they spend real money for something worth 0.00 according to EULA ). What MA is doing ? Are they lost their minds ? If they are messing with so serious participants and make hard try for their trust to MA as company what can expect some gray,daily,citizen/player.

I am seriously shocked, and scared

 

[Tussi]

Sorry to hear this, but instead of feeling like this:

I am seriously shocked, and scared

I must admit i'm not really surprised by this offer from support... i have entered a state of I don't care anymore.

Gratz to MA for another PR desaster.

Tussi

 

[chevrons]

As a disinterested observer I can try to help Marco in his further considerations of how to solve this.

The equitable solution would be for MA to offer a choice between receiving the value of the shop just before V10, or of accepting another shop with the same relative value to other shops as the old shop had at that time. Whether a shop-owner paid twice the market value, half the market value, or even nothing, three years before is absolutely irrelevant; it's the value just before V10 which must be considered.

Now obviously MA can't do seem to do that, because they can't judge the shop values just before V10 (or at the present time either for that matter).

So they have to come up with a practical solution, even if that is more generous, which appears to be to offer a shop of the same size, even if that makes it relatively more valuable than the old one was.

A shop item count can easily be adjusted; it's just a value in a database column. That's what MA need to do, and then any arguments about location can be taken further.

 

[Brooklyn]

I think the best way to resolve this is for al the shopowners to either use the group on EF or start another group with the express purpose of defining and petitoning for a fair, equal, and meaningful compensation package that reflects a serious commitment not only to the shop owners but to the future economy of the of FPC.

 

[juicy001]

gl trance hope your shope is a better investment than my pet skills , hope MA wont let ya down and add the missing item points back ... or may they offer ya just discount for upgrading yours

 

[SpikeBlack]

You just need Marco to go into the MA office and kick some arse

 

[TheGreatest]

Thankyou for your post Moonfish (and trance!). I feel for you and your plight.
I hope you can find some consolation in the fact that the ordeal you've been put through has solidified in a few minds that investment in EU is not a safe investment.

I have deposited, but I don't see why I should do so again, particularly not to buy anything that is almost entirely perceived value (ie: low TT high MV) and thus, zero liability to MA, allowing them to put their hands up and say "ah well, not our fault, here's your 0.1 US cents back".

 

[Calin]

MA/FPC -

Stop screwing with peoples money (and time)!
Make up for your mistakes even if it costs you a little!

Do these 2 things and you may survive as a company. You NEED to rebuild some level of TRUST with your playerbase.

I personally haven't been shafted for a large sum (haven't had enough reason to trust the company with "investment" levels of money), but I've seen a lot of others get screwed and I'm really getting sick of it, as I know many others are as well.

Please get your shit together! I love the game, but it is becoming a love/hate relationship. I would like to be able to recommend EU to my friends and get them involved, but I can't do that the way things stand. I can only recommend things I trust because I don't want my friends to get screwed over.

I'll make you a deal... You get your act together and I'll recruit 5 friends into EU. (I'll make it 10 if you also let me get a top 5 ATH )

- Calin

 

[Silva Mak]

I think it is terrible that the shop owners have been treated like this. There is no reason why people with 180 item points for their shop could not still have that. Ok so the rent now is lower, why can't MA charge the old rent and cough up the correct original number of item points? Can't see it making much difference to them really.
It is sad to see such a stunningly beautiful place crumble due to lack of care from the makers for their customers, as that is really what we are. I was always brought up with the 'customer is always right' attitude and thus when I had a silk painting business I always tried to give the best possible service. You just don't get that much these days, not even in virtual it seems!

shame on you MA

 

[safara]

I don't understand.

You have a shop that gives you the ability to sell 180 items at a time.

After a few VU's and stuff in which they take your shop away for months, they then give you one back that gives you the ability to only sell 60 items at once.

That is like Buzz buying CP with 4 domes - after a few VU's it only has one dome now, or NEVERDIE suddenly only having 7 Domes on CND.

This has got to be a mistake surely

I do sincerely hope that once they come back from their holidays this will all be sorted out and the shop owners compensated for the months of disruption they have had to endure to the businesses.

 

[Einstein]

MA MA MA MA or FPC FPC FPC FPC

When will you learn?

Maybe we have to put some peds together and buy them a little book:
"How to treat your customers with respect 101"

This is really sad

When economy class is overbooked in a plane, people have to sit with the luggage, they get upgraded to business or first class.

I wish MA/FPC would think the same.

 

[trance]

Ok so the rent now is lower,

shame on you MA

the rent is 5 ped less as it was in VU9.4, about 50 item points less, we just get one year tax free (12x10 ped at my shop) for all the pain.

 

[aia]

Again, I think the original problem is that the people who designed the mall didn't realize there were two categories of shops under the deer (cellar shops and cave sheds).

 

[xentric]

This even has a "fanboi" like me questioning if my trust in MA is misplaced..

 

[vumba]

MA stop screwing with the people who feed you and pay your bills every month.....................

 

[Ransom Hastings]

Just my humble opinion, but that deer is uglier than a bucket of smashed assholes. I'm gonna send MA a copy of "Virtual Architecture for Dummies"
Plus the bonus that the shops are tiny. Ouch. Who gets the penthouse with the window looking out the deer's butt? Actually I really feel bad for you folks who got screwed.

 

[MindStar9]

It just seems to get worse ... I really feel for the shop owners. Despite the tax-free year (or whatever the consolation is), these shops represented a business for these people, and removing item points is just not acceptable. Paying 5 ped less a month on rent doesn't make up for the lost item points that could be items displayed and sold. A free year of (whatever) is a temporary compensation for an ongoing business that had a far better marketable environment than is presently available. It meant less restocking of inventory, and more available to the general public at one time.

The list is getting longer!

 

[Lavawalker]

I fear if they keep this up and the poor methodology used for event reward distribution "in an event period", there will not be too many left confident enough to contribute to significant economic activity on Planet Calypso.

Hopefully they get their act together before the 300k usd investment into CP goes for an EPIC flop as far as recouping the investment outlay in a sensible timeframe.

From little things big things grow MA & FPC.

The small fish (clients, business operators, traders, hunters, crafters, miners, entertainment enthausiasts) are the ones your wanting to maintain to a high degree.

A lot of a little generally will add up to a lot more than a little of a lot.

You know, that strange term they use in the real world - Social Networking !

Strange creatures these MindArk based lifeforms are indeed.

 

[Ace Wiseshadow]

Sorry to hear about this, good luck to moonfish, trance, and all in getting their shops back to the way they were. seems unfair to decrease shop item points.

If its a balancing issue as was said they could increase all shop sizes to keep them similar.

Thanks,

Ace Wiseshadow.

 

[olivia888]

so sad

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-oxford-01-shop-opening-party.html#post377529

This proves Moonfish owned the shop!
By your logic, every time someone lends an article of clothing, a piece of armor or a weapon, upon its return the market value/mark-up would be lowered!

I hope that Moonfish gets the items limit restored, or gets a shop keeper.

They say there is no such thing as bad advertisement, but I disagree. I have seen the effects - players are changing their mind about investing and talking about leaving...and many are leaving.

I still want to believe in the future of Calypso...

 

[trance]

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-oxford-01-shop-opening-party.html#post377529

This proves Moonfish owned the shop!
By your logic, every time someone lends an article of clothing, a piece of armor or a weapon, upon its return the market value/mark-up would be lowered!

I hope that Moonfish gets the items limit restored, or gets a shop keeper.

They say there is no such thing as bad advertisement, but I disagree. I have seen the effects - players are changing their mind about investing and talking about leaving...and many are leaving.

I still want to believe in the future of Calypso...

120 items less would be a lot shop keepers. Only one help not much. each keeper use 6 item points and give then 20 item points. And, there are more deer mall shop owners damaged by MA ! not only moonfish and me. we really will have our shop deed back and all item points in same stats as it was before vu9.4. Moonfish shop = 180 items / Trance make up = 150 items

 

[James Clayton]

Trance, I can understand your frustration completely, I myself have been out of bussiness for over 4 months now with no idea on when my business as a hairdresser and beaution will restart. Xmas for a beautician

But MA is not to blame, FPC is, and Marco is the boss of FPC now. As the boss of FPC Marco can simply tell MA to change the perameter that controls item points for your shop.

There is no excuse for what has happened to you. You paid for a shop with 150 item points, period. Marco/FPC owes you 150 item points nothing less.

Wait and see, if Marco doesn't smarten up and fast mabe we should move all the styling and beauty services to Next Island and give David Post who is in charge of the the company that ownes that world a chance at our investements and deposits.

Then mabe Marco/FPC will start to understand that we are the customers, and we pay his salery, and that it is what we want, not what he wants, that is important, and that withought us he is gona be in the unemployment line.

There are other planets getting ready to open, thats called compition and I think Marco is about to get a crash corse on customer satisfaction and the consequences of not taking his customers wants seriously and treating us with disreguard.

 

[Kahr]

shame on you FPC. This is beyond forgivable, there are no excuse at all. You have customers that at some point bought a deed with a certain item limit, Then you cant just change it... altho it probably says so in the eula somewhere.
It serves no purpose at all, the old shops worked fin with that amount of items, so why shouldnt they with the new super duper gfx engine

 

[Bobbins]

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-oxford-01-shop-opening-party.html#post377529

This proves Moonfish owned the shop!
By your logic, every time someone lends an article of clothing, a piece of armor or a weapon, upon its return the market value/mark-up would be lowered!

I hope that Moonfish gets the items limit restored, or gets a shop keeper.

They say there is no such thing as bad advertisement, but I disagree. I have seen the effects - players are changing their mind about investing and talking about leaving...and many are leaving.

I still want to believe in the future of Calypso...

MA/FPC or who ever is not disputing that moonfish owned a shop they are saying its not got any ped value ! i.e. he got it for nothing , even if that was true he is STILL entitled to the same item count he had before .

 

[Moonfish]

To summarize this thread

Here is a brief summary of events leading up to the current situation

Known Issues VU 8.9 - 7th Feb 2007
Thorkells Cave shops are auctioned and are closed after they are sold due to bugs and are never fixed - possibly a design bug - players are eventually offered they peds back and offered 1st choice when the shops are put right - they are never fixed. Link here

Pre VU10.2
New Oxford is never quite finished, well its a ghost town for years on end. Simple things to give it life, like storage or a few crafting terminals are never added - The future of New Oxford never happens.

VU10.2
New Oxford Mall was removed. It seems the flow of information resulted in it being deleted or simply forgotten about.
Many things are missing and we are told things across the game are to be implemented over time

27/10/09
Marco behrmann - sends shop owners emails and apologizes for the mess up & offers to buy back the shops and offer a choice of a new shop or the buy back amount along with 1 years free rent (240 ped).

This seems positive, until you find out that the amount the shop is worth is dependant on the last amount it was traded for - traded being passed to & from an avatar or traded in auction.

So if you traded the shop for an item say 100 papalon 50 mann pistols and 6 sets of Vigi, your shop would be worth the ped value of those - this might amount to 1000 peds. The simplistic offer to replace the shops for the last trade could mean a UBer item valued at 30K - with a tt on 1000 ped - values the trade at 1000 ped. This works in the TT machine - but we didn't TT our shops - they had value different shops different sizes different values - some worth 15K some worth 30K.

I see a failure in the flow of information in this transition to create the New 'New Oxford Shops' The simplification seems to be taken from the Thorkells Cave shops - these shop I don't think in the majority were traded because they were bugged and never fixed and so it is easy to offer the ped purchase to those owners in return for the deed - but the other other shops that have been in use are different and will of been traded or moved around many times - they have a different value. It may seem hard to put a value on them pre the latest up-date, but its not that difficult.

I look forward to hearing from marco & support and for them to realize that there is a distinction between the 2 sets of shops - I feel for the Thorkells Cave shop owners they have been messed about since 7th Feb 2007.

The New Shops / offered
The new shops offered in New Oxford to the shop owners have item counts well below some of the original shops - eg - i have been offered 55 item points for my 180 - this is nothing near what I originally had - 3 shops wouldnt add up to the same points.

We would like a fare and just outcome to the problem, wouldnt you - compensation is another thing - I think shops need to be addressed case by case - looks like there are 23 new shops, i presume there are 23 shop owners who are looking for a soln and a fare outcome.

I would also like to grattzzz Buzz Lightyear on his venture and wish him well.

This is a new year for us all, lets try to make it a positive one.
Moonfish

 

[safara]

So far we have heard from a couple of New Oxford Shop Owners...

Is there a list of the prior VU10 shops and owners and what their shops were allowed to sell items wise?

And then we can compare this with what they have now.

Moon - you had a nice graphic I think at some point of what shops were where under the deer, you still have this ?

 

[Moonfish]

Old List of shop owners in New oxford

this list is taken from Entropia directory - http://www.entropiadirectory.com/wiki/New_Oxford/shops

Hjorten Building Cellars

* D06080401 - Shop 01 - Block A - Moonfish
* D07020126 - Shop 02 - Block B - Honey Kitten Little
* D07020120 - Shop 03 - Block B - Trance - MAKE-UP studio
* D07020121 - Shop 04 - Block D - Miss Lady Luck
* D07020122 - Shop 05 - Block B - Tarran Gos Hawk
* D07020123 - Shop 06 - Block B - Monique Mon Cauldron
* D07020124 - Shop 07 - Block D - Monique Mon Cauldron
* D06122404 - Shop 08 - Block C - Spods Discount Store

Thorkell's Tomb shops closed

22nd February 2007
Due to a "design error" in the Thorkell's Tomb area, all of the shops in this location have now been closed. MindArk is currently working to resolve the problem, and the shops will be reopened sometime in the future

* D07020301 - Lot #01 - Lady Nadie Hawk - Temporarily moved to Billton Towers, Tower 3, Apartment 5E
* D07020302 - Lot #02 - Lady Nadie Hawk - Temporarily moved to Billton Towers, Tower 3, Apartment 5E
* D07020303 - Shop #01 - Robin Solaris Hat
* D07020304 - Shop #02 - Gloria GoNi Nicestyle
* D07020305 - Shop #05 - Tryggve wolf Nordarson
* D07020306 - Shop #07 - Richard Smith Grandux
* D07020307 - Shop #09 - Archie Clipper Moonsail
* D07020308 - Shop #10 - Maureen Twister Twist
* D07020309 - Shop #11 - Antonio Amar Mar - Temporarily moved to TI City, Gold Building, Apartment 5B

 

[Brooklyn]

There is hope and precident for what I consider decent meaningful game/sales improving compensation.

Another eg I got a shopkeeper from MA as gift(full tt,6k market value) as they were late on fixing a bug that took them 1-2 years.

Keep the faith / keep the pressure

​

 

[Johned]

Wow - I would have really expected Marco to reply to this thread at some point other than the deleted post he misatakenl posted.

I feel for all of you, at one time I was looking at buying a small shop (not in the malls) or a booth and am glad I decided to not do that.

Really a shame how this has played out.

 

[Tussi]

But MA is not to blame, FPC is, and Marco is the boss of FPC now. As the boss of FPC Marco can simply tell MA to change the perameter that controls item points for your shop.

Nonsense.

For all practical uses regarding bugs (etc.): MA is to blame.
It's their platform, their code, their support, their decisions.

FPC was just spun off MA to create a smokescreen.

Tussi