The Ultimate Trading Guide

gmccumskey

Alpha
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Posts
589
Location
Johannesburg, South Africa
Society
Federation of Free Wanderers
Avatar Name
Michael Nexus Andrews
There are a lot of posts in the forums on trading, but I noticed a serious lack of posts in helping newbies get themselves setup as traders in Entropia. I thought a nice post in the N00bs Corner might help out aspiring merchants :D

Why get involved in trading?

To me, trading is the only aspect of Entropia Univers (EU) that does not rely to a large degree on luck, and also is not something you have to wait forever for until your skills get up to do. As such, it is one of the few things you can do when starting out to help bring in those much needed PED.

I, as of yet, have not paid a single dime into EU, and am still having loads of fun. I can thank trading as the reason for this.

What do you need to be a trader?

First off, lets discuss the type of person best suited for trading. If you the kind of person who has moved from Quake, or some other high action game, trading might not be your best past time in EU. Trading is very sedate. In fact, to be brutely honest, it can get down right boring. So the most important characteristic a player should have is patience ... in bucket loads.

As a trader, you can spend a lot of time, doing next to nothing. But when it pays, it can, if you are well prepared, pay big. And this is what the rest of this thread is for, to help you get prepared.

The tools you can get to help out, unlike the other disciplines, are not made available to you by Mind Ark in game. The tool in question is called PEAss, or Project Entropia Assistant. The reason this tool is good is because it can help give you access to vital information to use as a trader in EU, in game, saving you a lot of hassle. If you go to the PEAss site, there you can download the software. Essentially what it does is, if you have the program loaded and running in the background before you start up EU, give you an extra toolbar in EU with some VERY useful features, which we'll discuss in a sec.

Also, as a trader, you need level-headedness, and the ability to make an informed compromise.

So, lets get making money

Well, not so hasty my young apprentices. Lets make sure we have all our ducks in a row first. We got PEAss, which we'll discuss how to use to its full effect a bit later, we willing to stand around for a while .... Oh Shizzen. We need goods don't we.

Acquiring your goods to sell

Well, when you first start EU, the only goods you can get relatively cheaply, is to sweat. That is, find creatures and click on them once to get your concentration, then again to try and pull sweat from them. You can then, when you've collected enough sweat, try to sell it off.

One good method that might work as well when you starting out, is if you happen to get yourself a mentor, then you might be able to strike up a deal with your mentor that goes something like this (read carefully, you do not want to anger your mentor, this is not a scam method or begging, as you will see):

  • Ask your mentor if there any items that they might loot that they tt often, i.e. dispose of in the trade terminal (tt)
  • Find out from them, in the most gratifying way possible, if they would be willing to let you try and trade the items yourself to try and get more for it than the tt value, and that you will give them the tt value back when you do sell it
  • If you do sell the item, make sure YOU ABSOLUTELY keep your end of the bargain, and give the tt value back to your mentor. Not nice seeing all them PED go out, but honest trading is the best policy in EU.
  • If you happen not to sell it, then you can tt it yourself and give that money back to your mentor.

The reason this can work out quite nicely, is that it does many things for you. First of all, it can help you bring in some bigger value PED, since your mentor might a very busy EU player who doesn't want to stand around trying to trade those items, but still wants their tt value. It also helps build your rep within the game, especially if you do a good job of it, and at the least keep your end of the bargain, i.e. return the tt values to your mentor. Your mentor is also likely to tell people they know what a stand up, honest person you are, so you might get offers coming from others to sell their stuff for them. I would also recommend when you can to perhaps chuck a little extra into the pot for your mentor, as a way to say thank you. If, for whatever reason, your mentor declines your plan, accept it. Don't argue or beg.

The last way to get some goods to sell is the auction. The auctioneers can be found in the mobile service centres that are always available in cities. Here, you can go trawling for items that are close to closing and do not have very many bids, making it a cheap item if you can get in there and snatch it up. Often tough, because many people do that kind of thing, but sometimes you get lucky.

How can I tell how much to sell for?

Some of you might be wondering about how on earth you can get to know the values of items. If you can sell it for more than the trade terminal will give you, how much more?

Well, this where PEAss comes in kinda handy. But before we get to that, just a quick explanantion on how pricing is normally "advertised" by traders when they try to sell their wares. There are basically two different ways.

The first is by saying something along the lines of tt+5. This is a direct indication of how many PED above the tt value you are selling an item for. Why use this format? Why not give an actual PED value? Well thats because items you try to sell are often at different tt values because of damage to the item. Repairing said item costs as much PED as you gain in tt value for that item, so theres no real need to repair an item before you sell it. In fact, sometimes its beneficial not to because the buyer can purchase it from you at a lower PED value, making it more affordable, and then repair when they have the money to do so.

The other method is in using percentages. You might have seen things like Generic Leather 200%. This basically means the person is selling the item at twice its tt value. This method you normally only see on items that are sold in quantities greater than 1. Things like building materials, resources like minerals and en matter and so on.

Sounds complicated? Well its not, in fact, when you get used to it, you'll wish the real world worked this way :D . To calculate the actual selling price in PED from the percentage is very easy. Say my tt value for 500 Generic Leather is 5 PED, and I decide to sell it at 195%. I use a calculator and put in 5 x 195%. There you are. Sorted.

But then again, how do you know these percentages or tt+'s. Well, on your PEAss toolbar, you'll see icons for a site called PEAuctions and MyTwoPecs. These two great resources can help you determine quite quickly what values things are currently worth in EU. Clicking on the PEAuctions icon opens a window to the PEAuctions site (while you are still in EU), where you can then type the name of the item you want to sell, and it will give you the current market value for that item by averaging all the latest sales that happened in auction. And it never fails.

But to be truly competitive, you might think about making your prices slightly lower than the one stated in PEAuctions. For example, Generic Leather (as of this writing) is listed at 205% in PEAuctions, so I might sell it at 190-200%.

Location, Location, Location

This a very important aspect of trading in EU. Theres no point trying to sell in a city that has no one that can buy. So below is my list of best places to trade and what items to trade there.

1. Port Atlantis: You should have known this, even if you have spent only a few hours in EU so far. Port Atlantis is good for selling, well, virtually anything. But it is a prime spot to sell to newer players, as this is where most new players start and try to build up their skills.

2. Twin Peaks: This area is pretty hard to discover by yourself, so perhaps ask a skilled player or your mentor if you have one, to help you get this TP. Twin Peaks is great for selling the higher valued items, or even your materials and resources, as this where higher level players tend to hang out, the crafters and the like, who want to buy that kinda stuff.

3. Camp Phoenix: Might surprise you, but there are almost always loads of people here, and its a mixed bag normally of higher level and newer players as well.

What I tend to do is stay at one location repeating my "advert" for about an hour or so (did I mention it can take a while), and then move to another place if I haven't had any luck.

Advertising

Now you've got the goods, you've found a perfect spot. Now to type that text that will tell everyone what you selling. Here's a few pointers:

1. Always state clearly whether you are selling or buying.

2. List only a few items at a time, not your entire inventory, as you dont want to gobble all the space in that global chat window.

3. Just like 2 above, don't try to get fancy and creat "eye-catching" artworks with your punctuation too much, you dont want to use up all the space in the gobal chat as it will anger other traders, and trading is all about relationships.

4. Don't repeat the message too often. My rule of thumb is once every 10 -20 seconds.

5. Always include where you are, and try not to say your at the boxes if there are three different spots for boxes. Pick somewhere unique.

Heres an example of a good message, only a few items, short and brief:

==SELLING== Jester D1 tt+1 -- Goblin thighs (F) tt+1.2 @ Boxes

Wrap up

So, I hope this little guide has helped some people out. If you have any questions, please PM me, or even feel free to respond to this post. Catch you on the street.
 
This is awesome! This should be required reading for all noobs like me! Thanks!

Bump! :thumbup:
 
My pleasure man. Share and share alike I always say. If you have suggestions for any other noob helping piece, let me know and I'll seewhat I can whip up :D
 
Great post :thumbup:.

gmccumskey said:
4. Don't repeat the message too often. My rule of thumb is once every 10 -20 seconds.

Just my rule of thumb is to only repeat my message after it has left the global chat. This only works in PA though b/c there aren't as many ppl spamming in the other cities.
 
nice read. it confirmed what i already know though. what i would like to know is which items are the best to trade (ie the meaty stuff).no point in trading if you have the wrong product
 
Truly a good guide, gmccumskey. Of course, as with every post, there is a "but" that needs to be cleared out:

gmccumskey said:
But then again, how do you know these percentages or tt+'s. Well, on your PEAss toolbar, you'll see icons for a site called PEAuctions and MyTwoPecs. These two great resources can help you determine quite quickly what values things are currently worth in EU. Clicking on the PEAuctions icon opens a window to the PEAuctions site (while you are still in EU), where you can then type the name of the item you want to sell, and it will give you the current market value for that item by averaging all the latest sales that happened in auction. And it never fails.

It does fail, a lot even. Sure, both MyTwoPecs and PEAuction are great for trading, but you don't wanna put all your trust on these two resources alone. MyTwoPecs calculate sweat prices differently then done ingame, so those prices tend to be messed up a bit.

PEAuction can be very wrong on many items. For instance, things sold at buyout doesn't get listed which results in many faulty prices on high end items. Also, resellers tend to drive prices up on many items which makes some items very expensive in average on PEAuction. Be sure to always check individual auctions on every kind of item and do your own math.

However, +rep on your post! ;)
 
...

Dantheman said:
nice read. it confirmed what i already know though. what i would like to know is which items are the best to trade (ie the meaty stuff).no point in trading if you have the wrong product

Not being the trading type, I can only speak from my own hunting perspective.

I sell the odds that I'd TT to the polite traders instead, for TT value.

A good item to start on is animal hides (generic). Move up from there.

The hides from an average run aren't enough in quantity to justify standing around when you could be looting 'real' items.

Buying up many hundred, however, can earn a tidy profit for the larger quantity sale.

Its interesting that in EU larger quantities earn a higher margin, while in RL larger quantities earn a lower margin.
 
ulitmate trading tip :


buy low, sell high :)
 
spod said:
ulitmate trading tip :


buy low, sell high :)

No... ULTIMATE ULTIMATE trading tip:

By low, or a bit under market price, sell high to lazy couch potatoes, wannabe ubers that can't possibly be seen in their uberness in trade towns so they just buyout everything they need in the auction ;)
 
great just what we need more traders, but A for effort, i sitll respect the tarde, some one has to do it.
 
Good post. I don't agree with everything you've said but I like it generally and think it has value to newcomers.

My disagrees are:

(i) its not all about luck when doing things like hunting, crafting and mining. Sure there's luck involved but in the end luck evens out. If you're doing something right in the long run you'll do OK provided you have the funds to cover the bad spells.

(ii) I think if you're selling tt stuff for someone you should offer them a percentage of the markup you make. Also once you have enough funds you should be paying them (the tt at least) when you take it from them not after you sell it.

(iii) I think spamming the chat window every 10 seconds is a bit much in many places... I like the suggestion of once it disappears from the top of the chat window.


But as I say, I like the idea of the post and much of its content, you're right in observing that its not something thats given out as advice much. I think you could actually expand on your post - some examples of trading, more on the auction & shops, whats ok and whats not (ie. selling for a profit but not a ripoff, not trying to sell things that can be acquired from the tt machine for a markup, etc)...

Trading is part of the game for not just traders but all of us.

As a hunter I buy armour and weapons to go and hunt mobs. This costs and obviously I try to get things as cheap as possible. The things I buy are often tailored to hunting specific mobs that I think may loot items I can sell on, hopefully covering the cost of the items I bought and then going on to make a profit. Thinking about what to hunt, experimenting with what works, learning how best to sell you loots is all part of successful hunting.

I once bought a whole new set of armour and plates to hunt one specific mob. I'd looted a pretty good item off them and thought it was worth getting some better equipment to hunt them more economically. In the end I found it wasn't really working, but it was worth it as an experiment and happily I found another mob which was very well suited to the armour set up and that has repeatedly looted me items that I've sold on auction for well above the original cost of the equipment.

Similarly as a miner I have to think about the amount I can afford to pay as markup on things like amps compared to the amount of markup I am getting back when I sell my ores. And choice of where I mine is often at least partly based on knowing that the area has ores that are selling for a good price at the moment.
 
Jimmy B said:
(i) its not all about luck when doing things like hunting, crafting and mining. Sure there's luck involved but in the end luck evens out. If you're doing something right in the long run you'll do OK provided you have the funds to cover the bad spells.

(ii) I think if you're selling tt stuff for someone you should offer them a percentage of the markup you make. Also once you have enough funds you should be paying them (the tt at least) when you take it from them not after you sell it.

(iii) I think spamming the chat window every 10 seconds is a bit much in many places... I like the suggestion of once it disappears from the top of the chat window.

Thanx for all the comments guys, but just to point a couple things out Jimmy. My guide was intended to be a starting point for new players, so covering the basics was my aim. Anymore typing and my fingers would have bled, lol. Also, I agree that hunting/mining/crafting isn't ALL about luck, but trading for sure has the smallest element of luck than the other professions.

My comment as well about getting items and giving tt back was a mentor disciple situation, where the mentor would have tt'ed the stuff anyway, so no one loses. I also did mention that a good idea to give a bit extra than tt back when you can, remembering this guide is aimed at new players.

I have built up relationships where I sell for others and give them tt + some agreed upon extra, based on market conditions, etc.

EDIT. Oh yes, and I also agree that a good idea to readvertise when it clears global chat window, but again, for new players, 10 seconds is longer than it takes in PA for your advewrt to clear. Also, waiting only for the advert to clear doesn't allow people just arrived in your area to see what you selling, cos they might arrive between adverts.

If anyone is interested, maybe I should produce a TOTAL Ultimate Trading guide, perhaps in PDF and post the attachement here?? I will need some time, cos my guide on this thread really only scratches the surface.
 
Sorry Jimmy, realised it might sound like I'm criticising you. I really appreciate the constructive criticism, so really, thanx for the input.
 
Hey no worries :)

Keep up the good work ;)
 
My advice : Buy on the streets, sell at the auction. There's always lazy people who pay a few extra buyout peds to get their item right away.

And keep track on what happens in the universe. When MA holds events that is about hunting a special mob, prices on items that that mob drops will go down. For example, if there is a robot invasion prices on gazz will go down since robots drop gazz stones. If you then have hundreds of peds worth of gazz in storage... well... bummer. :)

Also keep track of upcoming VU's. For example, if there's a taming update coming, make sure you have lots of fruits, sweetstuff and nutrio to sell when the VU goes online.
 
Thanks Darkaner for that, Was next on my list. Good post and doshed some rep+ to you there bro :D
 
Call this an official bump :D
 
With the PEAss app no longer in existence, is there an alternative out there?

Alternatively, does someone have an old version of the app that still works?
 
Back
Top