FYI: "There's no markup in the game". Meanwhile the auction... (one of the most important lessons in the game: auction house)

[Evey]

Auction is the main thing to learn in this game.​

It’s more important than even understanding DPP, Efficiency, or DPS!!

Why, you might ask? Because doing auction wrong can have a bigger negative impact on your long-term progress than hunting with mediocre efficiency ever will.

Auction is what mentors should teach their disciples first when they reach out for help. Teach them how to use it, how to sell their time, knowledge, and effort to other players, creating a sustainable and working economy. That’s what makes the whole ecosystem function...

Cutting, and cutting hard, is cutting yourself off from the very resources you constantly loot. Every time you cut, you’re lowering not only today’s price but tomorrow’s as well. You're shooting yourself in the foot.

When you see someone cutting by 2%, they’ve already made a big mistake. Don’t make it worse by cutting an extra 0.5%. If you have to cut, cutting by more than 0.01–0.05% is already enough!

When you have a small quantity, there’s no reason to cut, someone with a large stack, yours will sell faster anyway, and different players need different quantities. They won’t skip yours just because it’s slightly higher if it matches what they need.

A perfect example: Spleen Oil. With its high TT value, the ideal situation would be everyone selling at the same markup.

Remember, markup isn’t just what you see in the history but it’s also what’s currently available in the auction. Don’t shortcut this step by just dumping your loot into auction. Take a moment to look first and see what others are doing and price accordingly.

Understand early that this is one of the most important habits to develop! If the game goes well for you, your cycle will increase too. Imagine cycling 1 million PED a month with a high-level weapon while throwing away even 0.5%, 1%, or 2% each time. It adds up fast to a huge loss.
On the flip side, imagine being patient and prepared, getting an extra 2 to 5% markup on some resources just by timing your sales right.

Look at the graphs too: those spikes mean high demand, people can’t keep up with selling, or resources are temporarily depleted.

One of the worst cases is when big players dump huge stacks, cutting by 20, 30, or even 50%. Since these sell much slower than smaller, precise stacks, others start undercutting again and again until the resource drops to nanocube level.

If you constantly find yourself cutting — or worse, selling directly to orders — you’re losing a lot. Improve your strategy today.

I can’t stress this enough to new players: cutting hard on auction lowers your long-term returns dramatically. Don’t repeat other people’s mistakes.

Note: I have zero spleen oil right now. This isn’t a rant about not selling mine high — I just keep seeing new and smaller players repeating this same mistake.


PS: Please share additional tips that you think are useful and could help newer players do better in game. Thank you!

 

[Evey]

DON'Ts
- put SB 100% or TT+0. Even when you see some high level players doing it.
- cut quantities listed in the last few hours, match their MU instead, it means things are selling fast
- cut everyone and be the first.
- sell to order. If you do that often then you don't need the peds, you throw the peds...
- put in auction without looking at what's in same category.
- frequently sell to resellers. We understand sometimes they provide liquidity, but if you find yourself constantly selling to resellers, you're doing the RCE wrong, if you're not going anywhere (and let's be honest, there's no such thing as quitting Entropia) you're constantly losing because you're impatient. If you know you are impatient, stop buying stuff, the HOF you're looking for is already lost in all these back and forths selling way cheaper. You are perfeclty capable of selling your own stuff.
- Do not try to convince people to pay you above what's in auction, you will insult them and can be considered as a scamming attempt.

DOs:
- Look when other auction were created!
- Cut with very little up to 0.5%
- Try placing your goods after the first 3-4 entries.
- Try put fixed stacks, and smaller, rather than random or high quantities. (example: 200, 300, 500, 1000 PED TT oils, according to your bankroll)
- Always set 7 days to your auctions - something I always do, but I forgot to mention it above, skeptic reminded me, it's a very good practice indeed.

 

[WhiningSkeptic]

Awesome Evey, nice initiative!

I have some tricks to auctioning that I follow when I am in a normal state of mind and not frustrated or intoxicated which I feel are helpful:

- BO should be higher than current market
- Typically listing for seven days is the best choice but sometimes it is a good idea to have the auction ending at times when people are drunk
- Study stack sizes. You can have a higher price if the stack size is good. For example basic sheet metal should always be sold in multiples of 3100 and belkar in multiples of 2900 because gamblers like round numbers.
- Check the date. People are more likely to pay when they can afford to pay and that is after payday.
- Check the clock. Make sure your auctions end during peak hours.

 

[LuisArkadov]

For small time players: Check required stacks for daily craft missions & sell the exact stack required. You can usually add a few % above current market prices.

 

[Evey]

Appreciate the input guys! Keep sharing!

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

The cause of this is most often the need to get a quick sale because they may have a too small a budget for their play level.

I did that myself sometimes so not necessarily new or low budget players.

Also the fear that it may not sell. Listing again and again is not only time consuming but costly.

 

[Rechinul]

Auction is the main thing to learn in this game.​

It’s more important than even understanding DPP, Efficiency, or DPS!!

Why, you might ask? Because doing auction wrong can have a bigger negative impact on your long-term progress than hunting with mediocre efficiency ever will.

Auction is what mentors should teach their disciples first when they reach out for help. Teach them how to use it, how to sell their time, knowledge, and effort to other players, creating a sustainable and working economy. That’s what makes the whole ecosystem function...

Cutting, and cutting hard, is cutting yourself off from the very resources you constantly loot. Every time you cut, you’re lowering not only today’s price but tomorrow’s as well. You're shooting yourself in the foot.

When you see someone cutting by 2%, they’ve already made a big mistake. Don’t make it worse by cutting an extra 0.5%. If you have to cut, cutting by more than 0.01–0.05% is already enough!

When you have a small quantity, there’s no reason to cut, someone with a large stack, yours will sell faster anyway, and different players need different quantities. They won’t skip yours just because it’s slightly higher if it matches what they need.

A Player who got prob <10k Ped Wouldn't be able to keep in storage the resources until they eventually increase in price.
Cutting is the way everyone could Sell. IF you feel your resources worth more, DO NOT sell them in Auction. Find yourself a Buyer and negociate/convince him to pay you higher prices than Auction.

Having a freely Market is more important than some WHALES whos collecting materials and increasing prices just buying on orders.
Should I give u Examples where people are buying 1milion Strongboxes? Just because they got the peds to do so? Don't like the music -> Don`t dance. Simple as that.

There are players whos increasing the markups just because they got large stacks in storage, I dont see it wrong, but on the same time I dont see it right either.
Should we discuss where People even if they dont need are buying Key RESOURCES (Tiering ones) just to keep the prices UP ?

I do not agree at all with your post.

We should have a free market, and people should sell for whatever price they consider.
If i will find you on Auction selling something and I want to sell Quicker i will sell for 5% Under not for 2%.

Good luck with your non sense talk. (Thats what I do consider this) -> You could feel offended, But thats how MARKET works.

U got the Power to drop/rise the Price ? Do it. But do not complain when others are selling under.

 

[WhiningSkeptic]

A Player who got prob <10k Ped Wouldn't be able to keep in storage the resources until they eventually increase in price.
Cutting is the way everyone could Sell. IF you feel your resources worth more, DO NOT sell them in Auction. Find yourself a Buyer and negociate/convince him to pay you higher prices than Auction.

Having a freely Market is more important than some WHALES whos collecting materials and increasing prices just buying on orders.
Should I give u Examples where people are buying 1milion Strongboxes? Just because they got the peds to do so? Don't like the music -> Don`t dance. Simple as that.

There are players whos increasing the markups just because they got large stacks in storage, I dont see it wrong, but on the same time I dont see it right either.
Should we discuss where People even if they dont need are buying Key RESOURCES (Tiering ones) just to keep the prices UP ?

I do not agree at all with your post.

We should have a free market, and people should sell for whatever price they consider.
If i will find you on Auction selling something and I want to sell Quicker i will sell for 5% Under not for 2%.

Good luck with your non sense talk. (Thats what I do consider this) -> You could feel offended, But thats how MARKET works.

U got the Power to drop/rise the Price ? Do it. But do not complain when others are selling under.

What?

Where is the nonsense? He talks about not unnecessarily giving away PED because it isn't needed. Someone might read it, have a eureka moment and go on to save a few ped.

Markup is important. 1% MU is equal to 15 looter levels. Selling 2% under because you think you have to which you don't (and this post highlights) is the equal as gaining 30 looter levels over night.

Everyone won't follow the tips, only a few will. It will not have impact on the market but enhance the experience of the game for a select few who decides to start paying attention to it.

 

[Evey]

Markup is important. 1% MU is equal to 15 looter levels.

This is a really good argument. Or ~15% eff.

 

[Gremii]

If i will find you on Auction selling something and I want to sell Quicker i will sell for 5% Under not for 2%.

Do as you please, but consider yourself one of the problems with the market. Undercutting for quick sales is why the markup dies. I smell addiction in those who need a 10 minute sale because they need peds after every hunt. Taking a break sometimes is what some players should do.

 

[Evey]

Isn't convincing someone to pay you above auction a scamming attempt?
But hey, I'm not expecting resellers to like this thread for sure

 

[JohnCapital]

You'd be surprised how much timing helps your MU. When you sell is half the battle.

 

[i.cromme]

dont teach them, they can become competetive

 

[LuisArkadov]

I understand this thread is meant to give practical hints to players, yet we could also ask MA to come towards us here.

Noobs hunting the most puny of punies walk away with 3 ped or 10 ped worth of muscle oil & are then hit with prohibitively high auction fees (relatively speaking).

Give everyone a freebie auction or 2 per day/week for certain categories of loot (oils, hides) or at least only charge auction fee upon actual sale. Heck, make it a noob mission reward to earn a free auction per day.

Exclude anything that's available from tt or technician (bps with qr1) or some such.

I understand that this would add a layer of complexity that devs may want to avoid. Yet some of the commenters have a point when saying the risk of not selling my small stack is off putting when the auction fee represents 3% or 5% or even 10% of the tt value.

There's got to be a trade off that benefits both, MA & the players.

 

[Evey]

I understand this thread is meant to give practical hints to players, yet we could also ask MA to come towards us here.

Noobs hunting the most puny of punies walk away with 3 ped or 10 ped worth of muscle oil & are then hit with prohibitively high auction fees (relatively speaking).

Give everyone a freebie auction or 2 per day/week for certain categories of loot (oils, hides) or at least only charge auction fee upon actual sale. Heck, make it a noob mission reward to earn a free auction per day.

Exclude anything that's available from tt or technician (bps with qr1) or some such.

I understand that this would add a layer of complexity that devs may want to avoid. Yet some of the commenters have a point when saying the risk of not selling my small stack is off putting when the auction fee represents 3% or 5% or even 10% of the tt value.

There's got to be a trade off that benefits both, MA & the players.

It's a really good idea. Let newcomers sell the stuf they loot without a tax for a while, but how do you prevent abuse? It's a great idea for sure

 

[Cramen]

I mean this isn't really just an undercutting issue, its a lack of player issue. There definitely isn't enough players to absorb the resources that get thrown into the market.

 

[Evey]

I mean this isn't really just an undercutting issue, its a lack of player issue. There definitely isn't enough players to absorb the resources that get thrown into the market.

The point was not about resources being too cheap, but the way players sell the stuff they have, some common sense guidelines for newer players to avoid common mistakes so they can make their peds last a bit longer. Game's not easy, no reason to make it harder by throwing away money

 

[Art Jennifer]

Full agree and great advice if you have the bankroll and time to follow it.

If I only have 6 hours a week to play and I’m stuck with 90% of my bankroll in loot at the start of that 6 hours.

I need to shift and ensure I can shift it quickly, so I can play.

Which unfortunately often means selling less than MU so I can secure a quick sale.

Not ideal, but with limited bankroll and time if I want to play I have to shift things quick.

 

[Evey]

Full agree and great advice if you have the bankroll and time to follow it.

If I only have 6 hours a week to play and I’m stuck with 90% of my bankroll in loot at the start of that 6 hours.

I need to shift and ensure I can shift it quickly, so I can play.

Which unfortunately often means selling less than MU so I can secure a quick sale.

Not ideal, but with limited bankroll and time if I want to play I have to shift things quick.

I can perfectly see your point. Auctioning and flipping loot is game time as well and on the long run, it's RCE and this stuff matters, they have a huge impact on your own gameplay! But up to each to balance it all according to bankroll, time and everything else. If new players build this habit early, to think it though very well how they can make the most of their loot, because that's the essense of the game, selling your loot, your time, to others... the 1-2% extra matter so much.

When I had my long caperon streak, I was always trying to sell fine hide and spleen, in smallest stack, 2-3-500 and year later, I am glad I tried getting the most of the stuff I looted. 2% of my cycle is... well, a lot!

 

[detritus2.0]

I mean this isn't really just an undercutting issue, its a lack of player issue. There definitely isn't enough players to absorb the resources that get thrown into the market.

The resources come from players. More players = more oversupply. The issue is stock vs. consumption. There isn't a high enough consumption rate relative to the amount of resources produced. Player count just changes the scale of the problem, doesn't solve it.

 

[The Mind]

Its a hard topic and i dont really want to admit how much time i spent thinking on this...

There are 2 types of players in this game:
1. Those who treat it as a job. They take it seriously. They are always concerned with maximizing their profits via different strats, some more ethical than others: ramping up the prices, hoarding resources, hostaging markets/events/mechanics, abusing social interactions, etc... They wouldnt be here if not for the monetary benefit.
2. Those who do it as a game. People who dont really count profits/losses and treat it as "paying for entertainment". They dont care about 2%, 5% or 20% undercut. They wouldnt be here if not for the fun factor.
3. And there is a whole spectrum in between. Some serious players have way more aggresive pricing than others. Some TTing metal res from gambling, and some AH it.

And the one thing ive learned in all those years is: both groups just dont give a fuck about each other.
Those who play "smart" look down on "gamblers" like if they were the dumbest people on the planet. Unable to make even tiniest of profits with all that bankroll.
And "gamblers" look at those "smart" people figting for how much 1k sweat should be: 1.3ped or 1.5ped (2 irl cents btw), and cant understand wtf people wasting their lives on.

So, if people want to help out to those who enjoy been profitable, giving them advices on how to be more efficient, is great.
And if people just want to have fun, its also great.

Just dont tell people, with different goals, that they are doing anything wrong.
At the end of the day, its about you enjoying this place the way you like it.

 

[Cramen]

The resources come from players. More players = more oversupply. The issue is stock vs. consumption. There isn't a high enough consumption rate relative to the amount of resources produced. Player count just changes the scale of the problem, doesn't solve it.

I understand your logic, I really do. But you also have to look at the people coming into the game, how many are going to be an eve, messi, image. There are going to be a lot of players coming into the game wanting to buy a bunch of limited weapons/amps/armors so on, that creates a more flourishing economy. To think just because a few undercutting individuals who undercut like crazy is destroying the economy is nonsense, if there was a demand for the resources those items would be snatched up in a heart beat. DPS has exponentially gone up over over last few years for a few uber players also, that can easily oversaturate the market with a lack of demand for said resources.

 

[Boardian Chilix]

I've been reading this thread, and I have to respectfully disagree with the original post's main idea. Focusing on players "undercutting" feels wrong and misleading. The problem isn't that players are selling their loot for too little; the problem is that the entire system is broken.

People are talking about high markups, and that was mainly me yesterday. I was crafting Gizmo 8 and got frustrated. The reason for the high prices isn't "bad player habits"—it's the drop rates.

I was seeing maybe 2-3 blueprint drops per thousand clicks. Of course, you'll get plenty of low-value (L) BPs, but anything useful is incredibly rare. This is the real reason for high markups. It's not some "lesson" players are failing; it's a direct result of supply being choked by the game.

When drops are that bad, why would anyone want to craft? It feels like the system is capped and gone. There are no new blueprints, so there's no reason to even participate in that part of the economy.

And it's not just crafting. The general loot system feels less like a rewarding game and more like just timers and drainers, where you lose, lose, lose, and then get a small carrot to keep you going.

So, the problem isn't players undercutting each other. The problem is that the game's core mechanics make drops so rare that the market is forced to be extreme.

 

[AdrianFP15]

As Milton Friedman aptly stated, "Prices aren't 'fair' or 'unfair'. They're signals. Interfering with them reduces total welfare." This fundamental insight explains the failure of the current market intervention.

The initiative imposing a price floor in the market, under the premise of "no undercutting," generates a critical economic distortion. By artificially suppressing the price mechanism, it creates a non-visible surplus (items accumulate in players' inventories), disincentivizes active hunting, and induces economic agents (crafters) to internalize production to preserve their profit margins. This results in a contraction of effective demand and a more accelerated and severe price depreciation (from 108% to 103.9%) than in a free market, where price flexibility allows for an efficient adjustment between supply and demand, ensuring rapid goods rotation and optimal resource allocation. The intervention, therefore, creates inefficiency, reduces overall welfare, and disproportionately harms new players, who lack the capital to sustain their assets over prolonged periods, unlike players with greater resources.

For a deeper understanding of these economic principles, particularly the crucial role of price signals and the consequences of their distortion, I recommend consulting foundational works such as Milton Friedman's "Capitalism and Freedom" (1962), Ludwig von Mises' "Human Action" (1949), and Thomas Sowell's "Basic Economics" (2014), which thoroughly analyze how such interventions lead to market discoordination and the accumulation of unsellable inventory.

 

[Contract CH Hunter]

I'd like to add, track your AH fee's.

After sometime you will understand true cost of AH and bad sales.

Great and informative post!

Edit: Typos

 

[WhiningSkeptic]

Its a hard topic and i dont really want to admit how much time i spent thinking on this...

There are 2 types of players in this game:
1. Those who treat it as a job. They take it seriously. They are always concerned with maximizing their profits via different strats, some more ethical than others: ramping up the prices, hoarding resources, hostaging markets/events/mechanics, abusing social interactions, etc... They wouldnt be here if not for the monetary benefit.
2. Those who do it as a game. People who dont really count profits/losses and treat it as "paying for entertainment". They dont care about 2%, 5% or 20% undercut. They wouldnt be here if not for the fun factor.
3. And there is a whole spectrum in between. Some serious players have way more aggresive pricing than others. Some TTing metal res from gambling, and some AH it.

And the one thing ive learned in all those years is: both groups just dont give a fuck about each other.
Those who play "smart" look down on "gamblers" like if they were the dumbest people on the planet. Unable to make even tiniest of profits with all that bankroll.
And "gamblers" look at those "smart" people figting for how much 1k sweat should be: 1.3ped or 1.5ped (2 irl cents btw), and cant understand wtf people wasting their lives on.

So, if people want to help out to those who enjoy been profitable, giving them advices on how to be more efficient, is great.
And if people just want to have fun, its also great.

Just dont tell people, with different goals, that they are doing anything wrong.
At the end of the day, its about you enjoying this place the way you like it.

I would fit under number 2 here. I pay people to deliver damage enhancers if I feel like I'm on a roll, I bankrolled people during the Corinth event and very often I just TT stuff.

The last part is very important. Not everyone is looking to squeeze every penny out. Codex is one such thing, sticking to looter skills is the financially smart thing to do but the increments are so damn small it will take forever to notice a difference, while a big reward can make you max a new gun which equals fun.

Min maxing is hard and tedious in here.

 

[Evey]

I would fit under number 2 here.

There's no such thing as play for profit OR play for fun. Both categories are the same, they have the same goal, it's how they treat the journey. Some are externally reckless and some are extremely calculated. Both go for dopamine from playing real cash game.

Let's get back to main topic please.

the GPT post was funny

 

[The Mind]

There's no such thing as play for profit OR play for fun. Both categories are the same, they have the same goal, it's how they treat the journey. Some are externally reckless and some are extremely calculated. Both go for dopamine from playing real cash game.

Let's get back to main topic please.

the GPT post was funny

Its just you who finds fun ONLY in getting profits. But there are other people, with other goals, and other ways of having fun. There is no right or wrong way here.
If @WhiningSkeptic would have to go for those damage enhancers himself, it would give him monetary profits, but would ruin hes fun. He just wants to keep shooting. And the amount hes paying for delivery makes it worth.

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

There's got to be a trade off that benefits both, MA & the players.

Apart from your good suggestions which are aimed at new players MA could do also help veterans:
- Have no auction fees if your things don't sell. Would still pay tax for when they do sell. This would remove the fear of your things not selling.
- Discintivise "under cutting". e.g. by giving some kind of token /points for selling at average markup. Which can be traded in future for something.

 

[Shamshe]

Undercutting is just part of the economics in games, this game is not an exception. On most items the numbers will be higher then the demand always. Oils and nanocubes would be one of these items. So you linking the spleen as an example is a realy bad example imo and it also paints a wrong image. Most likely someone on a crafting run bought up all the low mu spleen up to a point they where willing to pay for it. Dont forget that the avergae monthly mu on it is like what 102.something?
If you look at stuff like tier comps, item upgrades or some L weapons , people are much less likely to undercut.
A second important point is that not many people have the same bankrolls you do. and in order for them to keep cycling undercutting on stuff like nanocubes and oils is the best thing for them to do. Selling for some mu is always better then selling to a tt or reseller (unless amounts are rly low), in order for you to keep going.
If you realy think undercutting is the problem here, you should use your bankroll and play the auction house.
But you and many people are not doing that for the sole reason that the undercutting is not the problem. Like others have mentioned the lack of player, the disproprtions between crafters and hunters and oversageration of the lootpool is the problem.