This is how mindark is taking all yours money on mayhem hunts.

[Evey]

Also not sure why you keep shitting on my gear.

That gun is at the bottom of the food chain. You loose pretty much on anything with it, especially if you go to bad mobs/robots with no MU.


Edit. That gun was behind a lot, BEFORE loot 2.0

 

[XarcX]

... for immediate gratification. Or in case of emergency...
But why tho? Why set yourself for failure? If you value your time so cheap, why should others?

For active hunters, tokens can be 2PED each, if sold as LR60, BC80, LP100 etc. Some tokens even worth 3 ped, as nano blade.

I meant that you should not value tokens more than the pills worth, because you cannot guarantee pulling a higher value item if you not already have pulled it. Of course extracting pills is the lowest price and should not be done if not in case of desperation.

Although deluding yourself that you are guaranteed to pull a high value item and value the tokens at 2-3 peds as the level of mod nano blade might also be setting yourself for failure. You might in the end pay for that high value item through losses to gather those tokens.

Expecting to extract the highest prize by randomly looting rare tokens is not a mindset of a successful player and should not be accounted in loot return. It is the mindset of an overoptimistic player, in other words a gambler.

 

[Sulje]

... for immediate gratification. Or in case of emergency...
But why tho? Why set yourself for failure? If you value your time so cheap, why should others?

For active hunters, tokens can be 2PED each, if sold as LR60, BC80, LP100 etc. Some tokens even worth 3 ped, as nano blade.

But if you absolutely have to sell tokens every mayhem and can never hold them for longer periods of time, this event is not for you (and maybe even the game...). Also if you can't set yourself to see mayhems as longer term project, where you grind towards an item then it will be very difficult for you to get any fun in it and also very difficult for someone else to try and give you a good reason for you to continue. Zho made drawings of how it works and people still have a hard time grasping basics and talk about having high efficiency lowers other people's returns... it's 5 years since loot 2.0 came into effect, srsly....

At high level looter, high turnover and good efficiency, very bad mayhems look like 96-97% tt return but outcome is still epic. But I don't count my tokens at .4, price of vendor pills for bulks...

What happened with recent mayhems was that MA greatly lowered the huge gap between hardcore mayhem participants and other active hunters* that didn't have access to competitive gear. Now, MA made some steps but people have to make steps too and plan ahead, because there's a race for vendor items, they won't wait there forever, if you're not up for the task, don't go hardcore 3 days then draw a conclusion about tt returns....

In the current form of mayhem, almost any weapon above level 70 can do pretty good, if you don't throw your tokens to the pills.

___
* Active hunters are those that play all mayhems and don't sound like they rage quit every day despite the fact that they still play every day for 15-20 years on lowest levels.

High turnover is irrelevant, it's all about how many mobs you loot. Imagine cycling 5m peds on 40hp mobs? A bit unrealistic right ?

Also efficiency and looter skills are not important, what is important is DPP (kill more for less), and choosing the right mob to hunt, which gives enough markup so you can cover your 20% tt loss. When I hunt I always expect 80% tt return because that's normal nowadays with level 70 looter and 60-65+ efficiency.

Zho made a drawing and posted results of his own avatar returns, every avatar is different and shows random different result. Your avatar is not the same as mine.

 

[Sulje]

Everyone will always say the best about their care for the purpose of profiting when they sell it later, community should be aware of this type of scams and be very careful.

 

[morfoc]

you may be paying for the unreal engine, they won't use their own money

 

[Jhereg]

I finished at around 99.4% TT return for Easter Mayhem but only ~ 150k in total cycled. Just for point of reference.

OP: Did you double check results from lootnanny with a manual check of your returns? Your results are within the range of what is possible, but a quick validation might be useful here just to make sure you have good data.

 

[Evey]

High turnover is irrelevant, it's all about how many mobs you loot. Imagine cycling 5m peds on 40hp mobs? A bit unrealistic right ?

Also efficiency and looter skills are not important, what is important is DPP (kill more for less), and choosing the right mob to hunt, which gives enough markup so you can cover your 20% tt loss. When I hunt I always expect 80% tt return because that's normal nowadays with level 70 looter and 60-65+ efficiency.

Zho made a drawing and posted results of his own avatar returns, every avatar is different and shows random different result. Your avatar is not the same as mine.

My expected % is above 98% and I'm not let down by the game in medium and long term. 80% means not looting quite a few mobs during the hunt, but if that's your thing... It's also good to have lower expectations then have pleasant surprises, but that's not the case either I guess...

The only thing where you're not wrong in this post is about DPP being very important. But so is the eff, looter and turnover. Also DPS. They are all equally important. You put yourself in rage mode and call it gambling and call advice "scams". But this thread is not about people saying best things about their case, on the contrary...

Everyone can choose who they listen to, I'd say listen to everyone and draw your own conclusion. Believing those who fail on a daily basis vs those who are self sustainable at least, will not yield desirable results. But if you do, don't waste your time here...

 

[Jhereg]

Also just to add another data point.

I'm at around 97.6% TT return now with reaper blade over last 1.3 million cycled. That's up from 96.x% about 500k peds cycled earlier...

 

[ColonelBuckshot]

Interesting to read the different results! I've been whinging a lot about not hitting a big loot this mayhem, but seems others have way more volatile loot that me? Deposit wise, I play to a budget. I deposit once at start or end of month on a Friday then it has to get me through to the end. Mayhem I do 2x my normal depo. I used to do it weekly or as and when needed but that never worked out for me...now i find the larger lower frequency deposits have a distinct effect on my loot stability.
I love mayhem and look forward to it. It's given me a real goal that's achievable. I've never had luck on rare loots or getting UL item drops so finally it's nice to have a chance to pull a prize by putting in the work, and imo I'm making good progress. Almost half way there. Started at 0 last Halloween.

I'm not a HOF chaser but I also don't track my loot or record spreadsheets. I keep a mental note and just manage my ped card dynamically as I go. Recording reduces the enjoyment and doesn't change the outcome and causes additional stress so i gave it up. Just my personal take and this is what Entropia is to me. So many ways to play.

 

[Sulje]

My expected % is above 98% and I'm not let down by the game in medium and long term. 80% means not looting quite a few mobs during the hunt, but if that's your thing... It's also good to have lower expectations then have pleasant surprises, but that's not the case either I guess...

The only thing where you're not wrong in this post is about DPP being very important. But so is the eff, looter and turnover. Also DPS. They are all equally important. You put yourself in rage mode and call it gambling and call advice "scams". But this thread is not about people saying best things about their case, on the contrary...

Everyone can choose who they listen to, I'd say listen to everyone and draw your own conclusion. Believing those who fail on a daily basis vs those who are self sustainable at least, will not yield desirable results. But if you do, don't waste your time here...

Turnover is not important. It's irrelevant for % return conversation, only number of mobs looted.

Your results are ONLY yours, nobody else will get same results with the exactly same gear and skill level you have.

 

[Evey]

Turnover is not important. It's irrelevant for % return conversation, only number of mobs looted.

Your results are ONLY yours, nobody else will get same results with the exactly same gear and skill level you have.

False. Turnover is important because it lowers volatility and people get to bitch less when they shoot more just because the loot "stabilizes". Because if a player does kerbs for 5 years then suddenly goes hard 4 days in cat 4 of mayhem, he will notice 80% right away, will stop and come here and whine, while on the other side, players with vast experience make extensive threads like bankroll management and risk of ruin, just for those cases that most vulnerable players choose to ignore....

 

[Iceman2003]

I finished at around 99.4% TT return for Easter Mayhem but only ~ 150k in total cycled. Just for point of reference.

OP: Did you double check results from lootnanny with a manual check of your returns? Your results are within the range of what is possible, but a quick validation might be useful here just to make sure you have good data.

Ofc I checked it, Im always referring to my excel sheets where Im writing down all gun reps, armor, ammo usage, ammo conversion from shrap, enh ect, everyting. And I posted those results in 1st post. So for that mayhem Total cost is : 208 549,47ped, Total loot is: 193150,64peds. 92,62% and dont want to be other way.

 

[Sulje]

False. Turnover is important because it lowers volatility and people get to bitch less when they shoot more just because the loot "stabilizes". Because if a player does kerbs for 5 years then suddenly goes hard 4 days in cat 4 of mayhem, he will notice 80% right away, will stop and come here and whine, while on the other side, players with vast experience make extensive threads like bankroll management and risk of ruin, just for those cases that most vulnerable players choose to ignore....

You can kill certain mobs for years just for 200 ped bankroll. You are always promoting millions of turnover, which is misleading and nobody should cycle so much because of massive tt loss that will incur.

 

[Evey]

You can kill certain mobs for years just for 200 ped bankroll. You are always promoting millions of turnover, which is misleading and nobody should cycle so much because of massive tt loss that will incur.

False. I promote consistency. Don't go berserk on high cat if you come from low turnover because the results you're getting will be all over the place...
Ideally if you cycle 2000 peds a week usually, do just that during mayhems as well, on lowest HP mob, results will be equally bad or unsatisfactory. Find the pace that works according to your bankroll, then go get some.

My turnover is high because I realised it brings benefits after I manage to sustain the heavy tt losses. And smart folks hammered it into my head (thank you Alina & Ivi!) that TT is not relevant and TT loss is the shit.

 

[miathan]

Turnover is not important. It's irrelevant for % return conversation, only number of mobs looted.

Yes, turnover should be normalized with cost/per kill.
1MPED turnover on Dasp is not equal to 1MPED turnover on Shy Vixen

 

[miathan]

My turnover is high because I realised it brings benefits after I manage to sustain the heavy tt losses. And smart folks hammered it into my head (thank you Alina & Ivi!) that TT is not relevant and TT loss is the shit.

Agreed but also not agreed. TT is still relevant and looter and eff is relevant.
Returns are TT + MU, both variables are important. Especially when your expected TT is like 91-94% instead of 98%. You need to invest/skill smart to try to push your TT% higher.

 

[Evey]

Agreed but also not agreed. TT is still relevant and looter and eff is relevant.
Returns are TT + MU, both variables are important. Especially when your expected TT is like 91-94% instead of 98%. You need to invest/skill smart to try to push your TT% higher.

You misunderstood. It's not important as it's not a decisive factor. You just observe it and take it into account with the MU and you judge the end result, yes. But, if you can afford short term tt losses on very good MU, tt is irrelevant... you don't rage quit over 70% tt return if after MU profit is insane, for example...

 

[MeiGDLing]

Ofc I checked it, Im always referring to my excel sheets where Im writing down all gun reps, armor, ammo usage, ammo conversion from shrap, enh ect, everyting. And I posted those results in 1st post. So for that mayhem Total cost is : 208 549,47ped, Total loot is: 193150,64peds. 92,62% and dont want to be other way.

is 93% not close to expectation on robots? Certainly within a couple of % id imagine. What is your robot looter?

 

[Rocket192]

Also just to add another data point.

I'm at around 97.6% TT return now with reaper blade over last 1.3 million cycled. That's up from 96.x% about 500k peds cycled earlier...

stop copying me

EDIT: take 8700 off of the overall return after markup - i forgot to put in enhancer MU costs for this mayhem.

values assigned were 1.2 ped/token and 1.4 ped/box (i open them and this is my average markup out of them) - 1.2p/token is a gross underestimation.

this mayhem only.... Halloween, Merry Mayhem, and Easter Mayhem.

easter was super shit. 95.44% TT


i use dogshit weapons with as much dps as i can get. looks like the loot algorithm is working in regards to TT returns. if only they would fix rare tokens amiright?

 

[Msturlese]

Let's talk about Statistics, because it is all about this.
the game has a sinewave return pattern, that is for small moments, the a second sine for medium term, then a longer sinewave and the loot distrivution fits that wave pattern
it pay back ON AVERAGE a multiplier every 200 ....300 kills
And every 500 ...1000 globals pay a larger one.
the scale is about this, make your variations.
gamer A. kills ARGO, 1 .1 ped each with 3.1 dpp
gamer B. kill argo, 0.95 ped each with a 2.0 gun
gamer C kill maybem robots level 4 6 ped per klill with a whatever gun

we all load our ammo, go to field, shot 1.000.000 ped
gamer a: 909.000 loot events 3.600 globals, 5 hof
gamer B: 1.176.480 loot events, 4.700 globals, 6 hof
gamer C: 166.660 loot event, 666 global ....1 hof

want stability of return? decrease cost per kill, increase loot events

efficiency matter less than RNG because of the swinging part in short term, in longer term it REDUCES the swings amplitude
DPP reduces the amount of the global and reduce the risk
higher looter reduce the risk

OMG it is common knowledge.... it is said from ALL the Top Hunters, in all the declination and the variation.

i just add:
PLAY TO EARN is a NFT scam.
90% of ppl must spend in game to make 10% progress free
and to make 1% withdraw a wage from game
and he does not take the wage off MA... even the top 1% LOOSE TO THE RANDOMIZER
no one beat the game, someone beat other gamers.

when gaming is compulsory its better to take a bike and have a ride.
if you sold the bike to deposit, have a walk.

 

[Joat]

I just keep on wondering what will happen with future returns if more and more folks get high eff weapons and higher looter skill.

MA won't pay out more, so if more people get higher higher average returns by using UL high eff weapons with high looter, does that mean that more lower players will even get crappier returns?

It's more likely that after they introduced loot 2.0 with all new parameters that increased loot, that they lowered loot with efficiency
and looter prof stands to balance it out.
It isn't so that we increase our loot with these two, we reduce the loss by increasing these.
Thats why they say it's a value of max 7% impact from each.

My guess is that a maxed out player with highest possible values in looter prof stands and efficiency in gear would end up
at MAs goal at the *collectivly* set return of 98% (or whatever value they have set).
Reason why an individual can go above this is due to we collectivly don't reach that goal MA have and therefor there are
values to grab for those above.
I'm not surprised if the curve for that extra is exponential so only those in top will get notably more.
If everyone would have the same set up, skills and so on everyone would probably be close to same return in a longterm.

One thing I wonder over is why so many see loot 2.0 as something completly new. It isn't. Basics are still there from loot 1.0.

 

[wizz]

It's more likely that after they introduced loot 2.0 with all new parameters that increased loot, that they lowered loot with efficiency
and looter prof stands to balance it out.
It isn't so that we increase our loot with these two, we reduce the loss by increasing these.
Thats why they say it's a value of max 7% impact from each.

My guess is that a maxed out player with highest possible values in looter prof stands and efficiency in gear would end up
at MAs goal at the *collectivly* set return of 98% (or whatever value they have set).
Reason why an individual can go above this is due to we collectivly don't reach that goal MA have and therefor there are
values to grab for those above.
I'm not surprised if the curve for that extra is exponential so only those in top will get notably more.
If everyone would have the same set up, skills and so on everyone would probably be close to same return in a longterm.

One thing I wonder over is why so many see loot 2.0 as something completly new. It isn't. Basics are still there from loot 1.0.

One way or another, if more people get more return (or less loss as you describe), others will have to lose more to compensate more players getting higher returns because the average will stay the same (unless MA will settle for less).

 

[Joat]

One way or another, if more people get more return (or less loss as you describe), others will have to lose more to compensate more players getting higher returns because the average will stay the same (unless MA will settle for less).

Its more likely that the extra I mentioned will be lower so those above the set value will drop down since
they get less from this.
So those that will "lose" are those above even though this isn't a loss, they just don't get as much as they used to
since this boosted loot will be lower and lower when more players getting higher.
Those below will stay the same if they keep doing exact same thing.

 

[James Francis]

what deacay you have on your armor ?

spend to get back

 

[wizz]

Its more likely that the extra I mentioned will be lower so those above the set value will drop down since
they get less from this.
So those that will "lose" are those above even though this isn't a loss, they just don't get as much as they used to
since this boosted loot will be lower and lower when more players getting higher.
Those below will stay the same if they keep doing exact same thing.

ok, so what you say is that the ones who now have 98% will be chopped down to lets say 96% (for example)?

In that case, saving up for those fancy I-get-98%-return-weapons might not give you the long term result that many crave.

 

[Sirhc]

There is no guarantee of success and in Mayhem there are very few mark up items in Mayhem loot which makes it difficult. That being said I look at the overall picture in every session I play, not just TT in and TT out. I think I did quite well this Easter Mayhem even with no major rewards (rare tokens, 5+ digit hofs, rare items, or high TT ESIs). Outside of these events I am always positioning my avatar in a way to take advantage of mark up. So I calculate everything during Mayhem shrapnel conversion, skills, boxes, and what scant few items pop up in loot and look at how it affects my PED card balance over time. The most notable things this Mayhem were skill gains, mayhem tokens, one small 4-digit loot, and items in the boxes I opened, compared to last Easter Mayhem there was marked improvement.

I've made some investments in some specific skills and gear in the last few months that have really changed my loot in general. I don't have some super uber loot 2.0 weapon either but I have a variety of options and levels to choose from anytime I play. I base my style of play on feedback from the system to mitigate ped losss. If I didn't see improvements I would be backtracking big time in terms of everything in EU.

I didn't have unlimited amounts of time to play this Mayhem but I did manage to complete a few small goals so I am happy. Did I have bad sessions? Yeah its par for the course with EU but I was able to take advantage of the better times when they cycled around as well. I don't have an option to set it and forget it with my avatar nor hire people to play it 24/7 so every hour I play I am engaged and can react real time to what I am experiencing. I've been playing that way since PE aside from doing a few large crafting runs when auto-crafting was implemented.

If I'm not having fun and not happy during a session I sign off and do something else. Don't let FOMO drain your ped card or ruin your day.

 

[Joat]

ok, so what you say is that the ones who now have 98% will be chopped down to lets say 96% (for example)?

In that case, saving up for those fancy I-get-98%-return-weapons might not give you the long term result that many crave.

Exactly, but only in theory. There just aren't enough of gear to create a situation like that.
Level 100 in looter prof stands will probably be exotic for the vast majority, but at the same time not impossible
as it is with gears for everyone.

 

[Nik-Elas]

"This is how mindark is taking all yours money on mayhem hunts."

Are they in your house threatening you to depo and play?
Heard of self control?
Ever heard the word quit?

 

[Iceman2003]

is 93% not close to expectation on robots? Certainly within a couple of % id imagine. What is your robot looter?

My Robot looter atm is close to 45lvl, Ive started this mayhem bit below lvl40. The thing is also that Im not getting any big multis, x1000 x2000 are not existing for me whatever im doing. Cycled almost 800k peds with max loot 1,5k on christmas mayhem, doing most of the time cat4/5 mobs.

 

[atomicstorm]

Thread incomplete. Title clickbait. You said this is how, but didn't show how just that your results are unsatisfactory for you. That's not informational.