Suggestion: tier system re-balancing for costs, ingredient availability, extreme slowness in some categories

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slither

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The problem with 2.0 high eco weapons is that the tiering system wasn't updated with 2.0. dam/pec was a big factor in tiering costs and now that we have uber eco 2.0 weapons the tiering costs are crazy.
 

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Tier costs are in perfect balance with the entire items in the history of EU or a tleast is what balance manager is trying to tell us (I hope its not the same 2016 easter ring balance manager).They only represent the quality of the item you are trying to upgrade.If you can't afford it leave it for someone else more competitive in that field.
Just because there are items to be tiered in this universe it doesn't mean everyone should buy one and when it tick.9 you should immediately click it.
You are basically buying shares of a particular item.You pay MA (in this case you cry to obtain freebies) to beat other players.Go hard or go home.
 

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Tier costs are in perfect balance with the entire items in the history of EU or a tleast is what balance manager is trying to tell us (I hope its not the same 2016 easter ring balance manager).They only represent the quality of the item you are trying to upgrade.If you can't afford it leave it for someone else more competitive in that field.
Just because there are items to be tiered in this universe it doesn't mean everyone should buy one and when it tick.9 you should immediately click it.
You are basically buying shares of a particular item.You pay MA (in this case you cry to obtain freebies) to beat other players.Go hard or go home.
you are assuming that ma uses the right formula,and that has not always been the case in the past(the arsonistic iii TEN chp )
ma admitted thye used the wrong formula and adjusted the tieringcosts with an factor of 10 orso,that is an huge difference,so id like to know for sure if they didnt use the wrong formula again on arsochips

i dont mind spending peds,but i do mind spending way to much on an fault
 

messi91

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you are assuming that ma uses the right formula,and that has not always been the case in the past(the arsonistic iii TEN chp )
ma admitted thye used the wrong formula and adjusted the tieringcosts with an factor of 10 orso,that is an huge difference,so id like to know for sure if they didnt use the wrong formula again on arsochips

i dont mind spending peds,but i do mind spending way to much on an fault
If they will admit a mistake again I'm sure they will refund anyone who spend more than they should if that's the case.
The stats on arso4 fen looks solid.I don't think an adjustment will be done but I won't be surprised if that happen.It won't be the first time they do mistakes.
gl
 

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If I'm correct, higher tier costs were put in place for the newer generation of items so that they won't immediately outclass the old generation of items.

There's a reason T10 M83 can still fit in Cat 7, what with lr-60 aug being potentially more powerful starting in cat 6...

Zho...

edit: my math is bad lr-60 aug will outclass everything in cat 6
 

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Would be nice to be able to un-tier each tier and return the tt value in uni-ammo :)
 

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the tiercosts of the arsonistic iii TEN edition were lowered substantially after an thread here at pfc 5 years ago,ma admitted it handled the wrong formula,
maybe that is the case also for the new arsonistic iv FEn editions ?
anyway..maybe the owners have to sent some supportcases asking if these costs are because they used an wrong formula just like 5 years ago ?
I am 99% sure the same problem that they "fixed" for 3 is there for 4 and support case sent. I think the problem with arso chip that they worked-around last time for arso 3 is the dmg over time which is not reflected correctly in formula. It is crazy to tier it at the same cost as imk2, but yea there are people around who are doing it anyway.

The problem with 2.0 high eco weapons is that the tiering system wasn't updated with 2.0. dam/pec was a big factor in tiering costs and now that we have uber eco 2.0 weapons the tiering costs are crazy.
indeed imho as well, it is cheap for them to increase eco for new items as it does not have (huge) impact so it drove the tier costs into sky

Tier costs are in perfect balance with the entire items in the history of EU or a tleast is what balance manager is trying to tell us (I hope its not the same 2016 easter ring balance manager).They only represent the quality of the item you are trying to upgrade.If you can't afford it leave it for someone else more competitive in that field.
Just because there are items to be tiered in this universe it doesn't mean everyone should buy one and when it tick.9 you should immediately click it.
You are basically buying shares of a particular item.You pay MA (in this case you cry to obtain freebies) to beat other players.Go hard or go home.
imho it is the same approach as the easter ring balancing - "who cares as long as we get some $ out of it". the tier prices were never in balance especially for high end armor - also the quality part of it (dpp, efficiency) has changed over time and the items cost as well.
I think not clicking is a very decent advise as we all saw how it went with the imk2 t10 (such dedication, awesome!) asking price of 125k and then having to wait for a Bori to arrive in the game and buy it for 90k or so.
Though I would still think that it should be crazy expensive to buy event weapons based on dps not the grinder guns.



And bump for this

2. some tier components are quite N/A like mentioned here and reflected in the component prices
* tier 3, 7, 8 components
* opals
 

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the tiercosts of the arsonistic iii TEN edition were lowered substantially after an thread here at pfc 5 years ago,ma admitted it handled the wrong formula,
maybe that is the case also for the new arsonistic iv FEn editions ?

i own 1 and id like to tier it,but the costs are just absurd,i would think ma would like for us to have more turnover thus lower the tiercosts,
anyway..maybe the owners have to sent some supportcases asking if these costs are because they used an wrong formula just like 5 years ago ?
It wont be lowered. Tier cost for guns are related 100% to the effecienty:. Thats why when i saw the new FEN items, before they came out. I was like... yea gl tiering them ...

The arso chip is same. High effecienty= high tier cost.

I would say same goes for mining finders. But sadly we don't have so many out there to compare this with each other.

I have tiered several stuff with lets say "bad eco". The cost been minimal due to that.
 

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this is not true, efficiency is not the only attribute of the formula same as dpp never was the only one.
imho it is even still dpp related as for example modmerc and imk2 stayed same tier costs although their efficiency is quite different
also as multiple people confirmed, arso chip 3 was "fixed" after many users complained in PCF about it being nonsensical, then arso chip 4 did exactly the same nonsense as it was not the formula that got fixed, there was an override for arso chip 3
It wont be lowered. Tier cost for guns are related 100% to the effecienty:. Thats why when i saw the new FEN items, before they came out. I was like... yea gl tiering them ...
 

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bump it up right now
 

girtsn

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Corwin

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Part of me agrees that the tiering system needs an overhaul, but the devil's advocate asks "what about those who have already invested hundreds of thousands into tier costs?"
Are we supposed to just say "sucks to suck" and expect those people to eat a huge loss while the rapid tiering of other items deflates the value of their heavy investment?
not really, having a fixed tier cost for any item at any level with same tier materials and quantity whould just contribute to raise items value not deprice them. The cheapest tiering it the more the raise in value of the t0 of that weap, contributing to make any player feel safer when its about to get on a new investment but increasing value and will to partecipate to events to gain a t0 one.

I heard many times people saying tiering is too costly, i better sell the tokens let others buy the item an wait after they tier it up and resell cheaper than it initial cost due to a ragequit.

this would raise low level tier item value and do not affect high level tiered items at all, but at same time will raise drastically tier 0 high level item value such as all prizes they give out with events or with loot.

just my opinion.
Atm if i want to buy an adj resto i dont save any more as long as i can have a divine chip with the bonus mission, but buying a t8-10 items will make me save billions of peds as long as i pay it like a tier 1. make tier costs cheaper and fixed for any items no matter which one it is and ull value every items instead, as well as decomplexing something that doesnt need to be complex and also giving a more stable value to the tier materials helping market. Its a win win for everybody as long as the guy who has the high tier likes it in the moment of using the items but hates it in the moment of selling it.
 

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Alukat123

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We can't get multipliers on tiering, right?

One change i'd like to see is tier upgrade always returning the percentage shown.
if it shows 15% material return on a 6 ped tier upgrade, then 90 pec of materials should be returned, not just a single blazaar fragment...
 

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well...

Part of me agrees that the tiering system needs an overhaul, but the devil's advocate asks "what about those who have already invested hundreds of thousands into tier costs?"
Are we supposed to just say "sucks to suck" and expect those people to eat a huge loss while the rapid tiering of other items deflates the value of their heavy investment?
release notes here
http://account.entropiauniverse.com/news/pages/2010/11/01/5440/index.xml


Entropia Universe 11.4.0 Release Notes
New Features and Major Updates

New Version of Tier Upgrade System

Today we release a new version of the Tier upgrade system. It is made to improve the overall balance. The focus has been on the balance between limited and unlimited items.

* Removed the requirement of a secondary item when tiering an unlimted item.
* Modified the TT costs for recipes to reflect the changes and keep the balance of the items.
* A tiering attempt will always succeed when a tiering attempt is possible and when you have the ingredients.
* Implemented that, besides the major tier step, each tiering attempt can result in an additional minor tier increase. As a maximum 0.4 levels can be raised in one attempt, for example, from 0.9 to 1.3. The increase rate is related to your skill; higher skill means higher chances of additional tiering levels.
* Introduced a feature that enables you to salvage some of the ingredients. The salvage rate is related to your skill; higher skill means higher chances of salvaging more ingredients.
* Changed the value per amount of the items pile of “gemstones” to be able to use them more dynamically in recipes.
Note: If you had any piles of "gemstones" in your Inventory before this release, the total value of the piles is still the same.


Due to these updates, the amount of piles needed for non-tiering blueprints is also changed, but the total PED value is still the same.
New Mindforce Chips
Just be glad you don't have to risk that second item and that every attempt will work... yes, cost does suck, but on the other hand, at least you will get a new tier level on the item you tier up as it will work 100% of the time.... if you ask them to change it, they may go back to the old way or some variation of the old way... lower the cost but increase the risk of item loss? Be careful what you wish for when it comes to Mindark.

That having been said, Mindark might be nice if they would make the tier increase costs give more benefit than it currently does... so instead of just getting a new slot to drop in an enhancer, they could make it so that each tier level adds in other buffs to the item that got tiered up... making each tier level essentially a 'new item' when it comes to benefits from that item.

tier system is somewhat similar to old Diablo II slot system... but with that system you had 'rune words' you could spell out with which items you put in in certain order to get added benefits... something like that wasn't possible in Entropia when tier system first came out, but now that they've buffified the virtual universe, it may be possible to go back and redo it to make it possible? Maybe add in a new 'rune' type system on top of the tier system we got now that uses similar type slots, etc... and gives out special combination buffs similar to what some armor sets do now... maybe even create sets of weapons + certain armors to combine to get better buffs, etc... The 'skill requirement' thing on armor isn't here yet, promised quite a while back... something similar to this added in when that comes in could essentially give Entropia a whole new 'generational' type spin just as L items did when they were added, etc.
 
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girtsn

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just an idea for tier enhancer and gem etc. availability - maybe those could drop from all the mayhem's as there are usually instances 1-10 or 1-5 they could drop needed tiering components 1-10 as well
this could create also a tiering mayhem during the events not only chipout + other types of mayhems
better than crapnel anyway
 

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[*] arso chip 4 is 10x the tier costs of arso chip 3, I remember there was a fix for arso chip 3 after people complained about its tier costs being crazy - suppose arso chip 4 again same formula applied?
[/LIST]
My opinion is that the FEN Arso is also 10x better then the TEN Arso. I value this new tool more then any other of my equipment, and will glady pay the current tier costs.

Im also glad that the tier costs of this item is high and aligned with imk2 and such, the superb advantages of such tool should not come free nor be common.

For the discussion if the tier system in general is unbalanced and to expensive is a debate I care not about. But anyone that belive tier costs for this specifik item is high compared to current tier costs of other items, have not fully understood the advantages of the FEN Arso.
 

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Your concern is understandable and as biased as mine owning one. You went ahead and already started to tier it up so you would not get back the difference in tier costs should there be any change - but it is a risk you are taking.

The whole tier system be as unbalanced as it is acts proportional and based on stats, arso fen is not 10x better than ten stats wise - and that is all that should matter.
A helper dps item with initial offering price of around 25k and tt tier costs of around 60k which is comparable to tier costs of some of the best standalone weapons is completely out of proportion. The more powerful the event weapons are, the less value there is for an over time dps addition.
Also if the item were so freaking great there would not be 15 of them.

My opinion is that the FEN Arso is also 10x better then the TEN Arso. I value this new tool more then any other of my equipment, and will glady pay the current tier costs.
 

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Your concern is understandable and as biased as mine owning one. You went ahead and already started to tier it up so you would not get back the difference in tier costs should there be any change - but it is a risk you are taking.
If there will be a change, which I highly doubt, I will not weep, I know the rules in the sandbox, dynamic.

A helper dps item with initial offering price of around 25k and tt tier costs of around 60k which is comparable to tier costs of some of the best standalone weapons is completely out of proportion. The more powerful the event weapons are, the less value there is for an over time dps addition.
Also if the item were so freaking great there would not be 15 of them.
If you think a)its in first hand an event tool, and b)that the FEN Arso is only a helper DPS item, then I understand you think its tier costs for it are to high. But Im sorry I do not share your analysis or conclusion, nor will I try to persuade you of mine, if you simply cant see the overall benefits for this tool for a hardcore hunter, which stretches furter then just stats wise and factors that you pointed out, then I think you should continue your crusade for lowering its tier costs.

Is 15 so many more then imk2s or Mod Mercs etc ingame? I think not. And also, how many of the top mayhem weapons from bc80 and up is available in the vendor at the monent, in infinity if they keep restocking.

And the more of those 15 Arsos that arent tier 10 besides mine, the better :rolleyes:.

My :twocents:for this subject stands fast, FEN Arso tier costs are proportional and justified compared to other items.
 

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understood, we agree to disagree on the matter of arso chip

this instance of "my crusade" is not only about arso chip though as the first post says - in general the tier system looks adapted to 2008 where the modfap was 400k or something, armor costs have always been stupid as it is times 7 the cost, tier 5.5 unchanged for a year on a fap using it every day is crazy and the unavailability of components like t7, t8, opals, etc. silly too.

then I think you should continue your crusade for lowering its tier costs
 

girtsn

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