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Tiering Compensation

Few Scars said:
I am surprised there have not been any formal MA/FPC responses so far?

Cheers
Bjorn
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Remember when Squall tt'd his amp, that thread went on for several days before an announcement happened.

They will be monitoring.... this is their forum now. :cool: <- my best agent smith smilie
 
I tiered my Boar Thighs and at least on the smaller items the MU of the old system is reflected in the new system. Cost to tier my Boar thighs with new system would have equaled that of the old system + insurance.

Unfortunately, if MA did this with the high end items like Burnsey pointed out they said they had done, then a MM would cost over 10k PED per click to tier with today's system. So to those who used the old system and tiered high end items.... be thankful they didn't wait another year to do this or you's would have paid all that insurance 5x over as your items reached higher tiers.

I WOULD however like an answer to one question that was asked......

Where the f'k did all the lost items go? Evidently not back into the loot pool. :(

Menace
 
Oleg said:
This is an important point which many seem to have overlooked.

Most of the people tiering high-end items used insurance services, preferring to pay a larger fee without shouldering the risk, rather than pay a small 'fee' which had a small risk of turning into a very large one.
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I think there is an oversight somewhere here. I have stated this earlier, but I tiered ALL my armor for under 200 ped. In the previous system it would have cost more than this to insure just one piece ( martial thigh =4k to 5k, at 5%=200-250). Even with opals at 800%, I will still be able to tier my dragon breath to tier 3 for much less than 1500ped - the price I paid for tier 1. I'm not sure where this false information is coming from - the TT cost of ingredients is nothing in comparison to the insurance cost in the old system. The old system Tier 5 cost 100% (minimum) of item markup. I doubt it will cost 150kpeds TT to get an MM to Tier 5, or TIer 10 for that matter. I also highly doubt an MM costs 7.5kped in TT for tier 1. Even if it cost half of this, it would be a bargain.
 
Immortal said:
I think there is an oversight somewhere here. I have stated this earlier, but I tiered ALL my armor for under 200 ped. In the previous system it would have cost more than this to insure just one piece ( martial thigh =4k to 5k, at 5%=200-250). Even with opals at 800%, I will still be able to tier my dragon breath to tier 3 for much less than 1500ped - the price I paid for tier 1. I'm not sure where this false information is coming from - the TT cost of ingredients is nothing in comparison to the insurance cost in the old system. The old system Tier 5 cost 100% (minimum) of item markup. I doubt it will cost 150kpeds TT to get an MM to Tier 5, or TIer 10 for that matter. I also highly doubt an MM costs 7.5kped in TT for tier 1. Even if it cost half of this, it would be a bargain.
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the MM costs 1100 peds or so tt for tier one in the new system. @ 5% of MV ~150k, a tier upgrader would have charged you around 7.5-8k to tier that gun. the difference being, what is ma getting. in this system ma is getting paid, in the old system a tier upgrader got paid on a success and a person offering their item for use got paid on a failure.

ppl should remember the miserable gear market we've seen for two years and that item drain was actually a good thing for that buyers market we had. a lot of ppl gladly offered their items for tiering who couldn't find anyone willing to buy those items period. infact, it was their very best chance of selling their items for what they wanted in ped. good luck selling off a couple shadow parts now in the system where someone doesn't need your item for the process anymore.
 
Darth Vader said:
I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further
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I think that quote can apply here.

When the foot guard stuff started, when armor decay for equip started, when the clothes decay started, when I was not happy with changes, I changed my play style.

I bought 1 foot guard to cover all my sets (I still dont have footies for everything).

I hardly wear clothes.

I don't use armor for "ornamental" purposes.

I reduced deposits.

I sometimes played lesser.

I was not happy about things and I made my views known in the respective threads here.

When the tiering stuff started, I wasn't interested in tiering either. Sure, it might make me more eco / effcient / better, but at great risk or cost. Neither which I was prepared to get involved in. I am still not sure if I want to tier any of my gear yet.

When a new VU comes in, those who hunt / mine / craft first know that there may be bugs in the game preventing them from looting, crashing them at crucial times, weird issues which create losses.

Those who did the tiering knew that MA has changed things at various times in the pass, without any notice. You could have been like one of the rest of us which were not satisfied in certain aspects of the game and so do not get involved in those aspects. You choose to get involved. Nobody forced you to tier your items. You could have played just as well, as eco you currently are.

You know the cost / benefit risks you took. And you know things have a habit of changing and breaking in the game.

What if tomorrow tiered items drop in the loot? What if a Mod Merc Tier 10 drops? Or a Mod Fap Tier 10 drops? Are you going to scream saying that you spend X amount of peds to get tiered to level 2,3,4 or whatever and noone should loot a tier 10 item?

Most of us have been burned in various ways in the past. Those who are adaptable and wary tend to survive. Never take any word from anyone as the truth, cos the truth always changes here. Thats the only constant.

I wouldn't be surprised if things were made to adapt to you, as changes were made when someone else TT'ed a mining amp. I guess those who deposit the most have the most influence in how the game gets played, and we, the lesser mortals get lost in the process although some of us has made relatively large deposits ourselves.

It will be interesting to watch this played out.
 
Immortal said:
The old system Tier 5 cost 100% (minimum) of item markup. I doubt it will cost 150kpeds TT to get an MM to Tier 5, or TIer 10 for that matter.
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There ain't a tier enhancer in-game that makes a MM truly WORTH 10k above MU (let alone 150k). And that's the entire reason why I don't think compensation should be offered. People with more money than God spent it foolishly and now they're asking about compensation.

Menace
 
The whole change was made to make more money for MA, not to benefit the players.
My reasoning is thus: To make enhancers, you must buy the TT component at 1 ped each. This amounts to a 1 ped-per-click tax that goes straight to MA. MA wanted to sell more of these, so they made it cheaper to tier items, so that more enhancers will be sold.
Of course the flaw in my theory is that not everyone actually uses enhancers even if they tier up, but I'm sure it will lead to a somewhat increased usage of enhancers.
 
Menace said:
There ain't a tier enhancer in-game that makes a MM truly WORTH 10k above MU (let alone 150k). And that's the entire reason why I don't think compensation should be offered. People with more money than God spent it foolishly and now they're asking about compensation.

Menace
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You are one of the people who don't understand the tier system. You don't even grasp what the issue here is, even though there is ten pages of it (though admittedly eight of those pages are from people who don't understand what the issue is either).

This post of yours has seriously got to be one of the most ill-informed I've seen for a long time...and that's saying something for this forum.
 
Menace said:
There ain't a tier enhancer in-game that makes a MM truly WORTH 10k above MU (let alone 150k). And that's the entire reason why I don't think compensation should be offered. People with more money than God spent it foolishly and now they're asking about compensation.

Menace
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So u only argument is jealousy.

U don't even try to understand how old and new tier system work and who are really need the compensation. It's not player who use assurance but all middle player who try to use the system themselves and lost item without got a tier open.
 
Spend 1200ped to a guy that do tiering jobs,

he tiered up an item of mine from tier 0.9 to tier 1.0 and from tier 1.9 to tier 2.0

first job 350ped, next time 750ped, the next day after I payed 750ped I could of tiered the item up myself with no risk involved.

There is a scheme involved, -
MA let the players do the dirty work of tiering, the ones willing to risk upon getting payed had gotten payed, now one party of the players that payed to get their items tiered are screwed,
 
I must put a comment on this.

1st - There should be no compensation - MA can change the things, you should adapt.

2nd - I feel with people who lost their items but see point no.1

3rd - I hate how MA is lying to us!!!!, FUCK YOU MA, you have told us that items lost during tiered items are going to loot pool. Have someone looted item lost during tiering process? Hell no!, im now going to create thread with this question and i hope someone from FPC can comment this. As it is MA stuff but very much also FPC issue. As we are on Calypso.!
 
Under the old system people complained about the need for secondary items especially when trying to tier rare or unique gear. Under the new system we dont need a secondary item and ... well ... lookit that people are STILL complaining.

MA can't seem to win either way. So they might as well just do whatever they like, people are just going to continue to piss and moan anyway :/
 
addz said:
Under the old system people complained about the need for secondary items especially when trying to tier rare or unique gear. Under the new system we dont need a secondary item and ... well ... lookit that people are STILL complaining.

MA can't seem to win either way. So they might as well just do whatever they like, people are just going to continue to piss and moan anyway :/
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Less people complain, far less, and unique items are now being tiered. They got it right - 2nd time round. :)
 
Mega said:
Less people complain, far less, and unique items are now being tiered. They got it right - 2nd time round. :)
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You seem to miss the point. The way old system worked was stated as essential by the developers. It has been months since the change and there has not be even a single statement as to why the change was made, why it was needed, and why it was essential and how it would effect the users of the earlier system.

Overall it diminishes the integrity of the systems ingame and erodes the trust of players and this can be seen first hand in the current market trends.

One can only imagine the worst for old users of the old system being reimplemented.

Tamers, Hanger owners, Makeup artists should probably expect the time and money they invested in their respected systems to be lost.
 
burnsey said:
You seem to miss the point. The way old system worked was stated as essential by the developers. It has been months since the change and there has not be even a single statement as to why the change was made, why it was needed, and why it was essential and how it would effect the users of the earlier system.

Overall it diminishes the integrity of the systems ingame and erodes the trust of players and this can be seen first hand in the current market trends.

One can only imagine the worst for old users of the old system being reimplemented.

Tamers, Hanger owners, Makeup artists should probably expect the time and money they invested in their respected systems to be lost.
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But did it work?

It worked for a few people with high value items who asked insurance for the secondary item in case it went *poof*

(which it did on a few occasions)

There is no way any expensive item would have got past tier 5 with the old way worked.

Whoever came up with the original system hadn't worked out how rare and how few people had the professional skills to tier to the later levels (% chance of recovering secondary item was....?).

"Better late than never" would be how I'd review the Entropia tiering system.

----------------

The missing systems I still have faith will come back better and improved on their VU 9.4 incarnations, but its been a very long wait. I own 3 pet deeds, and I know people who have hangar deeds, beacons, and plenty of makeup in storage.
 
burnsey said:
You seem to miss the point. The way old system worked was stated as essential by the developers. It has been months since the change and there has not be even a single statement as to why the change was made, why it was needed, and why it was essential and how it would effect the users of the earlier system.
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Got no idea why they changed the system so that we can not lose then item when tiering. I found the first system for tiers to SUCK BALLS and the first thought of it was honestly "Oh they will do this to rip some players of their high end items that cost 100k + and once they have removed a few of those items, they will change it"

damn right... and not a word from MA why they changed it. Blow me I say to them :)



I find the current tiering system great.
 
I'm late to the discussion, but imho, this is actually MA's kryptonite: pissing off ubers.

Look at all the crap they left in the game because ubers didn't complain: enhancers, coloring, textures, decoys, solid trees, etc. etc. etc.

I find it sad actually that pissing off 1000% of the player base (I'm including the midbies who quit out of frustration) and only changed their stupid ideas when 1% didn't like it.

I'm hoping the Universe United soc adds every uber in the entire game, and creates a single voice that forces real change in the game.
 
Superhal said:
I find it sad actually that pissing off 1000% of the player base (I'm including the midbies who quit out of frustration) and only changed their stupid ideas when 1% didn't like it.
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I'm super impressed they managed to (allegedly) piss off 10 times more players than are actually playing. That deserves some kind of mathematical hyperbole award.
 
LangeTobias said:
Got no idea why they changed the system so that we can not lose then item when tiering. I found the first system for tiers to SUCK BALLS and the first thought of it was honestly "Oh they will do this to rip some players of their high end items that cost 100k + and once they have removed a few of those items, they will change it"

damn right... and not a word from MA why they changed it. Blow me I say to them :)



I find the current tiering system great.
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Mega said:
And this will be the viewpoint of the majority of the playerbase.
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You are still not responding to my points. I've never argued for the old system to remain as it was. I find the new system to be superior as well, however I think the implementation of it and the communication involved in presenting it is terrible as well as considerations for people who believed in MA's reasonings and word for word description and reasoning for the systems as they were explained.

If you re-read the post I quoted from the MA development team, it seems like they made up the post in a hurry to quell the dissent with the system as it was. After the system became accepted it becomes a hard pill to swallow for people who used the old system when the changes where made with no communication except a line item in the VU notes that said the second item requirement was removed.

Maybe people will think twice before utilizing a new system, perhaps if you let others beta test them for a year and see if MA nerfs them before you give it a try.
 
KijkkiJikki said:
I'm super impressed they managed to (allegedly) piss off 10 times more players than are actually playing. That deserves some kind of mathematical hyperbole award.
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I'm including the people who quit.

Example:

1100 active players
1000 quit
100 active, 10X pissed off.
 
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