Tierupgrade costs

[John B Knight]

I took a moment to compare the tierupgrade costs for a few Armor sets just for t3comps and found something interesting.

armor set (total protection)	T3 comps/protection point	T3 comps	Total protection	durability
Chelydra (41)	0.170731707​	7​	41​	3900​
Salamander (75)	0.226666667​	17​	75​	3000​
Paneleon Spec Imperium (92)	0.336956522​	31​	92​	3000​
Viceroy modified (94)	0.361702128​	34​	94​	3800​
Jaguar (105)	0.466666667​	49​	105​	3350​
eMINE (115)	0.591304348​	68​	115​	2700​
Boar adjusted (121)	0.719008264​	87​	121​	3400​
Jaguar adjusted (130)	0.938461538​	122​	130​	3700​
Augmented Gorgon (147)	1.469387755​	216​	147​	3300​
Merry Mayhem (160)	2.15​	344​	160​	3500​
Augmented Imperium (164)	2.536585366​	416​	164​	4500​
Sand Stormer (170)	3.058823529​	520​	170​	5000​
Protector of the Empire (178)	3.764044944​	670​	178​	5000​
Titan (180)	3.994444444​	719​	180​	5200​
Shadow (184)	4.364130435​	803​	184​	5000​
RX OpTac x2 (187)	4.711229947​	881​	187​	5100​
Chronicle (194)	5.505154639​	1068​	194​	5000​
Perfected Gorgon (202)	6.361386139​	1285​	202​	4400​
Mayhem (210)	7.114285714​	1494​	210​	3300​
Eon (215)	8.241860465​	1772​	215​	5000​
TWEN PotE (220)	8.890909091​	1956​	220​	5000​
Supremacy (234)	10.58974359​	2478​	234​	5200​
Sentinel SGA (243)	11.47325103​	2788​	243​	5400​
Chronicle TEN (241)	11.4813278​	2767​	241​	6200​
Wormslayer (246)	11.90243902​	2928​	246​	6400​
Lord/Lady Kraster Helmet (315)	12.24761905​	3858​	315​	1300​
Supremacy SGA (258)	12.44186047​	3210​	258​	5600​
Carramone (293)	12.63481229​	3702​	293​	2500​
imperial hazen (270)	12.65555556​	3417​	270​	4300​
modified shadow (264)	12.70833333​	3355​	264​	6000​

As you can see the higher the total protection of an Armor set the more the respective cost scales up.
Could be worth to make a chart out of it and extend the sample of compared armors.

As a matter of discussion do you think that the tier upgrade cost of armor sets should scale up as it seemingly does or should it be a linear increase based on protection provided ?
Especially with the consideration that there is more and more new armorsets that focus on heavy protection on a few stats and therefor become much cheaper to upgrade then older less focused armorsets.

EDIT: Included more armor sets and durability stat.

 

[Starkiller]

You might have gotten the last two armor sets in the wrong order, otherwise it's not linearly scaling, or did I misunderstand anything?

 

[John B Knight]

You might have gotten the last two armor sets in the wrong order, otherwise it's not linearly scaling, or did I misunderstand anything?

I have both sets and thats their ratio - i suspect that durability difference between both sets mod shadow 6k vs hazen 4.3k might play a minor role in the overall upgrade costs which is why the postions of both sets are interchanged.

If the cost increase was linear you would see the same ratio for each of the armor sets, but what you actually see is an continuously increasing cost on a per point basis. Someone good at making graphs could probably make it easier to see.

 

[RickEngland]

You could have your entire house rendered in gold leaf 10x for extra sun protection. I've not seen a advert of someone offering such a service. But if they did, i'd certainly question myself... "just because there's an option to pay to have it done, doesn't mean I should".

 

[John B Knight]

Added this basic chart to first post, as pointed out before durability could play a minor role in cost which would explain the interchanged positions of hazen and mod shadow.

 

[Msturlese]

Get evader to 150 and use adj pixie......

more seriously, tiering benefit is really modest and after tier2 that is cheap in term of materials, T3 is the obstacle on all sets (expecially because it is 7 pieces)

as Rick correctly points, you can upgrade, should you?

if i get the time i will try to produce an excel sheet based on Legend Armor analysis to see cheapest way to confront each mob, to see problem from a different perspective.

and.... Why the hell a (UL) armor decay in stats when hit and (L) dont?

 

[John B Knight]

Get evader to 150 and use adj pixie......

more seriously, tiering benefit is really modest and after tier2 that is cheap in term of materials, T3 is the obstacle on all sets (expecially because it is 7 pieces)

as Rick correctly points, you can upgrade, should you?

if i get the time i will try to produce an excel sheet based on Legend Armor analysis to see cheapest way to confront each mob, to see problem from a different perspective.

and.... Why the hell a (UL) armor decay in stats when hit and (L) dont?

The point of this thread isnt the question if everything should be upgraded, its more a question of balance when looking at existing protections.
Newer armors like pan spec, titan, perfected gorgon have either by luck or knowledge been designed with alot of very focused protection which can be further enhanced tremendously at very affordable cost while older armors do have alot of mixed stats that dont help much on overall protection but drive tiercosts up alot making them a moneysink to tier past 3.
Does it make sence to scale the cost because an armor has an extra stat of 5 points somewhere even though those 5points dont really change by a noticeable amount from tiering ? Or should it maybe be more like dmg enhancer consumption rates where the cost goes up based on actual benefit provided, eg 5x 5 point protections should be cheaper then one time 25 point protection ?

 

[pechunter]

Modified Viceroy has same mats as Adj pixie. Dirt cheap to tier for some reason.

 

[jak]

Can add to the chart:
Carramone cost 3702 tier3 comps and has 293 total protection. 12.6348 is ratio.

And it's so expensive to tier the entire set that enhancer community is losing out on higher enhancers! It litterely will cost more than a mansion to tier my set to t10! Insane.

Yes, it should be re-ballanced! With TT returned when tiering it was a step in the correct direction!!!

 

[John B Knight]

Included a few more armors and durability respectively.

armor set	T3 comps/protection point	T3 comps	Total protection	durability
Chelydra	0.170731707​	7​	41​	3900​
Salamander	0.226666667​	17​	75​	3000​
Viceroy modified	0.361702128​	34​	94​	3800​
Jaguar	0.466666667​	49​	105​	3350​
eMINE	0.591304348​	68​	115​	2700​
Boar adjusted	0.719008264​	87​	121​	3400​
Jaguar adjusted	0.938461538​	122​	130​	3700​
Merry Mayhem	2.15​	344​	160​	3500​
Sand Stormer	3.058823529​	520​	170​	5000​
Titan	3.994444444​	719​	180​	5200​
Shadow	4.364130435​	803​	184​	5000​
RX OpTac x2	4.711229947​	881​	187​	5100​
Chronicle	5.505154639​	1068​	194​	5000​
Eon	8.241860465​	1772​	215​	5000​
Supremacy	10.58974359​	2478​	234​	5200​
Chronicle TEN	11.4813278​	2767​	241​	6200​
Wormslayer	11.90243902​	2928​	246​	6400​
Supremacy SGA	12.44186047​	3210​	258​	5600​
Carramone	12.63481229​	3702​	293​	2500​
imperial hazen	12.65555556​	3417​	270​	4300​
modified shadow	12.70833333​	3355​	264​	6000​

 

[Killahbee]

Does tt of the armor have any influence on the higher armors?

 

[John B Knight]

Does tt of the armor have any influence on the higher armors?

I think we can exclude that possibility because the tierupgrade cost stays the same for armor pieces of the same set even if they have different tt - eg gloves harness.

 

[Orion]

@John B Knight :
Great research idea!
And I am astonished to find my Shadow at a rather "cheap" tier cost level.

Actually tiering an armor is so expensive, that almost always buying the next better armor with stats equally to the tiered lower armor is the cheaper choice.

May i suggest you update your first post with all the new charts, since this is what we see first.
Thank you!

 

[John B Knight]

May i suggest you update your first post with all the new charts, since this is what we see first.
Thank you!

Updated, still could need the help of some math experts to figure out the exact impact of durability on the scaling of costs.
I have looked at ascension armor and durability doesnt seem to have a visible impact on the scale of costs of low protection armors whereas it clearly has a meassurable visible impact on hazen and carramone.

 

[John B Knight]

Would love to include perfected gorgon, perfected imperium, mayhem armor, pote twen, dsec augmented and/or other rarities in this table/chart.
So if you have some data that is currently missing please post it here.

EDIT:
Perfected Gorgon 1285 T3comps, 202 Total protection, 4400 durability, 6.361386138 ratio - thanks Dyso

 

[DrGirlfriend]

The point of this thread isnt the question if everything should be upgraded, its more a question of balance when looking at existing protections.
Newer armors like pan spec, titan, perfected gorgon have either by luck or knowledge been designed with alot of very focused protection which can be further enhanced tremendously at very affordable cost while older armors do have alot of mixed stats that dont help much on overall protection but drive tiercosts up alot making them a moneysink to tier past 3.
Does it make sence to scale the cost because an armor has an extra stat of 5 points somewhere even though those 5points dont really change by a noticeable amount from tiering ? Or should it maybe be more like dmg enhancer consumption rates where the cost goes up based on actual benefit provided, eg 5x 5 point protections should be cheaper then one time 25 point protection ?

Buy new armor then, old armor should be shitty it’s old

 

[Alainax]

Buy new armor then, old armor should be shitty it’s old

Even if the old ones have better stats? Seems counter productive.

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

Even if the old ones have better stats? Seems counter productive.

It's better to just ignore them most of the time.

Mathematically, no armor should be upgraded unless it's base defense you care about is 30+ IMO

 

[Alina]

Sentinel SGA , 2788 , 243

11,473251​

 

[Rick Sanchez]

Augmented imperium T3 is 416 comps. I think Lunchbox or Vizz might have perfected cost as LB calculated it for me once based on aug - not sure if Vizz has reached T2.99 on any of his pieces yet.

edit: 164 total protection = 2.53658 ratio @ 4500 durability

 

[John B Knight]

Buy new armor then, old armor should be shitty it’s old

i will bite - the current system would theretically allow mindark or a planet partner to design a new armor set with 140 pure impact dmg while being dirt cheap to tier to T10 - allowing for 200+ impact protection while mindark in the current system would likely not consider it toplvl armor meaning it likely could drop often or easily be produceable - it hasnt happened yet but we are on a path towards it

 

[Yazuki]

i will bite - the current system would theretically allow mindark or a planet partner to design a new armor set with 140 pure impact dmg while being dirt cheap to tier to T10 - allowing for 200+ impact protection while mindark in the current system would likely not consider it toplvl armor meaning it likely could drop often or easily be produceable - it hasnt happened yet but we are on a path towards it

True they need to normalize cost so mod shadow is cheaper to tier up

 

[DrGirlfriend]

i will bite - the current system would theretically allow mindark or a planet partner to design a new armor set with 140 pure impact dmg while being dirt cheap to tier to T10 - allowing for 200+ impact protection while mindark in the current system would likely not consider it toplvl armor meaning it likely could drop often or easily be produceable - it hasnt happened yet but we are on a path towards it

That sounds awesome, why wouldn’t you want that? Cause it would devalue your old armor? Your old armor SHOULD be devalued it’s 10-20 years old. New items should always be better and push the meta

 

[John B Knight]

That sounds awesome, why wouldn’t you want that? Cause it would devalue your old armor? Your old armor SHOULD be devalued it’s 10-20 years old. New items should always be better and push the meta

releasing such an armor wouldnt just devalue some specific armor it would devalue all armor and discourage spending money on tierupgrades for any such older armors (as one would have to assume the next hyper armor around the corner) having an overall bad impact on the ingame economy. Mindark has very strict balancing rules for the release of new weaponry these days because things went sideways in the past, but for armorsets they are potentially in for a repeat if they dont balance the system before something goes sideways.

You dont have to search for ulterior motives, just take a step back and look at the issue objectively rather then assuming you have an axe to grind

 

[Evey]

mayhem armor

1494 pcs, 3300 durability and 210 total protection

 

[Rick Sanchez]

That sounds awesome, why wouldn’t you want that? Cause it would devalue your old armor? Your old armor SHOULD be devalued it’s 10-20 years old. New items should always be better and push the meta

this is a recipe for power creep, which should be avoided

 

[moondog]

I have saved all tier components since I started playing. Upto and including tier 3 it is quite easy to obtain the tier compnents by grinding the correct mob. Once you get to tier 4, i generally save the tier compnents for upgrading weapons rather than armour.

When I was considering the cost of tier 4 on an armour set, i sold my existing armour and upgraded to a better armour instead

As to the results in John's original post, I am not surprised at all at this and this is reflected in the fact that most armours for sale are not above tier 3

 

[SuperFly]

i will bite - the current system would theretically allow mindark or a planet partner to design a new armor set with 140 pure impact dmg while being dirt cheap to tier to T10 - allowing for 200+ impact protection while mindark in the current system would likely not consider it toplvl armor meaning it likely could drop often or easily be produceable - it hasnt happened yet but we are on a path towards it

Here we go

 

[DrGirlfriend]

releasing such an armor wouldnt just devalue some specific armor it would devalue all armor and discourage spending money on tierupgrades for any such older armors (as one would have to assume the next hyper armor around the corner) having an overall bad impact on the ingame economy. Mindark has very strict balancing rules for the release of new weaponry these days because things went sideways in the past, but for armorsets they are potentially in for a repeat if they dont balance the system before something goes sideways.

You dont have to search for ulterior motives, just take a step back and look at the issue objectively rather then assuming you have an axe to grind

All of that sounds good for me and most users. I would love that, why do you make it sound bad?

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

Just make defense enhancers good, give them a 10% increase or 15% increase each enhancer. Doesn't MA want to ENOUCRAGE users to shoot above their level?

This would do it.