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To mindark: Just pay it out already

It's not about retaining "players". It's about retaining and creating new addicts. They need the carrot of "the dream" to be alive to turn new players into addicts. And it keeps the addicts stuck in the illusion that is actually possible for them to recover all the money they've lost... They just need to keep churning cause "that ATH is bound to happen eventually, right?".

It's essentially right out of the casino / lottery operators playbook.

It's pretty sad actually. I've spoken with a number of players privately about this over time and many have lost unbelievable sums of money over the years that would take multiple ATHs to recover but they keep putting money in. And I'm not talking millionaire types that $50k on a hand of blackjack is just a slow Friday night, I'm talking 9-5 "I hate my job but I'm there everyday" types that are handling over large chunks of their paychecks to MA each week. And so many falsely consider their avatar skills to hold justifiable value that can be sold when in reality they can't. There's not even enough ESI's that drop in several years for even 1 avatar to sell 500k skill points. And even if you can get the ESI's... nevermind that some skills just don't sell at any price - even if you ARE able to sell everything you're barely getting 10 cents on the dollar of what it would cost to buy those skills. And probably even less than that ratio of what you paid to acquire those skills in the first place.
 
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jambon said:
It's essentially right out of the casino / lottery operators playbook.
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The best one is returning players it's like sexed up loot for a few weeks you feel like an Uber then come second week after a few Ubers it goes to s*** and stays like that and NOTHING will change that until another vacation. Same s*** every time.
 
There are many different possible subtexts here. Is the claim that MindArk superficially inflates the upper tail of a new player's loot probability distribution? That there are too few avenues in Entropia for strategic differentiation leaving outcomes too tethered to luck in the first place? That MindArk should be but isn't superficially deflating or even capping the upper tail of a new player's loot probability distribution? Is the problem that new players ever get large jackpots, or is it the frequency/means by which they do?
 
jambon said:
It's not about retaining "players". It's about retaining and creating new addicts. They need the carrot of "the dream" to be alive to turn new players into addicts. And it keeps the addicts stuck in the illusion that is actually possible for them to recover all the money they've lost... They just need to keep churning cause "that ATH is bound to happen eventually, right?".

It's essentially right out of the casino / lottery operators playbook.

It's pretty sad actually. I've spoken with a number of players privately about this over time and many have lost unbelievable sums of money over the years that would take multiple ATHs to recover but they keep putting money in. And I'm not talking millionaire types that $50k on a hand of blackjack is just a slow Friday night, I'm talking 9-5 "I hate my job but I'm there everyday" types that are handling over large chunks of their paychecks to MA each week. And so many falsely consider their avatar skills to hold justifiable value that can be sold when in reality they can't. There's not even enough ESI's that drop in several years for even 1 avatar to sell 500k skill points. And even if you can get the ESI's... nevermind that some skills just don't sell at any price - even if you ARE able to sell everything you're barely getting 10 cents on the dollar of what it would cost to buy those skills. And probably even less than that ratio of what you paid to acquire those skills in the first place.
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I don't know a single player who thinks/plays with the expectation or "plan" to hit the number 1 ath to justify them playing. But, I don't doubt at least some may exist. But I don't think majority think like you say.
 
Griffith said:
I honestly don't know a single player who thinks/plays with the expectation or "plan" to hit the number 1 ath to justify them playing. But, I don't doubt at least some may exist. But I don't think majority think like you say.
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You're not entirely wrong... I purposed a theory a while back that most people are playing to be able to generate enough peds to simply play so they can generate enough peds to play. I mean the game loop for most people is simply trying to loot enough to stave off going broke and needing to deposit. To hit a large enough loot that you can repair all your stuff, maybe recover a few recent losses, upgrade a piece of gear so you can get back out there and take on something larger with the hope of continuing the loop. Playing with the hope of making just enough to allow them to continue to play.

And as a result 90% of the RCE aspect is pointless churn and overhead as peds received really don't have any value since they are never withdrawn. Part of the reason why HoFs are set to the value they are. They're just enough to get you feeling good, get some stuff and pad the bankroll a bit but not quite enough to recover all your losses and have you thinking it makes sense to withdraw any of it.

I mean most people will only ever withdraw if they do hit an ATH that puts them in profit. And as such, why not have all overhead and churn not be directly related to a RCE. It would be way better to be essentially tiered subscription based both for users and the company. Anyways, that's a whole discussion on its own that isn't overly popular with players. But there's a reason WoW still make more money every year than EU has made in its lifetime. I never understood why people will oppose a $15/mo subscription but happily lose $200 a month to keep the game "free". lol

I do think that pretty much everyone here initially started playing for the same reason though. Because the idea of making money is very appealing. I mean let's be real, that's honestly the only thing Entropia has going for it over any of the other MMO's out there. It doesn't having an amazing story, riveting action gameplay mechanics, a massive community and non-stop content updates..etc. It's whole shtick is that it's real cash you're playing with.

Why people choose to stick around has a lot of answers. And I think sunken cost fallacy, denial with a dash of addition all play a role. Whether or not people are consciously aware of it or not. Of course this is all excluding people that treat this simply as a business (traders, land owners...etc). And a very VERY small group that are actually leveraging the system to generate regular income (the "Messi's" of the game lol).
 
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Huge windfall loots are interesting and I don't think anyone would gripe about getting one but it is a very rare occurrence unless you are blessed by the loot server hamster in some way. In the 20 years I've been playing I've had one very short lived ATH that wouldn't get much attention today. I've had some other really cool loot experiences that are more of a carrot than what other people are looting and how much they are. 500Ks will come and go and then one day the paradigm will shift and a new #1 will be found. There is some crazy, yes even for me, risk involved in some of the really high single player ATHs.
 
jambon said:
I mean let's be real, that's honestly the only thing Entropia has going for it over any of the other MMO's out there.
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I would say it is one of the few things it has going for it...

The main one, other than obviously the RCE aspect, is the fact that your avatar is only limited by your PED card. You can go to level 10 and stop there, or you can push to over 250+ in profession levels. You are your own limit. I do not know of any other game that allows this kind of freedom (not saying they don't exist!)
 
jambon said:
You're not entirely wrong... I purposed a theory a while back that most people are playing to be able to generate enough peds to simply play so they can generate enough peds to play. I mean the game loop for most people is simply trying to loot enough to stave off going broke and needing to deposit. To hit a large enough loot that you can repair all your stuff, maybe recover a few recent losses, upgrade a piece of gear so you can get back out there and take on something larger with the hope of continuing the loop. Playing with the hope of making just enough to allow them to continue to play.

And as a result 90% of the RCE aspect is pointless churn and overhead as peds received really don't have any value since they are never withdrawn. Part of the reason why HoFs are set to the value they are. They're just enough to get you feeling good, get some stuff and pad the bankroll a bit but not quite enough to recover all your losses and have you thinking it makes sense to withdraw any of it.

I mean most people will only ever withdraw if they do hit an ATH that puts them in profit. And as such, why not have all overhead and churn not be directly related to a RCE. It would be way better to be essentially tiered subscription based both for users and the company. Anyways, that's a whole discussion on its own that isn't overly popular with players. But there's a reason WoW still make more money every year than EU has made in its lifetime. I never understood why people will oppose a $15/mo subscription but happily lose $200 a month to keep the game "free". lol

I do think that pretty much everyone here initially started playing for the same reason though. Because the idea of making money is very appealing. I mean let's be real, that's honestly the only thing Entropia has going for it over any of the other MMO's out there. It doesn't having an amazing story, riveting action gameplay mechanics, a massive community and non-stop content updates..etc. It's whole shtick is that it's real cash you're playing with.

Why people choose to stick around has a lot of answers. And I think sunken cost fallacy, denial with a dash of addition all play a role. Whether or not people are consciously aware of it or not. Of course this is all excluding people that treat this simply as a business (traders, land owners...etc). And a very VERY small group that are actually leveraging the system to generate regular income (the "Messi's" of the game lol).
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EU is just a platform that takes a fee for using it.
You compete vs other people and will gain only as much as you can outsmart/outwork (or cheat lol) others.
Take that aspect out, and nobody will be interested on this game anymore.
 
In loot 1.0 or before modified loot take place, loot was a lot more interesting and made you feel that there was a real chance to get some of the lost peds back. Not anymore and that's the reason I won't invest in my avatar anymore.

Until you run out of new players to "trick" it will be fine. The Mindark share holders say "Thank you". 😘
 
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