Info: Toulan crafting yields bounty exploit - confirm?

Svako

Mature
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Posts
45
Location
Slovakia
Society
Valhalla
Avatar Name
Pavol Svako Giertl
We can argue all we want, but we will never find out the answer, until we get official statement from MA.
I'm personally stopping this activity until this is answered, not worth to be called exploiter/get any sort of ban for EP1 craft lol...
Considering MA response times, I might as well sell the BP :D :D
 

IsDaDr

Hatchling
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Posts
3
This doesn't seem like an exploit, nor does it seem like something to worry about.

Reasons:

- The system tracks your ped input/output across all professions and thus if you're up, you're bound to come down and visa versa. It'll take care of itself, eventually.
- Welding Wire is Universal Ammunition for your Repair Tool yet Ospra and Alternative are two ingredients tied to only 2 of the 6 planets. Seems unbalanced.
- Toulan having a higher drop rate (I've also heard NI has an increased drop rate) only seems to lend itself to a balance mechanic moreso than an exploit.
- If you're going to gain anything from this, you're looking at spending weeks/months sitting there to collect WW BPs, then you have to sell them (thus generating economic activity) or craft them yourself which in turn also creates economic activity... on Rocktropia and Arkadia. Nobody is really benefitting (see first point) and you're not really playing the game if you're crafting EP1s all day. In the end, the little bits you do get out of it are a huge time sink.

I would encourage MindArk and Planet Partners to adapt strategies such as this for universal materials/blueprints/etc so that other planets have their place within the universal systems. Otherwise we'll risk them reworking blueprints and other items for new loot drops and content upgrades and all those materials you've been saving could end up being useless.

If it's already been going on for months and it was a problem they would have took action on the next PP update as they did with Cyrene.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see any good arguments in this thread otherwise.
Totally agree with this one MA keeps track of all loot.
Max i can make 15-20 ped crafting explosive all day and play other games.
By the end of week i have some ped to hunt but MA takes all the peds back so nonone is making money here.
It would be exploit if peiople were able to do same with ep4 and widraw big amount but with ep1 all the peds made goes back to the loot by hunting etc . :)
 

Fanan

Stalker
Joined
May 27, 2008
Posts
1,654
Location
Portugal
Avatar Name
Fanan Head Shot
Totally agree with this one MA keeps track of all loot.
Max i can make 15-20 ped crafting explosive all day and play other games.
By the end of week i have some ped to hunt but MA takes all the peds back so nonone is making money here.
It would be exploit if peiople were able to do same with ep4 and widraw big amount but with ep1 all the peds made goes back to the loot by hunting etc . :)
Well I had 500+ PED of deeds paying me 2 PEC / week but for you 15/20 PED a day plus MU's on explosives and residues is nothing because you going to loss that after. Is this a joke no?

What if you only do this EP1 craft on Toulan and nothing more? Is it fair?

There is none profession on the game that pays 100% TT+ consistently. Also you don't need to be present just come once a day to refill machine and we all know that you can play many games or execute many programs on our PCs at same time. Lol

Funny too how there is ppl disliking some posts on this thread. Do something Mindark?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pi-

Raffaele Meiers

Stalker
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
Posts
2,333
Society
Trigger Happy
Avatar Name
Rafaele Meiersos Rocko
This doesn't seem like an exploit, nor does it seem like something to worry about.

Reasons:

- The system tracks your ped input/output across all professions and thus if you're up, you're bound to come down and visa versa. It'll take care of itself, eventually.
Aha, the x Avatras who where only created to craft EP1 and then give the gained peds via buying 1 animal hide for 100 Ped to their main Avatar are loosing peds while hunting and mining from their lootpool. How should this work even though they never ever hunt or mine with that avatar but only craft EP1 on Toulan?

Please Mr. Power explain me how this balancing in hunting/mining/crafting will work with a avatar who only crafts EP1 on Toulan 24/7 as long as it gives TT profit.
 

Raffaele Meiers

Stalker
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
Posts
2,333
Society
Trigger Happy
Avatar Name
Rafaele Meiersos Rocko
Totally agree with this one MA keeps track of all loot.
Max i can make 15-20 ped crafting explosive all day and play other games.
By the end of week i have some ped to hunt but MA takes all the peds back so nonone is making money here.
It would be exploit if peiople were able to do same with ep4 and widraw big amount but with ep1 all the peds made goes back to the loot by hunting etc . :)
How about create some more VM's to run the EP1 crafting in parallel?
How about transfering this peds to your main avatar and using them there?
If you allways lose the peds maybe it has something to do with your hunting style.
So if you only regularly gain every day 25 Ped for autocrafting it is not a exploit but if it is 2500 ped a day it is a exploit? Tell this a judge that a little bit of stealing is not stealing but if you steal a bit more it is - LOL
 
Last edited:

jetsina

Stalker
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Posts
1,770
At the risk of not being able to read/understand the word 'only' again, what the heck does live support mean by that?! Even if it might be what one wants to hear, I don't consider that that answer makes any sense. Anyone?
 

Ace Flyster

Elite
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Posts
4,984
Location
England, London
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
Dave Ace Flyster
At the risk of not being able to read/understand the word 'only' again, what the heck does live support mean by that?! Even if it might be what one wants to hear, I don't consider that that answer makes any sense. Anyone?
I kind of read that as, 'if you are doing other professions they have an effect on your loot' but i am probably wrong.

Rgds

Ace
 

SoberPhil

Guardian
Joined
Dec 20, 2019
Posts
214
Location
Long ago and far away
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Philippus SoberPhil Maximus
At the risk of not being able to read/understand the word 'only' again, what the heck does live support mean by that?! Even if it might be what one wants to hear, I don't consider that that answer makes any sense. Anyone?
My thoughts exactly, what else can he be doing while crafting, that isn't related to crafting? Is there another level to it??

The dynamic part makes sence tho, somewhat at least. You waste your multipliers on EP1 then you are more likely to loose while doing other stuff.
 

jetsina

Stalker
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Posts
1,770
Well, given that I really am experimenting, I thought I'd try and make a loss on EP1 by moving the slider quite a way towards condition, getting way more fails and presumably fewer successful clicks with ww bps attached. It worked! ;) Sliding around a bit I obtained a 90% return on somewhat over 1k clicks. So, we do have the power to self-regulate somewhat, but I have to admit that trying to lose is a bit of a novel approach here ;)
 

Haruto Rat

Elite
Joined
Jul 9, 2013
Posts
3,356
Society
fode et fuge
Avatar Name
Cunning Haruto Rat
As far as I know, the supposed 'exploit' is a hoax concocted to facilitate recruitment to a certain society. Fortunately, the rules of this forum prevent me from escalating this dumpster fire to a whole new level. :)

The background - that the returns on crafting cheap crap are strongly dependent on the drop rate of L blueprints, and that MA is often awkward at balancing, and that as a result EP1 returns suck on Caly and especially Monria but are somewhat better on minor planets - has been known for years to anyone who cared.
 

Fanan

Stalker
Joined
May 27, 2008
Posts
1,654
Location
Portugal
Avatar Name
Fanan Head Shot
Some oficial answer would be really appreciated!

This bug is going on for how long? I remember last month trying to auction a stack of WW BPs for two times and they didn't sell. No wonder ppl is getting 10ped tt of WW BPs over night. lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pi-

Oleg

Mutated
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Posts
19,085
Location
Leeds, UK
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
Oleg Oleg McMullery
At the risk of not being able to read/understand the word 'only' again, what the heck does live support mean by that?! Even if it might be what one wants to hear, I don't consider that that answer makes any sense. Anyone?
The support person clearly has no idea what the issue is, as is so often the case.
 

Fanan

Stalker
Joined
May 27, 2008
Posts
1,654
Location
Portugal
Avatar Name
Fanan Head Shot
People creating forum accounts just to "defende" this BUG is priceless! Reveals a lot about them...

Meanwhile Mindark stills on Christmas vacations!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pi-

IsDaDr

Hatchling
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Posts
3
Based on my hunting loot on Toulan this week, it feels very much like I'm paying for it.

It's clearly unintended and an exploit. You're not testing, you're cheating.

I hope we see a few temp locks, at least, when this gets sorted.
So you saying buying nano cubes from trade terminal , going to crafting terminal selcting explosive projectile 1 and crafting i will get temp ban ?
 

Angel O2 Mercer

Marauder
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Posts
6,324
Location
Spain
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
Angel O2 Mercer
I don't know about this particular situation, but Terms of Use 8J (Rules of Conduct) is very clear:

You must immediately report errors and bugs in the Entropia Universe to MindArk whenever You discover them. You may not “cheat” or otherwise neglect to report errors or bugs, use bugs, slow connection, Internet latency, or other 'exploits' for own benefits or for the benefit of others.
This means the second you think you have found a bug or exploit you must stop immediately and report it. You agree to this every time you launch the game.

Now you can argue that this is not a bug or an exploit because you are just crafting normally, fair enough. I invite you to have that conversation with MA, but I'm sure sustained TT profit (if true) will be considered a bug.

Good luck to everyone involved.

PS: Live support is clueless 90% of the time, they are just volunteer players like you and me ;)
 

jetsina

Stalker
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Posts
1,770
As far as I know, the supposed 'exploit' is a hoax concocted to facilitate recruitment to a certain society. Fortunately, the rules of this forum prevent me from escalating this dumpster fire to a whole new level. :)

The background - ... - has been known for years to anyone who cared.
Hiya, just a couple of points if I may. You say the supposed 'exploit' is a hoax, but the 'irregularity' is certainly present in that it is not an mu profit that is being made, but a tt one. There are a couple of other tt profit methods around, none of them exploits I would say, but a hoax is a situation where the main part of the story isn't true. In this case it is: a tt profit can be made. Can it be used? Is there a point considered ab-used? I don't know the internal politics at MA, so dunno. That is why a statement would be nice (but more likely a silent tweak I guess).
On the background comment: you write 'known... to anyone who cared', which is a common phrase, yes, but is normally an incomplete version of 'cared to listen/read/look it up' etc. In this case people who cared wouldn't even have started to know about it, or have I missed some obvious sources of this information?
 

Power

Provider
Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Posts
113
Location
Canada
Avatar Name
The Great Adventurer
FWIW I believe the drops have dried up in the same way the loot for the armors on Cyrene did.
 

jetsina

Stalker
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Posts
1,770
FWIW I believe the drops have dried up in the same way the loot for the armors on Cyrene did.
As they say: we'll know in the morning ;). I had to nudge a few people again to get to the trade terminal. If they disperse in a few hours, we will know why!
 

Svako

Mature
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Posts
45
Location
Slovakia
Society
Valhalla
Avatar Name
Pavol Svako Giertl
Screenshot as promised on previous page:



Bug or not, looks like it's no longer happening, so now you can put the pitchforks back to shed and continue with your lives.
 

Mac Farmer

Old Alpha
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Posts
872
Screenshot as promised on previous page:



Bug or not, looks like it's no longer happening, so now you can put the pitchforks back to shed and continue with your lives.
You sound mad that it end XDD ... Same result here but 25ped welding wires bp in the monday . I am back to caly since then so i have no idea if its fix or no

This looks more like normal run - 1,25ped welding wire seems legit . This run is either from before it get bugget or its just fixed
 

Svako

Mature
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Posts
45
Location
Slovakia
Society
Valhalla
Avatar Name
Pavol Svako Giertl
You sound mad that it end XDD ... Same result here but 25ped welding wires bp in the monday . I am back to caly since then so i have no idea if its fix or no

This looks more like normal run - 1,25ped welding wire seems legit . This run is either from before it get bugget or its just fixed
LoL, not mad at all, I'm happy that now I can continue doing this activity without people pointing fingers and hopefully now we will again see some recycle BPs...
Sentence with pitchforks was meant to be a joke :)

Screenshot is from today morning around 6AM server time (wanted to make screen from night before as promised, but found my self DCed in the morning and based on inventory status it happened after maybe 100-150 clicks).
If you don't believe me, just check it yourself and do one run, I really couldn't care less. For me this topic is closed as nothing suspicious is happening anymore.
 

atomicstorm

Slayer
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Posts
7,540
Location
Tennessee, USA
Society
Entropialoot.com
Avatar Name
MeLoveYou LongTime FiveDolla
Just for reference, when loot algorithm result in a balancing issue that is abnormal to where it is in the player's favor, which will, no matter how small or large, siphons peds from other players from the overall pool, this is an exploit and is subject to a punitive action. No matter how some of you users of said exploit/bug spin it, it is an imbalance.

See reference: monria mining claims on initial roll out and subsequent player bans/locks and confiscations.

An RCE and this community demands a balance and less sloppiness from the coders to ensure fair play.

Hopefully now this one is taken care of.
 

Raffaele Meiers

Stalker
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
Posts
2,333
Society
Trigger Happy
Avatar Name
Rafaele Meiersos Rocko
Screenshot as promised on previous page:



Bug or not, looks like it's no longer happening, so now you can put the pitchforks back to shed and continue with your lives.
Seams like when Server yesterday was offline they, MA, changed the EP1 Loot table to only give 1 PEC WW(L) BP's same TT as the TT of UL BP's would be and not L bp's with more than one click.
 

Nakor of Boreft

Guardian
Joined
Oct 24, 2016
Posts
287
Location
Bodegraven, Netherlands
Society
Knights of Redemption
Avatar Name
Nakor of Boreft
This was a very interesting thread to follow.
I've seen pretty good arguments for both the standpoint that this is an exploit and the standpoint that it is not an exploit, I do hope an MA official
* will make a comment about this and that action will indeed be taken |(though I can think of plenty of scenarios where that will be hard)

*because judging from the above reactions, not all MA staff are believed to be knowledgable enough to be trusted. Which in itself is not a good sign.
 

mastermesh

Mutated
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Posts
15,502
Location
FOMA SHOP # 22
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Maria Mesh
Does anyone have idea from when this exploit was a thing on Toulan ?
as long as Toulan's crafting machine and explosive bp existed.

I vaguely remember doing a lot of ep there the first year Toulan was there, not really because of the exploit, but because I was working on getting qr up to 100 at the time. I did get a lot of ww bps in the process back then, and just TTed most of them. Didn't really pay attention to tt value, but yes, it was more than it probably should have been thinking back on it.

The disciple armor was messed up back then too... you'd get full set of the Toulan stuff in addition to a half set of pixie too.

What makes one go hmmm is how all of a sudden the owner of Monria owns the place and suddenly there's a bunch of change... why wasn't the place getting this level of love earlier when run by the previous owner? Same could be asked of other planets too... it's almost like Mindark plays favorites constantly...

p.s. anyone figured out the date Toulan's new owner has re-assigned Christmas to? (a hunch tells me it'll be on St. Patricks day?!?)...
 
Last edited:

jetsina

Stalker
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Posts
1,770
There's a joke about somebody who went on safari and thought all the animals must be like kangaroos, but called dangaroos. A bit like people who call everything untoward that happens an exploit, maybe they aren't quite on top of the game. To clarify the joke, there was a sign at the perimeter fence that the poor fellow read as: caution - all animals are dangaroos!
Readers and players can read in whatever they want, but the fact is, their opinions are just opinions (as are mine), and MA probably also makes some of it up as they go along. The media has a term for this uncertain nature of things: too close to call. As mentioned above, there are arguments that can be made both for and against in terms of what the truth might be.
Just for reference - this has not been an exploit, although it has been an irregularity. There, written in plain writing, so obviously correct, eh?
However, it should also have been passed on to MA when realised as an irregularity they might want to check, but that is not what the conditions require. But we don't even know so far whether it was drawn to their attention long ago, or only recently. We can see that after a relatively short period of being put in the public domain by the OP, it was changed. Ok, job done, and we will probably never know whether this was for ages just a 'use' that MA decided was now being 'over-used', which changes the status for them from use to abuse, so they took the option away.
 
Top