Info: Toulan crafting yields bounty exploit - confirm?

atomicstorm

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Received reports and 2 confirmations about an exploit on Toulan. If you craft EXP 1 there, you will yield >110%TT (not just sometime, all the time) because you only get welding wire blueprints. This causes a skew in TT returns. This is resulting in dozens of "crafters" taking advantage of said exploit. It has already been reported but obviously nothing has been done about it. Anymore confirmations?

If more confirmation, this also brings into light a bit of how loot works. Item brings the TT, not TT fills the item.

For the math curious - that is 800 clicks per hour at 2 pec a click x 24 hours = 384peds a day, 38.4ped profit a day. Yea, sure - that's not a lot. Multiply it by 50 or 100 people, etc. It's a hole.

Status: Confirmed
 
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Toulan seems to not drop any basic bp most of the time its just welding wire L bp and i can confirm you just need to craft enough explosive projectile bp 1 to loot bps and your result is around 110% tt .
 
Are you saying you get no explosives, just ?? 2 clicks ?? of ww bp each success? How does that generate a tt profit, as opposed to mu? Is it April 1st already?
 
Are you saying you get no explosives, just ?? 2 clicks ?? of ww bp each success? How does that generate a tt profit, as opposed to mu? Is it April 1st already?
You get explosives and residue as you should get but .. instead of looting basic ul bp which has 0.01 ped tt you get welding wire bp which has more than 0.01 ped .
 
Interesting. What about exp 4? >110% TT return with that is quite a lot.

Sorry if my logic is wrong It's 2 am xD
 
Ah, ok, ty. So, say you get a 50 click ww bp every 300 clicks or so, that'd be 50 pecs extra every 6 peds of turnover? At 95% normal tt return that would be a bit up over 100%, yes, but not 10% of the run. Still, interesting if true ...
(I assume ep4 doesn't have the same high ratio of bps to turnover Sub-Zero, so would be a loss still)
 
If more confirmation, this also brings into light a bit of how loot works. Item brings the TT, not TT fills the item.

I guess in this case this is true but I suspect that there are different categories of blueprints, i.e. common blueprints versus very desirable and rare blueprints. The very 'desirable' ones are intended to backfill your long-term returns so you have an opportunity to make back the losses through markup.

And so in that case, I would not say that those items (the very rare drops) are bringing the TT, I'd say they are bringing the MU into your loot so you have a chance at break-even in the long-term.
 
I guess in this case this is true but I suspect that there are different categories of blueprints, i.e. common blueprints versus very desirable and rare blueprints. The very 'desirable' ones are intended to backfill your long-term returns so you have an opportunity to make back the losses through markup.

And so in that case, I would not say that those items (the very rare drops) are bringing the TT, I'd say they are bringing the MU into your loot so you have a chance at break-even in the long-term.

What you are saying here has nothing to do what I mention in the OP.

@Sub-Zero, this is about EXP1. Hence the imbalance.

You guys stop making it more than what it is. No one is talking about EXP 4 or WW every click.
 
What you are saying here has nothing to do what I mention in the OP.

Yeah I just realized what you mean now I think; the loot system doesn't actually know or care about the tt value of the rare (high mu) items that drop for you when tracking/monitoring your overall long-term tt loot returns...
 
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If you craft EXP 1 there, you will yield >110%TT (not just sometime, all the time) because you only get welding wire blueprints.
You may have known what you meant, but it would have been clearer to write "because the only bps you get are ww with more tt than the usual 1 pec unl bps that drop elsewhere".
But yeah, I get it now, ty :)
 
You get explosives and residue as you should get but .. instead of looting basic ul bp which has 0.01 ped tt you get welding wire bp which has more than 0.01 ped .
you get that on caly also
 
It's been this way since the beginning. Basically Toulan has no real component bleuprints so instead of it paying you with regular crap blueprints it pays you with welding wire blueprints instead. Even though WW markup may look good in auction due to market manipulators, it's really just TT food for the most part.

If you craft a bit, this is a interesting thing to do on Toulan. Also, interesting is the new Butt Joint Blueprint that just came out in December. It only uses harvested goods from trees... and there's some really awesome tree spawns that were added there in December. For a couple of weeks I've been doing nothing but harvesting and heading to the crafting machine afterwards. It takes some patients if you don't have the Long Moonleaf boards since the Huge trees don't spawn as often as the smaller trees, but with a little patience it's definitely a way a crafter could level up over time...

Also the new daily taming mission there makes it a fun place for those of us with ulimited vipers. ;)
 
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Why do you think its a bug?
FYI there are many BPs which gives you back much more than the input TT. They called 'boosted'.
Nothing wrong here imo. Especially since they added shap to the near success hits (yes this greatly impoves your TT return on BPs with low cost to click).
 
the new Butt Joint Blueprint that just came out in December
Interesting... well, does the new Butt Plug Blueprint (erm joint) drop from EP1 then, or is it a generic EU-wide bp that also doesn't want to drop on Toulan? Side question: what are the butt thingies used for: a new weap or tool? If you're crafting masses, what use do you have for them?
 
Why do you think its a bug?
FYI there are many BPs which gives you back much more than the input TT. They called 'boosted'.
Nothing wrong here imo. Especially since they added shap to the near success hits (yes this greatly impoves your TT return on BPs with low cost to click).
Boosted bps are marked as boosted and from my knowledge ep1 is not boosted bp.
I think its a bug after you play time you cab just run ep1 and at morning you have nice shiny peds.

Example run
6300 clicks costs 126 ped
At morning
138 ped of loot in which
26 ped was ww bp which is suspicious .

And its not one time it happens all the time.
 
The only option is to remove all EP blueprints :):woohoo:

There is nothing wrong with EP bps. As MM mentioned above - It's been this way since the beginning. And this is not bec of WW bps in your loot.
Some time ago MA improved TT return for crafting by adding shrap to the near success hits. You can click basic filters/brukite texure or any other BPs with 1-7 pec to click and get good TT return.

Read the Realise Notes for more details: Entropia Universe 17.2 Release Notes
 
Are you dreaming on 150k uber gun or 40k debuf ring to get better returns? haha
Go learn how other professions work - they are much much cheaper and give you better results.
 
It's been this way since the beginning. Basically Toulan has no real component bleuprints so instead of it paying you with regular crap blueprints it pays you with welding wire blueprints instead. Even though WW markup may look good in auction due to market manipulators, it's really just TT food for the most part.

If you craft a bit, this is a interesting thing to do on Toulan. Also, interesting is the new Butt Joint Blueprint that just came out in December. It only uses harvested goods from trees... and there's some really awesome tree spawns that were added there in December. For a couple of weeks I've been doing nothing but harvesting and heading to the crafting machine afterwards. It takes some patients if you don't have the Long Moonleaf boards since the Huge trees don't spawn as often as the smaller trees, but with a little patience it's definitely a way a crafter could level up over time...

Also the new daily taming mission there makes it a fun place for those of us with ulimited vipers. ;)

No one here is talking about markup of welding wire blueprints. We are talking about TT and an imbalance - hence the bug/exploit.


You may have known what you meant, but it would have been clearer to write "because the only bps you get are ww with more tt than the usual 1 pec unl bps that drop elsewhere".
But yeah, I get it now, ty :)

WIth respect, that is exactly what the part you quoted in the above quote says. It says ONLY. I don't really need to go even further if people read - that is called over-contexting. Brevity is the tune of a man's soul.
 
Why do you think its a bug?
FYI there are many BPs which gives you back much more than the input TT. They called 'boosted'.
Nothing wrong here imo. Especially since they added shap to the near success hits (yes this greatly impoves your TT return on BPs with low cost to click).

Explosives are not boosted. Boosted prints are clearly marked. Your quote is a very low information post.

Are you dreaming on 150k uber gun or 40k debuf ring to get better returns? haha
Go learn how other professions work - they are much much cheaper and give you better results.

You should consider taking your own advice. Adding shrapnel has nothing to do with the OP mentioned. You are making inferences to explain away a statistical anomaly. That is poor form.
 
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Well... MA never said that you cant get 100%+ return.
There are many post/logs in this forum with 101-103% TT return in mining/hunting/crafting in long term (with good knowledge/gear/turnover).
I personally believe that >100% tt return is possible still.
 
I'd noticed the at least break-evenness on EP1 before, but didn't do enough for statistical significance. I may have done some on NI/AG, but probably got 1 pec bps as well as some ww there, as I didn't notice anything odd. I think I was just looking at what difference the new shrap change had done and wanted a few explosives anyway.
With respect back, by the way, the scope of the word "only" depends on the rest of the sentence. You should be the one who considers what you write could mean. Normally it would be a bit far-fetched to assume a 100% only, yes, but the logic of your sentence is: If you craft EXP 1 there, you only get welding wire blueprints. The claim was of a bug, remember? Who truly knows what was being suggested? Well, now we know - heading for Toulan anybody? Where is that taming mission please? ;)
 
You should consider taking your own advice. Adding shrapnel has nothing to do with the OP mentioned. You are making inferences to explain away a statistical anomaly. That is poor form.

ok here is my vision how the crafting system works:
- the system generates limited amount of useful resources per time, per planet ( for example Toulan crafting system generated 100ped TT WW bps per hour - possible to loot by crafting something )
- at some time window ppl are able to loot some valuable items if they are exist in the pool (you are aware of the wave system - dont you?). Lets say crafters on Toulan are able to loot WW BPs every 10 mins.
- if there is no usefull resourses left in the pool @wave time - the system gives you back some filler ( 1pec regular bp for our example )

So the knowledge what/how/when and where to craft allows you to get better returns + shrap

This is not Toulan bug. You can see this on every planet with low active playerbase just bec there are always some L Bps left in the pool @The wave time. This is actual for Toulan/NI/RT where the number of active crafters is very small. It doesnt work on Caly for the same reason - @The wave time there is very small amount of L bps left in the pool and you get the filler usually.
 
I am on Toulan and just tested this last night after reading this thread.
Confirmed that the ONLY Bp's you get are WW bp's. No 1 pec component bp's dropped after 10K click attempts.
This does not happen on Caly or Monria, they will have a mixture of WW BP's and 1 pec component BP's.

I agree this must be some sort of bug, if Toulan doesn't have any level 1-3 componenet BP's themselves, then it should be dropping the universal componenet BP's, otherwise you get the scenario that OP is talking about.

@SuperFly - the reason its a bug is because no other bp drops. WW should not drop all the time, yes it should drop frequently but not every time you are supposed to get a BP. This allows greater than TT return.

Here is must recult from last night, 10K clicks. Only a small TT profit, but if you had this running 24/7 and with alt accounts (yes i know they are against TOU, but i think someone exploiting won't care about that), you could get a decent amount. I wonder if thats why the MU on EP1 went up this past month.

index.php
 
Nice post SuperFly! Yes, knowledge is expressly not exploiting as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately that not completely obvious setup known as the wave has been with us for years and years. I've always thought it affected what loot the loot server might choose for you if allowed by the ped amount requested from it, the mob tables and maybe other factors. I assumed it would never return you a pec/ped value item chosen without looking at the tt value. It would be new for me at least if when crafting, the loot server might choose bps of any value 1-100 pecs without checking what value the crafting output had requested, but ok.
Edit - thanks for more info Darth. That means getting an average of 50 pecs ww bp every 133 clicks. Now that bps stack up, is the only way to see what you were actually getting by counting the bp successes with your eyes? Was it about 75 bp successes on the run shown? Also, you got a massive 5 peds tt profit? What were your multis like in those clicks? Did you check that too?
New edit: the droprate doesn't loot like it being wave-based, though, countering SuperFlys thoughts. Still, it's not a bug; it's a feature. We are always told to get out there and discover how things work instead of being informed by MA. Well discovered to whoever knew, but was the example run 20 hours long for 5 peds tt profit - and very little mu? 25 pecs per hour? Sounds like less than sweating...
...and edit on top of edit as this is still the last post: I see shrap returns were 29 peds, so that is the vu change that made the difference, not the issue of getting only ww drops. People have been known for years to go to other planets to get rarer bps to drop for them there - how fitting for people to now be after a relatively crap bp - but at a just about worthwhile rate... possibly lol
 
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... WW should not drop all the time, yes it should drop frequently but not every time you are supposed to get a BP...

... but if you had this running 24/7 and with alt accounts ...

Totally agree here, mate.
I have seen many Alts here clicking EP1 24/7. They are cancer of the game.


Nice post SuperFly!
Thank you!


but again:
OH, so it turns out that the little player also has a chance at making a tiny weeny profit? What a heinous crime! Bring out the pitchforks! And the guillotine!

Lets close all the rigs then and switch on cap on the sweating skill again! c'mon guys MA stated EU is a f2p game yet...
 
Thanks for posting your result from 10k run. Yep that's 5 ped profit for those you don't want to do math.
Not a lot for a long time of game and PC running, but very interesting.
 
Wow, 5 ped of pure profit over 10k clicks, that's like what, 12 hours? Man don't spend it all at once :laugh: Electricity would cost more than that. Is this what all the fuss is about? And don't forget that you can get 0.75 PEC of engineering on Monria every day, not sure what the MU on that is right now but it's gotta be more profitable than this.

I was gonna go try out that new daily mission on Toulan but now I'm thinking meh, long flight.

Also, I think that you could get similar results by killing 2 PEC mobs without overkill for the same amount of time, if such mobs existed.

The real problem here is the alternate accounts doing this, MA should be able to deal with them because they're being reported.
 
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