Info: Toulan crafting yields bounty exploit - confirm?

I don't even give a hoot.

Can we please make loot weigh less ( same as NI) so when I am grinding I do not have to either:

* Go to TT
* Put in vehicle storage

Is truly annoying
vehicle->recall all vehicles. Done.

Yes, it would be nice if stuff weighed less, but it's going to be hard to get that done unless you ask each Planet Partner for each item you want reduced in weight. Luckily Cyrene listened and reduced weight of the maze hammer, but I don't see Mindark allowing accross the board reductions.
 
Maybe i need to test more but didn't work for me :cautious:
 
Def something wrong is going on .

5160 clicks - Max multi - 1,68ped no globals no big minis thats it
Return -113,27ped : Cost : 103,20

113,27ped

21ped welding wire .
50ped explo
2basic screw
1basic filter
15ped shrapnel
rest res and nano

I continue
 
...my latest off-Toulan result was 5k clicks at 95% return, including a x80 and a x50 multi or so, but still not near Mac above, so unless people are only putting forward their better runs, things are indeed looking a little skewed right now. Oh, success rate was something like 41.8% I think...
MA have had enough time now to look at this! Communicate with your playerbase please! I thought you didn't want people to leave Caly lol...

...edit: ok, I've had a look and yes, the bps you get are mostly ww which make the successful click up to a max of x50 multi. Get several of those in a few k clicks and the run is quite happy to put you into tt plus territory. I suppose as expected, the runs improved slightly as I got the final qrs to qr100.
This is also afk-able. Sweating needs someone to drag mobs to a tight circle to afk that, and ofc repair runs on an MS can be fully afk for some too a lot of the time. A comment from MA would still be appreciated, though.
 
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HHaha its so funny same guy give me neg rep and i know some of his friends-alts that craft there 24/7 . I did some more test . Results in a bit
 
First of all thanks to 5 Dolla to share this bug and maybe MA can finaly fix it since i suspect is up for months .

I didnt have time to play since friday because i start new work and working at weekend too . Last night i start and did arround 11k clicks again whit 109% return . Made like 25 ped or so .

You simply cant loose peds doing Explosive 1 on toulan . You cant . Even if you want you cant :D And in top of that FREE SKILLS .

Support case is send whit all my info and link to this thread . Maybe MA can ban some of this people running this bug 24/7 for months ?
 
200 ped in (10k clicks), 189 out this night, what bug are we talking about? Still majority of BPs are WW and no recycle EP drop, people should start to post real results over longer time, not only those with 100%+ returns. Last night it was 200 ped in, 206 out, so 20k clicks sample is still under 100%TT, but was crafting other stuff in between, so data are corrupt.
And before you ask, yes my EP1 BP is 100 QR.
Results are same TT wise, just more WW BPs drops compared to other planets.
 
200 ped in (10k clicks), 189 out this night, what bug are we talking about? Still majority of BPs are WW and no recycle EP drop, people should start to post real results over longer time, not only those with 100%+ returns. Last night it was 200 ped in, 206 out, so 20k clicks sample is still under 100%TT, but was crafting other stuff in between, so data are corrupt.
And before you ask, yes my EP1 BP is 100 QR.
Results are same TT wise, just more WW BPs drops compared to other planets.

Bulshit . Post picture whit result ? I will start 10k clicks in a bit too and lets see

My runs so far are 7k clicks , 7k clicks and 4k clicks all finished positive % return . No minis no glogals or something ! Pure tt in / tt out whit masivve % welding wire bps .

Ps i did one more run last night when i go to sleep but it crashed on 4k clicks from 10k . I log today and saw 209return from 200 start .
 
Had these runs too, even few days in a row (but also had this on other planets, I remeber 5 nights in row on caly TT positive few months back, also with around 30 clicks of recycle EP1), all I'm saying is that it's not always 100%+ TT, but still may be that less runs are under 100% compared to other planets, dunno.
Pitty I haven't screened it, my bad. Will make screens next runs.

BTW, how do you check minis after 10k run? Is there some option I'm missing to see more than 1k click history?
 
Press the 'Value' that point down couple times and top hit whit show in the first place . If you want to reverse it to see crafting result on last clicks press 'Attempt' point again few times
 
ok, so keeping highest result on top will rly show top results from all attempts, not last 1k, good to know, will start using it that way, thx
 
Another run, another plus, this time with a x200+ multi with no bp as the best click. I'm getting other basic bps, but it is the ww clicks that stand out. I don't know what success rates are normally for a maxed 95%er qr100bp, but I'm assuming almost 42% is the upper end of the luck spectrum.
Even so, it's looking like it's hard to lose on a few k clicks right now. The thing is, this is one of the most basic things one can do in EU. Is it part of a wave or have people been doing this for months?
Maybe Toulan is paying for the ww bps that drop, we simply don't know! It's also a very slow activity, but I can't imagine it is helping to keep mus on explosives really low, if that is what MA intends, as EP4 is so very much more productive. Headscratch???
 
This topic was raised already on Toulan forum and Toulan responsibles are looking into it, let's see how it goes

Not sure if this applies also to higher EP BPs, since WW drops are not bigger from more click expensive BPs. I personally don't have bigger EP BPs, but I craft a lot of Simple 1 Conductors (100QR), Springs (63QR), Ruds (100 QR) and Simple 2 Conductors (42 QR), since animal oils drops like crazy on Toulan and majority of BP drops are still WW, but usually running 150-500 click runs, so results are all over the place TT wise, since big multy have huge impact on TT return in small run.
 
If it's being looked into then it will be interesting to see what communication they go for. There seems to be a HUGE speedup of developer activity on Toulan recently, with masses of carpet, furniture and clothing bps it seems, with the furniture using that new tree harvesting mat bp (butt joint?). There's also a mass event at the weekend - and they have lootable prizes of shops/apartments from a range of activities.

The increase in ww bps dropping could be marketing, you know, and might spread out more if more people come and craft. After all, there are oil wells that give oil for free on other planets and stuff like tokens in the hub on Cyrene. When I was the only one there years ago I got something like 500 peds in total on a daily sweep lasting quite a few weeks.

My hunch is that if double the number of people come to Toulan and do crafting, the number of ww I get will halve. The whole thing is just too obvious in terms of feeding the lootpool to be a mistake. My hunch is that Toulan has a daily contingent, just like oil wells etc.

If the communication is along the lines of "the bps are up for grabs - enjoy!", then I will not be surprised, but I would appreciate that announcement sooner rather than later...

edit: also, sometimes nuances can nudge probability 'guesses' in a certain direction. Normally when you have to collect non-tradeable bones or sooto or whatever to fulfill a mission the bones seem to come after a certain number of mobs in the 'background' to advance your counter. On Toulan there is now a noob daily where it looks as if this special loot is actually part of that mob's lootpool (more testing needed). I've also read it is a mission anyone may do, but note is is specially there for noobs really. So, given the waves we still have, this may actually be players v players on the available numbers per 'wave'. So, if non-noobs do the mission, they may be taking biscuits meant ideally for the noobs.
MA seem to have been playing around with loot layers and such recently, so it is entirely possible that a loot layer is now sponsorable by a pp. It really could be that there is a ww bp contingency specifically for Toulan. All of this is nudging me towards thinking everything is ok, with an innovative new flexibility the underlying systems have now been given.
 
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Maybe Toulan is paying for the ww bps that drop

Based on my hunting loot on Toulan this week, it feels very much like I'm paying for it.

It's clearly unintended and an exploit. You're not testing, you're cheating.

I hope we see a few temp locks, at least, when this gets sorted.
 
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Based on my hunting loot on Toulan this week, it feels very much like I'm paying for it.

It's clearly unintended and an exploit. You're not testing, you're cheating.

I hope we see a few temp locks, at least, when this gets sorted.

I am done too after like 20k clicks there is noting i can say that this is 100% exploit . There is cleary people posting in this thread that want to make it look like not exploit . I still dont have answer in my support case but it is viewed .

Will keep post on when i get answer
 
HHaha its so funny same guy give me neg rep and i know some of his friends-alts that craft there 24/7 . I did some more test . Results in a bit
Maybe like this coca_cola guy who most probably only registered this account to shame you because he does not want to share his true in game name and let us know that he is one of the 24/7 crafters of EP1.
 
Ludwig, hello (you're watching this)! Please comment! I'd like to know... For one, I'm not trying to make it look like it's not an exploit. It certainly looks strange, unusual, and for me is now statistically verified that what was claimed is happening. However, I also try and think further of whether any situation as simple as this with loot is unintended. It's not anything magical; it would have to be a strange slip-up to be unintentional, and I also do not think the term bug can be accurately used. Wrong settings, possibly, even probably, but we don't know. Bug? No.
I did a few EP2 clicks to feed away the small profit from EP1 (and I want explosives anyway). First run I got a plus with EP2 too lol, but that was a normal anomaly.., 2nd short run I lost peds finally lol :)
 
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Maybe like this coca_cola guy who most probably only registered this account to shame you because he does not want to share his true in game name and let us know that he is one of the 24/7 crafters of EP1.

Also the only comment he didnt neg rep was the one you quote . Hilarious

Some people really think they are very smart until MA show balls and lock them . Then suprised pickachu face post incoming from them xD
 
This doesn't seem like an exploit, nor does it seem like something to worry about.

Reasons:

- The system tracks your ped input/output across all professions and thus if you're up, you're bound to come down and visa versa. It'll take care of itself, eventually.
- Welding Wire is Universal Ammunition for your Repair Tool yet Ospra and Alternative are two ingredients tied to only 2 of the 6 planets. Seems unbalanced.
- Toulan having a higher drop rate (I've also heard NI has an increased drop rate) only seems to lend itself to a balance mechanic moreso than an exploit.
- If you're going to gain anything from this, you're looking at spending weeks/months sitting there to collect WW BPs, then you have to sell them (thus generating economic activity) or craft them yourself which in turn also creates economic activity... on Rocktropia and Arkadia. Nobody is really benefitting (see first point) and you're not really playing the game if you're crafting EP1s all day. In the end, the little bits you do get out of it are a huge time sink.

I would encourage MindArk and Planet Partners to adapt strategies such as this for universal materials/blueprints/etc so that other planets have their place within the universal systems. Otherwise we'll risk them reworking blueprints and other items for new loot drops and content upgrades and all those materials you've been saving could end up being useless.

If it's already been going on for months and it was a problem they would have took action on the next PP update as they did with Cyrene.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see any good arguments in this thread otherwise.
 
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see any good arguments in this thread otherwise.

No one is actually using the WW bp's, they just TT them and repeat the cycle, plus use alt's to farm 24/7.
Considering they don't do anything other than cycle EP1 over and over and then transfer funds to another avatar, your first point is irrelevant as well if they are getting over 100% tt return consistently....where is the 'balancing' in that?
 
No one is actually using the WW bp's, they just TT them and repeat the cycle, plus use alt's to farm 24/7.
Considering they don't do anything other than cycle EP1 over and over and then transfer funds to another avatar, your first point is irrelevant as well if they are getting over 100% tt return consistently....where is the 'balancing' in that?

Then this is a problem of Alternate Avatars and not Welding Wire BP drop rates on various planets. MindArk will catch up to them sooner or later if that's the case.
 
- The system tracks your ped input/output across all professions and thus if you're up, you're bound to come down and visa versa. It'll take care of itself, eventually.


MA are ofc tracking everything you do, however have denied there be a so-called personal lootpool. Stupid actions like using items, attachments, or blueprints without your ava having the necessary levels e.g. will not be compensated. MA have also made statements from which can be concluded there be no cross-referencing w.r.t. hunting, mining, and crafting.


- Welding Wire is Universal Ammunition for your Repair Tool yet Ospra and Alternative are two ingredients tied to only 2 of the 6 planets. Seems unbalanced.


Has historical reasons. When WW came out, the blueprint recipe represented each planet that then existed. Never been changed since.


- If you're going to gain anything from this, you're looking at spending weeks/months sitting there to collect WW BPs, then you have to sell them (thus generating economic activity) or craft them yourself which in turn also creates economic activity... on Rocktropia and Arkadia.


Ppl are talking about TT profit, which means you can just dump the blueprints while not generating any economic activity.
 
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Apologies that my wording has confused you.

There is no personal loot pool as in the loot composition you're receiving is not based solely around your avatar. You're pulling your loot from the same pool everyone else does.

Tracking ped input/output across all professions > Crafting / Mining / Hunting is tracked and you'll average out in each of these professions over time. This is the biggest reason it doesn't matter if someone is > 100% TT. As someone else mentioned, there are logs on the forums showing that > 100% is possible.

They likely (and should) have analytics running for each planet, tracking input/output and I would imagine they track it for each avatar as a whole. They can see what's going on. If they don't like it, they can nerf it. It's how things have always been done. Nothing is out of place here, the crafting terminal is being used as intended.. The responsibility is on MindArk to patch mechanics/droprates/etc that are not well balanced (see Cyrene currently) and not so much the players for simply using what's been provided.

Until it gets nerfed, you should be crafting EP1s on Toulan (that is if you dont mind locking up your gaming experience to standing around). I need Welding Wire BPs to craft with and thus when I was told it's the easiest place to get them (the same as any other loot drop) I'm there farming it.

It's still not an exploit though otherwise any loot that's over-dropping would be considered one.
 
No one is actually using the WW bp's, they just TT them and repeat the cycle, plus use alt's to farm 24/7.
Considering they don't do anything other than cycle EP1 over and over and then transfer funds to another avatar, your first point is irrelevant as well if they are getting over 100% tt return consistently....where is the 'balancing' in that?
solution suggested many, many times since ep complaints first rumbled in the beginning - make explosives non-TT able items... Sounds like a good add on to this would be to make Welding Wire bps non-sellable and soul bound too.? :)

At least now they can stack without you having tons and tons and tons of blueprints taking up storage like it was when this type of thing first started out years ago when Toulan first showed up in the virtual universe. (yes, this existed back then too but people just weren't complaining all over the forums since there weren't enough people on the planet to really realize what was going on)

Wonder what will happen with the compensation section if Mindark does something like this?
 
Ok, can we try and look at this at least logically from our poorly informed position?
Beginning with gut (basic, primeval) feeling, performing a basic task and making a tt profit from it certainly sounds like this would not be intended in an RCE game. However, shops in RL (also an RCE? ;)) often have so-called loss-leaders to get people to come in and hopefully buy other stuff too. The pps certainly have these, most notably maybe the Ark Moon daily that has zero costs associated with it if you run around, and minimal costs if you use a vehicle to save time.
If you are going to enter the realm of cheating then cycling through alts on the moon could probably net you something like an initial 8 peds per hour, but you have to be active and cannot afk. You'd also have to 'launder' the universal ammo at some point, but whatever inefficiencies that involves it is only lowering that pure profit margin. The profits from EP1s on Toulan is suggested to currently be at around 38 peds a day in theory in the OP (no electricity consumption considered) and as an afk task could be run in parallel with alts (who would each need an EP1 bp, however). No laundering would currently be needed per se, as everything is tt-able. The situation CAN definitely thus be exploited. If it got out of hand, MA could decide to take some kind of action, whether or not the basic activity itself was intended or not.
If just a solo, rule-abiding player, would doing many hours of EP1 constitute exploitation? Is running around oil wells for hours exploitation? Potentially different answers would require a difference in the starting premise: intent or not by MA or the PP. Even if not actually intended when implemented (shrap change springs to mind), then MA might have decided that this anomaly in their system is either not currently a problem or actually has other benefits, or isn't worth fixing. Logging off when travelling on a space ship has long been seen by MA as not really desirable, but 'fixing' the mechanics may be pretty complicated, so they have come out and said this is not an exploit. With the Toulan EP1 issue they may wish to keep the shrap implementation in crafting and don't wish to tweak this irregularity. They could very easily do so if they wanted to, however. Maybe the balancing manager isn't up to it, who knows?
The bottom line is that I have put forward suggestions as to how this situation may even actually be intended, let alone merely 'accepted for now with no action, not even communication, taken'. And no, I haven't been afk in parallel to writing this - this is time entirely lost when I could have been turning over peds in EU!
Edit: my gut, by the way, hates doing 'distasteful' stuff, but I also hate unfairness just as I hate sloppiness and probably loads of things when I come to think about it :). I also hate judging others wrongly and unfairly, so I like to know what I'm talking about. However, we have to shed our own lights on things in EU, as MA relatively rarely lets us know their standpoint.
 
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