FYI: Turret vs Weapon Efficiency Testing

PkmX

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So some fun with the numbers:

The test suggests a linear 5.266% difference between 0% and 100% efficiency for turreted return, at a theoretical 75.236% returned at 100% efficiency.

To scale 5.266% into 7% return difference as stated by MA, you need to multiply by 1.329x, and if you multiply 75.236% maximum "turret return" by 1.329x to scale you get 99.99%.

Coincidence? I think not. :sneaky:

So if the theory is correct, efficiency actually scales your TT return from 93% to 100% linearly, and if you turret a mob an uniform 0.752x multiplier is applied. Then the question is what does looter do under this hypothesis.
 
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MA never made a statement about looter.

Only made a statement about efficiency, said efficiency will account for about 7%... lol
oh kk i was going to go back and re-read all that n was like uhhh no way not doin it agian.. thought id ask lol
 

Jhereg

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So some fun with the numbers:

The test suggests a linear 5.266% difference between 0% and 100% efficiency for turreted return, at a theoretical 75.236% returned at 100% efficiency.

To scale 5.266% into 7% return as stated by MA, you need to multiply by 1.329x, and if you multiply 75.236% "turret return" by 1.329x to scale back you get 99.99%.

Coincidence? I think not. :sneaky:

So if the theory is correct, efficiency actually scales your TT return from 93% to 100% linearly, and then the question is what does looter do under hypothesis.

It may be that the eff does multiply your cost by a certain factor, and instead of applying the loot distribution, it takes a simple % of the cost as return from the turret.

When you loot mobs, a different distribution that might not max at 100% might be applied. This distribution might shift up or down based on looter level.

There's many ways to play the math game once your incorporate looter into the picture.
 

M Rufen Power

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So when you get 7% more from every mob, lowering the cost needed to kill enough mobs to reach the mob with your correction and an additional 7% received from that 'correction', you're not ahead by TT%? Just same returns, but took longer with lower eff? Lols
What a load of gibberish and tosh, lol. Where did I say one could achieve 14% extra TT? Not the same returns as indicated by the OP data, but it definitely takes longer with lower efficiency setups; that's 100% true. I am glad you are catching up and learning.
 
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MA never made a statement about looter.

Only made a statement about efficiency, said efficiency will account for about 7%... lol
if you wanna add this just as a text line above your 1st post image so everyone can see the piron series stats rather than make a new image here it is lol!

PLP-20 - 28.8% - 10shots - 2.0856cost - 45.16looter - atrox guardian - 1.4909turret return - 71.485424% return%
 

PkmX

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It may be that the eff does multiply your cost by a certain factor, and instead of applying the loot distribution, it takes a simple % of the cost as return from the turret.

When you loot mobs, a different distribution that might not max at 100% might be applied. This distribution might shift up or down based on looter level.

There's many ways to play the math game once your incorporate looter into the picture.

True. There are a lot of assumptions in that theory and it is entirely possible MA uses a different algorithm when actually looting mobs.

BTW I tested with Chon S1X1 on 5% taxed land and didn't see reduced shrapnel, so the turreted return is also not taking tax into account.
 

warmdogg

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A theory i have always had is that efficiency is a modifier of how much cost is registered to the system, the work you guys have doing strengthens that argument, and also leaves space for looter skill to enter the formula during loot events.
 
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True. There are a lot of assumptions in that theory and it is entirely possible MA uses a different algorithm when actually looting mobs.

BTW I tested with Chon S1X1 on 5% taxed land and didn't see reduced shrapnel, so the turreted return is also not taking tax into account.
damn good call on that test!! woulda been sick if there was a difference to find those hidden taxes :)
 
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I want expand on this now that we have something baseline... and go back to what i mentioned in the previous thread and see i can find this mysterious "cap" on overkill using a few diff setups that one shot punies but im not confidant its possible cuz now were actually looting. Id like to see no loots less than 70% return. once they start dipping below 70% it might be safe to assume weve hit the cap.. thats my theory anyway :)

Im actually expecting loots will be more inline with what PkmX posted here with the 1.329 modifier!!! https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...weapon-efficiency-testing.280847/post-3751276
 
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Katie Chalmers

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The returns from turret seem to be independent of the return calculations, being mid 70’s in % doesn’t line up with our current understanding on base return averages. But I have some interesting things to tell you.
I did a bit of experiments within the first enigma instance (karona).
Inside there is crystals that when shot return shrapnel at a set %. These respawn immediately and can be auto targeted. I have been using these to grind my weapon professions while being able to multitask other duties on the computer. It works really well.
Anyway, these return anywhere between 83% for 0 eff up to a theoretical 89% for 100% efficiency. Plug in your own efficiency and check the returns it plots very accurately when going off of our established 7% figure we throw around. With all the weapons I tried everything matched up and was linear. I was unable to go above 80% eff as I have nothing higher than that.If Messi wants to gift me his sacrificial dagger in the name of science I will be grateful. ?.
I have done tests with different looter levels, and have found no increase, which wasn’t surprising.
Overamping (A106 on TT pistol) does not affect the returns here, in fact boosted them because of the greater efficiency, However, skill gain slowed to a crawl when compared to cycling something with similar burn rates. Leading me to think that wasting PEDs in such a manner not only hurts loot composition but also skill rewards.

I hope this interests somebody.
 
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PkmX

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I did a bit of experiments within the first enigma instance (karona).
Inside there is crystals that when shot return shrapnel at a set %. These respawn immediately and can be auto targeted. I have been using these to grind my weapon professions while being able to multitask other duties on the computer. It works really well.
Anyway, these return anywhere between 83% for 0 eff up to a theoretical 89% for 100% efficiency. Plug in your own efficiency and check the returns it plots very accurately when going off of our established 7% figure we throw around. With all the weapons I tried everything matched up and was linear. I was unable to go above 80% eff as I have nothing higher than that.If Messi wants to gift me his sacrificial dagger in the name of science I will be grateful. ?.
I have done tests with different looter levels, and have found no increase, which wasn’t surprising.

83% to 89% returned from 0% to 100% efficiency is only 6% difference. It's interesting they have different returns than turrets because I always assumed those things you can shoot in instances have same returns as turrets.

Mind sharing the weapons you used and the exact amount shrapnels returned per setup in the name of science? ?
 

Katie Chalmers

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83% to 89% returned from 0% to 100% efficiency is only 6% difference. It's interesting they have different returns than turrets because I always assumed those things you can shoot in instances have same returns as turrets.

Mind sharing the weapons you used and the exact amount shrapnels returned per setup in the name of science? ?
Depend on where you do your maths from. I also don’t remember the exact decimal point, I’ll check my records when I get home. But 83 as a base line, add on 0.07% from there per efficiency point, that’s what I did. And the range of stuff I had at my disposal seemed to line up with that. Grind house sleaze, TT pistols, with various levels of amperage, leoi shock dagger, armatrix, that sort of thing.
 

Mathilda

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Ammo or shrapnel are 0.01 PEC each whereas sweat/fruit/fragments are 0.001 PEC, so using ammo to test decay will be less accurate unless you take 10 shots.
There are very few instances where it would make a difference, especially not on weapon decay
 

Svarog

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2) Are "skill misses" from using non-maxed weapons returned?

They are returned but not to the player who missed. It's given to everyone in the form of those secondary shrapnel stacks in the loot.

  • A special hunting bonus pool will be implemented that will distribute funds from various sources, including skill misses, PVP, marketing and special events, which will improve overall loot returns for all participants.
 

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I begin with to mention my view of this, but not the reason for this post. Reason is at bottom of this post so if
anoyone have zero interested to read it, please jump down to my questions. ;)

As I mentioned earlier at DC this isn't (real) loot for me, it's more of a pre set return of what we spent, and that
the gear we use have different values that they contribute with for the build up of (real) loot. Splitting hairs in a
way since loot is just that but way more parts that are included. This return is more of a way to lower amount
of support cases where people (mostly new ones) want their peds back. Depending on what happened to value
earlier, there could also be a prevention of possible exploits to return this value "on the spot". ;)

Anyway, now to my reason doing this post:

Have you done some kill stealing tests with turret, i.e that two or more players do one shot at a mob and then
drag it to turret to see if one or all get something back?
Those who doing tests with turret, have you done some fruit tests to see any differences between a shot that
generate a skillgain vs one that didn't?
 
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