News: Update Regarding Core Balancing of Entropia

[SoberPhil]

Is it true that the UA daily mission reward is coming out of the CLDT payments?

 

[Arthur The Hunter]

Is it true that the UA daily mission reward is coming out of the CLDT payments?

Wouldn't be suprised lol

 

[jambon]

Is it true that the UA daily mission reward is coming out of the CLDT payments?

I think it's funded directly by your returns while the mission is active. x% of all your loots on mobs (up to 50 ped) for a mission is probably withheld and just paid out once you turn things in. I don't think this is additional returns - but gives a nice illusion that is it. It's gotta be funded by something.

 

[Theocles]

Well good thing balance is a word MA never understood anyway, how much worse can it get?!?!

This obsession with AI though, cant say I fully understand other than they have no vision themselves and are just lazy.

 

[Arthur The Hunter]

Hello Entropia Universe Community,

I am Magnus Ryme, CTO for Entropia Universe. The development team and I would like to keep you informed as follows:

We understand that many of you are concerned about our recent content updates, especially regarding items, loot, and the overall economy—hereafter referred to as “Balancing.”

Commitment to Core Balancing​

We’re pleased to inform you that the majority of our software engineers are laser-focused on addressing these core issues, and we are committed to making this central part of the game more engaging going forward. We fully recognize that for most players, these aspects are what make Entropia Universe so unique and exciting.

Why It’s So Complex​

Over the more than 20 years of continuous operation, an enormous number of items have been introduced into the game. Each comes with multiple parameters—damage, deterioration, hit rate, damage type, etc.—plus factors like loot lists, drop rates, TT value, market value, skill effects, and more. When you add in other game mechanics and the fact that Entropia Universe has a real-cash economy, balancing becomes incredibly intricate.

Frankly, it isn’t humanly possible to manage this complexity effectively with our older tools.

Enter CelestAI​

We’ve been working diligently to curate 20 years’ worth of data to train what we call “CelestAI,” a high-level artificial intelligence system composed of multiple AI agents, all managed by a top-level AI model. Initially, CelestAI will assist us in balancing the game to ensure a more engaging and rewarding experience.

We want to work smart by leveraging cutting-edge technology to tackle these challenges. Because this is such a significant undertaking, we’re being meticulous in our approach. We still have work to do before we can reveal more details; however, please know we are fully committed to this goal.

Ongoing Updates and Additional Improvements​

In addition to balancing loot and items, we’re also actively addressing other systems that need attention. Of course, not all of our programmers can work on CelestAI simultaneously, so we continue to deliver new content on a quarterly basis. Rest assured, these releases won’t detract from our primary commitment to improving the game’s most critical systems.

We truly appreciate your feedback and the passion you have for Entropia Universe. We’re listening closely and working hard to bring you the improvements you deserve and we ask for your continued patience and understanding as we implement these changes. Your support and constructive input are invaluable in our mission to deliver a better experience for everyone.

Thank you for being part of our community.

Sincerely,
Magnus Ryme and The Entropia Universe Development Team

Originally Posted Here

I smell BS, not MU

We hear you we just aint listening.

 

[Dayzed]

I see what you did there.

A Thousand cuts it shall be!

 

[Pi-]

I for one accept our new ai overlords.

 

[delta force]

 

[AndrewDarkwood]

'all of our programmers'....
Do you still have any human programmers. Didn't you fire 20+ developers in 2023 to replace them with AI?
The only human(?) still at MA seems to be 'Ludvig'. I hope I'm wrong...

 

[Creo]

While I want to be very excited and confident that machine learning could balance our loot and economy I am then reminded
that we have had no mention of ANYTHING UE5 related that shows it is ready for YEARS.

Yet MA is going to immediately jump to machine learning for loots/market decisions?

Doing this right with machine learning is in my opinion HARDER than migrating to UE5!!


This is just more marketing bullshit. Ai President, Ai mission givers, Celeste Ai!!

Please come to our sinking ship! We promise our Ai robot will bail the water out so you do not go under before moving
to S.S. Unreal 5 - Just ignore all the bots, shit markups for materials, shit loads of UL and declining Markup for all items in the game.

We will solve all your problems without having to do any work or hire any further help.

The MindArk way. Ignore, Deny, willful ignorance, Shameful promotion and then huge mistakes.

 

[Thark]

..., etc.—plus factors like loot lists, ...

putting aside the obvious BS corporate bla bla of talking while saying nothing and using as many buzz words as possible... the phrasing seems to indicate that the weapons we use effect the loot table/list of stuff we can loot? Either the dude writing this knows nothing, AI messed up, or they let something slip?

 

[Creo]

Well good thing balance is a word MA never understood anyway, how much worse can it get?!?!

This obsession with AI though, cant say I fully understand other than they have no vision themselves and are just lazy.

MindArk gets 'plausible deniability' that is how much worse it can get.

Oh..opps...sorry guys it was the Ai..we will just adjust adjust keep pew pewing! Thanks!

 

[Creo]

MindArk...You guys have any Ai that can find you a decent CEO or maybe a vision or direction for the game and your company?

 

[Creo]

Source: Predictable Success - Les McKeown

Where EU is currently.

 

[mihaimnb]

Sounds like probably a nice time to quit, I really want to keep positive but I can't.

 

[ColonelBuckshot]

All the old timey doomayers out in force again i see! Ra ra ra this new fangled AI will be the end of us! Fear change! Lol

Sounds good to me, so long as someone is overseeing the managing the AI its probably the absolute best way to analyse and manage 20 years worth of data.

 

[Creo]

All the old timey doomayers out in force again i see! Ra ra ra this new fangled AI will be the end of us! Fear change! Lol

Sounds good to me, so long as someone is overseeing the managing the AI its probably the absolute best way to analyse and manage 20 years worth of data.

Nobody said it was the end of the game. But if you have a high markup item...

Im not cashing out but im willing to lose what I have in the game if Markup goes to 0.

 

[Mos Craciun exista]

maybe it's time to listen some oldschool players ( 15-20 years ) and make some mining , hunting , crafting - all balanced again , and some % around...

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

All the old timey doomayers out in force again i see! Ra ra ra this new fangled AI will be the end of us! Fear change! Lol

Sounds good to me, so long as someone is overseeing the managing the AI its probably the absolute best way to analyse and manage 20 years worth of data.

A.I Can't even accurately do basic mathematics still. I have students who try to use A.I to analyze VERY BASIC Statistics, like we're linear regression type of basic shit. And the A.I gets it wrong. It really makes grading those students easy.

The game isn't doomed, but seeing 2 pec CLDTs and lowest number globals and people globalling on Entropia Life since before Pre covid is concerning. Prices aren't back to Pre Covid either, they are BELOW pre covid prices now. With still nothing to "work towards" outside of Mayhem and some Cyrene stuff (Sorry other planets, Cyrene is well above in those respecs)

How do we except MA to "make" an A.I when MA doesn't take our suggestions into account. What is A.I going to spit out? Loot 1.0 information? loot 2.0 information?

At least right now I know mathematically exactly what to expect medium to long term TT wise.

They just don't give us any reason to chase the shitty carrots on the sticks. Nothing to Upgrade Loot 1.0 weapons or armors more so the bases can drop from mobs again. That alone, for the angel, boar, etc. armor and the ml 35 adj, katsuchi adj, etc. would be a HUGE boost to the low/medium AND high level player base where they could then have Mayhem awarding Motherships, Apartments, Shops, that should be able to be upgrade from IN GAME RESOURCES.

So many issues are so fucking easily solvable. You want more space in your shop? Okay that'll be uhhh 3000p of lysterium ingots, 1000p animal spleen oil etc.

And as you upgrade MORE and MORE the cost to upgrade costs more and more. Just like tiering a weapon/armor, except you don't get the TT back.

Have the cost be less than it currently is, scaling to size of apartment/shop/LA w/e and boom, people want to buy and use and find resources.

 

[ColonelBuckshot]

Nobody said it was the end of the game. But if you have a high markup item...

Im not cashing out but im willing to lose what I have in the game if Markup goes to 0.

Yeah at the end of the day, we all have 2 choices. Stay or leave. Personally I see great change and a fantastic future. I remember a time where MA were a faceless entity who never communicated and never listened to the community, and did the bare minimum with next to no new content. So for me, with everything we have today and what we have to look forward to, the game has never looked better.
But I guess thats just my perception. AI is the present and future, everything is going that way and properly utilised and implemented its going to work wonders for EU.

I have my own list of needs, wants and balancing issues, but I just hope mindark are going to have those worked out too. For now I'm enjoying what we have end making the best of it while having fun.

 

[Azgarot]

I would like to start off by thanking you for addressing this issue. You have shown great promise by recognizing both the balancing issue and the current Mayhem format issue.

We are in desperate need of balancing and just like messi and many others, I am inclined to believed that a human being would be the preferred alternative to AI at this moment. I am sure that with enough time AI will be capable to do this job but using AI for something like balancing the economy in Entropia is a huge challenge. AI is still in its infancy and training takes a tremendous amount of time, a huge dataset and analysis by a human. No AI can perform such a task from the get-go.

If nothing else, start by addressing the issues that have arisen since the space mining introduction. Two key points:

- rare ores should not be in these huge amounts Tailings, if at all;
- gems should not be in Tailings at all.

Fix this sooner rather than later, don't wait for your AI. These two things have a profoundly negative impact on what's left of the economy and it's just not good. This update made the gems worthless so what can a crafter hope for today? What is the point of RDI today? New content shouldn't completely obliterate old content, it should have some synergy and continue to grow and expand the game, not overlap in such a way that further lowers markup on everything. Here is an image for your convenience, this was taken yesterday:

To add salt to injury, I looted an Emerald while crafting literally minutes ago and I never thought I'd say this but I was pretty disappointed.

 

[Arthur The Hunter]

All the old timey doomayers out in force again i see! Ra ra ra this new fangled AI will be the end of us! Fear change! Lol

Sounds good to me, so long as someone is overseeing the managing the AI its probably the absolute best way to analyse and manage 20 years worth of data.

One can be delusional too.

Or have alternative agenda.

You cant deny things have gone toward shit for past few years lol.

 

[ZPF]

Every single MA post seems to revolve around A.I now. Is the PR team running the game?

This post basically reads as "We are too scared to develop our own game". How is that supposed to make us feel better?

"20 years of items" is a nonsense excuse. No one is asking them to balance the Jester D-1. We're asking for our loot to not be worthless. Give it some kind of use. It's not rocket science.

If this A.I stuff gets them to try something new I'm all for it. Just tired of them doing nothing.

 

[ColonelBuckshot]

One can be delusional too.

Or have alternative agenda.

You cant deny things have gone toward shit for past few years lol.

Maby some things have but other things have vastly improved. Just because some stuff, balancing etc has gone downhill, doesn't mean thats true for everything. The game has vastly expanded with big events, massive amounts of content, instances, expansion of PP worlds, missions, codex, weapon and attachment variety.

One thing is also true, the game is far cheaper for gear and the barrier to entry to play high end content is far lower.

So while criticism is due in certain areas, we also have to acknowledge what is great. I see far to much focus on the negative to the point it looks like everyone is striking and throwing in the towel because the game is doomed, when it's nowhere near as bad as that in reality.

 

[Arthur The Hunter]

Maby some things have but other things have vastly improved. Just because some stuff, balancing etc has gone downhill, doesn't mean thats true for everything. The game has vastly expanded with big events, massive amounts of content, instances, expansion of PP worlds, missions, codex, weapon and attachment variety.

One thing is also true, the game is far cheaper for gear and the barrier to entry to play high end content is far lower.

So while criticism is due in certain areas, we also have to acknowledge what is great. I see far to much focus on the negative to the point it looks like everyone is striking and throwing in the towel because the game is doomed, when it's nowhere near as bad as that in reality.

Sure one can play for fun and all that and hope for the better day.

I didnt play for profit since my return but to stay float i did pretty good until i hit no sales no MU walls.

There is good features and alot wasted potential here but that does not justify me getting railed in the ass unlubed.

I have been around enough long to see false blatant shameless cashgrabs and broken promises over the years.

Game might not be dying before this fabled Unreal release but it is still on life support atm and people are leaving.

I will wait and see...

 

[Sulje]

All the old timey doomayers out in force again i see! Ra ra ra this new fangled AI will be the end of us! Fear change! Lol

Sounds good to me, so long as someone is overseeing the managing the AI its probably the absolute best way to analyse and manage 20 years worth of data.

Economy is not yet down to pre-corona state, there is no longer a reason for people to spend time home all day and nobody is forced to stay home play an online afk simulator, which is why MA should have used the opportunity to grow, instead some mistakes are made, but the player base is still strong for such a niche game, and I don't think the game will ever completely die, but could be potentially sold to someone else, who might have ideas to turn it into crypto game or some shit like that.

They could use AI for example to go trough all player feedback, or for some fun experience,.. Core balancing? Nah that's not happening with AI, and anyone with even slight techical knowledge knows how unlikely is that to be real. I'll give you one example - facebook uses AI to process user reports, let's just say it's correct 0.1% of the time, so if the company that invested 1B+ into the system couldn't achieve such simple task, you really think Mindark the Swedish company of 12 employees could achieve loot balance by using AI ?

As for UE5, I have said when they announced it it won't happen for at least 5 years, even if then, considering the proven knowledge of MA developers, which is releasing bug on top of bug every release, which are not even listed in known bugs section even after 10s of people complained about it by tagging officials and posting on forum.

While on that, don't forget the UI feedback thread where all real feedback was completely ignored, and only minor things were fixed.
Remember Treasure Island promises and encouragement regarding quick hotfixes patches listening to user feedback (until it was sold out, since then not a word)

There is a long list of things that pisses people off, such as big promises tiny deliveries, only thing left to betray the player base is to start delaying withdrawals, and that's when the panic will kick in and game will die immediatelly. So as long as I see that withdrawals are working in reasonable promised timeframe, I personally don't think the game is dead, that is the only indicator. I am personally ready for this if it happens, as anyone smart should be. Have fun, but be ready for rug pull.

Summary message for MA: Wake up

 

[James Jimbo Linehan]

Maby some things have but other things have vastly improved. Just because some stuff, balancing etc has gone downhill, doesn't mean thats true for everything. The game has vastly expanded with big events, massive amounts of content, instances, expansion of PP worlds, missions, codex, weapon and attachment variety.

One thing is also true, the game is far cheaper for gear and the barrier to entry to play high end content is far lower.

So while criticism is due in certain areas, we also have to acknowledge what is great. I see far to much focus on the negative to the point it looks like everyone is striking and throwing in the towel because the game is doomed, when it's nowhere near as bad as that in reality.

You're right about the content and great ideas that could have really got the game booming long term if implemented and balanced right. They are doing a lot on that end which is great to attract new players and making the game look alive and up to date etc.

While new shiny stuff attracts the players new and old what keeps them after they pass low level is Opportunities and potential because lets face it this game isnt super fun except because of $. MA doing things to increase MU on things already in game and new things as well should be main focus. And that's where it's an epic fail for player retention.

I'll admit it was far easier for them back when we started and people (including myself) knew very little about the game and thought I could beat the house/players by hitting a nice hof/ath. Now with so much information we all know our only chance is because of MU. So if the MU is gone aka all 100.5% etc and stuff don't sell anymore wasting more on auction fees than the 100.5% provides in extra cash there will be no reason for anyone to play anymore. And every single update and choice they have done for last year or 2 has obliterated MU overall longterm.

Endless UL guns, super long life equivalent limited guns that aren't even crafted, Terra 5 UL amp that's too big to even be in the game, then after seeing pyrite price etc go from 200%-125% from that huge amp they add few UL p50s and p30s which is even bigger UL cycle taking more crafting away, the space loot (which is a super easy fix right now even), the high TT on teleport tokens which no one would ever use even if no weight limit (i think you mentioned this 1), and countless other beyond out of touch with game decisions that makes the hole too deep to climb out of. It all SCREAMS to run for the hills they have no idea what they are doing and/or want short term gains at the expense of long term income. I know you know this but we are way beyond the point of just trying to say "game is fine nothing to see here" so we have a chance in hell of selling our items to the next guy. But we reached the point MA got to fix it and bring crafting and resource consumption back while limiting the flood of UL everything.

1st step they can do immediately to show us they are serious with this statement is get rid of or put a super low cap on planet ores/gems in space and add the mats to the bps. This step alone would drastically increase our faith because we would know they aren't going to wait for AI to tell them what to do even on obvious things. If we have to wait until the AI is trained for it it'll be far too late by then.

I am happy they did acknowledge that there is a serious problem with the balancing tho so maybe they will show us soon and start heading in the direction we are all here for.

 

[andreeanicolej91]

Here is a short poem I wrote which might reflect a few things and maybe bring a few smiles to some sour sods here:

" Some will moan, some will lose and cry,
But there is no reason for us to despair,
Some might go, some away will shy.
I have faith in MA, I know they'll repair.

Yes, not always things will go our way,
But bitching and moaning aren't feedback,
To find gold you'll maybe dig a little clay.
Help to improve, so MA can have a crack.

And they'll swiftly bring EU to former glory,
Things will be fine, we will all rejoice soon,
Please quit bitching, it is now a euphory.
Stop behaving like a child or a buffoon."

Hope you liked it.

 

[messi91]

What is the point of RDI today

I don't think this current dev team have a clue what RDI is.
No point running rdi at this moment under current balance manager.

 

[Boo Who You]

Man, what the hell did I just read.....

Let's clear a few things up.... I'm so sick of MA throwing around "AI" like it's this magic button they can press to fix everything... Does anyone in MA actually have an idea of what AI is or even how to use it? All I have seen so far is throwing "AI" on everything to make it look fancy, but in reality, it's just a useless chat bot.

Let's look at the main website, Live Support is now gone, and we are replaced with AI, which is utter dogshit and provides 0 help.

Let's look at the new immersive AI mission.... How on earth is this an immersive mission when everyone gets the same mission. The mission is not tailored to the hunter at all. You just have a fancy chat bot spitting out bullshit that most players are not even reading and just to get their daily mission. Don't get me wrong, the daily mission(s) are great...but let's call it was it is, it's a daily mission with a chatbot, not this immersive AI bullshit.

We’ve been working diligently to curate 20 years’ worth of data to train what we call “CelestAI,” a high-level artificial intelligence system composed of multiple AI agents, all managed by a top-level AI model.

This is going to be funny... So, we are using 20 year's worth of data to train this AI? Look at the dumpster fire we are in, right now and we are going to train our new loot manager on this? In my line of work, we have a saying with this kinda stuff, and it goes "Garbage in, Garbage Out" - We are on track for this exact same situation.

To be honest, I don't fault the balancing manager or team for the current situation we are in. We are in this situation because someone in MA is cash hungry and just trying to squeeze out the community for every last penny in their pocket. I highly doubt that the balancing manager/team was like "You know what's a good idea...lets flood the game with these items" - It's also not the balancing managers fault that MA has not advertised EU for shit. Look at the affiliate program that people spent thousands on. Where is that program at now? Let me guess...another flopped projected.

The game needs a crafting overhaul; Every profession plays a key role in keeping the economy going, and crafting has been neglected for years. A prime example why is it that loot 2.0 has been out since what, 2017 and yet crafters can't make anything better than ArMatrix weapons...in turn forcing all new players to use outdated weapons.

The game needs more players...What advertisement efforts has MA actually made regarding this game? Without these two aspects of the game getting fixed, we are screwed.... and this AI Balancing manager is not going to fix this stuff. This is a team of developers and advertisers, which MA has since fired.

Magnus, can we ask how many programmers Mindark has?

This is an excellent question. As you said, you have a majority of your software engineers working on this. From an outside looking in, it seems that MA is just slimming down more and more and as a player, it would be great to know what size of a team we have working on these major issues. This will help us curve any kind of expectation on how quickly or even the likelihood of things being fixed.

When I hear AI and balance I feel a need to sell everything and never play this game again.
Hire a god damn human that finished mentoring and he will do 200 times better job.

I could not agree with Messi anymore! As a player who has been playing EU since 2006 - It feels as though the team at MA has completly lost touch with their player base.


To me this is just another post by MA trying to provide lip service to cool down the frustrations of the community. One that will most likely, like the rest, be filled with promises behind a whole fancy buzz words.