Vehicle fuel - How to become a fuel mogol!

Wollongong

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Working on a very old idea, which I've posted here before...

Advantage of this idea:
- Opening up a whole new profession
- Boosting the market for sweat, thus increasing newbie retention rates
- Better mileage of your fuel
- potential of creating a new hotspot location where the oil industry is based (no, not the rig)

Disadvantage:
- Probably a slightly lower use of fuel (tt-value) due to a higher mileage, which may have a (minor) effect on CLD payouts. Disclaimer: I am a CLD holder (for an amount which is significant to me)
- Disruption of the market which will need to even out. This may be accompanied with some price hikes (which should be temporary).

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Current situation:
Right now, when you have oil, you have fuel for all vehicles. While this is easy, it's not very realistic. This thought, combined with earlier superfuel ideas kinda sparked this idea.

The opening of the fuel industry

Basic fuel[/b]
Each unit of (refined) oil can be "crafted" into one unit of vehicle fuel. This is done at a special crafting machine, which can be placed at one of the less populated areas (generating some traffic there).

This basic process has a 100% successrate.

Using a BP bought from the technician (UL) you can craft either "jet fuel" (for flying vehicles, including those which go into space), "boat fuel" (for those vehicles which travel across water, including hovercrafts) and "car fuel".

1 refined oil --> 1 jet fuel
1 refined oil --> 1 boat fuel
1 refined oil --> 1 car fuel

This whole process does not cost a single pec (apart from the purchase of the BP. However, crafting fuel does increase your skill in the professions. Of course, each fuel has its own chemical specifics, so if you craft jetfuel, you will skill up in the jet-fuel-maker profession. Some skills are fuel specific, others are more generic (such as "carbon chemicist" or something).

As this crafting is free of charge, skilling must be very slow.

The basic fuel industry may seem like a hassle, but it is needed, because it opens up the way to the more

Advanced fuel industry

As you progress in your fuel making career, you slowly skill up in your new found profession. At some point, you will reach level X (say level 10). This enables you to make a better fuel, with a higher mileage.

Lvl 2 fuel will cost:
1 refined oil + 1 sweat --> 1 lvl 2 fuel (also in the three types).

You will, of course, need the Lvl 2 fuel blueprint for this, which sometimes is found by lvl 1 fuel makers. This BP is unlimited.

The advantage of this fuel is a better mileage. Lvl 2 fuel will provide 10% more miles per gallon than basic fuel.

Lvl 2 fuel crafting may fail. But if it does, you lose only the sweat you've put in. The oil is returned.

Due to game mechanics, I imagine that the same item (for instance: jet fuel) will appear, but 10% more than in basic).

After a while you reach another level (say lvl 20), and another fuel becomes possible, which also needs a BP, this one is limited, which can be found by people crafting lvl 2 fuel.

Now, this lvl 2 fuel needs TWO oil. But this lvl 2 oil gives 118% milage compared to the basic.

Etc. all the way to lvl 10 fuel (or more).

The higher the level of the fuel you are crafting, the higher the amount of sweat to put in, the lower the marginal benefit of the extra fuel level. Level 10 milage would be:
100% * 110% * 109%% * 108% * 107% * 106% * 105% * 104% * 103% * 102% * 101% = 170,01821 %

The cost would be 1 oil + 9 sweat.

Looking forward to your feedback.
 

Lindz

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sounds kinda cool..Im all for new uses for sweat
 

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Doubtful - IMHO EU is actually going the other direction by simplifying the game, not making it more complex. Less different ammo stacks is a good example of that.
 

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Doubtful - IMHO EU is actually going the other direction by simplifying the game, not making it more complex. Less different ammo stacks is a good example of that.
Setting aside any doubts about whether it could be implementend, how do you feel about the concept of refining fuels to a higher level using sweat?
 

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Setting aside any doubts about whether it could be implementend, how do you feel about the concept of refining fuels to a higher level using sweat?
Similar to my previous post - I feel it would just complicate things w/o much of a gain. Ammo was merged because it was pointless to have different ammo types for handguns and rifles.

Getting more mileage? Well, vehicles are cheap as hell to use anyway, maybe only for someone who flies all day in space, but than again it's very few people that could really benefit from it. So imho it won't have any significant impact on sweat demand or nor will it make the game any more interesting, more stuff to do etc.
 

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True but it wouldn't be the first time MA chose to throw a spanner in the works to complicate things for example colouring.

But MA's first priority is to get and keep depositing players not to allow more free play from sweaters and remember we've still got the massive stockpiles of the sweat from the days of the exploits so the first to benefit will be those players who are holding on to it rather than new players.

The Hub on Cyrene is one area where they've allowed a departure from the standard EU play model and I think we'll see more of this style in the future if it succeeds.
 

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Similar to my previous post - I feel it would just complicate things w/o much of a gain. Ammo was merged because it was pointless to have different ammo types for handguns and rifles.

Getting more mileage? Well, vehicles are cheap as hell to use anyway, maybe only for someone who flies all day in space, but than again it's very few people that could really benefit from it. So imho it won't have any significant impact on sweat demand or nor will it make the game any more interesting, more stuff to do etc.
The main objective I have with this suggestion is to create a market for sweat, thus keeping the newbies around long enough to fall in love and become depositors. The extra mileage is the reason which will important for those who skill it (another way of building a career and another reason to stay around.

But again: if the complexity is your problem, just grab my workaround and have one single fuel, but different payouts (so a success lvl 1 would lead to 100 units, a success level 2 would lead to 110 units, unit being any relative number, not absolute).


True but it wouldn't be the first time MA chose to throw a spanner in the works to complicate things for example colouring.

But MA's first priority is to get and keep depositing players not to allow more free play from sweaters and remember we've still got the massive stockpiles of the sweat from the days of the exploits so the first to benefit will be those players who are holding on to it rather than new players.

The Hub on Cyrene is one area where they've allowed a departure from the standard EU play model and I think we'll see more of this style in the future if it succeeds.
The only reason I have become a depositor, is because I could play-for-free-sort-of during my first year or so. Yes, my presence has been a drag on servers during that time, but after a while, when I got my first decent job, I became a $15 per month depositor.Nowadays, I hold 12 CLD, for which I deposited.

So keeping people around to play for free is worthwhile. It let's people see what other things they can do.
 

SpikeBlack

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I'm not against the idea, before vehicles launched many of us thought they would use oil+sweat just like ME but it didn't happen. Why? Only MA can answer that.

But remember, anything a free playing player can do an old depositing can as well. If it's profitable then they'll do it as well. The only reason old players don't sweat (as much) is because it's boring.
 

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The main objective I have with this suggestion is to create a market for sweat, thus keeping the newbies around long enough to fall in love and become depositors. The extra mileage is the reason which will important for those who skill it (another way of building a career and another reason to stay around.

But again: if the complexity is your problem, just grab my workaround and have one single fuel, but different payouts (so a success lvl 1 would lead to 100 units, a success level 2 would lead to 110 units, unit being any relative number, not absolute).
The question I tried to raise - are the "gains" (which I think are low) worth the manpower (aka money invested)? We always whine about MA and their failed deadlines and slow bug fixes etc. I don't want them to work on something that in the end has very little gain and impact.
 

Neil Stockton

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The main objective I have with this suggestion is to create a market for sweat, thus keeping the newbies around long enough to fall in love and become depositors.
I'm against the idea since vehicle users will not get anything better out of the increased fuel cost. I don't like the idea of taking money away from decay-generating and economy-boosting players and giving it to sweaters, unless the players get something good in return.

If the improved fuel mix would make the vehicles go 50% faster or prevent TT decay, then I'd be generally for the idea. I definitely wouldn't make the production process so complicated though. Just refine oil and sweat in a refiner to create one type of super fuel... that's all you need to create a fuel that includes sweat. No "extra payouts", no skilling up.

The only valid reason I see to have multiple fuel types is if they do different things. For example, high speed fuel = oil + sweat + ingredient x ; TT protection fuel = oil + sweat + ingredient y. Those would be worth paying a premium for. If you want to make those craftable using BPs, I guess that's fine, but use the existing crafting system and use an existing profession (vehicle engineer or material manufacturer).
 
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Wollongong

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The question I tried to raise - are the "gains" (which I think are low) worth the manpower (aka money invested)? We always whine about MA and their failed deadlines and slow bug fixes etc. I don't want them to work on something that in the end has very little gain and impact.
Good point.
You can look at this from two perspectives. Short term, long term.

In the short term: no. This suggestion is not going to boost revenues to a level that you can immediately earn back the time and money invested.

But as in many things, the devil is in the details. This is one of those details in which an improvement can have very big positive effects for everyone. The retentionrate of newbies, of which a part becomes a depositor. The fact that more people tend to attract more people. More live is more depositors. Also the fact that you are able to boost your income when bad looting is a positive psychological effect, meaning others are less reluctant to spend their ped, etc.

That's the long term benefit, which -sadly- cannot be quantified right now.

@Neil: if you think you don't gain anything when you get +10% miles out of +5% cost (or whatever the marketprice will end up being)...then I'd say: don't use it. But that you personally don't see the benefit, doesn't mean it isn't there.

Your fuel ideas are quite nice though...but that bumps into the its-too-complex argument again, which was raised earlier.
 

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I feel this applies here unless the drop rate of sweat is bumped to reflect the added use.

Its important to remember that players who choose to support the game should not have to support none contributing members to much. Sweating needs to be a tiresome mondane chore, with poor results to better encourage players to contribute to the finical health of the game yet it also needs to hook the players who have yet to contribute prior to them quitting due to boredom and somehow not provide reasonable income to limit leaching.

I feel sorry for the person charged with balancing that. I have seen all the changes they have made to the system from day one. odds are they will never really be done with the system.

you almost never get anything for nothing. and sweating is nothing it could be placed in the TT or looted the "work" newbies to is not required. yet they get something for nothing with this activity a little free money and play time, even a chance at the big one. for the state of sweating as it is, I think its a good deal. its a working system I say its in a place where it can be left alone more or less now.
 

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Now, this lvl 2 fuel needs TWO oil. But this lvl 2 oil gives 118% milage compared to the basic.
If this unit of fuel requires 2 oil then it would give less miles than the previous fuel type ;)
 

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If this unit of fuel requires 2 oil then it would give less miles than the previous fuel type ;)
I meant it to be better :)
Luckily, some are better at math then myself :D
 

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Increasing the demand for sweat is not something MA wants I think. Quite the opposite. I believe they fear that in this current climate too many people would just farm away at sweat for cash and thus leave them with a loss instead of a profit. The only way I would see MA implementing this would be if they had an additional way of making a profit from sweating...

An example of this would be ingame adds for sweaters: every 10 attempts or so you'd get an add, like google adds or something. That would maybe make ma feel better about letting sweat get more value :)
 

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Increasing the demand for sweat is not something MA wants I think. Quite the opposite. I believe they fear that in this current climate too many people would just farm away at sweat for cash and thus leave them with a loss instead of a profit. The only way I would see MA implementing this would be if they had an additional way of making a profit from sweating...

An example of this would be ingame adds for sweaters: every 10 attempts or so you'd get an add, like google adds or something. That would maybe make ma feel betterut letting sweat get more value :)
Woah, I really hope they dont read this.. imagine this implemented into mob kills :D
 

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Possible long term gain? Well, it's hard to measure it (as you said already). Sweat is not here so that noobs can make peds, it's just there so they can do something for free. I think more impact could be achievable by developing low level player experiences in hunting, mining etc. Which in fact MA has focused on a bit already. Things like low level mission, puny mobs, rookie gear, new arrival zone etc.

There is no point in developing sweat gathering since it is not really a profession. Hunting on the other hand is.
 

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Increasing the demand for sweat is not something MA wants I think. Quite the opposite. I believe they fear that in this current climate too many people would just farm away at sweat for cash and thus leave them with a loss instead of a profit. The only way I would see MA implementing this would be if they had an additional way of making a profit from sweating...
Nobody will make any ped which was not deposited at some point, so that argument is not really strong.

An example of this would be ingame adds for sweaters: every 10 attempts or so you'd get an add, like google adds or something. That would maybe make ma feel better about letting sweat get more value :)
Hahaha, I think they should first hire someone to sell ads for the ad terminal, on a commission basis, no-cure no pay. I am still to see the first RL ad since I joined this world.

@Futurama: there is a point in sweating: for some, it is how they start their EU career. The first opalo and ammo, I bought -like many- with sweat.
 

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Setting aside any doubts about whether it could be implementend, how do you feel about the concept of refining fuels to a higher level using sweat?
You can make it all much simpler.

Remove the idea of crafting and BP's.

Now you "refine" crude oil to make oil. I would say a vehicle would not run on "normal" oil (apart from big ship engines maybe).

Now to make vehicle fuel, just take normal refined oil and sweat and put them in the refiner. 1 oil and 1 sweat to make 1 vehicle fuel.

But I guess this derails your concept of crafting. Btw, i dont think MA wants to introduce anything like giving skills for free crafting.
 

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I would pay ped for a fuel to make my vehicles go faster. Having car boat and jet would just be annoying.
 

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. Btw, i dont think MA wants to introduce anything like giving skills for free crafting.
Good point... so we need to find some way to increase the cost of crafting, while still keeping it worthwhile for the crafter....
 
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