Virtual Reality Visionary Vows to Create 300000 Jobs in Cyberspace - Sputnik International

Menace

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Make Virtual Reality Great Again!
 

CleverDevil

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My speculation . Teleport fee between new project MA work for VR , I remember a while ago ND did say something about AmeVRica ( www.amevrica.com ) . There is also another project from Second Life, called Project Sansar ( www.projectsansar.com ) . Maybe VR players can TP inside EU planets to play !?
 

mastermesh

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So.. anyone tried burning k1's rock buck xmas cash on the new tp thing on rt. Saw a couple of terminals up the hill from cnd by the empty mansion plot
 

SpikeBlack

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the easy answer is Neverdie has lost the sense of reality long ago. didnt he say he wanted to create 1 billion jobs in EU? xD
you dont need to be a genius to see that this is impossible.
It all depends on what you define as a job and whether you have to pay them to do it. Picking up fruit or dung could be defined as a job.

Generally when people see the term job used they assume it means one they'll be able to pay their mortgage, living expenses and bills i.e. not a few ped to then spend in game.

Why this is unrealistic has been pointed out - where does the cash to pay the wages come from? In order to afford to pay living wages you'd need so many paying players that having a few paid jobs seems pointless.

Let's assume that it's 10% paying and 90% being payed as quoted for mobile games. In order to pay a wage of $10,000 a year the paying customers will have to pay $90,000 plus any operating expenses to the system.

If it's the other way around 90% paying and 10% payed, why bother having the paid jobs?

In either case some of the people still need to have real world jobs so they still need the infrastructure.
 
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~CHOPPER~

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3 million jobs LOL

How's those 3 million jobs working out?

:laugh:
 

Dollymaus

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I dont want a bad paid virtual job and I dont want to pay for Teleporters

just give me some Markup to hunt for :yup:
 
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Million... to be fair, neither of you can count. :tongue2:
he wanted to create 1 billion jobs though. or has it changed since he has seen that not even enough people with internet access and being in a proper age exist to accomplish this?
 

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LangeTobias

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No offense to Neverdie but he seems more suited to a PR oriented role than any sort of economic infrastructure design. Reminds me of a certain President ;)
What a TRiUMPhant post! +rep :yay:
 

ZPF

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What a TRiUMPhant post! +rep :yay:
It has dawned on me that I should have kept politics out of this thread.

Apologies to any other children I may have set off on tantrums :laugh:
<removed>

Yours Truly,

Proud Conservative
 
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Haruto Rat

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It has dawned on me that I should have kept politics out of this thread.
People see what fits their established theories. I for one thought you were comparing ND to JFK :laugh:, and didn't see it as an attempt to belittle anyone either. That some people are better at making stuff and others at selling it - it has been known since, I dunno, ancient Mesopotamia?
 

Ace Flyster

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People see what fits their established theories. I for one thought you were comparing ND to JFK :laugh:, and didn't see it as an attempt to belittle anyone either. That some people are better at making stuff and others at selling it - it has been known since, I dunno, ancient Mesopotamia?
How dare you call Mesopotamia ancient? You some kind of brain-dead historian?

:cool:
 

DoA

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Assumed we put the bare minimum pay for such a 'job' at social security level, i.e. ca. $500 = 5000 PED
There are 90 countries where the minimum wage is lower than $1.25 per hour (so $200 per month for a full-time job); I assume social security level in those countries is about half of that, so $100 per month, so far from your $500.

Also, we all know that ND can be delusional at times, so I think what's important here is not to focus on his (evidently off) numbers but on the idea itself. Now I don't want to get again in a debate if that's good or bad, but just saying that it sure is interesting.
 

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There are 90 countries where the minimum wage is lower than $1.25 per hour (so $200 per month for a full-time job); I assume social security level in those countries is about half of that, so $100 per month, so far from your $500.

Also, we all know that ND can be delusional at times, so I think what's important here is not to focus on his (evidently off) numbers but on the idea itself. Now I don't want to get again in a debate if that's good or bad, but just saying that it sure is interesting.
The problem is not in the absolute numbers, but in the question of sustainability. Every system which relies on exponential growth, i.e. continuous intake of more resources/people to sustain the already existing ones, is going to hit a ceiling sooner or later. With the above I tried to raise this question. Every job, real or virtual, requires a certain number of paying customers to sustain it, which means it depends on permanent influx from outside. Where is this going to come from?

As for the dollar amounts: For that $1.25 I got a full meal in Jakarta, the capital city of a big country. I didn't even have to cook it myself, was served with a smile. The value is in the exchange rate, for the locals it is much harder to come by the 10,000 Rupiah equivalent. Guess what - about as much as we need to work for our own lunch in Dollar- or Euroland. The current paradigm is to pity all these people, while in reality they all get by pretty much on the same level as we do, as long as they're not torn by conflict. Only importing stuff they don't make themselves is a problem to pay for, and also the reason you don't see many of them as tourists in the world because reversed exchange value makes it unaffordable. But this leads to something completely new: In a networked environment, where they get the same chance to the same wages as anyone else in the world, they are suddenly at an advantage. Therefore you need to calculate the system so that it works out for someone at the upper end of the scale of basic living expenses. If you ever want to call it a job, that is, and not merely a game.
 

OZtwo

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There are 90 countries where the minimum wage is lower than $1.25 per hour (so $200 per month for a full-time job); I assume social security level in those countries is about half of that, so $100 per month, so far from your $500.
DoA in your way of thinking here, do you think people with these jobs in those 90 countries would even have enough money to play this game?
 

DoA

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The way I read ND's idea (please note that I talk about his idea, not about his exact numbers):

Facts:
- World population is on a rise (maybe not in the well-developed countries, but worldwide it is)
- Since work is increasingly automated, fewer and fewer jobs are available for workers
- That means that more and more people will simply not be able to get a job because there will simply not be enough jobs for anyone

Now since we can't obviously let those people starve we should provide them some kind of income. And last year (actually exactly last June) in Switzerland there was a vote to allow a basic income plan ($2,560 per month for each adult and $650 per month for each child under 18). The vote failed (77% for NO, 23% for YES), but the simple fact that this was proposed is a sign that someday that may happen.

And while Switzerland was indeed the first country to vote on such a universal basic income plan, there are other countries and cities that are either considering the idea or have already started trial programs. For example, Finland is set to introduce a pilot program for a random sample of about 10,000 adults who will each receive a monthly handout of $625. The intent is to turn the two-year trial into a national plan if it proves successful. In the Netherlands, Utrecht is leading a group of municipalities that are experimenting with similar pilot projects. Even in the US, the idea of a guaranteed income has gained some traction, being promoted by some Democrats who are demanding more social justice, but it also has some right-wing advocates who see it as a better alternative to government welfare programs.

So we'll probably come to the point where we'll have to provide the people not able to get a job (because there simply are/will be more people than jobs) some form of income. Sure, one option is to just give it for free via welfare programs, but in this case, those people will be left with a lot of spare time during which they may cause problems and also it may cause more frustration to the people actually having a job knowing that the others are paid for doing nothing. That's why I think is better to create some fake jobs so there will always be enough jobs for everyone and what better place to create them if not in the virtual reality (where you don't have any added costs than the handed money themselves).

Sure, that doesn't mean that you or I have to pay for them; it sure has to be done in an organized way, paid from taxes, by governments, etc. But the idea by itself - of creating some fake virtual jobs that people without a job can do instead of simply receiving welfare is a really interesting one in my book.
 

Serica

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It has dawned on me that I should have kept politics out of this thread.
...
/mod note/

Correct. Real world political discussion has no place on this forum.

3.6 - Real-world Controversial Discussion
Discussion of real world politics, nationalism, religion, war, or other similarly controversial topics is NOT permitted or appropriate for this forum. PlanetCalypsoForum, as the game, is a global community with players from many different countries around the world. Discussion of such topics often disrupts the forum community. Therefore, refrain from starting or participating in any such discussions, as they will be deleted from the forum without notice.
:topic:
 

LMTR14

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The way I read ND's idea (please note that I talk about his idea, not about his exact numbers):

Facts:
- World population is on a rise (maybe not in the well-developed countries, but worldwide it is)
- Since work is increasingly automated, fewer and fewer jobs are available for workers
- That means that more and more people will simply not be able to get a job because there will simply not be enough jobs for anyone

Now since we can't obviously let those people starve we should provide them some kind of income. And last year (actually exactly last June) in Switzerland there was a vote to allow a basic income plan ($2,560 per month for each adult and $650 per month for each child under 18). The vote failed (77% for NO, 23% for YES), but the simple fact that this was proposed is a sign that someday that may happen.

And while Switzerland was indeed the first country to vote on such a universal basic income plan, there are other countries and cities that are either considering the idea or have already started trial programs. For example, Finland is set to introduce a pilot program for a random sample of about 10,000 adults who will each receive a monthly handout of $625. The intent is to turn the two-year trial into a national plan if it proves successful. In the Netherlands, Utrecht is leading a group of municipalities that are experimenting with similar pilot projects. Even in the US, the idea of a guaranteed income has gained some traction, being promoted by some Democrats who are demanding more social justice, but it also has some right-wing advocates who see it as a better alternative to government welfare programs.

So we'll probably come to the point where we'll have to provide the people not able to get a job (because there simply are/will be more people than jobs) some form of income. Sure, one option is to just give it for free via welfare programs, but in this case, those people will be left with a lot of spare time during which they may cause problems and also it may cause more frustration to the people actually having a job knowing that the others are paid for doing nothing. That's why I think is better to create some fake jobs so there will always be enough jobs for everyone and what better place to create them if not in the virtual reality (where you don't have any added costs than the handed money themselves).

Sure, that doesn't mean that you or I have to pay for them; it sure has to be done in an organized way, paid from taxes, by governments, etc. But the idea by itself - of creating some fake virtual jobs that people without a job can do instead of simply receiving welfare is a really interesting one in my book.
only stupid and simple people cause problems when left with too much time on their hands. that is why massively improved education must go hand in hand with robotisation. unfortunately, democracy in the current form is based on keeping the voter stupid enough to not rebel against systems that are corrupt by design. there is no such thing as a honest politician, and that is for a reason. if somebody was idealistic and really concerned about the benefit of all people, he would never get voted into office.

of course, fascist systems (think Russia, Turkey) require to keep the common man stupid just as well.

keeping people busy is no new concept. panem et circences. of course that work potential could be directed into much more useful directions (data analysis, digitalisation projects and all kinds of scientific (micro-)tasks). but all of that requires to excise the stupid factor first. the average human being is extraordinarily stupid (I won't go into details right now). western society itself has to change. smart has to become the new cool. stupidity must not be tolerated whatsoever, and every single individual can make a contribution to that cause!
 

the-unknown

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I think if income of about USD 1 per hour is considered viable, it may actually be easier to sign up for a service such as the Amazon Mechanical Turk and earn US few cents to a few dollars an hour.

And there are other things you can do to earn small amounts of money as well. For example I got about USD 5 the pass month by doing some google surveys. Took me maybe 10 minutes in total to do the various surveys. Do all these "small jobs" and it should be viable to get USD 200 or more a month pretty easily.

It will require a lesser computer / internet connection to work with, and so initial costs for the impoverished "worker" will be lesser.
 

San

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I think if income of about USD 1 per hour is considered viable, it may actually be easier to sign up for a service such as the Amazon Mechanical Turk and earn US few cents to a few dollars an hour.

And there are other things you can do to earn small amounts of money as well. For example I got about USD 5 the pass month by doing some google surveys. Took me maybe 10 minutes in total to do the various surveys. Do all these "small jobs" and it should be viable to get USD 200 or more a month pretty easily.

It will require a lesser computer / internet connection to work with, and so initial costs for the impoverished "worker" will be lesser.
I've looked into a few things, including the services mentioned. There aren't enough buyers for those microtasks to keep you afloat even at that level. A dollar an hour, yes, but not enough hours to get anywhere near putting food on the table. Survey links I keep getting sent by my gf who never hears that every single one I open tells me my region isn't eligible. The buyers don't want clicks from those who aren't relevant to them.

Yes, it's doable for limited time, limited locale, and limited number of workers. It could be expanded to feed more people. But you still need a multitude of buyers to support one worker. This cannot scale to encompass an entire population. Neither in VR.
 
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