Info: Warp flight service reviews

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Hello Anthony, i have to wonder why you ask me to provide info again, you have several pms of me with all the info you just have to update your review with facts. I know posting pms is forbidden according to forum rules, but i guess this is related to someone posting a received message in public and not to forbid someone to publish his own opinion - so based on this assumption i will post a part of info of my own pm to you here again as it contains a good deal of information - funny though is that you quoted my pm to you and published it taking it partly out of context and drawing the conclusion that only TP's are safe without asking my permission. Your review should clearly list the options advantages and disadvatages of station and atmospheric docking without mixing it with personal opinion - when doing a review you have to go by fact and and pretty valid fact is that Normandie has a 100% safety statistic for passenger transports with atmospheric docking - so instead of stating theoretical possibilties for all of which i gave you counter measures that are applied by us you should go by facts and that would include to compare how many passenger got lootet with which service provider since their start of operation - that would give you a real indication about safety of a certain service.
Here some of the info i sent to you:
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Crewsubscription on the Normandie is a discounted subscription, its not that you have to pay to work its that you pay half of what a vip does for making sure the ship stay intact and you get even safer to your target.
You only counted the scheduled passenger flights, however on the non transport days the Normandie also performs warps to special hunting locations at least 2 on thursdays and saturdays sometimes moreding how many different mob locations we visit. The Normandie also sents out summons when performing vip flights, so everyone who is vip or crewsubscriber can join on those vip flights for free to get to another planet outside of regular schedule. The actual number of warpflights including those unregular vip flights is well above 100.
The reason why Normandie charges more for vip flights then other service providers is because we offer the highest security avaiable if called and because we dont want to be called to much for vip flights as we already have a pretty dense schedule - so interupting the program for subscribers to transport someone else is of course charged accordingly - which is also the reason why our vip prices are higher during our main scheduled times then if getting called outside of that timeframe. The reason why we charge 10ped for each additional passenger on vip flights is also easy, this is to avoid the raise of flight agencies who gather passengers and then just book the vip flights on their behalf - sadly some other subscription service providers have just copied a part of our concept and didnt think further when it came to vip flights.
Yes the Normandie has 86k+ structural integrity and we are not just beyond the top 10 we are the clear number one with that SI level, number two is Dreadnought with around 66k, 3 is Bjorn with around 60k,4 is Krusenstern with around 56k and everyone else is ~40k and beyond. Bismark of efa doesnt even have any mentionable si according to my info.
About your statement that we dont do atmospheric docking on all planets, we actually do it on all every week, there is just a few exceptions where we dont do it the second time when we already have done it the same day as the second flight mainly is just to regather those subscribers who wished for a longer planetary stay before heading back - people have choice on our service on when to return.
You also missed out on our longterm subscriptions, we offer 6month subscriptions and annual subscriptions - the info for those can be found on pcf in a separte thread linked from the warpflights thread and on ark forum straight in the normandie thread - however we dont have it straight on the webpage yet as to give passengers an impression of our service first before having them decide if they want to subscribe longterm. 6month sub is 500 crew and 1000 vip and annual is 900 crew and 1800 vip which is a 25% discount compared to monthly subscriptions.
In regards to repairs you should also mention that Normandie and Kronan both supply tools and wires at boardprice which makes skilling on those ships much more eco then if choosing one of the others where people need to buy from auction. On Normandie the boardprice for tools is 10ped and wires 200% - considering auction prices a hardcore repair skiller can safe 200-400ped per month skilling on the Normandie then if skilling on another ship where he buys stuff from auction.
Normandie also provides shuttle support if people need it, i always have several thruster equipped shuttle on me to help people to get down planetside at atmosphere if they have no shuttle or otherwise free seat with someone else. This of course needs to be requested when we asked in forcechat who wants to go down.
About communication channels, we have a radio right, we have teamspeak correct, we have skype for individual cases were needed, but yes we dont run a skype chatroom for this - we however have forcechat ingame which should be the main communication channel since we offer logged in transpot - we also always make sure that our arrival times are safe for people to log in without worries - if there were delays or any danger to the ship the ship would be docked in bluezone at the time people plan to log back in.

What i missed in your review is the average time a ship needs to perform a scheduled flight, many people dont want to spend much time traveling and the Normandie runs a pretty dense and accurate schedule while other providers often have delays - this should be a major point in a review to look at - exspecially since some flights might get delays due to weak ships getting shot down and having to head out again. What i also missed is how other services handle their schedules when the spacecrafts owner is on vacation - i know some of your reviewed services just dont run their schedule then or skip summons - however the Normandie service has back since around september when mindark fixed docking in space provided summons every single night and i have been operating the ship or replacement ships (yes i have been organising replacement ships for my subscribers at no further cost they even got the number of inconvenient days added to their subs for free - back when space bugs were lots out there and mindark made Normandie unaccessible for 2 days) every single night since i aquired the Normandie in the night 30th/1st june/july 11. This is reliabilty and quality of service which i deem important in a review. Over the last years time i have gifted free hoverpods to my subscribers and lots of additional free travel days about around 28 days of free travel were the subscriptions extended due to various occassions either certain celebrations, event supports or compensation days when mindark bugs caused us to have some minutes delay - so you see you cant just break it down to one number.
When comaring total possible costs please also conider wheter its station or atmosphere this can add up alot over time, also if the service usually has enough passengers that seats can be shared (this makes up for another ped saved on average per flight).

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Going further i will give you a figure about why you need to consider atmospheric docking when comparing services: About 95%+ of our passengers are utilizing atmospheric docking !
So if you dont want to count this process for 100% take the 95% or travel with us and count yourself how many head down and how many wait for tp - while you are at it you can also meassure how many of the heading down passengers share regularly their shuttles to save further peds - you will notice that this is the case in over 50% and those who do not mostly are because they like to fly by themself.
And to end my info post here another figure for you that you can check back on if you want:
The Normandies average time to arrive secure at the target planets atmosphere after her scheduled departure time is below 5minutes - we fly our scheduled flights regardless of the number of passengers - always.
 
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FFS, You've compared daily rate on two services (Kronan and Normandie) with subscription rate on two others (DN and EFA) without even stating as much. And you accuse others of making unfair comparions!

Personally i think that a price-per-flight based on subscription rate is unrealisic as it would be a very rare person who availed themselves of every flight. However, I've no better ideas for drawing simple, direct comparisons. So I think that's OK, so long as you do it consistently for each service, ofc, and clearly state the basis.

jay :)

Hello,

I go with that. fix price per flight calculation based on a subscription fee and total numbers of flights per month possible is for me too rational inside a guide.
If I got a subscription for 100 ped and do 2 flights per month a flight cost me 50 ped. Then I go to anthony and ask for payback cause I relied on his guide. :D Some maybe don't understand it properly and think that they have to pay the PPF ontop each flight with a subscription. People are different alot.
It's like flatrate of a mobile phone provider. Lot people think that they are running good with a flatrate but dont recognize that the minutes they call per month are so low that they are causing a way higher price per minute than what a contract without flatrate would cost them indeed.

I would maybe just add a sideinfo at each subscription info like:
"If you just plan to travel a subscription offers the possibility to lower your price per flight based on the numbers of flights you do. If you do enough flights you can reach a lower price than what a single flight costs. It's up to your activity."

It be nice if it would be easy visible what service and performance do I get inside each available subscription.

200 Ped per month VIP:
- Travel all shedule flights you like
- Atmosphere exit
- Repair skilling possible but not a must
- Access to gunner seat on hunting session
- 25 ped welding wires included
- 2 RK-5 tools included
- Alcohol allowed
- Stripshows

Personal judgement about what is greed and what not I would leave out. The info what is charged for what is enough. People judge by themself about that.

Maybe some backgroundinfo about the heads of the organisations. "how long inside eu, how long doing travel business. Why doing this" and so on. I like to have information with whom I fly. For some not relevant infos for some they are. Group pictures of each crew round the guide up but not necessary.

Info about Ship SI. If the logout will ever be removed then info about the active crew while operating a flight would be needed.

The idea of a space travel guide is good. I think the Op will handle it. He's experienced.
 
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Diversity in the review would be grand as well - like looking at the certain services from different types of customers perspectives - take Kronan they offer grand skilling and once a week passenger flights to all planets for an awesome low subscription rate - for their target customer group they have an top offer out there and this should be visible for someone reading up your review.
 
Like many others in this thread I also realized how much cheaper EFA was than many others and use them when I switch planets. I'm only using VIP flights tho since I want to go when I want to go and not wait.

Since I hate space I also avoid traveling as much as possible and then there is no subscription that fits that part of the playerbase :x
 
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the numbers would still be the same it is done PRICE PER FLIGHTmeaning it does not matter if its weekly or monthly it done by the number of flights the service privides. and yes you are known as a great skilling ship as i myself have been on your ship for weeks at a time lol skilling. so you are not known as a transportation ship but mainly a skilling ship. but like all the others you are one of the most active ships in the EU this is what i wanted to point out your service

Heh thanks. But still, the price per flight varies greatly if you take one type of subscription and compare it to another. A single flight (1 ticket during scheduled warps) on kronan is 10 ped... but a subscription for 1 month and access to all flights for the month is in comparison only 30 ped. So PPF for the two types of flights vary greatly which is why I suggested comparing same type of subscription for the different services. :)
 
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Terminator I would love to supply the info about si on ships but that info is not public information it is only available unless the ship owners want to give it out. JBK is open about his si and even post it on his website. I did do a ppf that is like I said if you hit each planet the web site that I offered has each services schedule on their website which I furnished in the review. Atmosphere was hit on as well

Anthony i think i should mention that SI of ships is very much public information, cause everyone who travels with a ship just needs to carry a single belkar ingot with him to check himself. As soon as you are added to a ships guestlist you can go to the si terminal and add the ingot which will give you a message of how much SI the ship has. Everyone can check it.
 
I want to thank you for preparing this. It's the first time i've seen this information posted in comprehensive enough format to care to update myself on the state of professional space transportation. Perhaps the most useful way to handle the cost comparison would be to prepare a "monthly travel cost" table with columns for VIP, 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, and 14 trips/month showing the best cost for each service possible for that number of flights, with the best in each column bold. Any service that offers less than 14 flights a month or no VIP flights would have one or more empty columns, obviously, and you would add a few footnotes for special cases.

While i happen to agree with your editorial comments, the review would be better (and you less subject to spam) if readers were allowed to draw the conclusions themselves.

PS Due to limitations of forum markup, the best way to do the table is probably to upload a GIF format image of a prepared table to the gallery and include the image.
 
Sadly I think this thread, though started with good intentions has gotten a bit out of control. When Anthony Morris first started doing his research for this thread I did warn him to be careful and try to ensure he did not appear to be biased and to be very careful to not show loyalties and favouritism in his "reviews".

He did ask me both by PM in these Forums and personnally, several questions on how we run EFA and our intentions. Information which I freely shared with him. I also know he tried to contact other Mothership Owners and Warp Service Providors in regards to their Services with similar queries. I believe that most were very helpful but there was one or two who did not make much of a response to his enquiries.

It is undeniable that while the Bismarck only has a low Structural Integrity, Atmospheric Re-entries is something we will not practice, other than when requested on VIP and RUF Flights. The only reason we do not offer this on Scheduled Flights is because of the time factor caused by the nescessity of having people log out to protect thier stackables. The problems are initially caused from the need to avoid lossess during departure from PVPer/Piracy incurrsions. It becomes expodential when an unknown amount of time is required for Passengers who wish to risk this kind of Planetary Re-entry to log back in once we have reached the Plannetary Re-entry Position/Location.

We all know, only too well, that logging into EU can sometimes take several attempts and several minutes. Once the Bismarck has a better Structural Integrity than what it currently has(2707 SI per repair point = 10828 total), we may reconsider and make this option available to customers.

I must clarify however that due to problems that may be caused by this kind of re-entry I personally do not like, nor trust it and would not recomend it to anyone carrying stackables. To the contrary, I have found that a lot of people who do carry stackables would much rather not use it anyway.


Constantly quoting and calculating on only the best case scenarios to create a pretty picture to sell a service, only seems to create confusion and misleading debate. I have seen one particular service that seems to concentrate all their efforts on this as well as expounding unprovable facts and claims. I fail to see how postulating exagerated trivia can improve a service.

It is absolutely pointless breaking down the total cost of a "Subscription" to its costs per warp for the total possible flights available. Average uses of that Services Subscription is what should be considered. I doubt that there would be many, if any, that use every flight and get off at every Planet on any of the services provided.

For anyone to compare the cost of using Atmospheric Re-entry against the cost of Space Station Teleportation Re-entry, without accounting for the individuals reasons for their particular choice is ludicrous. It is my experience that very few people would even consider using Atmospheric Re-entry when carrying stackables. With this is mind the calculations on this should be done majorily on:

1. A person with no stackabeles using Atmospheric Docking compared to a person with no stackables going from a Space Station Docking to an Atmospheric Re-entry.
Or,
2. Wherher the person with stackables chooses to use Atmospheric Docking or if they would rather use the Space Station Teleporationr Re-entry System.


In the case of:
1. Additional fuel costs and time is hardly worth considering. Whether the individual wishes to withstand possible harrassment by PVPers/Pirates, definitely needs to be considered.
and
2. If you are the type of person who chooses to take the minimal risks involved with Atmospheric Re-entry and you base your choice of Subscription on cost effectiveness, I believe(and I may be slighty l out on this) after approximately three(3) warps per week, ToS Normandie Subscription of 100 PED per month, becomes cheaper than the EFA 50 PED per month, where you only have the choice of Space Statioin Teleportation.

Keep in mind, the latter may not always be the case. However, at this stage, even I would recommend considering a service that offered this optionif the risks did not bother you.

Finally, there will always be those who will choose one service over another for personal reasons, not just economical reasons. I would like to believe that most services are being offered with honesty and intergity as a paramount part of their service. I also believe that good Transport Services will improve Trade and Participantion between Planets and eventually help our Player Base to grow.
 
I want to thank you for preparing this. It's the first time i've seen this information posted in comprehensive enough format to care to update myself on the state of professional space transportation. Perhaps the most useful way to handle the cost comparison would be to prepare a "monthly travel cost" table with columns for VIP, 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, and 14 trips/month showing the best cost for each service possible for that number of flights, with the best in each column bold. Any service that offers less than 14 flights a month or no VIP flights would have one or more empty columns, obviously, and you would add a few footnotes for special cases.

I have gone to the trouble to produce tables and some cost based scenarios.

Information has been taken from the reviews, and all calculations are shown.

If there are any mistakes I will of course correct it, although I think I have the information correct. With the assortment of different pricing structures and options or 'selling points' available I have tried to stick to what I saw as the most relevant items.

Non-Subscriber Flights

Subscriber Flights

VIP Flights

Non-Subscriber scenarios

Subscriber scenarios

The most useful of these table will probably be the scenarios, as regular users can estimate how much they spend on flights, whether they are subscribers or not.

When choosing a service, compare all factors, not just those included in these tables. Read the reviews made by Anthony, visit the services own websites. There are other factors not included here that may be of interest to you. This is just complied information from the reviews.

I am quite clearly part of the EFA, and so any opinions could be viewed as biased, so I share none in this post. Just purely information provided from the reviews presented into tables for ease of comparison.

One thing I'm sure all services will agree with is that all services are passionate about what they do.

And well done Anthony for doing the brave thing and writing reviews.

Information I have not been able to complete in the tables...
Gunner seat access for subscribers & non-subscribers
Whether a passenger has to remain logged on

This is clearly indicated in the tables.

Information not calculated in the scenarios..
Lifetime subscription
3 Monthly subscription
How many planets you visit in a flight (they are all based on 1 planet per flight)

Any grey cells in the tables are where the info is not applicable.

I hope they are correct, I'm sure ill find out if they are not.
 
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For anyone to compare the cost of using Atmospheric Re-entry against the cost of Space Station Teleportation Re-entry, without accounting for the individuals reasons for their particular choice is ludicrous. It is my experience that very few people would even consider using Atmospheric Re-entry when carrying stackables.

I'd have to disagree. I routinely take large amounts of stackables down to planet via atmosphere, and I believe the majority of people would prefer to use atmospheric docking as long as they feel it's safe. Most Normandie subscribers use this method while transporting stackables. Whether it's safe or not depends on the crew and the SI of the ship, so once the Bismarck has higher SI, and people can travel safely while logged in, I think you'll see quite a demand for atmospheric docking from your customers. EFA does cater to the budget market, after all, and atmospheric docking saves 5-7 ped per trip.
 
It is a shame some folks have been less than helpful.

Closed by OPs request.

:locked:
 
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