We demand change to lootable PVP in space

[bard119]

New loading screen:

 

[[FM]]

What if all the sudden hangar owners get an way to transport people safe

Direct transport without risk for PvP an own VIP transport for selected destination

 

[sledgehammer]

Whiny bunch about pvp aren't you? Is space supposed to be a safe haven for everyone? Lootable space is the best thing MA has done for this game ever.

 

[Brad Numbers]

Makes sense for pvp'ers to defend lootable space.

I for one detest lootable pvp. If I want a pvp rush, I'll play some first person shooter.

It would be so easy for 8 VTOLs to camp some travel conduit, which would be more than enough to take out a single VTOL in no time.

I have no plans for space travel anytime soon.

I don't have a problem with a portion of space set aside as lootable pvp like the quadrant around the pirate base, just clearly marked and reasonable for traveling around (not 100m wide pvp strip across the map where we still have to cross).

Well, I think the poll should speak for itself.... The OP made the very rash assumption that because his easy trade route was lost that every player would be outraged. The truth of the matter is that the poll is very even and more than half the voters do not believe that we should "demand" a change.

Personally I have never been into a pvp zone on the planet.... I am not a pker (at present lol) BUT I am looking forward to getting into space.

More than 350 users play EU, and not everyone votes. I don't think the poll has enough sample to support everyone's thoughts.

Never been looted eh? Try carrying loot from a nice hunt around, then fall off a wall into a loot pvp zone with a green dot waiting (the bug or lack of feature - there wasn't a warning about an upcoming loot pvp zone). Then get looted. I did, over 200 PED in stacks, and in a flash my gut was ripped apart. I felt so bad because it happened so quickly. I didn't plan to jump over that wall into a lootable pvp. (This example is about the surprise of a loot pvp, contrary to we know space is currently lootable pvp. But, in a flash a green dot(s) can appear and that's that).



I agree with MS9. I've looted many furniture bp (L), a lot of signs, and most of them take some kind of stinktree, midastree, firn, or bigwig. We can't get those on Arkadia. All of the enhancers, has anyone looted fire root on Arkadia? That would be an entire line of enhancers relying on a resource from another planet where it is limited. The Arkadia component bps loot several of the Calypso component bps. I'm not sure myself, but maybe future bps require components from the Calypso bps? What about tiering? Hardly any unL have dropped so we wouldn't know the resources they require. Speaking of rare resources, only certain mobs are dropping muscle oil (unless changed in recent VUs), so muscle is even rare at the moment. The current Arkadia Vehicle book is blank. The only vehicles, so far, can come from Calypso, either as crafted items, or people click up the parts on Arkadia to loot a vehicle BP. The vehicle parts take at least belk and melchi, of which I've found neither on Arkadia.


As well, the assumption of EU is there is no forum. How do people request for the resources they need on another planet? Can't buy something from auction if it isn't there. Much higher MU to cover space travel risk? I'll pass. Society chat for resources to send a trader over, perhaps, new player free lancers, who do they know? If anything, this forces communications, but ultimately, any traders pass the cost of the travel risk to buyers on the planet they sell their goods or crafters assume the risk and hope to not get looted.

 

[Svena]

Damn that direct TP period while MA finished stuff has gotten you people spoiled.

Planets were never meant to be easily connected worlds, and they shouldn't be. Lootable pvp is a great way to help insulate the economies from each other, which is very very much needed. This should also give each planet more freedom to do different things. I personally love this change, and hope it stays for good. Whiners that want a safe way to transport things need to realize the damage you do to starting economies by draining all their loot off, and stable economies by adding large amounts of off world supplies.




I will say however that the welding wire situation is COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLSHIT. Having to gather different planet specific resources to make something that is needed to do activities only with in the realm of what ever planet you are on is VERY BAD BALANCING.

Mixed planet materials for stuff needed only in space is fine, if you want to take the risk to travel in space, the risk of material transporting is just fine.

 

[Brad Numbers]

Having to gather different planet specific resources to make something that is needed to do activities only with in the realm of what ever planet you are on is VERY BAD BALANCING.

Mixed planet materials for stuff needed only in space is fine, if you want to take the risk to travel in space, the risk of material transporting is just fine.

Now with more planets and planet-specific resources, expect more BPs with the same sort of recipe. It's only the beginning. These will require trade with other planets, which is currently through lootable space.

And by the way, space thrusters take iron, I think? I've not found iron on Arkadia either. So, we can't even craft thrusters until we get iron brought in, or we brought a stack before the VU.

 

[Warpath]

I like the idea of space being a hostile environment. With ped to be made by those willing to brave it and do interplanetary trade. Really fits with the colonist theme, smuggling goods back through pirate ridden space to sell.

Saying that, the fact that welding wire is lootable is a problem and the main hinderence for me really exploring the far reaches (although I heard it will be fixed).

Maybe for those that do not want to brave space they could reintroduce the tp's, but make them much more expensive and put a weight limit on them so that regular players can still switch if they really want, but traders still have to ferry their goods through space.

Personally I hope they never bring the tp's back, but I thought it might be a middle ground for the 2 sides of the argument.

PS
Just for the record I am not a pvper, don't even have weapons for my vtol

 

[llmythll]

For all those mad about space being loot able:

An Uber vs a new player in space are on even ground, look at the SIBs on the weps I bet each one of you that reads this is already maxed. Mother ships are hard to take down due to the amount of fire power they have, they can easily take out the 8 VTOL campers a previous post mentioned and they could probably do it without taking much damage themselves.
Space is not all loot able anyway it is just the area between the blue circles that is loot able, yes it is still a PVP area but you will not lose you loot if someone kills you in them.

On a more positive side:

When you enter space you will want to fly around in the area you come out at, it’s a blue area so you will not be looted. Take some time and learn the controls, it is easy flipping upside down without you noticing, this makes your directions opposite what they should be, or if you get turned sideways then up will be right and down will be left depending on what side your on. Scroll all the way in so that your looking out from the cockpit the screen has allot of info if you pay attention to it.

If you do enter space looking for PVP:

I have been in space a few times and rarely seen others, it’s a big place, the radar will not tell you if someone is around so it is a good idea to constantly look around you, that’s the only way you will see people and yes they can come at you from all directions, above and below you are going to get you killed the easiest so pay attention!! Or not

 

[Brad Numbers]

I'd like to visit space, someday, since I've helped pay for it.

I could visit the safe zone and back down, I guess, but that's about it.

I'm just not interested in the loot pvp, regardless if I wouldn't see anyone from one side of the map to the other. I'm currently "forced" to travel through it, if I want to travel through space.


So a mothership destroys the 8 VTOLs, then lays in wait for more VTOLs to show up. The scenarios are never ending for attack and defense.

Fact still remains, resource A at point X required at point Y. Who takes the risk and who pays for it.

 

[das]

Now with more planets and planet-specific resources, expect more BPs with the same sort of recipe. It's only the beginning. These will require trade with other planets, which is currently through lootable space.

And by the way, space thrusters take iron, I think? I've not found iron on Arkadia either. So, we can't even craft thrusters until we get iron brought in, or we brought a stack before the VU.

you should look better & I'm not a full time miner

 

[valentin]

MA doing this only because they want the players to stay on planet Calypso because most players is there, and its because they wants to have more profit by stoping the players to go to the other planets.

And it was also the cause whay planet Arkadia was commanded by MA to do a "balance"...that's what I think.

 

[Brad Numbers]

you should look better & I'm not a full time miner

Neither am I. Until recently, my ore and enmatter finders were both over a year old since I bought them, and someone borrowed the ore finder for a couple runs.

 

[Mikass]

I`ve heard someone got looted there for 3k ped tt of ore already. The more this will happen the less people will travel. Simple as that. Results of this poll should also change significantly after a month or so.

How many people are hunting all those juicy markup mobs in pvp4 or mining there?

 

[MindStar9]

I`ve heard someone got looted there for 3k ped tt of ore already. The more this will happen the less people will travel. Simple as that. Results of this poll should also change significantly after a month or so.

How many people are hunting all those juicy markup mobs in pvp4 or mining there?

I don't think it will be too long before we see more and more of this happening. Space is still new, and it still seems vast and maybe safe to some, but it's only been a few days. I'm sure that there will be those trying to transport resources safely who will learn a real money lesson, and the more active space becomes, the more we're going to see a whole different kind of posting.

When it hits home and people experience the loss, the tides will change.

If I'm totally wrong about this, then I will be a big girl and come back and admit it, but ... if not, then I am reserving the right to come back and say I told you so.

 

[xaph]

On a lighter note Thrusters n Bable fish
Colonists having eventually dispelled myth will realise how adapation is requiste to become a true interplanetary nomad

 

[Lana]

I like pvp space

I`ve heard someone got looted there for 3k ped tt of ore already. The more this will happen the less people will travel. Simple as that. Results of this poll should also change significantly after a month or so.

How many people are hunting all those juicy markup mobs in pvp4 or mining there?

Pretty hard to loose 3 k of ore. On the other hand if you travel with 3 k of ore then hire some soc mates to protect you. Dont relly see the problem that traders do loose some money. Thay make alot of money. I relly like space as pvp 4 since it will creat some new jobs for players. Im a full time miner and ill start selling my ores on other planets and ill bring my own protection. It is not like you a forced to go to space. If you take the risk you can make alot of pet and loose a lot. No one forces you.

[video]http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=kc34qMgHXV4[/video]

And remember no one can hear you cry in space.

Sorry for my porly english gramma.

Kindly regards.
Lana

 

[Spawn]

Whiny bunch about pvp aren't you? Is space supposed to be a safe haven for everyone? Lootable space is the best thing MA has done for this game ever.

egocentric child aren't you? Is your viewpoint the only right one? Lootable space is the worst thing MA has done for this game ever.

Mirror mirror on the wall..

 

[aridash]

MA doing this only because they want the players to stay on planet Calypso because most players is there, and its because they wants to have more profit by stoping the players to go to the other planets.

thus forcing the planets to do what they are supposed to do, bring in new players, rather than cannibalise the existing player base. its not been done accidently, nor do i believe decided upon last tuesday, this would have been the long term plan. Neverdie told us space was going to be all about pirates, we laughed at him, but now...

Lootable space is the worst thing MA has done for this game ever.

lets go for a middle ground alternative: Lootable space is the most interesting thing MA has done for this game.

 

[Brumle]

MA doing this only because they want the players to stay on planet Calypso because most players is there, and its because they wants to have more profit by stoping the players to go to the other planets.

And it was also the cause whay planet Arkadia was commanded by MA to do a "balance"...that's what I think.

lol only idiots would let this stop them from going to other planets .... just dont bring stackable stuff

as far as i know you dont even need the 5 ped toxic shot like pvp3/4 to go there so you only risk stuff if you bring stackables

 

[thoeri]

I think lootable PVP in space is good thing for MU in the long term

Obi

 

[aia]

What about this idea:
Space is divided into two parts: Normal and lootable.

Then, planets are placed in a way, so
a) Normal planets are equally close to eachother. Not so that Calypso - Nextisland is 4 times as far apart as Calypso - Rocktropia when it comes to number of outposts between. Between normal planets, the space is *not* lootable.

b) Special planets with special resources are placed in an area where you have to cross lootable space. Also, planet partners can, if they whish, move their planet into "pirate territory" (for instance, a planet partner who wants a rough planet directed at people who like pk:ing, might want to have their planet in this territory). To ensure security, you need some sort of equipment to pass this territory simular to the antitoxic shot (for instance "gamma ray protection badge"), with the difference that if you get killed you don't lose it, it rather just falls off/unequips and ends in normal inventory as you arrive at a neutral outpost (so you won't get stuck), this is a security measure so passengers between normal planets don't go into pirate territory unwillingly (without this protection badge you die immediately by "gamma rays" or something). These badges can be bought at trade terminal at all spacestations. Another thing is that these badges can be unequipped so even if you once wanted to go through pirate territory once, you can remove them so you don't go there by mistake some other time when it wasn't the intention (if you happen to disconnect close to a border for instance and ship goes over the border before server disconnects).

This way people who just want to visit the traditional planets can do so without much problem. And high level traders who like risk can start trading with high-markup stackables through "pirate territory". Just make these planets interesting enough, but be sure to advetise them for professionals, not for everyone. Maybe let CP and old CND be in the pirate zone and keep the TPs the way it is today (since there are return teleporters) - from these places let people decide if they want to pay 17.5/25 ped TP fee (if they have loot) or travel cheap (with the risk of getting shot at). If owner of Rocktropia approves maybe same thing with Hell - you can either get safely back using a coin or you can do a risky ride back.

Also, this might be a boost for space generally, so that people who doesn't like lootable pvp can start to feel an interest to go explore in the safe areas in space and to visit the traditional planets.

 

[Infinity01]

What about this idea:
Space is divided into two parts: Normal and lootable.

All along I was with this impression until the release of space...

MA just loves to screw the cash cow more!

They might have a good current quarter coz of arkadia and and MS sale... I'm really intrested in their revenue in next quarter!

 

[Norbert]

...............................................

 

[dogofwar]

Here's another idea to combat pirates: Travel in groups.

Hire people in your society to protect you as you travel. If you stand to make a lot of money from trading, you should be able to afford to pay them fuel and repair costs if they get killed. Since there are multiple targets, with only one having any stackables, pirates wont know which to go for. If they start getting attacked by your hired guns, they'll have no choice but to fight back and defend themselves or die, giving you a chance to escape.

Remember, it's not like there are people in space that have modfaps, infiltrator and tangos. It's a level playing field.

There are solutions to the problem if you use your noggin...

I think you're jumping through blazing hoops (for free I might add) to justify the pvp status of space.

I never in my dreams would think they would make space pvp-lootable. Pvp in other games is almost always limited in some significant way. Most players do not like to have their goods stolen or to be harassed by someone else. Pvpers usually will exploit every rule out there. If there's a way to cheat, they find it. And they're usually really good at what they do. How are traders going to combat this? It's going to cause a lot of grief if left as it's! It will be interesting to see how the Real Cash Economy in EU changes the dynamics. Since pvp of this nature (full lootable, no conditions, etc) usually does not work elsewhere, unless with extensive and focused attention (like EVE Online), I wouldn't think RCE would change it much.

We shall see. One thing that's for sure, though, is how does MA ensure that each planet has a unique economy? Is just putting a price on traveling between them enough? Should the price be set in place or changing? Should it change in response to activities in-game by players, or the trial and error attempts of developers to balance the economy by observing it? Or a combination? Does MA think that making space pvp-lootable is the answer?

It'll be interesting to see how the players or developers combat a monopoly on trade routes by pirates and/or traders. Just because there's a risk in space does not mean that resellers that do trading between planets will be any less of a problem. Wherever there're humans, there're attempts to monopolize the system. That's one reason among a few others that pvp is heavily conditioned in most games in support of a common good.

 

[dogofwar]

To be honest i don't mind lootable pvp, if ever i travel i won't take things with me so no big shakes really. It comes down to if you don't like it don't use it, like i really dislike welding wires so sold vehicles and won't ever have a concern with them. Space- again not really interested due to the expense, and have other games that provide me more thrill for ship to ship, energy management, shield management etc.... waepon vs SI not really complex enough to hold my interest.

I took a shuttle on a fighter from planet to planet but thats about as far as i will use space currently, maybe things will change but for now i have enough to do on planet.

Simple really

I hear ya. EU is more of an Accounting 101 game than it's anything else. I have many other games I can turn to that have better things going on and complexity in the right kind of places. I mean, I can do comparisons between EU and other games that make EU look like kindergarten. And they're cheap! But then again, none of them have an RCE. None of them are hardcore like this. They're disposable. EU is not.

But that's the Achilles' heel of EU. You need mucho money to play it.

We should all get accounting certification after 3 years of this game. Or a bean counter qualification on our resume! "-3 years in Entropia Universe learning principles of business management and accounting, and working cooperatively with others gaining relationship and team skills as we progressed."

 

[dogofwar]

I`ve heard someone got looted there for 3k ped tt of ore already. The more this will happen the less people will travel. Simple as that. Results of this poll should also change significantly after a month or so.

How many people are hunting all those juicy markup mobs in pvp4 or mining there?

A hot potato.

Another thing we should consider is: is this fun? Not just the business side of it. From the business angle it might make sense to do this. But from the standpoint of a player just trying to have fun it might not. Not every player comes to EU wanting to treat this like work. They don't all come here with calculators and spreadsheets and ready for business in a dog eats dog world. For these, if the game ain't fun, then they ain't staying.

That's one of the complaints I've had about Rocktropia (at least up until 5 months ago). It wasn't fun because the world was so empty of things I associated with games: non-players, story, factions, quests, etc. If a player comes to EU and expects one thing but gets another they may be less likely to stick around.

But maybe the RCE element of EU is what I'm overlooking, or maybe not.

I want an "I don't know, and this topic isn't new to me." option on the poll.

 

[dogofwar]

EVE, and here you have many factors firstly it takes a long time to be able to fly a capital ship/dreadnought in eve, possibly years to be able to use it will adequate skills and the the fact that they can only be used in low sec space and if you cant defend it equip it with the right equipment to use it efficiently and it gets popped then well you need to go and buy another one that aint cheap at all...

EU, you pay 6k to 8k usd you get to insta fly, you cant loose them for good, just spawn it and away you go so no time consuming and for time people pay hard cash.

so all in all it balances out hard cash vs time

EU is the carebear PvP

EvE is more realistic

so if you want gppd space pvp goto eve otherwise deposit 6k to 8k usd

Could you expand on the "6k to 8k usd you get to insta fly,..." part.

 

[Lugzan]

... I can already foresee trading convoys with mercenary protection and pirate alliances...

I want to see that! I want to see one boat/fleet loading up let's say 100k market value of stuff and taking off the port while there is a bunch of sharks waiting... and then not waiting any more... but following... you know the music for the theme... but everything goes smooth for the first time and the second, so the crew grows all bold and the third time they drink rum while it's loaded for 500k..1M market value stuff, but sharks loot it, so it's cheaper for them than wasting money on the first rounds. damn, I want to see that happening - it'd be like watching somewhat legalized stealing on tv...


J.

 

[dogofwar]

I want to see that! I want to see one boat/fleet loading up let's say 100k market value of stuff and taking off the port while there is a bunch of sharks waiting... and then not waiting any more... but following... you know the music for the theme... but everything goes smooth for the first time and the second, so the crew grows all bold and the third time they drink rum while it's loaded for 500k..1M market value stuff, but sharks loot it, so it's cheaper for them than wasting money on the first rounds. damn, I want to see that happening - it'd be like watching somewhat legalized stealing on tv...


J.

Except that:
a) They went into space knowing they could be looted and their safety was not backed by actual law
b) They're not defenseless if they make the right choices
c) EU is not the justice department - i'm sure it's in their EULA that bad things can happen

But your analogy is hard to ignore. EU has been playing with a firecracker for a long time already.

It seems to me it's only a matter of time before there's a big lawsuit or some existential threat.

What's sad is that EU does this in the open. Real criminals don't. So what's MA thinking?

Do they deserve a Darwin award or do they know something about the details that gives them confidence?

Lets turn this around a bit.

Lets say I'm playing a game that's $40/month subscription. Lets say I get killed in a pvp zone and get most of my loot stolen. Can I now give the company a call and tell em that I want 5 months ($200) back? That 5 months is how long it took me to acquire that loot. I want a refund of $200 to compensate for losses.

That problem is made worse if it's microtransaction-based. Lets say that some of hte items that were stolen were bought in a cash shop. So now you want a refund on lost money because it was stolen from you.

This issue isn't confined to EU. It's just highlighted as a contnuing problem in the industry.

 

[Mr Trayles]

I'm really intrested in their revenue in next quarter!

In all my time here, I have never known this statement to mean anything other than, "I am betting (and hoping a little) that their profits sink."

The only time that I have known it to take a hit was the last switch over to the new CE2 engine. Other than that, everything, despite people's absurd wishes, has just grown the universe.

Space is a great step forward and I can hardly understand the how you could make it nonPVP.

First, it would be impossible to even explain. Mechanisms to protect the inhabitants in certain areas (even a whole continent) from civil disobedience is somewhat plausible. How the hell do you explain it that all of space has the same mechanism? Rediculous.

Second, without the dangers of space, the whole universe just blends into one big planet, as it was already doing so with the ability to just teleport to another planet. Now you have to actually smuggle stuff to other planets. This can set up the ingredients for interesting and rare items that need to be constructed from difficult to aquire locations amongst several planets. And I think great stories will come from some epic battles in space that just wouldn't happen without. It will be great.

Yes, space will be dangerous. But you will still be able to travel. It just won't be open to do everything with complete simplicity and the security of space police preventing your demise. And it shouldn't be!! It is what will make the universe a real universe instead of one big blob of the same old, same old. Space should be challenging. Not some taxi ride your next vacation spot.

So, some people may not challenge it. They will stay on their planet and do their thing there. That would be no different than when there was actually just one planet. That was alright then. It's fine now.

Well, whatever does happen with space, I am really disappointed in the people who do not even give it a chance. See how it will be. Because if we go to nonPVP space, imagine the difficulty in getting the community to go back to lootable PVP space. Imagine the complaining then! It would be impossible. The forums would become even more unbearable.

This is the one shot at keeping it interesting. Be strong from those who "demand" without even giving it a shot. Let's see how it works out. OK?

Thanks for your time.