Info: Weapon Review: Ashley & Perrin Series Mayhem BP-70, Perfected

Jhereg

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My Returns over last 1.1 million cycled

200k with BP70
600k with IMPKII
300k with LP100

Sometimes with amps sometimes without...

I had HA 9.0 to 10 in about 100k of the LP100, so might account for an extra 1k loss (at most) out of the 50k I've lost over the period. My TT return is 95.5%

Animal looter went from 58 to 68.

Just posting for an example of when your returns might not be as good...lol. You can't simply take a couple data points from two players and take it as gospel.

 

Sub-Zero

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Nice figures there but your results can't be really take into consideration since you recently got 2 x 9k :D
Those are (I'm sure deserved) not regular loot. Those are after a very dry period or before one so w/o those probably you'd be around 97% which would make more sense given the effi and looter, for longer term.
Good numbers nonetheless and definitely a very good weapon!
Without those 2x 9k. 99.64% TT return.
 

pechunter

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I did alot of of 2.0 weapons since launch (LP-40 perf, MK:6 FEN Claw, LP-70 FEN, Great argo FEN claw, MK.6 FEN mace, etc) and granted the returns was somewhat not horrible they completely sucked all the fun out of the game, 4hrs without global was very common and i had 1 hof per month if lucky. Now i went back to yeòlde I2870 and i get tons of globals (20+) in a day and a small hof almost daily. Atm i prefere playing for fun and not profit since the 2.0 VU completely removed the luck factor of the game =(.
 

Evey

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Without those 2x 9k. 99.64% TT return.
Still not regular loot m8. Cycles are much bigger than that and the loot can stabilize there for a few months or go in the cave Zho is hiding with his 95% or can be up and down a lot.
If people wanna know figures, they should look at the graph below, same efficiency, more dps, 30+ more looter levels, consistency over many years, from Smilgs' hunting log:




There's no other magic behind efficiency and looter and steady returns can be seen with consistent hunting turnover and maybe more looting events - avg. mob HP, rather than let's say big Feffox. Efficiency should not get people's expectations through the roof, a big efficiency tool will not stabilize you at 99% for long term as seen in the graph above.
If you want more globals and nothing else, 2.0 weapons are not the way for sure and best tool to get that is probably the swine deluxe or some DOA...


PS Maybe Girts could take out the portion of the graph where he only uses the Reaper's blade? In the name of science...
PSS The graph I'm showing is rather old, but still relevant..
 
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girtsn

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sarcasm or an actual messi quote? :D
(I mean the promise "Anyone will have these returns with that kind of gear!")
No, its just the weapon its not luck or anything. Anyone will have these returns with that kind of gear!
 
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Evey

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actually (in name of science :) ) i recently updated the public google spreadsheet to include a live chart and the summary sheet is there as well
It would have been interesting to see the portion of the graph with the sword that has 92.5% efficiency, just like this pistol. I don't know when you started using it, when you sold it, how much you cycled with it...
 

NIckki

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LP-70 FEN - 92.2 % EFF
95% time i am going unamped for safe EFF and hunt mob 1000-2000 HP
Orange Line TT Return 98.4
Blue Line my TT return Overroll after each Run.

Looter 47 too 62 now.

745k ped Cycle
97.73% Pure TT Return
98.36% After i convert all looted Shrapnel

As a result, we see 3 people with approximately one level of looter and one efficiency.

The first is Zho
Has кesult of 95.5

My result is 97.73

The third Sub-Zero has a score of 99.64, or close to 100 if it is correct considering all the loot.

Now the question is, if the settings are very similar 90+ EFF and looter 50-65 lvl, then why is there such a difference? And we really are not discussing 100k ped, we are already talking about the amounts of 1 million ped cycle

I have only 1 answer, 1 million ped turnover for the Game is just dust, you have to look at distances of 10 or 100 million ped only then in an infinite distance you can see the actual system settings.

What do you think about that?
 
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girtsn

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It would have been interesting to see the portion of the graph with the sword that has 92.5% efficiency, just like this pistol. I don't know when you started using it, when you sold it, how much you cycled with it...
think i got the sword in February 2018 and there were like 3 very good months that made me think this is it, around 100 tt return is back :)
but I think i also started using imk2 just before in 2018 for efficiency reasons
I would still say there was an improvement compared to modmerc / viridian which have 70ish efficiency, but more in the 95% to 97% range
so I don't subscribe to "anyone will certainly have 99% ish return with good gear" train, though it is a good line to increase the prices of the high efficiency weapons owned
 

Taldur

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I have only 1 answer, 1 million ped turnover for the Game is just dust, you have to look at distances of 10 or 100 million ped only then in an infinite distance you can see the actual system settings.

What do you think about that?
Nono, the gear is superior - dont you get that?

People have no idea how big of an impact sample size and big multis in this game have. Sub-Zero got lucky, Zho got bad luck, the truth is probably in between and also impacted by other factors (looter).

Even a 10M cycle will not be enough, because the parameters change on the way (e.g. looter).
But I agree: volatility makes it very hard to get any reasonable estimation of returns.
 

NIckki

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Volatility should have a specific limit.
I’m just saying that the difference is too big between almost the same settings.

And it composes, as we can see, up to 4% and for 1 million ped it is 40k ped.

INSANE.
 

allarom

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Volatility should have a specific limit.
I’m just saying that the difference is too big between almost the same settings.

And it composes, as we can see, up to 4% and for 1 million ped it is 40k ped.

INSANE.
I'd say it's 99% just BS from ppl, not volatility. A lot of folks who have 80%+ efficiency claiming to have near 100% tt return (especially when selling lol). Having this kind of efficiency along with the ~40vl looter, just doesn't make any sense- shouldn't I get even better returns considering ~66 lvl looter and 65% efficiency? Guess not ...
 

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Nono, the gear is superior - dont you get that?

People have no idea how big of an impact sample size and big multis in this game have. Sub-Zero got lucky, Zho got bad luck, the truth is probably in between and also impacted by other factors (looter).

Even a 10M cycle will not be enough, because the parameters change on the way (e.g. looter).
But I agree: volatility makes it very hard to get any reasonable estimation of returns.
I have been hesitant to post my returns mainly for this reason. People are never satisfied and it's never enough cycle. In my graph I already hit 96-97% tt return. Also 5 months without going below 99% TT return in a row.
Until I see my overall return go down to 95% like Zho's I won't believe my returns are purely luck. Even without all my ubers I've gotten in 2021 I'm still over 98% TT return currently.

In the example of Niccki and Zho they use their gun mostly unamped (Zho did with bp-70 perf).
I use my gun 98% of the time with amp dante or mod evil if I am using hyperstim/candy cane. That is around 162-172 dps at tier 3.

I believe higher DPS with high EFF (above 85%+ eff) plays a bigger role in your return than just pure eff number and lower dps. I suspect it has something to do with avg player base lvl has still not reached 80+ looter, and most use below 85% eff gun, so if you are using above 85% eff with highest dps possible you will be able to reach higher return than those who use less dps at same eff.

My returns were usually always worse when I use my gun unamped, maybe because of mob regen, just like def costs ain't fully compensated I don't believe regen is 100% compensated either. If loot is good and you're playing unamped that mean you won't take as much of the good loot as you could whilst using full buffs and amp, though same can be said if loot sucks but you can always take off the amp then when loot is dry.
 
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Evey

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I have been hesitant to post my returns mainly for this reason. People are never satisfied and it's never enough cycle.
As long as the results please you, that's fine, we just want to point out that 92.5% efficiency does not mean 99% tt return, with avg. looter levels, on short/long term.
TT return should be high, in my opinion around 97.5-98.5 % but in long term. I'm not 'picky' with the cycle for no reason, best data you can look at is Smilgs' log. And that is not bad luck either as yours is not pure luck.
I remember switching from gleamer to LP70 FEN, I noticed a sudden drop of %, with 3%; made no sense but it lasted a few months and that's when I noticed 1mil ped cycle is not that relevant to draw any conclusion.
One of the perks of loo 2.0 is that it's not immediately noticeable when you switch to high efficiency and it's normal. Pre 2.0 you could have noticed dpp impact within a day or two, now you need many months and it's not the same for two people.

I believe higher DPS with high EFF (above 85%+ eff) plays a bigger role in your return than just pure eff number and lower dps.
I agree with this, minus the 85% effi part. I believe bigger DPS will make the cycles smaller, due to much more looting events bringing more stable returns. That's why I said it in the past, in my opinion, playing with both the dps and efficiency of BP70, and with hgher DPS but lower efficiency, for many millions of peds, I firmly believe 92.5% eff is not equal to long term 99%+ at avg looter and also I firmly believe BP110 > BP70 because of the DPS factor.
I will soon get to tier 10 with my pistol and I would not trade it for a LP/BP 70 even if it had 100 efficiency because I can push the LP100 over 320 dps, that's like 50 extra dps and above XTLC1k

BP 70 is a great tool and the price is according to the demand I'm sure. I hope with this discussion people will have the right level of expectations when buying it, or similar tools.
 
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Jhereg

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Cycles to achieving expected value being smaller (in terms of ped not time) is simply a function of cost per mob. This can be accomplished either with smaller mobs, higher dps (if regen/armor decay is a problem), or higher dpp.

All in all, agreeing with what everyone says here. ~1 million cycle will not get you to expected value, which shouldn't be a surprise. And of course depends on what you hunt. I bet you can achieve expected value pretty fast on exarosaurs :p
 

M Rufen Power

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Of course depends on what you hunt. I bet you can achieve expected value pretty fast on Exarosaur :p
Why do you think that is? Yet people think I am nuts when I say you need 10000x the cost to kill as a ball park figure for the bankroll, but yet you can see these ubers cycling millions of ped lol.
 

NIckki

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Easy for calc.
I am hunt 1000-2000 hp mob
in Average 1500 HP

745k ped cycle = 160k loot event. The question that is a lot or not for get system number by your setup.
 
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When loot 2.0 got introduced most players naturally started out with an efficiency on their weapon that was higher then their looter profession which has led many to believe that efficiency is the end all be all and has to be valued above most other things - imo however as someone who worked his looter profs past his weapon efficciency and has cycled many millions of peds with such setup i think that efficiency and looter profession are 2 pathways that net the same advatages and are roughly aligned. So once you exceed a weapon efficiency with your looter professions your gain from the weapons efficiency will be miniscule at best the true gain then comes from its dpp which of course for the weapon in question is great as well but there is many other options out there with similar or higher dpp at lower valueation.

92.5% efficieny however is higher then most players looter prof levelsn and will likely remain higher then most active hunters looter profs for atleast 1-2 more years from then on the net benefit will be less though for robot looter it will likely remain for 3-4 years till people build up their professions. After that the value will mostly come from the newer players who still have to skill up and less from the estabilished hunters who will look for more dps/dpp.
 
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When loot 2.0 got introduced most players naturally started out with an efficiency on their weapon that was higher then their looter profession which has led many to believe that efficiency is the end all be all and has to be valued above most other things - imo however as someone who worked his looter profs past his weapon efficciency and has cycled many millions of peds with such setup i think that efficiency and looter profession are 2 pathways that net the same advatages and are roughly aligned. So once you exceed a weapon efficiency with your looter professions your gain from the weapons efficiency will be miniscule at best the true gain then comes from its dpp which of course for the weapon in question is great as well but there is many other options out there with similar or higher dpp at lower valueation.

92.5% efficieny however is higher then most players looter prof levelsn and will likely remain higher then most active hunters looter profs for atleast 1-2 more years from then on the net benefit will be less though for robot looter it will likely remain for 3-4 years till people build up their professions. After that the value will mostly come from the newer players who still have to skill up and less from the estabilished hunters who will look for more dps/dpp.
and why does he who wins Entropia use the best efficiency weapon?
 

girtsn

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:D love the Voldemort reference, he who wins everything more like it
and why wouldn't messi use it? its not like its missing out on dps?
and why does he who wins Entropia use the best efficiency weapon?
 

M Rufen Power

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When loot 2.0 got introduced, most players naturally started with an efficiency on their weapon that was higher than their looter profession, which has led many to believe that efficiency is the end all be all and has to be valued above most other things IMO however as someone who worked his looter profs past his weapon efficiency and has cycled many millions of peds with such setup I think that efficiency and looter profession are 2 pathways that net the same advantages and are roughly aligned.

So once you exceed a weapon efficiency with your looter professions, your gain from the weapon's efficiency will be minuscule at best; the true gain then comes from its DPP, which of course, for the weapon in question is great as well. Still, there are many other options out there with similar or higher DPP at lower valuations.

92.5% efficiency, however, is higher than most players looter prof levels and will likely remain higher than most active hunters looter profs for at least 1-2 more years from then on, the net benefit will be less though, for robot looter, it will likely remain for 3-4 years till people build up their professions. After that, the value will mostly come from the newer players who still have to skill up and less from the established hunters who will look for more DPS/DPP.
John, I can't rep this enough. Thank you for speaking the truth! You’re a credit to the entropian community.

High-efficiency weapons naturally have higher than avg DPP; to me, it makes the biggest contribution to people’s return and looter prof's.

I’ve been sharing this for a couple of weeks on forums; I’m glad someone like yourself can give it credence.
 
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tBANNA

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BP-70 perf is that kind of gun that if u want to have high DPS u need to touch the EFF, and for now in game is no BLP amp to help u keep them both, and for those who are soo pleased to have low dps, i can only say this....by the time the wave is gone u had the chance to smell in loot few comps ( or whatever the wave had in it )

now... is no1 in this game to convince me that there is any other weapon after Uniqdagg beside the LP-100 to have them all DPS/DPP/EFF in a such balance as this gun have them ( at least not yet )

yeah, bp-70 is a really nice and excellent gun, for a specific range of mobs, cause dont expect to sit in front of a high dmg creature and pew pew 3 minutes until u kill it and not pay for that attack, afterall the math is based on all facts not the gun itself alone, so when u go out hunting low DPS u pay the other stuffs ( time EFF, loot EFF, gear EFF-mixed all, etc )

in my opinion DPS is equal important as the EFF, and i will not chose a BP-70 for LP-100 in a mil years,
only someone who had the luck to hunt using an LP-100 can tell and seems those are less and less vocals about it ( they know why )

just my 2 pecs
 

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and why does he who wins Entropia use the best efficiency weapon?
who says he is using it because it's the highest eff?
don't forget it's also the highest dps weapon in the game (now that the tiered it up to t10)
like I have said in some other traits I think dps is highly underrated
more dps = more mobs killed in an hour = more chance on high mu items which surpases the little amount gained in tt returns from efficiency
this paired together with the high efficiency is the key imo

as for myself I went from using high eff to using high dps and avg eff (65) paired with lvl 60+ looter and i am doing much better
 
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who says he is using it because it's the highest eff?
don't forget it's also the highest dps weapon in the game (now that the tiered it up to t10)
like I have said in some other traits I think dps is highly underrated
more dps = more mobs killed in an hour = more chance on high mu items which surpases the little amount gained in tt returns from efficiency
this paired together with the high efficiency is the key imo

as for myself I went from using high eff to using high dps and avg eff (65) paired with lvl 60+ looter and i am doing much better
I think A&P Series Mayhem BP-110, Improved or ArMatrix BC-120, FEN Edition would be better :eek:
 
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