Info: Weapon Review: Ashley & Perrin Series Mayhem BP-70, Perfected

Kerham

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My Returns over last 1.1 million cycled
Seriously these are your stats? I never logged any activity in this game to not reach 97%ish at about 100k turnover and stabilize there if the rhythm is sustained. A slow casual low lvl is bound to reach about only 1% under your results. Something is off.
 

Jhereg

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Seriously these are your stats? I never logged any activity in this game to not reach 97%ish at about 100k turnover and stabilize there if the rhythm is sustained. A slow casual low lvl is bound to reach about only 1% under your results. Something is off.
I don't even know how to start responding to this :D. Perhaps you can elaborate on what might be off...
 

Kerham

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Okay, why should it be 3% more?
Because of efficiency impact. Were I to base my eventual decision of buying some 80% eff weapon on your results vs. my logs with ArMatrix, I would pass. Even with MU spent on ArMatrix I'd be overall at 96%. Also based on using LR40 fen (L) as long as it was available at a reasonable price, where ttwise I was spot on where efficiency would lead me, once I passed a very low threshold of turnover even, around 20k. Knowing your forum personna tho for years, I would hope that there is a serious difference of methodology between us, otherwise you're probably the most unlucky hunter I ever saw providing some form of data.
 

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Because of efficiency impact. Were I to base my eventual decision of buying some 80% eff weapon on your results vs. my logs with ArMatrix, I would pass. Even with MU spent on ArMatrix I'd be overall at 96%. Also based on using LR40 fen (L) as long as it was available at a reasonable price, where ttwise I was spot on where efficiency would lead me, once I passed a very low threshold of turnover even, around 20k. Knowing your forum personna tho for years, I would hope that there is a serious difference of methodology between us, otherwise you're probably the most unlucky hunter I ever saw providing some form of data.
I think you are probably underestimating the amount of variance that can occur even on very large amounts of cycle. You can certainly achieve expected value on small cycle, especially on smaller mobs, as you seem to state in your post. But if you don't get the larger multipliers you need, your tt can sink pretty fast.
 

Rick Sanchez

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Because of efficiency impact. Were I to base my eventual decision of buying some 80% eff weapon on your results vs. my logs with ArMatrix, I would pass. Even with MU spent on ArMatrix I'd be overall at 96%. Also based on using LR40 fen (L) as long as it was available at a reasonable price, where ttwise I was spot on where efficiency would lead me, once I passed a very low threshold of turnover even, around 20k. Knowing your forum personna tho for years, I would hope that there is a serious difference of methodology between us, otherwise you're probably the most unlucky hunter I ever saw providing some form of data.
Cool, so anecdotal evidence + small cycle > hard numbers + large cycle. Loot 2.0 has been totally refuted :drink:
 

Jhereg

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Because of efficiency impact. Were I to base my eventual decision of buying some 80% eff weapon on your results vs. my logs with ArMatrix, I would pass. Even with MU spent on ArMatrix I'd be overall at 96%. Also based on using LR40 fen (L) as long as it was available at a reasonable price, where ttwise I was spot on where efficiency would lead me, once I passed a very low threshold of turnover even, around 20k. Knowing your forum personna tho for years, I would hope that there is a serious difference of methodology between us, otherwise you're probably the most unlucky hunter I ever saw providing some form of data.

Also. The difference between 66% efficiency versus 92% effciency is 1.8% tt return.

66% vs 80% is probably about half of that, or just under 1% TT return.

Just FYI
 

Kerham

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I think you are probably underestimating the amount of variance that can occur even on very large amounts of cycle. You can certainly achieve expected value on small cycle, especially on smaller mobs, as you seem to state in your post. But if you don't get the larger multipliers you need, your tt can sink pretty fast.
There is hardly such thing as not getting those multipliers. Activity has to be extremely erratic for that to happen, and looking at your EL profile, you got them, actually. Are we counting the same things? I count as tt expenses weapon decay, ammo and amp decay and, separately, armor and fap (because i don't believe is reimbursed 100% and anyway i like to compare that for various mobs). However, when I gave these figures I meant everything, defensive decay included. Shrapnel I count as tt in, and when converted it becomes tt out, with UA as ammo for when is used and 1% accounted for in MU. Do you calculate anything significantly different, such as to affect the results?

I am not ignoring anything, your results correspond to about 36 eff.



Cool, so anecdotal evidence + small cycle > hard numbers + large cycle. Loot 2.0 has been totally refuted :drink:
You misred my post. Like, entirely. My stance is the exact opposite of what you mention.
 

Rick Sanchez

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You misred my post. Like, entirely. My stance is the exact opposite of what you mention.
Don't see how it could be, seeing as you're still only telling us stories about your 20k cycle instead of showing your superior calculations.

I am not ignoring anything, your results correspond to about 36 eff.
And...I'm done here. Laughable.
 

Jhereg

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There is hardly such thing as not getting those multipliers. Activity has to be extremely erratic for that to happen, and looking at your EL profile, you got them, actually. Are we counting the same things? I count as tt expenses weapon decay, ammo and amp decay and, separately, armor and fap (because i don't believe is reimbursed 100% and anyway i like to compare that for various mobs). However, when I gave these figures I meant everything, defensive decay included. Shrapnel I count as tt in, and when converted it becomes tt out, with UA as ammo for when is used and 1% accounted for in MU. Do you calculate anything significantly different, such as to affect the results?

I am not ignoring anything, your results correspond to about 36 eff.





You misred my post. Like, entirely. My stance is the exact opposite of what you mention.

TT in: weapon , armor, and fap costs.
TT out: All loot
Properly backed out shrapnel conversion.

(Pretty simple, tt used versus tt returned)

I think you are missing the point. During this particular 1.1 million ped cycle, I got almost no loots over 1k ped, resulting in an extremely low tt return. Certainly I do get hofs sometimes. But the point you are missing is that the variance is much larger than you might expect.

Do I expect loot to get better? I sure hope so. Clearly other players with similar gear and skills has (See subzeros original post of 100%+ returns). Edit: Here's the post link of his returns he posted earlier in thread: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...es-mayhem-bp-70-perfected.280239/post-3745534

Also, you can't really associate a particular tt return with a particular efficiency. You can compare expected tt return differences of weapons of different efficiency that you will use, but once you talk about different players, then looter skill comes into effect, and all bets are off.

Bottom line is: The amount of ped cycled to get to expected value is likely much larger than 1 million peds.
 
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Kerham

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Don't see how it could be, seeing as you're still only telling us stories about your 20k cycle instead of showing your superior calculations.

And...I'm done here. Laughable.
Ok, let's make a debate exercise then.

If

1. I am writing bollocks
2. high eff is normal to give 95,5% over ONE MILLION turnover

then why should one even buy high eff items?

Here's my (very) erratic log from hunting a bit in 2019 (and that's even with trying regular ep41 at times)



But the point you are missing is that the variance is much larger than you might expect.
The only possibility for this to be a thing is that variance itself to have a log. progression per tiers of cost-to-kill-event and you to be, I don't know, in the realm of constant 30 ped per kill actual cost, just as a hypothesis. In my world, up to around 7 peds per event, your results don't exist and I see them regulated very fast, very rarely would need 1k tries. I play anyway alot when I am active, but if I am actually putting the hours (8-10) and stabilize as much as possible (weapon used, maturity, buffs etc), I actually tend to score higher than eff would grant. I don't believe looter level has any kind of impact in the perspective you mention, I am barely 36. The one aspect which I believe has a disproportionate importance is turnover/time, MA likes that and pays for it (with tt trash, but still). But then again you can't make 1M by not playing. Were it anybody else than you (or, to countour the group, somebody like Oleg and such), I would say you're talking bs. So I sincerely have no idea what to say/think on the matter.
 
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Slyk

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Ok, let's make a debate exercise then.

If

1. I am writing bollocks
2. high eff is normal to give 95,5% over ONE MILLION turnover

then why should one even buy high eff items?

Here's my (very) erratic log from hunting a bit in 2019 (and that's even with trying regular ep41 at times)

I have had 94% with 80% over 1million cycled. I also did 100%+ for all of MM with the same. (roughly 600k cycled MM)

If we're discussing millions of ped cycled, we should all post our profession rankings to see who has gathered more data :)
 

Jhereg

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Ok, let's make a debate exercise then.

If

1. I am writing bollocks
2. high eff is normal to give 95,5% over ONE MILLION turnover

then why should one even buy high eff items?

Here's my (very) erratic log from hunting a bit in 2019 (and that's even with trying regular ep41 at times)

You need to make a viewable link to share :D
 

Kerham

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You need to make a viewable link to share :D
damn :)) refresh, please



I have had 94% with 80% over 1million cycled. I also did 100%+ for all of MM with the same. (roughly 600k cycled MM)

If we're discussing millions of ped cycled, we should all post our profession rankings to see who has gathered more data :)
There's no secret to it, 68 the biggest, laser pistoleer. (and 82 naturally agi, discounting what i got from various missions/meta. Chipped out heavily alot of times at around lvl40, I don't know where my entirely natural level should be over the 15 years I played). I did stayed religiously under 4 ped per kill though for almost the entirety of my playtime.
 
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M Rufen Power

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I think the variance is somewhere around 2.1%, just my opinion on that; please don't ask how I know this.

Just because 1 player is getting 100% doesn't mean that is the expected return of a particular setup.

I have experienced returns as high as 99.88% to the current 98.46% due to the right multipliers.
 

RickEngland

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So you pay 200k peds upfront, with an "expectation" of hunting for free. Or use something else and have 200k on your ped card or in your RL bank.

Do you need a 2x 30k rings with that, and 60k of armour, plus a 100k bankroll?

Nice kit if you can either loot it or win it to begin with.

Alternatively you can have 200k of investments that pay a passive income, that would cover any difference in loot using a much cheaper weapon.

I wonder what the market is for s 200k gun? One potential customer per 5 years? With a very high risk that the day after purchase, MA will announce a new weapon with better stats.

All is good apart from the price tag.

Rick.
 

Evey

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I know you are being sarcastic, but hyperinflation is not good for the game.
I agree, somewhat, but let me remind you imk2 used to be over 200k at some peak moment in the EU economy and only a coincidence turned that around....
Restocking would do far more harm than good to the game.
 

Jhereg

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I know you are being sarcastic, but hyperinflation is not good for the game.

In response, I'm going to quote my own post above...


Also. The difference between 66% efficiency versus 92% effciency is 1.8% tt return.

66% vs 80% is probably about half of that, or just under 1% TT return.

Just FYI
Of course, the newer weapons have some nicer dpp generally also...
 
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