Help: Weapon suggestions for oldtimers

minim

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I started playing again late this summer after a long break. With this 2.0 loot system I’ve been doing some tests with various 1.0 gear (slug,mkvme,enigma++) with similar efficiency and parameters and now I kinda want to test either a low decaying gun like i2870/modmerc or high efficiency one like the EP-38 Nightspecial augmented/Weak claw FEN.

Are there any other weapons I should keep an eye out for in the price ranges of the ones above? Any other recommendation’s or tips?
 

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i2870 or MM. ep38 breaks after like 1h and is too high decay so you end up having to tt/sell shrapnel during events.
 

minim

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i2870 or MM. ep38 breaks after like 1h and is too high decay so you end up having to tt/sell shrapnel during events.
The EP38 would be just to test efficiency impact. I'm aware of the bad 48% decay/ammo ratio and that it's a PITA during events. It's For the i2870 the ratio is 16% so over a 100k cycle I would have 32000ped more of shrap with ep38 and that is 320ped lost if TTed. The efficiency improvement should in theory increase with about 0.7% or 700ped. That is some of what I want to test with the weapon swap before digging into expensive 2.0 stuff.
 

MeiGDLing

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They all have pro's and cons though i'd say MM is strictly better than the others all other things equal. With 2870 vs night special as you note the decay/ammo ratio isn't pure downside and being able to hold a hc204 is nice but it's pretty close and would depend on the individuals playstyle, plans, budget etc
Weak claw FEN is not worth mentioning here i don't think (assuming you are high enough level to consider these L100 pistols), certainly not at current price point dps is too low plus it's melee unless you have a clear desire to skill up powerfist to go to strong claw and then great claw and even then i'd rather take another melee weapon and just take powerfist codex until maxed on strong claw.
 

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for events I would choose dps over eff so MM
for normal mob grind I would choose high eff with decent dps so NP Aug

If you cant afford both like me go for NP aug with H204 or A105i depending on your budget :D
 

minim

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They all have pro's and cons though i'd say MM is strictly better than the others all other things equal. With 2870 vs night special as you note the decay/ammo ratio isn't pure downside and being able to hold a hc204 is nice but it's pretty close and would depend on the individuals playstyle, plans, budget etc
Weak claw FEN is not worth mentioning here i don't think (assuming you are high enough level to consider these L100 pistols), certainly not at current price point dps is too low plus it's melee unless you have a clear desire to skill up powerfist to go to strong claw and then great claw and even then i'd rather take another melee weapon and just take powerfist codex until maxed on strong claw.

I had the weak claw in mind for testing the efficiency impact and then later have the skills for strong/great. It’s really really low dps so it would get boring quick and not be useful during events or for picking higher MU mobs if they are anything above 1000hp and have Regen :p
 

MeiGDLing

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Can you clarify what you mean by efficiency impact? I think 0.07 * efficiency is a good rough indiciator of the TT return boost you should expect from a weapon, do the same for looter skills and then decide if base is 86/88/90 or something with another paramaeter add them all together and that should help you estimate what your longterm average will be give or take a bit and to get anything more precise is close to impossible (You would need a giant sample and as time went on your looter skill would raise which would skew results)
 

minim

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Can you clarify what you mean by efficiency impact? I think 0.07 * efficiency is a good rough indiciator of the TT return boost you should expect from a weapon, do the same for looter skills and then decide if base is 86/88/90 or something with another paramaeter add them all together and that should help you estimate what your longterm average will be give or take a bit and to get anything more precise is close to impossible (You would need a giant sample and as time went on your looter skill would raise which would skew results)
That is what I want to see. I got a 500k sample now with 65% ish weapons over the last 4 months and I want to do another 500k with 80+% to see if there is a difference. Of course a number of factors could skew the result but it can’t be worse to have a look at the numbers rather than doing nothing about it. Just observing the change in general returns over that size will be interesting if for example the volatility changes.
 

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That is what I want to see. I got a 500k sample now with 65% ish weapons over the last 4 months and I want to do another 500k with 80+% to see if there is a difference. Of course a number of factors could skew the result but it can’t be worse to have a look at the numbers rather than doing nothing about it. Just observing the change in general returns over that size will be interesting if for example the volatility changes.
I dont think you can just go out shoot with different eff weapons and tell the difference in tt. The difference in loot composiotion is easy to detect but for tt return its totally different.

For example i have cycled 500k+ during migration with 89% eff on eomons and got a whooping 92% tt.

While during this mayhem at december cycled over 500k and got 97.9% tt with 89% eff.
 

unufain8

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I dont think you can just go out shoot with different eff weapons and tell the difference in tt. The difference in loot composiotion is easy to detect but for tt return its totally different.

For example i have cycled 500k+ during migration with 89% eff on eomons and got a whooping 92% tt.

While during this mayhem at december cycled over 500k and got 97.9% tt with 89% eff.
I dont know if you felt that also but this mayhem was preety good as returns. not to mention that boxes dropped like crazy.
 

minim

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I dont think you can just go out shoot with different eff weapons and tell the difference in tt. The difference in loot composiotion is easy to detect but for tt return its totally different.

For example i have cycled 500k+ during migration with 89% eff on eomons and got a whooping 92% tt.

While during this mayhem at december cycled over 500k and got 97.9% tt with 89% eff.
It can’t be wrong to try to quantify it else I could just stick with the low efficiency ones. By your numbers it doesn’t seem to matter at all for casual hunters like me but I’d still like to test and fail at it myself :)
 

M Rufen Power

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If only I could find the person who commented on Shrapnel Thresholds being dependant on DPP.

The higher the DPP means you would loot lower the amount of shrapnel, as the examples below.
2.9 = 60% Shrapnel / 3.0 = 50% Shrapnel
3.1 = 40% Shrapnel / 3.2 = 30% Shrapnel
3.3 = 20% Shrapnel / 3.4 = 10% Shrapnel

Based on your main question. "I want to test either a low decaying gun like i2870 / mod merc or a high-efficiency wep like EP-38 Night special Aug."

From what you laid out in your post, I understand you have tested several 1.0 weps with similar stats and now want to move to low decaying 1.0 weapons, moving on to later test a few 2.0 weps.

This is all to find out what setups would produce the highest amount of shrapnel at the highest efficiency level? If I am correct, then great, following so far.

Suppose you want to loot the maximum amount of shrapnel. In that case, I will use a low DPP, high-efficiency setup with an overamped amplifier and use the highest decay attachments possible, i.e. Scope Longreach 4, Sights Bullseye 8's. That's how I would do it and don't bother using any Extender.

If you want to profit in this game, I will go with a gun with a meagre decay rate vs ammo consumption; the closer to imk2, the better and keep shooting without stopping.

Please remember that DPP determines loot composition. Looter & Efficiency determines the amount of TT you'll get back, which for most Loot 2.0 or 2.1 high Eff weps will only give you an added benefit/return of say between 1-2% TT extra returns over a Loot 1.0 with 64.29% efficiency.

If you genuinely want to get higher TT returns, the best course of action would be to use a Loot 1.0 setup, highest DPP (with buffs ofc), not overamped, maxed, with Looter profession above Lv36 as a starting point.
 
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minim

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Yeah basically I want to confirm this. Some I’ve tested and confirmed like the shrapnell generation and this is really easy to spot like you said with amp swaps or just by overkilling. The decay ratio I haven’t done tests on and the ep38 and i2870 is two extremes of this with 48% vs 16% decay ratio and even more unamped. Dpp is similar.

The shrap ratio isn’t as simple as this. It depends a lot on the mob hunted. On mayhem mobs it’s 90% anyways, on spleen mobs it’s high and on ark mobs you get all kinds of other junk.

I’ve read the posts from MA about this and the general consensus but nothing beats confirming it myself if possible :)
 

M Rufen Power

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Whats changes after lvl 36 looter?
Well, for starters, you unlock 2 skills at Lv 30, Butchering and Xenobiology. Lv 36 gives you an extra 2.5% in TT. It is also the median level for the average hunter. So going above that level would mean you are above the average pecking order, which means you can achieve higher returns ahead of the pack.
 

M Rufen Power

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Yeah basically I want to confirm this. Some I’ve tested and confirmed like the shrapnell generation and this is really easy to spot like you said with amp swaps or just by overkilling. The decay ratio I haven’t done tests on and the ep38 and i2870 is two extremes of this with 48% vs 16% decay ratio and even more unamped. Dpp is similar.

The shrap ratio isn’t as simple as this. It depends a lot on the mob hunted. On mayhem mobs it’s 90% anyways, on spleen mobs it’s high and on ark mobs you get all kinds of other junk.

I’ve read the posts from MA about this and the general consensus but nothing beats confirming it myself if possible :)
I can tell you I loot less shrapnel using a setup with a gun having very little decay from my own tests. How much by? It's hard to say when based on DPP formulae. But from tests I've done using Tier 10 Economy enhancers, it's at best 30% less shrapnel over the item's base stats. How can I prove it? I can loot more exotic loot vs shrapnel by the same amount. Again, this boils down to DPP, and I believe shrapnel's connected to DPP, so perhaps Efficiency has more of an effect on, say, Shrapnel Bonus drops vs normal Lootpool from a said mob. But that's my 2 pecs.
 
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Well, for starters, you unlock 2 skills at Lv 30, Butchering and Xenobiology. Lv 36 gives you an extra 2.5% in TT. It is also the median level for the average hunter. So going above that level would mean you are above the average pecking order, which means you can achieve higher returns ahead of the pack.
Do you have any source for that statement? To me it seems unreasonable that lvl 0-100 looter should affect 7% tt returns. What happens if you are lvl 200 looter? Do you get 14% tt returns? Or lvl 300?
 

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Do you have any source for that statement? To me it seems unreasonable that lvl 0-100 looter should affect 7% tt returns. What happens if you are lvl 200 looter? Do you get 14% tt returns? Or lvl 300?
no it pretty much stops at level 100 from what ive heard from a few uber friends.

obvously there been to be more cycled but from the results ive seen around (3mill cycled) it capped out at level 100
 

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Do you have any source for that statement? To me it seems unreasonable that lvl 0-100 looter should affect 7% tt returns. What happens if you are lvl 200 looter? Do you get 14% tt returns? Or lvl 300?
I think MA actually stated this a while back, can't bother looking it up. But I would assume when reaching looter lvl 100, you're maxed and anything above is more or less "useless"

Edit: or am I just mixing up looter with efficiency here? i might. Anyway.
 

Baldurn

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I think MA actually stated this a while back, can't bother looking it up. But I would assume when reaching looter lvl 100, you're maxed and anything above is more or less "useless"

Edit: or am I just mixing up looter with efficiency here? i might. Anyway.
According to Entropiawiki that is not confirmed by MA.
 

M Rufen Power

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Do you have any source for that statement? To me it seems unreasonable that lvl 0-100 looter should affect 7% tt returns. What happens if you are lvl 200 looter? Do you get 14% tt returns? Or lvl 300?
Here is a spreadsheet > Eff / Looter Spreadsheet. Eff rating + Looter level correlations. I painstakingly made it myself.
no it pretty much stops at level 100 from what ive heard from a few uber friends.

obvously there been to be more cycled but from the results ive seen around (3mill cycled) it capped out at level 100
What happens when 2 ubers over lv 100 hunt the same mob? How will MA decide who gets the better return first, the 1 at a higher level < right?
I think MA actually stated this a while back, can't bother looking it up. But I would assume when reaching looter lvl 100, you're maxed and anything above is more or less "useless"

Edit: or am I just mixing up looter with efficiency here? i might. Anyway.
I've seen people comment they are on Looter LVL 115-125 and doing better than ever TT on mob outside of events.
According to Entropiawiki that is not confirmed by MA.
Afaik, MA has never confirmed that Looter is capped; they have confirmed Efficiency was capped.

A 90% Eff weapon can produce a 6.30% TT above 91% = 97.30% TT, plus Lv 100 Looter = 7% "may" = 104.30% TT and if u did 90% that's 103.30% TT.
 
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Baldurn

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Here is a spreadsheet > Eff / Looter Spreadsheet. Eff rating + Looter level correlations. I painstakingly made it myself.

What happens when 2 ubers over lv 100 hunt the same mob? How will MA decide who gets the better return first, the 1 at a higher level < right?

I've seen people comment they are on Looter LVL 115-125 and doing better than ever TT on mob outside of events.

Afaik, MA has never confirmed that Looter is capped; they have confirmed Efficiency was capped.
Yes, but what is the source of that data in your spreadsheet? How can you verify that it is true? I know how to make charts myself in excel but the veracity of the data is important.
 

M Rufen Power

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Yes, but what is the source of that data in your spreadsheet? How can you verify that it is true? I know how to make charts myself in excel but the veracity of the data is important.
As players/hunters, we are supposed to test everything, and I compiled data from multiple sources and my own. As an example, with that knowledge, I was able to verify that overkill for mobs under, say, 300 hp can negatively affect your returns by around 2%. Would you also like for MA to disclose this information to the public, or will you test it out multiple times to confirm it yourself? Will you sheepishly trust MA when they say all decay gets returned no matter the amount of overkill? People need to realise there is no spoon to be fed with, or you won't get ahead if there is such a spoon. My last 2 pecs.
 

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Here is a spreadsheet > Eff / Looter Spreadsheet. Eff rating + Looter level correlations. I painstakingly made it myself.
I am trying to understand the meaning of your spreadsheet when it comes to looter skill level to eff correlation. Are you basically saying as your looter skill grows efficiency becomes less necessary, to reach that max 7%? And if this is true, and I have heard this before from few different sources. Anyone looter level 100 willing to test this out with a low eff weapon for a while? We really need to figure out how much looter actually replaces! :cool:
 
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Baldurn

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As players/hunters, we are supposed to test everything, and I compiled data from multiple sources and my own. As an example, with that knowledge, I was able to verify that overkill for mobs under, say, 300 hp can negatively affect your returns by around 2%. Would you also like for MA to disclose this information to the public, or will you test it out multiple times to confirm it yourself? Will you sheepishly trust MA when they say all decay gets returned no matter the amount of overkill? People need to realise there is no spoon to be fed with, or you won't get ahead if there is such a spoon. My last 2 pecs.

But your spreadsheet do not seem to be based on any data, or at least there is no link to it. It is simply the sum of previous values with an addition of a, what I believe, to be a subjective and arbitrary number by you. Why not have that number 10 or 1000 times higher? What makes you certain that 100 looter gives 7% tt return? I wonder what source you have for this claim, is it based on empirical data observed in your hunts or verified somewhere else? You reference people commenting their TT return in a previous post in this thread. Am I to believe that your data is based on rumours from other players? I am not saying you are wrong, I do not know what is correct, but I want to know the veracity of your claims since now it looks very much made up.
 

M Rufen Power

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But your spreadsheet do not seem to be based on any data, or at least there is no link to it. It is simply the sum of previous values with an addition of a, what I believe, to be a subjective and arbitrary number by you. Why not have that number 10 or 1000 times higher? What makes you certain that 100 looter gives 7% tt return? I wonder what source you have for this claim, is it based on empirical data observed in your hunts or verified somewhere else? You reference people commenting their TT return in a previous post in this thread. Am I to believe that your data is based on rumours from other players? I am not saying you are wrong, I do not know what is correct, but I want to know the veracity of your claims since now it looks very much made up.
I am feeling very generous this evening. > Looter UNCAPPED. Efficiency CAPPED.
This thread is very educational, have a good read > list-of-official-statments-pertaining-to-loot-post-2
 
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M Rufen Power

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I am trying to understand the meaning of your spreadsheet when it comes to looter skill level to eff correlation. Are you basically saying as your looter skill grows efficiency becomes less necessary, to reach that max 7%? And if this is true, and I have heard this before from few different sources. Anyone looter level 100 willing to test this out with a low eff weapon for a while? We really need to figure out how much looter actually replaces! :cool:
The maximum efficiency that could affect TT returns was set at 7%, meaning people could achieve a 98-100% TT return with very high-efficiency setups.
However, efficiency was relegated once MA introduced Looter professions, so now, if you skilled up your Looter profession, it can outperform efficiency.
The spreadsheet is very simple to understand, find your efficiency rating, and find the corresponding looter level required to reach 7% on the same row.
The trick here is, once you pass your required Looter Lv, for every level higher, you get an extra 0.07% (x1.0007) TT out of the loot pool per kill for free, lol.

Eff / Looter Spreadsheet.
 
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