What is an exploit in Entropia?

[Deemer]

How can we understand what an exploit is in a game that has no clear outlines?
What is an exploit in Entropia?

 

[~ Cirrus ~]

I'd say anything that is not allowed and costs MA money could be considered an exploit.
If it costs others players' money, then it's OK..

 

[San]

It is pretty clear if one actually reads the fine print.

Players discussing their personal views on what constitutes exploits (e.g. the perennial discussion pvpers vs those who seek ways to evade them) are another matter and can admittedly contribute to confusion. None of that is authoritative.

 

[mastermesh]

Every feature is an exploit if 75 support tickets are sent in about it

 

[Svarog]

Something that you've learned how to do and I've not. If I learned it too, it's a feature

 

[Deemer]

In the picture you can see that my BLP hit is level 51, but the latest statistics of crit / hit abilities are 7.1, maybe it takes statistics from the laser professions.
Another issue is that this weapon is a bit buggy because it shows ammunition and attacks per minute with opposite. Ie it takes 120 ammo and is 100 attacks per minute, not as per its info.
In other words, if I use this buggy weapon without reporting this bug and take advantage while the MA fixes it, will it make me an exploiter... maybe I didn't pay attention, blindly believing what the game gives me.

This made me make the topic this way without specifics, although I expected a similar result from it. Our activity at all is to fight the game and the players. However, subjectivity in Themis 'decisions is illogical, not the players'. Obviously, there are groups defending their interest, and MA is Themis with wide-open eyes, staring at the tilting scales... none of the answers surprised me, but I was hoping for one. However, thank you for participating in the topic.

If there is a bug that has been around for years, and the MA does not fix it... it is more logical that it is not a bug... i.e, it is not a exploit, right...


PP.
An interesting fact is that 3-4 minutes after I did this topic, my interact acquired a strange behavior... but is not for the first time, such as locking the camera on the Z axis... sinking my feet into the ground for a few seconds (root)... others.
Rather, it is encouraging that there is invisible activity.

 

[miathan]

In the picture you can see that my BLP hit is level 51, but the latest statistics of crit / hit abilities are 7.1

Hit ability for non-sib is: 4 + 0.06 * hitLevel. Doesn't look off to me?

entropiawiki: hit ability

www.entropiawiki.com

 

[wizz]

It is pretty clear if one actually reads the fine print.

Players discussing their personal views on what constitutes exploits (e.g. the perennial discussion pvpers vs those who seek ways to evade them) are another matter and can admittedly contribute to confusion. None of that is authoritative.

Well, maybe copy and paste the fine print then instead of just referring to them?
That way you might reduce the personal discussion to avoid more confusion.

 

[Deemer]

Hit ability for non-sib is: 4 + 0.06 * hitLevel. Doesn't look off to me?

entropiawiki: hit ability

www.entropiawiki.com

Don't looking for specifics.
Thanks.

 

[San]

Well, maybe copy and paste the fine print then instead of just referring to them?
That way you might reduce the personal discussion to avoid more confusion.

Pardon me? This is like asking someone to always copy and paste entire websites instead of linking to them. Besides, if you know people, you know that these discussions won't go away. The less they know, the stronger their opinions. Often they know that though, at least intuitively, and refuse to accept information which could weaken their positions. (Now this could go down a deep rabbit hole of psychology but we don't want to blow things out of context.)

We all know where to find the TOS anyway. It doesn't cover each and every specific case (it can't because not all can be known at the time of writing), but is quite clear about certain kinds of opportunism. Neither does this keep people from trying. The only point of responding is telling someone who asked that the information exists. Or expose someone who only pretends to ask as falling into the aforementioned category. I am making no assumptions about OP, these are just the available semantic options.

 

[wizz]

Pardon me? This is like asking someone to always copy and paste entire websites instead of linking to them. Besides, if you know people, you know that these discussions won't go away. The less they know, the stronger their opinions. Often they know that though, at least intuitively, and refuse to accept information which could weaken their positions. (Now this could go down a deep rabbit hole of psychology but we don't want to blow things out of context.)

We all know where to find the TOS anyway. It doesn't cover each and every specific case (it can't because not all can be known at the time of writing), but is quite clear about certain kinds of opportunism. Neither does this keep people from trying. The only point of responding is telling someone who asked that the information exists. Or expose someone who only pretends to ask as falling into the aforementioned category. I am making no assumptions about OP, these are just the available semantic options.

So, you refer to something appearantly many don't know, but for you is very clear, but you don't want to tell what it is.

Ok, great reaction!

 

[BruuD]

How can we understand what an exploit is in a game that has no clear outlines?
What is an exploit in Entropia?

It's an exploit when you use unintended game behaviour to gain an advantage.

Your Yog pet states it increases reload on tools by x% and you manage to use it to increase reload on your weapon by x%? Unintended behaviour, you gain an advantage, exploit.
You manage to pause the clock in a Mayhem instance and thereby increase your time limit? Unintended behaviour, you gain an advantage, exploit.
You have a weapon that states it does 100 attacks/min, but it really only does 10 attacks/min? It's unintended behaviour, but you don't gain an advantage, so no exploit.

All unintended behaviour is a bug, but a bug is not an exploit until you use it to gain an advantage that you wouldn't get without the bug.

I think 99% of the time it's pretty clear when behaviour is unintented. Those 1% edge cases will probably not give you such an advantage that is bother anyone.

 

[San]

So, you refer to something appearantly many don't know, but for you is very clear, but you don't want to tell what it is.

Ok, great reaction!

The TOS? I don't quite understand what you mean otherwise. Please don't take it personal if I appear a little acerbic but the whole topic is annoying and a party killer. We're still talking about a game.

I don't know them very well at all, so far managed to avoid clashes by applying common sense. But there is no universally accepted standard of what that even means. I also hate harping on rules, even more how they're pushed into my face at every login (since you can't avoid the client loader anymore under Win 10) but find it useful to at least know where to look for them. If someone was honestly confused about that or some detail in them, and support isn't the first address they choose for whatever reason, then we should help of course, but experience in this community tells that ever so often there are ulterior motives.

 

[Svako]

Why is then AOE dmg tanking with vehicles considered exploit? Vehicles have armor stats, HP(structural integrity) and decay....
MA should provide at least reason why they consider this to be an exploit...

Definition of exploit: make use of a broken game mechanic/bug in a way considered unfair or underhand

Let's use some ideal scenario, with constant damage (for better calculating):
Damage of the mob: 150 (100% impact)
Armor protection vs Impact: 50
Vehicle protection vs Impact: 50

Vehicle fight:
If I fight alone, I take 150 dmg split the following way: my armor absorb 50 dmg and decays accordingly, I take 100 dmg
If I put one vehicle down, I take 150 dmg split the following way: my armor absorb 50 dmg and decays accordingly, my vehicle absorb 50 dmg and decays accordingly, I take 50 dmg
If I put two vehicles down, I take 150 dmg split the following way: my armor absorb 50 dmg and decays accordingly, my vehicles absorb 50 dmg each and both decays accordingly, I take 0 dmg (deflected)

Group fight (with same geared players):
If I have one other player with me, we take 150 dmg split following way: my armor absorb 50 dmg and decays accordingly, second players armor absorb 50 dmg and decays accordingly, we take 50 dmg split equally, so 25 dmg each
If I have two other player with me, we take 150 dmg split following way: my armor absorb 50 dmg and decays accordingly, second players armor absorb 50 dmg and decays accordingly, third players armor absorb 50 dmg and decays accordingly and we take we take 0 dmg split equally, so 0 dmg each

Conclusion: this is a valid strategy/game mechanic that is not broken or should be considered as an exploit because:
1. decay wise, it's the same if I'm with players, or with vehicles --> no harm to MA or other players --> no unfair advantage for me
2. only gain for me is the ability to do it alone, instead of finding group of people, but for extra cost of decay on my side --> no harm to MA or other players --> no unfair advantage for me

Please correct me if I'm wrong in the logic

 

[BruuD]

Only reason I can think of @Svako is that this way you can avoid receiving the full AOE damage as player, thereby enabling you to take on a mob that you otherwise cannot or at least not without additional armor/healing. So in that respect it would be an unfair advantage.

I'm not saying that I agree with that reasoning, just trying to see it from their perspective.

 

[INTERNUT]

Someone told me you could once ping a slow-running mining bot to get it to follow you and then you could lure it over a cliff at a certain location. Unequipping the gun made it no longer think you were a target, and it would just carry on mining when it hit the bottom of the cliff. You could then scan it with a scanner almost forever. I haven't tried this myself...

 

[wizz]

The TOS? I don't quite understand what you mean otherwise. Please don't take it personal if I appear a little acerbic but the whole topic is annoying and a party killer. We're still talking about a game.

I don't know them very well at all, so far managed to avoid clashes by applying common sense. But there is no universally accepted standard of what that even means. I also hate harping on rules, even more how they're pushed into my face at every login (since you can't avoid the client loader anymore under Win 10) but find it useful to at least know where to look for them. If someone was honestly confused about that or some detail in them, and support isn't the first address they choose for whatever reason, then we should help of course, but experience in this community tells that ever so often there are ulterior motives.

well, it's very simple.
Someone asks a question.
Your reaction is that the answer is obvious and is clearly stated somewhere.
All I say is, that for many it's not that obvious as it is for you and ask you to show us the obvious part to enlighten us all.

TBH I dont think it's obvious at all.
When is it an exploit (bugs) and when is it a feature?

This entire game is bugged as hell. Sometimes it turns out to be a feature. And sometimes it's a bug.
Many bugs and exploits are not treated by MA as exploits and they keep allowing it. So, I can totally understand the OP question.

 

[FireFist]

How can we understand what an exploit is in a game that has no clear outlines?
What is an exploit in Entropia?

An exploit is something in game that you do and deep down your like "i shouldnt be doing this"

for example sitting on a tree sweating a big byrd for hours that cant hit you


As far as ur gun example ur skill is 47.8/100 and 51.1/100 meaning ur not maxed on the gun. Which is why the stats below show you that you are not maxed...Just cuz ur lvl out weighs the dmg of this specific gun. the gun stats them selves are set for being lvl 100 in hit and dmg for BLP.

 

[wizz]

An exploit is something in game that you do and deep down your like "i shouldnt be doing this"

for example sitting on a tree sweating a big byrd for hours that cant hit you

Well, I could consider that smart.
But maybe that is because when I started playing entropia, what you describe was actually a feature.
There was this farm with a fence where we used to trap atrox to sweat it there.
But then the feature became an exploit.

So again, I totally understand OP's question.

 

[FireFist]

Well, I could consider that smart.
But maybe that is because when I started playing entropia, what you describe was actually a feature.
There was this farm with a fence where we used to trap atrox to sweat it there.
But then the feature became an exploit.

So again, I totally understand OP's question.

oh that was before what suggested to do in game to sweat atrox? i guess that would draw confusion i agree especially if ur a long time player/sweater

 

[San]

well, it's very simple.
Someone asks a question.
Your reaction is that the answer is obvious and is clearly stated somewhere.
All I say is, that for many it's not that obvious as it is for you and ask you to show us the obvious part to enlighten us all.

TBH I dont think it's obvious at all.
When is it an exploit (bugs) and when is it a feature?

This entire game is bugged as hell. Sometimes it turns out to be a feature. And sometimes it's a bug.
Many bugs and exploits are not treated by MA as exploits and they keep allowing it. So, I can totally understand the OP question.

I'm not sure how to answer that knowing that many won't see the point. There is little room for doubt to those with a moral compass and used to considering the consequences of their actions in a wider context than immediate personal profit. The wording in the TOS actually does express that.

Well, I could consider that smart.
But maybe that is because when I started playing entropia, what you describe was actually a feature.
There was this farm with a fence where we used to trap atrox to sweat it there.
But then the feature became an exploit.

You say this as if it had a plaque showing "This is a feature" stuck right onto it. Did some official say something along these lines? Any other evidence?

Another 'feature' occurred just recently and got dealt with: https://cyreneforum.com/threads/bud-exploit.8474/

Is there someone who wants to claim these people didn't know what they were doing? The way this world is going, I might slowly soften up to the idea of believing it. Still...

 

[Kain Dewey Fall]

It is possible to turn yourself invisible. An exploit is doing that and then going into PVP.

I've seen games talk about that if you do your keys in a specific manner that it causes a tactical/bandwidth advantage over other players and that this is considered an exploit, would that that would be a special move available to everyone but for some reason the game companies don't see it that way.

I think the Yog Pet might still be an exploit, I don't know though.

There is 3 examples, I guess... Technically 2 or 1.

There is a exploit at Cyrenes The HUB, an individual can enter The Hub without having to pay to get in and they still get killpoints/tokens and other players won't get killpoints/token when they kill that individual. Kind of weird, from personal experience, it only does it for 1 individual in the entire instance and it is upon entry kind of like a daily thing instead of interchanging/randomized per se. I guess not much of an exploit when you don't have a choice unless you know and keep using it.

I don't know if it was fixed or not, I thought it was kind of weird that Cyrene was promoting The HUB in this last VU without identifying that this exploit was been identified and fixed...

There is probably a few more.

 

[Deemer]

I did not want the topic to be about specific exploits but about their understanding, so I gave a simple example with the gun. Rather, the topic goes to the exploit guide...

Personally, I have doubts about a certain case and that is why I have made a report. After the answer I will know the position of the MA on a particular case. But that made me wonder what exactly an exploit is, after everyone tries to fuck up the system to reduce their losses.

 

[Kain Dewey Fall]

I did not want the topic to be about specific exploits but about their understanding, so I gave a simple example with the gun. Rather, the topic goes to the exploit guide...

Personally, I have doubts about a certain case and that is why I have made a report. After the answer I will know the position of the MA on a particular case. But that made me wonder what exactly an exploit is, after everyone tries to fuck up the system to reduce their losses.

Well, I am not sure what you are saying, I looked back and saw the comment about the gun. If that gun is doing different than what the info says, that is a error on MAs side and you should report it. As to feasible usability of the gun. That was meant to be a what it says, a toy, a temporary one at that, definitely not a weapon.

As for what you may be identifying as exploits.
Here is a little advice,
Armor plates,
If your armor has 20 defense and your armor plates add 20 defense, any hits that you take ranging from 20-40dmg will all decay the same amount from your plates. So if you are going to wear plates, you want to make sure that the mob does more than the defense+plates or less than the defense.
It may be that it decays the same amount no matter what so you should make sure the mob does more damage than defense+plates on armor and plates. I don't remember exactly, but I was studying decay algorithms and discovered that. information.

Another idea is the Frosty SnowBalls, they used to cause 50% deceleration for 5 seconds... God forbid if anyone knows, but someone made a complaint about how there was a player throwing Frosty Snowballs at players and that it was causing players to have their time wasted and have time taken away from gaining yield from hunting on mobs because it slowed them down... The Frosty Snowballs still say that they can be used for deceleration, but MA removed the feature from the Frosty Snowballs because of that complaint.
*Bring back our deceleration Frosty SnowBalls* I spent quite a bid of PED collecting those... Was so upset when they removed the feature.

It was just weird that the Toy Snowballguns had a Full TT of 1ped but they were handed out to players with a 0.10/1.00ped TT.
I had no idea the shoot/ammo numbers were faulty/opposite from what it actually says...

I'm not sure what to say about the range, hit, and crit because that is clearly a Level requirement 100 weapon of which means it is probably a SIB Never weapon and those numbers are probably pretty accurate.

 

[Deemer]

Well, I am not sure what you are saying, I looked back and saw the comment about the gun. If that gun is doing different than what the info says, that is a error on MAs side and you should report it. As to feasible usability of the gun. That was meant to be a what it says, a toy, a temporary one at that, definitely not a weapon.

As for what you may be identifying as exploits.
Here is a little advice,
Armor plates,
If your armor has 20 defense and your armor plates add 20 defense, any hits that you take ranging from 20-40dmg will all decay the same amount from your plates. So if you are going to wear plates, you want to make sure that the mob does more than the defense+plates or less than the defense.
It may be that it decays the same amount no matter what so you should make sure the mob does more damage than defense+plates on armor and plates. I don't remember exactly, but I was studying decay algorithms and discovered that. information.

Another idea is the Frosty SnowBalls, they used to cause 50% deceleration for 5 seconds... God forbid if anyone knows, but someone made a complaint about how there was a player throwing Frosty Snowballs at players and that it was causing players to have their time wasted and have time taken away from gaining yield from hunting on mobs because it slowed them down... The Frosty Snowballs still say that they can be used for deceleration, but MA removed the feature from the Frosty Snowballs because of that complaint.
*Bring back our deceleration Frosty SnowBalls* I spent quite a bid of PED collecting those... Was so upset when they removed the feature.

It was just weird that the Toy Snowballguns had a Full TT of 1ped but they were handed out to players with a 0.10/1.00ped TT.
I had no idea the shoot/ammo numbers were faulty/opposite from what it actually says...

I'm not sure what to say about the range, hit, and crit because that is clearly a Level requirement 100 weapon of which means it is probably a SIB Never weapon and those numbers are probably pretty accurate.

This is just an example of how information from something can be misleading and at the same time false, so I gave this gun as an example ... it is just a very appropriate example. I think every player over two days ingame knows what SIB and Non-SIB are, so I didn't think there could be this kind of comments... it's just a very good example that I decided to give because of the first few comments.

 

[Ferial]

In the picture you can see that my BLP hit is level 51, but the latest statistics of crit / hit abilities are 7.1, maybe it takes statistics from the laser professions.
Another issue is that this weapon is a bit buggy because it shows ammunition and attacks per minute with opposite. Ie it takes 120 ammo and is 100 attacks per minute, not as per its info.
In other words, if I use this buggy weapon without reporting this bug and take advantage while the MA fixes it, will it make me an exploiter... maybe I didn't pay attention, blindly believing what the game gives me.

It has been pointed out to you, previously in this thread, that 51 hit level = 7.1 hit and crit ability for non-sib (i would guess you were somewhere around 51.05 when this screenshot was taken?) so definitely no exploit there

As for the display bug with ammo burn / apm: since the way that its wrong doesnt give you any kind of advantage, in fact the gun is worse than what the info says, using it would not be considered an exploit.

If the gun was instead better than the info said and you made this post (admitting to your knowledge of the bug) and still kept using it, MA could have a good case for banning you for exploiting, if they wanted to.

That being said info display errors are common when new items are added, and i have yet to learn about a situation where someone has been banned for using those items.

As for what constitutes an exploit, i think you have to use your best judgement for what not to do in this game. If you come across anything questionable, its likely better to not do it, and report it to support so that MA can make the call on what to do with it.

 

[Deemer]

It has been pointed out to you, previously in this thread, that 51 hit level = 7.1 hit and crit ability for non-sib (i would guess you were somewhere around 51.05 when this screenshot was taken?) so definitely no exploit there

As for the display bug with ammo burn / apm: since the way that its wrong doesnt give you any kind of advantage, in fact the gun is worse than what the info says, using it would not be considered an exploit.

If the gun was instead better than the info said and you made this post (admitting to your knowledge of the bug) and still kept using it, MA could have a good case for banning you for exploiting, if they wanted to.

That being said info display errors are common when new items are added, and i have yet to learn about a situation where someone has been banned for using those items.

As for what constitutes an exploit, i think you have to use your best judgement for what not to do in this game. If you come across anything questionable, its likely better to not do it, and report it to support so that MA can make the call on what to do with it.

Regarding the example, after the next similar comment I will probably remove it, because there seems to be confusion, and its purpose was just the opposite... to give direction to the topic.

Regarding the operation in your example, it is one-way only to the system, and I think that the trust should be two-way.

For me, exploit is if you find a way to convert universal ammos into shrapnel(this is example). Examples such as sweating above I do not think is exploits, but the player knowledge... even now there is a mob that are sweating but they don't do DMG to sweaters. However, this is exactly what I did the topic for, I am interested to see a different opinion, because I also think that the MA makes decisions on these cases according to the mood of the majority or the fat wallets, not because they are exactly exploits.

 

[Ferial]

it is one-way only to the system, and I think that the trust should be two-way.

Per definition an exploit is to make use of (a situation) in a way considered unfair or underhand. If you think that you are being treated unfairly by the system because the information provided by the system is incorrect, that is MA exploiting you, not you exploiting the system. As such your example is not applicable.

Being able to sweat an attacking creature without taking damage is getting an unfair advantage, as it is unintended behavior. If on the other hand you were sweating a creature that does not attack at all, that would be "player knowledge".

 

[FireFist]

Regarding the example, after the next similar comment I will probably remove it, because there seems to be confusion, and its purpose was just the opposite... to give direction to the topic.

Regarding the operation in your example, it is one-way only to the system, and I think that the trust should be two-way.

For me, exploit is if you find a way to convert universal ammos into shrapnel(this is example). Examples such as sweating above I do not think is exploits, but the player knowledge... even now there is a mob that are sweating but they don't do DMG to sweaters. However, this is exactly what I did the topic for, I am interested to see a different opinion, because I also think that the MA makes decisions on these cases according to the mood of the majority or the fat wallets, not because they are exactly exploits.

Sweating a mob that does damage and you find a way to not take damage to sweat the same mob is an exploit because you've gained an unfair advantage against the game. I havent done this but, assuming you can do this which ive seen screenshots of ppl doing this would mean you could also, stand in same position and kill the mob without ever taking damage which again is an exploit...Anytime you gain an unfair advantage its now an exploit... you may have a different perception in this but, if the creature is designed to attack you and you stop it from attacking you because of a certain spot in game then thats an exploit.

And you're right about the example if someone somehow found a way to convert Unlimited ammo into shrapnel and it was part of the games design then yes that would be an exploit...just as if somehow you found a way to drive your Quad without oil...or if you found a way to go into space without a thruster on ur quad...

I feel this isnt even a topic that needs discussed...It's almost like Phishing imo...Like trying to know what is considered an "exploit" which the definition itself is pretty clear but, since they didnt specifically say oh you cant sit in a tree to sweat a creature while you dont take damage then its not an exploit... If you feel something is a potential exploit report it and go off what MA tells you in response and dont do it til given approval then screenshot it... but, I feel thats not necessary since again its pretty self explanatory imo. Remember its part of ToS to report anything that could be considered a bug, exploit, etc...

 

[Deemer]

Sweating a mob that does damage and you find a way to not take damage to sweat the same mob is an exploit because you've gained an unfair advantage against the game. I havent done this but, assuming you can do this which ive seen screenshots of ppl doing this would mean you could also, stand in same position and kill the mob without ever taking damage which again is an exploit...Anytime you gain an unfair advantage its now an exploit... you may have a different perception in this but, if the creature is designed to attack you and you stop it from attacking you because of a certain spot in game then thats an exploit.

And you're right about the example if someone somehow found a way to convert Unlimited ammo into shrapnel and it was part of the games design then yes that would be an exploit...just as if somehow you found a way to drive your Quad without oil...or if you found a way to go into space without a thruster on ur quad...

I feel this isnt even a topic that needs discussed...It's almost like Phishing imo...Like trying to know what is considered an "exploit" which the definition itself is pretty clear but, since they didnt specifically say oh you cant sit in a tree to sweat a creature while you dont take damage then its not an exploit... If you feel something is a potential exploit report it and go off what MA tells you in response and dont do it til given approval then screenshot it... but, I feel thats not necessary since again its pretty self explanatory imo. Remember its part of ToS to report anything that could be considered a bug, exploit, etc...

That's right the topic is to see different opinions. Not the information is bad but the choice you make. Not only for me but for others, it might be good to find your way around, even for you without realizing it.