What is wrong with your loot algorithm!

Fanan

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Hello.


I play your game now for more than six years.
Since January of 2013 major changes happened to your loot algorithm and it was never like before. You called it modified loot, well since then the loot was total crap and most important, very very boring! Don't know what is your plan but I can tell you that this isn't working for the players! For you maybe but only on a short term I'm sure.
Nowadays it very easy to go hunting and come back with a total TT in loot below the ammo spend. Last night for example from 300 ped with LC-60 L + XR70 I came back with 180ped in loot! Just for the ammo it was 120ped lost, not taking in account the weapon decay and amplifier decay. These kind of runs became so regular that it freak me out. Please don't tell me that I made it to level 72 and 200 HPs to not even get the ammo back!


Hunting: The new limiters (cap) introduced to the low HP mobs don't give any hope to the low level of hunters/depositors. What is the hope for players starting now if only huge HP mobs can give them a ok HOF? Why would they even start to play? At least double that cap! The fact that you don't even get the ammo back is psychologically demoralizing! How can I spent tones of money during 6 years to level up to 70 on hunting (commando) if I can't even bring the ammo back? This is very common to happen nowadays! Very sad!


Mining: Even if you want to play for the HOF it's almost impossible now. I used to have a lot of fun with level 2/3 on FOMA for example. Now at FOMA it's not fun even with a level 8 or higher amp. You turned mining boring and very predictable! Unamped mining should be that way, boring and predictable but not the amped mining! Players deposit tons of money, they just want to have fun and see a HOF time to time but your algorithm don't give any HOF and they loss at same speed or even faster than before!


Crafting: How can you give 20 followed near successes in full quantity? How can I have only one success in 100 clicks (condition)? Is this that you call a game? If I told this to anyone, they would call your "game" a big scam! This is not fun anymore! I craft for successes, if it's to get near successes I prefer to just TT the oils/wools! Stop the huge amount of near successes it's pathetic! And again like in hunt, rise the limiters to the double of what they are now. Is unbelievable that a 2000 clicks run can't even produce a little global!




The actual algorithm maybe could work with 3 times the players that exist actually but that isn't the case. Wish you could at least hear me, this, if you want to prosper for another 10 years.




Best regards,
Fanan

(This was sent to the support case.)
 

dobrinocb

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Agree on all you say +rep :broke:

Its a game that payout less than casino do :D ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Even in poker i have minimum 50% chance to win or loose here is ZERO :D
 

ktpsmf

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Hello.


I play your game now for more than six years.
Since January of 2013 major changes happened to your loot algorithm and it was never like before. You called it modified loot, well since then the loot was total crap and most important, very very boring! Don't know what is your plan but I can tell you that this isn't working for the players! For you maybe but only on a short term I'm sure.
Nowadays it very easy to go hunting and come back with a total TT in loot below the ammo spend. Last night for example from 300 ped with LC-60 L + XR70 I came back with 180ped in loot! Just for the ammo it was 120ped lost, not taking in account the weapon decay and amplifier decay. These kind of runs became so regular that it freak me out. Please don't tell me that I made it to level 72 and 200 HPs to not even get the ammo back!


Hunting: The new limiters (cap) introduced to the low HP mobs don't give any hope to the low level of hunters/depositors. What is the hope for players starting now if only huge HP mobs can give them a ok HOF? Why would they even start to play? At least double that cap! The fact that you don't even get the ammo back is psychologically demoralizing! How can I spent tones of money during 6 years to level up to 70 on hunting (commando) if I can't even bring the ammo back? This is very common to happen nowadays! Very sad!


Mining: Even if you want to play for the HOF it's almost impossible now. I used to have a lot of fun with level 2/3 on FOMA for example. Now at FOMA it's not fun even with a level 8 or higher amp. You turned mining boring and very predictable! Unamped mining should be that way, boring and predictable but not the amped mining! Players deposit tons of money, they just want to have fun and see a HOF time to time but your algorithm don't give any HOF and they loss at same speed or even faster than before!


Crafting: How can you give 20 followed near successes in full quantity? How can I have only one success in 100 clicks (condition)? Is this that you call a game? If I told this to anyone, they would call your "game" a big scam! This is not fun anymore! I craft for successes, if it's to get near successes I prefer to just TT the oils/wools! Stop the huge amount of near successes it's pathetic! And again like in hunt, rise the limiters to the double of what they are now. Is unbelievable that a 2000 clicks run can't even produce a little global!




The actual algorithm maybe could work with 3 times the players that exist actually but that isn't the case. Wish you could at least hear me, this, if you want to prosper for another 10 years.




Best regards,
Fanan

(This was sent to the support case.)
Ma should find all cheaters that are stealing from loot pool and will be all ok.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...eads-(found-300k-lost-peds)&highlight=secrets
 
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Last night for example from 300 ped with LC-60 L + XR70 I came back with 180ped in loot!
..hmm.. maybe its wrong to hope for profit in 909 shoots?
 

FallenAngel

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Perhaps it's not players that are stealing from the loot pool... just a thought.
i take it you are hinting regarding a certain PP who chose to have all their mobs have at least double the attack rate of comparative mobs on calypso therefore making the cost (cost not returns!) to hunt twice that of calypso on like for like mobs?
the same PP that is selling bound armour at markup to players thereby destroying a core concept of the game, that the players decide the MU of ordinary items, to pocket a few ped for themselves.

or wasnt that what you meant? :p
 

Wed

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I just did 700 ped on spiders and came back with 73 ped after repairs :mad:
 

das

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I just did 700 ped on spiders and came back with 73 ped after repairs :mad:
Good to hear it can get worse, atleast I had 70% return after mu's :yay:
 

Neil Stockton

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i take it you are hinting regarding a certain PP who chose to have all their mobs have at least double the attack rate of comparative mobs on calypso therefore making the cost (cost not returns!) to hunt twice that of calypso on like for like mobs?
the same PP that is selling bound armour at markup to players thereby destroying a core concept of the game, that the players decide the MU of ordinary items, to pocket a few ped for themselves.

or wasnt that what you meant? :p
No that wouldn't affect TT returns of players on calypso.
 

HardWrath

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If what you are doing isn't working.... Change what you are doing.

When you see returns like that, do something different.

I spent the better part of yesterday and the night before hunting small leviathan.

I started around 100 DPS but loot returns were awfull, moreover, no one was getting an abundance of Leviathan globals. Because I wanted to stick with them to make progress on my iron mission, I changed my DPS. I looted a LC-100 (L) and used that until it broke. Obviously going from 100 DPS to the LC-100 is a major change in DPS and I was killing a lot less Leviathan per hour than I was before but my average amount of globals and good loot per hour remained roughly constant. The returns were still a loss but now were manageable.

After the LC-100 broke I bought a LC-150 (L) and used that since the LC-100 was just too tedious for me. I broke that and then bought a second one. The entire time the amount of globals for me over X amount of time remained roughly constant. Clearly my avatar is in a bad return cycle but I knew that from the start.

After I had my fill of Leviathan, I stopped hunting for about an hour, did some things in-game and IRL and then decided to do a brief Araneatrox Young-Old hunt since I had noticed a wave of globals come through from them. The second one killed, a Mature, gave me a 600 PED hof with items that had a decent amount of markup.

That little hof helped save the day.

During my stubbornness of wanting to stick with Leviathan earlier in the day, a few in my soc decided to go hunt large Feffox in team... About 5 minutes in to that hunt, they hit a 6k hof, then a 700 ped hof, and a string of globals after that. Would they have hoffed still if I was in that team? Maybe, maybe not.

My point is that EU is not a game for people who mindlessly grind. You have to think and strategize and if you don't, won't, or can't.... Well, thanks for donating to the loot pool.
 
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forgo

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I wonder how much ammo people spend and for how long.

I never shoot less than 600 ped ammo at a time and fair well, but for hunting I have always made my hunts last long enough to get a normalized return. The main reason is that when I was doing 50 ped runs I would almost always lose, since I wasn't out long enough to build loot, and catch the corrections. I generally never walk away with less than 3 globals every hunt.


It would be like crafting amps on condition 2 times, and hoping for a hof,
instead of crafting 1000 clicks on condition to get back a more normalized return.

I would consider the length of time you spend hunting.
 

King Digital

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If what you are doing isn't working.... Change what you are doing.

When you see returns like that, do something different.

I spent the better part of yesterday and the night before hunting small leviathan.

I started around 100 DPS but loot returns were awfull, moreover, no one was getting an abundance of Leviathan globals. Because I wanted to stick with them to make progress on my iron mission, I changed my DPS. I looted a LC-100 (L) and used that until it broke. Obviously going from 100 DPS to the LC-100 is a major change in DPS and I was killing a lot less Leviathan per hour than I was before but my average amount of globals and good loot per hour remained roughly constant. The returns were still a loss but now were manageable.

After the LC-100 broke I bought a LC-150 (L) and used that since the LC-100 was just too tedious for me. I broke that and then bought a second one. The entire time the amount of globals for me over X amount of time remained roughly constant. Clearly my avatar is in a bad return cycle but I knew that from the start.

After I had my fill of Leviathan, I stopped hunting for about an hour, did some things in-game and IRL and then decided to do a brief Araneatrox Young-Old hunt since I had noticed a wave of globals come through from them. The second one killed, a Mature, gave me a 600 PED hof with items that had a decent amount of markup.

That little hof helped save the day.

During my stubbornness of wanting to stick with Leviathan earlier in the day, a few in my soc decided to go hunt large Feffox in team... About 5 minutes in to that hunt, they hit a 6k hof, then a 700 ped hof, and a string of globals after that. Would they have hoffed still if I was in that team? Maybe, maybe not.

My point is that EU is not a game for people who mindlessly grind. You have to think and strategize and if you don't, won't, or can't.... Well, thanks for donating to the loot pool.


damn bro, I couldn't have said it better. Only crazy people, literal psycho expect different results from doing the same thing over and over. Sometimes logging off for a REFRESHING amount of time will change your luck....but never keep at it when you see the loot is mega shyt.

One of your best buddies in this game is a calculator, calc how much it cost per mob...if after 15-30 mobs loot avg is shyt compared to how much it cost to kill/heal/armor decay/etc......best keep it moving.....

but I advise do many testing, and once you've got a good conclusions test your test to make it final and proof positive

im still testing, took many years but I've learned and so have many others that the above is so very true
 

Hypnotyk

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damn bro, I couldn't have said it better. Only crazy people, literal psycho expect different results from doing the same thing over and over. Sometimes logging off for a REFRESHING amount of time will change your luck....but never keep at it when you see the loot is mega shyt.

One of your best buddies in this game is a calculator, calc how much it cost per mob...if after 15-30 mobs loot avg is shyt compared to how much it cost to kill/heal/armor decay/etc......best keep it moving.....

but I advise do many testing, and once you've got a good conclusions test your test to make it final and proof positive

im still testing, took many years but I've learned and so have many others that the above is so very true

15-30 depending on HP of the mob I guess. For me I do the same but I try to burn about 100-200 ped on a mob to see where I stand and how average loot is before I decide to change. And as others have said, my hunts are usually around 1k ped of ammo or so each time so I can hopefully find the break even or profit loot :)
 

Xing Nu

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seem nothing wrong you deposit MA taking the money work as intended.
 

Rocket192

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The problem is that loot is more consistent, but in a bad way. Returns are consistently a loss for us but consistently a profit for MA. If they're going to cap the globals/hofs then maybe they should cap losses too? Maybe a 70% return minimum?

They have to stimulate deposits somehow. Lower player base = more need to stimulate depos. Which means lower returns for us.
 
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SpikeBlack

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The problem is if you make loot boring then EU becomes boring and you're less likely to play and deposit.

But isn't the high risk - high hp - low regen mobs what people asked for and welcomed with open arms?

If you want people to deposit you have to have interesting loot across the whole range not just in a select few.
 

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What HardWrath said and the guy below.

Mindlessly grinding a mob when the loot is bad, is just bad.. it's that simple.
There are times where you can score a HOF and get the loose to even up, but the chance is just smaller compared to just loosing peds..

Second think, you take expensive L gun and freaking L amp and you are surprise you don't have ammo back.

Come on!!! Even if you would get both under current MU, you are at 2.88 ECO with just like 62 dps..
That's pretty stupid thing to do nowadays.

Take maybe EWE LC-150 with a105 and you will get 55dps with 2.93 eco? (taking EWE LC-150 for 116%?)

You would be surprised what difference 2.88 and 2.93 makes..

But whatever, I am myself surprised somebody makes it to commando, then goes takes shitty L guns with shitty L amp and complain.
 

HardWrath

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So as I pointed out in my previous post, yesterday's Leviathan loot wasn't that good but I made changes to manage those losses. Today hunting Leviathan was a different story... I came out way ahead.

Tomorrow loot might suck but then after tomorrow is always another day.

Some days you win, some you lose, and in between you have to switch gears
 

Guarana

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Calm down man. Loot aint so bad. I've lost 5k peds in just ammo costs the last week. Not counting decay on gun / armor / fap.

Just do what everyone else does.

Stop playing the game, Invest in passive income, take out every cent u can. Let the players continue to depo their money into your pockets.

MA have cut the pie into to many pieces, but they will never manage to increase the size of the pie. :)
 

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You would be surprised what difference 2.88 and 2.93 makes..

Not on a 300 ped hunt.

Over time, on a longer tim scale and bigger ped cycle, dmg/pec does have an impact on the overall result though.

But so does beeing maxxed, having the perfect avg of armor decay, fap cost and not to mention one of the most important thing next to beeing maxxed, having as little overkill as possible, choosing mob, choosing time, choosing planet etc.

But i agree, LC-60 + x70 , 300 ped ammo, it does suggest going after a mob that isnt gonna be dead by the 100´s once done, wich opens for possibility of horrific results.

I know plenty of ppl who do really good using 2.8 eco, and i know ppl with 2.95 eco who comes out short almost every time. All those who do well all use maxxed gear though.
 

ermik

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and to those who say one must always do 1k ped runs.

Most of my really good hits , have been when loggin in and out during the day, shooting a few mobs on each login and then logging out again in the middle of spawn just to return later and shooting some more.
 

moondog

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damn bro, I couldn't have said it better. Only crazy people, literal psycho expect different results from doing the same thing over and over. Sometimes logging off for a REFRESHING amount of time will change your luck....but never keep at it when you see the loot is mega shyt.

One of your best buddies in this game is a calculator, calc how much it cost per mob...if after 15-30 mobs loot avg is shyt compared to how much it cost to kill/heal/armor decay/etc......best keep it moving.....

but I advise do many testing, and once you've got a good conclusions test your test to make it final and proof positive

im still testing, took many years but I've learned and so have many others that the above is so very true

^^^ This....

For ages I just got the gun and went pew pew and at the end of the run i would compare my returns with my initial spend. Then one day i sat down for a few hours with a calculator and worked out the average DPS of every weapon in my arsenal, both unamped and with different amps. I dont use damage enhancers bu you can do calcs for these awell.

Next up - go out and find the various mobs you regularly hunt. Then run tests on each maturity, count the shots, including the misses and evades. Then do it a few times more to calculate an average. Then do the same maturity mob a gain with a different weapon. Do this test a few times and count the clicks, do this for different maturities of the mob.

Write all this down and every time you hunt the mob refer back and you will know the average return you need on each mob to get your expenses back. So every time you go out on a mob, if you are not at least getting close to your ammo costs back in the first 10 mobs - just walk away.

I do this all the time, if all the bigger mobs I hunt are doing this - I drop to lower level mobs, I will keep dropping mob levels till I start getting at least close to ammo costs back or I am on Punies. If even the Punies are not paying I know my avatar is in the lowest loot cycle and I will go and do something else entirely in game - even down to sweating / swunting

The reverse is true as well, if you start on small mobs (eg grinding a mission mob) and they dont pay - run a few tests on bigger mobs to see if they will pay out.

Anyone that burns 600 or 1000 ped in ammo without looking at the returns they are getting deserves to lose all their ped.

Didn't you hear "It's Dynamic"

apologies to Warden Coz Coz if she reads this
 

Arch

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one day I lost 300 ped.... that was an epic fucking day
 

Kitch

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and to those who say one must always do 1k ped runs.

Most of my really good hits , have been when loggin in and out during the day, shooting a few mobs on each login and then logging out again in the middle of spawn just to return later and shooting some more.
Depends what you believe, if you believe Kestsukas theory of "factors" on your avatar, it wouldnt matter when you log in at all as the factors would be pre determined, only other variable is what server you are on and if that one is primed to pay out.. And if the whole system on a larger scale is ready to pay out. I have been told to re-log before when I was struggling but don't think that works.. Unless the assumption is that when you reset the connection to the server it generates your next 100,1000,10000 factors at that moment. But I doubt that, would be way to easy to exploit when people figured it out.
 

ermik

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Depends what you believe, if you believe Kestsukas theory of "factors" on your avatar, it wouldnt matter when you log in at all as the factors would be pre determined, only other variable is what server you are on and if that one is primed to pay out.. And if the whole system on a larger scale is ready to pay out. I have been told to re-log before when I was struggling but don't think that works.. Unless the assumption is that when you reset the connection to the server it generates your next 100,1000,10000 factors at that moment. But I doubt that, would be way to easy to exploit when people figured it out.
just saying that almost all my good hits have been when NOT grinding hour for hour. has nothing to do with what i bealive or not.
 

Kitch

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Next up - go out and find the various mobs you regularly hunt. Then run tests on each maturity, count the shots, including the misses and evades. Then do it a few times more to calculate an average. Then do the same maturity mob a gain with a different weapon. Do this test a few times and count the clicks, do this for different maturities of the mob.

Write all this down and every time you hunt the mob refer back and you will know the average return you need on each mob to get your expenses back. So every time you go out on a mob, if you are not at least getting close to your ammo costs back in the first 10 mobs - just walk away.

I do this all the time, if all the bigger mobs I hunt are doing this - I drop to lower level mobs, I will keep dropping mob levels till I start getting at least close to ammo costs back or I am on Punies. If even the Punies are not paying I know my avatar is in the lowest loot cycle and I will go and do something else entirely in game - even down to sweating / swunting
Anyone that burns 600 or 1000 ped in ammo without looking at the returns they are getting deserves to lose all their ped.

Didn't you hear "It's Dynamic"

apologies to Warden Coz Coz if she reads this
Yeah. great approach.. From doing that kind of thing I have noticed that some higher maturities don't pay more even though the cost to kill is more.. Broken? Probably

Which brings me to your final point.. I dont agree in principle, I personally believe that as it is supposed to be a RPG and a grindathon, you should be able to grind and get fairly stable results. The fact that you can do a 600ped run and comeback with 200ped to me that means they have a broken loot system which they have little control over.

There is no bigger turn off for this game than the experiences people are mentioning in this thread. They need to fix this above all else IMO. You should get a fair amount of loot for each mob you kill, not have to realise half way through that a certain mob is "broken" that day. You should never get < 70% Thats not dynamic thats just fucking ridiculous. There should be a personal lootpool of some kind, that is the only way to make the game fair and encourage more people to play and stay. And beat the terrible retention rate of new players which it has now.
 
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