Help: What to do.

[Daniel Steps]

selling peds is considered as selling any other service or good. So the company who sell has to pay the VAT of the country of the client using a specific european central service. http://europa.eu/youreurope/business/vat-customs/cross-border/index_en.htm

Send a simple support to MA, ask who pay the VAT for the money i deposit if i am a european citizen (as i said i do not know how it works for other country). Support will answer you : as soon as you deposit we pay the VAT of your country ourselves.

And yes, if we all deposit, withdraw, deposit, withdraw, then MA go banckrupty !

Bankrupcy by design? Clearly that can't be true (how would they have lasted since 2003).

If known to the SE VAT services, they may not know the real activity or they're only looking at the business to business side. Notice: "The Entropia Platform is a secure entertainment and business platform, enabling companies and organizations all over the world to build content using the Entropia Universe Virtual Reality Platform." They seem to claim they are a publishing company and they may have fooled the tax man. While the intention might be there, it's mainly still an entertainment/gambling service (at least in the player-MA-relation). Notice that they could actually choose to give us 100% return if they actually went for publishing and (of course the difficult part might be) found enough companies willing to publish in this original way (having a bigger player base, and a better player community might be the basis for that).

Tell me please: did you follow your own advice before posting your opinion: did you ask support about it?

And more to the point still: What's the VAT number of MindArk ? SE........

For the game/entertainment-service, they probably should pay VAT per hour we play, not on the deposit nor on the difference deposited-withdrawn quarterly. For a publishing-service, VAT on the B2B-service. They probably should be paying both. Unless they confessed it's gambling (no VAT).

--
Can someone provide info on the company structure (and/or official identification numbers): is MA the business providing the service to players, or is it planet calypso or ...?

--
Source:
-mindark.com: for the description of the service, though there's more text there that can be interpreted in different ways
-http://www.largestcompanies.com/company/MindArk-PE-AB-publ-222860:
Industry 1: B58 Publishing activities - 58290 Other software publishing
-http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/vatResponse.html:
No, invalid VAT number [i used the business ID number in the above business info]
Member State SE
VAT Number SE 5566404769
Date when request received 2016/05/13 11:50:03

 

[whiteknut]

Lol bad loot thread turned into ppl arguing about tax deductions and such... I am bit busy atm or would also join the discussion how tax systems work and why there is no 20% loss every time you deposit for MA (no matter where you are from). Nalia you should talk with some accountant maybe, as you clearly have very little clue about how it actually works and constant depositing and withdrawing would be in fact good for MA (and not lead them to go bust)

 

[Arangar]

Migration money need to come from somewhere, am I right?

 

[Nalia]

From that link:

You may still deduct the VAT you yourself have paid on your related expenses (goods/services bought in specifically to supply that service).

I.E. the expenses related to selling PED, which means MA can realistically deduct 100% of the tax if required (i.e. in the case of operating loss).

Yes, but what you said is partly true. First of all if i am customer based in France, MA is in sweden. I deposit 100 €, MA has to pay to French tax department 20 € (not to Sweden !!!). They can deduce VAT only if they bought some good from France. I am not sure they buy lot of things from France, Belgia, Spain, etc ...

In Sweden MA can deduce all VAT from their Swedish customers.

It is like this i understood the system works.

 

[whiteknut]

Yes, but what you said is partly true. First of all if i am customer based in France, MA is in sweden. I deposit 100 €, MA has to pay to French tax department 20 € (not to Sweden !!!). They can deduce VAT only if they bought some good from France. I am not sure they buy lot of things from France, Belgia, Spain, etc ...

In Sweden MA can deduce all VAT from their Swedish customers.

It is like this i understood the system works.

No you are wrong.

 

[Nalia]

Tell me please: did you follow your own advice before posting your opinion: did you ask support about it?

2015-04-10 10:56 Assistance Entropia Universe :


Hi Nalia,

For all customers/players that live in a country within the common market (EU) we have to pay VAT. We take the cost not you. If you deposit 100 EUR, you receive PEDs for 100 EUR, as you have noticed, but we have to pay VAT that applies in the country you are resident, in this case France. VAT in France is 20 % and therefore we pay 16.66 EUR to the French government for your 100 EUR deposit.

Kind Regards, Gwyneth Entropia Universe Support

And more to the point still: What's the VAT number of MindArk ? SE........

Europe provides a service to check if a VAT number is ok, but i did not found any service that give the VAT number of a company. However i know this service exists and depend on the country tax department. I do not speak sweden so i can't find it (and i do not need it btw).

For the game/entertainment-service, they probably should pay VAT per hour we play, not on the deposit nor on the difference deposited-withdrawn quarterly.

No, not by hour, on deposit (according support answer). Yes you are right they should be able to get back a part of the VAT on the withdraw.

 

[Nalia]

No you are wrong.

No i am not ! (and may be before to say someone is wrong/right you should give some link/prooves/references like i did, not just say "you are wrong !" ...)

2015-04-10 10:56 Assistance Entropia Universe :


Hi Nalia,

For all customers/players that live in a country within the common market (EU) we have to pay VAT. We take the cost not you. If you deposit 100 EUR, you receive PEDs for 100 EUR, as you have noticed, but we have to pay VAT that applies in the country you are resident, in this case France. VAT in France is 20 % and therefore we pay 16.66 EUR to the French government for your 100 EUR deposit.

Kind Regards, Gwyneth Entropia Universe Support

And of cours French government is not going to refund MA when MA buy a server with VAT in another country. That's not the problem of the french government.

The only thing the country will may be accept to refund is VAT on withdraw !

 

[Nalia]

VAT in France is 20 % and therefore we pay 16.66 EUR to the French government for your 100 EUR deposit.


And this make all clear. When we deposit 100 € the MA accounting consider we only deposit 83.34 €. They calculate 20% of taxes (16.66 €) and send this money to the country where we are based.

P.S. All this was explained to me by some other french players. And i decided to check myself and i asked support who confirmed. It means many players knows about all this process already.

 

[Nalia]

VAT in France is 20 % and therefore we pay 16.66 EUR to the French government for your 100 EUR deposit.


And this make all clear. When we deposit 100 € the MA accounting consider we only deposit 83.34 €. They calculate 20% of taxes (16.66 €) and send this money to the country where we are based.

P.S. All this was explained to me by some other french players. And i decided to check myself and i asked support who confirmed. It means many players knows about all this process already.

Question that i asked and that nobody was able to answer : as we do not have all the same tax system and that MA pay more for some of us and less for some others, do we have all the same loot parameters ?
I think yes (MA evaluate an average and all people are on the same parameters). But we will never know.

 

[Billy Jean Ruby]

/OP Your post is like reading my latest activities and returns and even worse.
You're not alone.
I lost my faith in my hunting instict, I lost my faith in my mining talent, I lost my faith in my crafting ability. All I get is losses and crap!!! The only reason to come back is to check my shop and restocked and do some skilling in space if possible from time to time.
I'm officially in a break for .... dunno how long it will last anyway.

 

[Meg]

I'm sorry to see you had this experience. Wish I could tell you it's likely to change but as you know the game is fairly random.

 

[K-Max]

Loot is normal, it is absorbing all your PED at the moment for the next big EP IV payout, should happen any day now. This is the new normal loot payout system in EU.

 

[Pretto Loco]

Many of the high profile "loot sucks" threads ends by being followed by a big ATH which makes the threads disappear into oblivion. Would be interesting to dive down into the forum and compare the dates of the ATH's and the loot sucking debates. Maybe they coincide?

Test same mob but differant maturities using few shots and maxed weapons. Differant tt returns?

 

[ken.ji]

[...] evade messages were out of control [...]

This is were my biggest part of losses came from last 5-6 days. Is not normal using a recomended L14 BLP weapon (I am L48 BLP) to miss so much. Mob would die in 15 weapon shots but I ''do'' another 5-7 ''target evaded attack''. Like I wrote in my today support case I am triple maxed over the recomended level on the gun and my Aim skill points is close to 4k so what the hell is wrong? This is simply robbery. I am ok taking losses but at least dont fool us.

 

[tekmaster82]

This is were my biggest part of losses came from last 5-6 days. Is not normal using a recomended L14 BLP weapon (I am L48 BLP) to miss so much. Mob would die in 15 weapon shots but I ''do'' another 5-7 ''target evaded attack''. Like I wrote in my today support case I am triple maxed over the recomended level on the gun and my Aim skill points is close to 4k so what the hell is wrong? This is simply robbery. I am ok taking losses but at least dont fool us.

Walls of evades. Some were as much as 9 or 10 in a row. I could be heard cursing on my teamspeak server by my friends . Switching weapons made do difference in returns or hit rate.

 

[Spawn]

I have no problems

 

[tekmaster82]

I just had my first global since the 6th! Never have I been so happy to see a 59 peddler LOL.

 

[Fifth]

This is were my biggest part of losses came from last 5-6 days. Is not normal using a recomended L14 BLP weapon (I am L48 BLP) to miss so much. Mob would die in 15 weapon shots but I ''do'' another 5-7 ''target evaded attack''. Like I wrote in my today support case I am triple maxed over the recomended level on the gun and my Aim skill points is close to 4k so what the hell is wrong? This is simply robbery. I am ok taking losses but at least dont fool us.

You do realize this is how it works for everyone, right?
I mean, if u on downswing, u will end up spending more / getting back less so your return % will be lower than average. Sometimes a lot lower.

Now, u can look at it in 2 ways:

1. Suppose u get less hits and more evaded shots because the system has rolled the dice and decided today u will lose.
2. Or, maybe it's the other way around, the system rolls a dice for each shot and when u score too many 1s instead of 6s you will lose.

Does it matter which way it works? What difference does it make?

Yeah it seems unrealistic to shoot a large animal at point blank range - and miss, considering you are an expert with the weapon.
I'd say it's unrealistic even if u not an expert.

So, suppose they'll reinvent the whole thing, make it more realistic. Considerably less evaded shots. Not 5-6 per mob but 1-2. Or there'll be a completely different reason why u end up losing this day.
Right now u can rage about those evaded shots. Take those away, u will rage about something else when u lose. There's always something. U'll never dance around all happy about it...

 

[tribalwind]

And me, i am just laughing ...because that s months/years we told you,

But you keep asserting you fantasy 90% return, based out on nothing.
then "we" told you is just economic bubble, reply = "ah you want to see the game dead, blablabla"


And now you lose everything, as most people did for years !,
lol, did it stopped working for you ? you suddenly noob ? tell me about it . i am really interested.

See, making fun of poor people for years(like they don't have a brain too) , and haircut is for you, fun isn't it? you have hairs too

 

[tribalwind]

don't worry it s nice haircut, army style

 

[KullXP]

deactivated

 

[MartinXVI]

In the old times I used to grind drones (it was back then when they dropped gazzurdite) and was experiencing something similar. I've cycled 20k peds on small drones without one single global. It was horrible loot period which lasted for several days/weeks. Tried switching mobs, weapons, amps ... whatever, nothing helped. So I don't think it's something new.

It can really surprise you if you have low bankroll. I would suggest doing 1 run a day till it gets better and don't force hunt mobs at all cost when loot period is bad. Just don't go for bigger mobs, in most cases it will end up even worse. Once the loot turns better, hunt as much as you can.

 

[syntax]

@OP I am in the same boat as you. I've had terrible returns for a while now, no matter what activity/mob. Personally, I'm tired of it and slowly leaving the game one profession at a time.

As you stated in your starting post, I don't mind paying for entertainment, and I've been a regular depositor for 13 years. I've put thousands in the game, and frankly I don't think I'm getting my money's worth. It's just a constant loss, and I've never gotten anything back from MA to make me want to keep playing. I'm tired of chasing their golden carrot.

If it makes you feel any better, this sums up my last month or so:

I depo'd a few K for Golden Weak, which ended up being about 70% return for me. After draining my PED card in Golden Week I depo'd some more and spent it mining. My average for all runs was 48% (no globals, no hofs), and I quickly lost all of my depo (unamped, low-risk mining btw). That's when I quit mining. I've sold all mining gear and still working on selling the skills.

Decided taming was next. Burned through my last 5 whips, ended up with 64% return. Sold taming skills.

Depo'd some more, and now I'm hunting until I go broke. So far I'm at around 60% return. Globals are nowhere in sight.


So no, you are not alone.