Question: Why are you here? (select 2 reasons why you play EU)

Why are you here? (pick 1 or 2 answers)

  • 1. I fell in love with an early version of Entropia or PE

    Votes: 59 42.1%
  • 2. For the Real Cash Economy

    Votes: 66 47.1%
  • 3. Social aspects (community, society, friends, etc.)

    Votes: 14 10.0%
  • 4. For the markup! (to make money)

    Votes: 19 13.6%
  • 5. Key mapping: one of few games I can play (disability)

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • 6. To have fun! (role play, explore alien worlds, have swirlies, etc.)

    Votes: 33 23.6%
  • 7. I want an ATH! (or other notoriety, i.e. high skill level, soc leader, etc.)

    Votes: 6 4.3%
  • 8. Other (please share)

    Votes: 3 2.1%
  • --- 𝗪𝗛𝗔𝗧 𝗧𝗬𝗣𝗘 𝗢𝗙 𝗘𝗡𝗧𝗥𝗢𝗣𝗜𝗔 𝗣𝗔𝗥𝗧𝗜𝗖𝗜𝗣𝗔𝗡𝗧 𝗔𝗥𝗘 𝗬𝗢𝗨? ---

    Votes: 2 1.4%
  • 1. I am a Hunter

    Votes: 100 71.4%
  • 2. I am a Miner

    Votes: 18 12.9%
  • 3. I'm a Crafter

    Votes: 8 5.7%
  • 4. I am a Trader

    Votes: 4 2.9%
  • 5. I am an Investor (LA owner, Deeds/Shares holder)

    Votes: 11 7.9%
  • 6. I'm a Spaceship Operator

    Votes: 4 2.9%
  • 7. Shop Owner

    Votes: 6 4.3%
  • 8. Non-Depositor (sweating, healing, etc.)

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • 9. Other

    Votes: 5 3.6%

  • Total voters
    140
I don't think this is correct at all Atrax. I think that most of the people using this forum are hardcore, veteran EU players with big stakes in EU. Drakil, Buzz, myself, MsPudding, Forgo, and countless more, have significant investments in the game. Eve, Messi, Raven, Lunchbox, JBK, Alainax, etc. have items worth lots of money, they aren't playing around most of them, Entropia is a serious entreprise to them and they are pursuing it keenly.

When I say "make money" I do mean getting paid in cash. Are you taking regular withdrawals, enough to impact your RL? (no stress that's a sort of rhetorical question)


probably JBK too though he says he's a depositor

This is critical to what I'm addressing. If he says he's a net depositor, it's probably true. That he continues to choose to be a net depositor in the face of the fact that he may actually be in profit - it would presumably be because he's not here to "make money", but continues to support the game. Some others among those names, as well.

I would never try to put words in JBK's (or anyone's) mouth but I suspect this might be part of why the expected options aren't polling that well.
 
I think that maybe this is deceptive. If you're looking forward for direction, ignoring this is a huge mistake. As a matter of opinion of course but results here are biased by what's left of the people who have played over the years. This was once a very social environment, it's just that a lot of those kind of people have left as, one by one, MA has stripped away so many of the parts of the game that made the game fun to more directly support and enforce an atmosphere of competitive turnover.

This was in response to my comment about Social Aspects polling badly and saying I wasn't going to follow up on it since in itself, is not an important part of the reason why people keep playing EU.

I just wanted to clarify cause there might be a slight misunderstanding here.

All we know for sure from this poll is that Social Aspects (and by extension, Social Interaction systems as they exist in Entropia) are not an important factor in why people here are playing EU.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't be improved. It just means it's not what you would advertise, not right now anyway.

Should they be worked on and improved? Yes of course, these systems in Entropia are way behind the curve in the gaming world so gaming folks do notice how poor they are when they start playing EU.

With this poll I'm not trying to find out what MA needs to improve or not, I'm just trying to find what is it that Entropia has, right now, that actually does retain people.

Because if they knew what that was, and marketed the game properly, retention rates would improve because they would be acquiring and bringing the right folks to the game, the ones that are looking for what the game actually HAS to offer.
 
All we know for sure from this poll is that Social Aspects (and by extension, Social Interaction systems as they exist in Entropia) are not an important factor in why people here are playing EU.

100% agreed and with all I just said, this is definitely not an important aspect of the current game. Sorry to go on a tangent.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't be improved. It just means it's not what you would advertise, not right now anyway.

:thumbup: for sure.
 
Ok so we have our first 100 votes on this poll now:

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First I just want to briefly explain why in this poll it was important to give people only 2 votes max. Giving everyone the opportunity to just check off all that apply usually will reseult in some false positives because it tends to just find the least objectionable statements as opposed to the ones that really matter the most. For example in this poll, we could have just easily ended up with a really high level of agreement on something like "Social Aspects" when the reality is that in itself, it isn't a major part of the reason why people play. Individual votes lose all their weight and become a lot less meaningful in that kind of survey where 'check all that apply' model is used.

When people can only pick 1 or 2 possible answers, out of 8 in this case, they will pick the ones that matter most, and that's really valuable feedback overall, much more valuable.

Ok so "Why are you here?" or, "Why do you play Entropia?"

1. I fell in love with an early version of Entropia or PE
Wow, 42% of those who voted here so far say this is a major part of it. That is significantly more then I had anticipated. I spend a lot of time in this forum and I have seen this come up a lot over the years, but I expected maybe 20% to pick that one, not 42%!

Okay well, what does it mean? Well, first I would say that it means that first impressions really matter. The first contact with and experience in a new world or game can have long lasting impact on a participant. Entropia has a loyal following, 42% of which say fell in love with it right from the start and that's an important part of the reason they are still playing it today, wow. And yet today, what is the first impression, the first contact? A glitchy Thule? I went there once out of curiosity to see what new players were experiencing. I found myself unable to get the very first NPC to talk to me. I don't know if it was just me or what but I was really disappointed. Anyway, the first experience is really important, they have to look at what that experience should look like.

Let's think back though, there are some other things to consider. PE launched officially on Jan 30, 2003, a full 6 months before Second-Life and almost 2 full years before World of Warcraft. There really wasn't much in terms of online Sci-fi themed persistent virtual universes, though EVE Online did come out in May of that year, but it was spaceships-in-space, so a different concept. I think at the time the most popular MMORPG was Everquest, which was fantasy themed. So PE was really unique back then, even more so when you consider the RCE aspect of it. So I can imagine the fact that it was so "out-of-this-world" unique made the first experience even more memorable.

But I do want to mention one more thing though, back then it seems that the positioning and advertising for Project-Entropia was very simple and direct. In fact, they promoted this was a dangerous place and warned people NOT to come. It's a trick of course but it aludes somewhat subliminally to the reality that survival would be tough, which is true when you think about it. So how could people be disappointed if their initial deposit didn't last more then a couple days, after all, hadn't they been warned beforehand? See for yourself:


Truth in advertising is very important, if you aren't truthful, people will not buy or stick around. Here MA just mostly introduced people to the idea it's the first habitable planet found after Earth, there's lots of opportunity, and then a warning from people already there that it's a dangerous place, it's "survival of the fittest" and "don't believe the hype".

Okay anyway, enough about that one. I am already working on a follow up survey to try and identify what made people's first experience fall in love with the game, what made it so memorable, maybe we can learn something from that.

2. For the Real-Cash Economy
Alright, that one was very predictable, we have 52% saying this is an important part of the reason they play Entropia. We should do some more surveys to find out what that means to people, and why it's important to them.

3. Social Aspects (community, society, friends, etc.)
Alright well, not very significant, only 8%. It's not that surprising, Social Interaction systems in EU are buggy and behind in terms of functions and utility. In any case, the current players don't think this is an important part of the reason they play. Could it be? That's beyond the scope of this poll.

4. For the Markup! (to make money)
I thought for sure this would poll way higher. I thought #2 RCE and this one would poll very similarly. So out of 100 votes, there's only 13 who say they play EU to make money, wow, and making money was one of the buttons that MA pushed for a very long time in their advertising of Entropia, and we find out that's not why people are playing.

It makes sense though I guess because the way the game is designed right now, you have to be willing to lose a lot of money first before you even have a chance to start making some. So if money is important to you and you are very attached to it, there's no way you'll be able to persevere to the point where you'll start making some, so that can't be your goal, at least not for a while.

There is a big disconnect here and at first glance I'd say that "making money", "make money playing video games", "claim your fortune", anything like that is not going to work in your favor in your advertising. You'll have retention issues, people will say this game is a scam, that you are doing false advertising, that this game is just gambling, etc... It's going to be problematic to say the least. But more polling needs to be done to understand this better and to understand what people mean exactly when they say they are playing for the Real-Cash Economy, it's possible my poll choices were faulty or redundant.

5. Key-mapping: one of few games I can play (disability)
I included this one because I've heard this many times in this forum and I wasn't sure exactly how important of a factor it really is. Only 1 person mentionned this is an important part of the reason they play EU, so not as much as I thought. I expected this to poll between 5 and 10%. Seems it's way less than that right now.

6. To have fun! (role play, explore alien worlds, have swirlies, etc.)
22% is not a lot. This is the third most important reason why people play, it should be higher than that. I thought this would poll above 30% for sure. It's strange. Probably the game needs to be more fun but that would have to be polled seperately.

7. I want an ATH! (or other notoriety, i.e. high skill level, soc leader, etc.)
I had to check if this was part of the reason why people played, it's not really. Only 4 people out of 100 said it was. To be fair, getting on the ATH is next to impossible at this point, those that may have had this as a goal at some point probably gave up. MA should figure out a way to make it possible for players to work towards some sort of notoriety in EU, for both PVE and PVP players.

8. Other (please share)
So the fact only 2 people out of 100 chose this one is a good sign, it tells me that the 98 others found their reasons for playing within the choices that were provided, so this is good. It gives us an even higher level of confidence in the poll results.

And then we have the 2nd question:
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The only thing I want to say about this is that a lot of people come to PCF to advertise their shops or their Lands so that's probably why only 75% of voters were actually Hunters. The Demographics in EU are probably a little different than that, and although I don't have access to this data, I wouldn't be surprised if the actual ratio of hunters to other professions/activity was somewhere between 80-90%. We just have to keep that in mind when looking at the results on the first question: Why you play EU? Trading, managing/advertising your Land or your Shop, are not really fun activities, so that can be a factor there (why #6 didn't poll as well as expected).
 
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Wasn't sure what to pick so i just picked shop.

I do hunt and craft (for the shop) too tho
 
the above poll is showing me that Social Aspects for example, is not a significant reason for people to continue playing Entropia

it's just revealing a certain survivorship bias in the remaining community.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't be improved. It just means it's not what you would advertise, not right now anyway.
I haven't read all of Legends from and including about 06:25 on the last page, because I found what I really wanted to comment on quickly as one of the fallacies, in my opinion.
I discovered lower down, though, that Atrax had picked up on EXACTLY the biggest point up to then for me too! I even wanted to search for the correct expression (survivorship bias - ty Atrax) by looking up the example of which bombers in wartime made it back to base in one piece - and what 'most' people inferred, except the cleverest of them.
We are like survivors, we are (still?) here! If you don't know about this bias, then you will probably not understand why it may actually be MOST important to focus on social aspects moving forward. Note: it isn't directly for me, but that exactly fits the mould. We have lost the people for whom it is very important and who may be far more common than me and my 'type' of player...

(I think Atrax backed away a bit in the last comment, not wanting to frustrate people. "this is definitely not an important aspect of the current game. Sorry to go on a tangent." - note the word 'current'! Which is true, yes. Ah, yes, but.... you see?)
 
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I also think this is one of the most valuable discussions that the forum has had. Maybe it is very good indeed that some points have been brought up seriously and in some detail in the contributions! I'll go and read on back on page one now, and continue thinking. Blimey folks ;)!

Quick edit here, as nothing is below yet...
4. For the Markup! (to make money)
I thought for sure this would poll way higher. I thought #2 RCE and this one would poll very similarly.
Markup is a subset of RCE, and you want a maximum of 2 answers, so for me it is more surprising that it got even 13% out of the first 100. You have the details, I imagine, that we don't see. How many voted for both categories, and how many of the MUs went for something other than RCE as the second tick?
 
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(I think Atrax backed away a bit in the last comment, not wanting to frustrate people. "this is definitely not an important aspect of the current game. Sorry to go on a tangent." - note the word 'current'! Which is true, yes. Ah, yes, but.... you see?)

I agree that "How do we improve what's working" and "How do we fix what's broken" are two different questions.

Respect to @Legends for trying to focus on one thing at a time. It clearly takes a bit of effort 😛
 
I don’t believe anyone who doesn’t pick option 2 (RCE)

I don't care that it is an RCE. I found out about it when seeing articles about most valuable virtual assets. Later on looked for a sci fi mmorpg. This one came up again. I created my account, deposited, logged in and immediately felt drawn to the animals and the scenery. Then I met awesome people. Im nearing the end game portion and still have no plans to ever withdraw even 1$ from the game. I dont see it as real money once it goes in the game.

I think many people get clouded over it being real money, get milked, and get scared to continue cycling. Or come up with ideas like "Atrox paid me more returns, so I'm gonna stick to them" and ultimately get disappointed. I think if more people started to look at it as a game, theyd be more inclined to explore what different mobs had to offer in terms of mark up, and in some cases better skill increase per ped. Theyd be more inclined to take more educated risks for better or for worse, and learn from those experiences.

Theyd learn why certain items rise and lower in markup throughout the year, and in the process level up to make them more flexible to be able to bend to what the market needs. If you found something that will consistently make you profit for some time, the faster you can hunt it, the better. I believe that is what 'investing in your avatar' means. And I believe that many simple minded 1 dimensional thinkers really only see it as level up to get better returns in markup, Or level up to kill bigger mobs for bigger loot. Which again leads to disappointment.

Ive never found the game to be as expensive as a lot of people claim.
 
I don't care that it is an RCE. I found out about it when seeing articles about most valuable virtual assets. Later on looked for a sci fi mmorpg. This one came up again. I created my account, deposited, logged in and immediately felt drawn to the animals and the scenery. Then I met awesome people. Im nearing the end game portion and still have no plans to ever withdraw even 1$ from the game. I dont see it as real money once it goes in the game.

I think many people get clouded over it being real money, get milked, and get scared to continue cycling. Or come up with ideas like "Atrox paid me more returns, so I'm gonna stick to them" and ultimately get disappointed. I think if more people started to look at it as a game, theyd be more inclined to explore what different mobs had to offer in terms of mark up, and in some cases better skill increase per ped. Theyd be more inclined to take more educated risks for better or for worse, and learn from those experiences.

Theyd learn why certain items rise and lower in markup throughout the year, and in the process level up to make them more flexible to be able to bend to what the market needs. If you found something that will consistently make you profit for some time, the faster you can hunt it, the better. I believe that is what 'investing in your avatar' means. And I believe that many simple minded 1 dimensional thinkers really only see it as level up to get better returns in markup, Or level up to kill bigger mobs for bigger loot. Which again leads to disappointment.

Ive never found the game to be as expensive as a lot of people claim.
Too bad this is not a sci-fi game anymore.
 
I have always enjoyed the idea of players being able to sell in-game assets they have acquired for money. The majority of games out there simply refuse to embrace any kind of real cash economy. This single feature of the game is what that lured me in so many years ago. It was also the same reason I returned this year.



While I do miss the older style and looting system of the game before loot 2.0. It has been amazing to return and see what this universe has been up to in my many years of absence only checking in infrequently.



I have found over the years any attempt at what Entropia is to be created elsewhere an utter disappointment. There is an endless sea of “play to earn” games out there that lack the heart, depth, and conviction of a game with as many years on it as this.
 
At 129 votes now and the poll results are still pretty the same as they were at 100 votes
 
My honest opinion..The community is first...it fell off and now I look at my deposits to be honest. I skill and now it has turned into game Vs returns.
 
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