Question: Why aren't more people Mining?

[Gopher]

For a more fuel eco option (and slightly less bulky/cumbersome) I almost exclusively Spear-mine. It also increases your drops per minute since you get between drop spots quicker. There are a lot of little tidbits out there some miners are willing to share.

I still keep a Kraka around for long hauls or areas with mobs, but it's pretty rare I'm on foot for long. I am a melee hunter for the rare times I do hunt because I want to boost strength and agility, but vehicles really make both not a major consideration.

the ahlan's old vehicle from the toulan starter mission uses .05 oil/km, dont know why I dont see more ppl use it, it takes 20km to use up 1 oil. I think its the most eco vehicle in game

 

[Legends]

Yep, I started my post and had to walk away for a bit and returned to finish, so yes, didn't see the new posts that came in, including yours.

Doesn't change what I said though. These 2 threads are basically saying you are pissed about MU these days and want some fix, either more miners to smooth the avail qty, or somehow tweak so market players don't play as well as they are these days.

Well, yes, both threads address the same issue.

First, lets be clear on the issue, I don't have a problem with markup, for instance, you won't hear me complain about Redulite being 500%, because it was 500% two months ago and can reliably be expected to be around 500% two months from now. No, the issue I have is with resources being 140% one day, and than 240% the next. It's too volatile and unpredictable and it has become very difficult to operate in that sort of chaotic environment.

So I started with this thread assuming that the crux of the issue resided in the fact there is not enough miners and that if only there were more, prices would be more stable.

Then, I forget what it was exactly, but some comments made me realize I was not addressing the problem directly enough and that I was making assumptions about game mechanics which honestly, I am not that familar with and don't fully understand, so I created the other thread so I could express what it was exactly that was frustrating me.

In the end, I believe that my concerns about the level of volatility we are seeing these days around resources used in tiering is legit. I don't regret bringing light to it and I hope something will change.

 

[Robin]

I'm a miner. I plan on kind of slowly retreating from it for a while. I don't have very good hunting gear evidently because I get nowhere doing that either. I'm beginning to feel like all this is just a waste of money and I could do just as well throwing my money out the car window. This wasn't always the case with this game. I've played for almost 17 years so don't tell me I don't know how to play.

 

[kingofaces]

the ahlan's old vehicle from the toulan starter mission uses .05 oil/km, dont know why I dont see more ppl use it, it takes 20km to use up 1 oil. I think its the most eco vehicle in game

You want some sort of hoverbike/craft so you can go over water or hilly terrain. Wheeled vehicles tend to get hung up easy unless you are on flat land. Depends on the spot.

 

[JohnCapital]

No,the issue I have is with resources being 140% one day, and than 240% the next. It's too volatile and unpredictable and it has become very difficult to operate in that sort of chaotic environment.

Well, let's put it this way. I've been mining the same area for the past 2-3 years. I've watched the exact same resources I dig up rise and fall all. the. time.

What do I do about it? I put em up for sale at the current prices and keep going.

Then again, you are a crafter, so while my expenses are pretty rock solid steady, what you get from your stuff profit-wise is quite simply locked in with the price of your ingredients, so I get why harsh fluctuations can tend to upset you.

 

[Atrax]

“We need miners!!! But not in my spot!!!”

I'm not re-reading the whole thread, but I don't think that's the case. The only person saying "we need more miners" is someone who put up a pretty detailed explanation of why he doesn't mine.

We need more gear.
We need bigger caps.
We need more MU.
We need better maps.
We need some excitement/engagement (and not just being robbed).

These are the things I see the miners saying. Some different priorities at different levels but, yeah.

Hunters: Come dump PED in the loot pool!!
Crafters: Come dump PED in the loot pool!
Miners: God @#$ @#$ these resource caps!!!

 

[D3sire]

Simple solution to all above: enable 15% standard reload to work on excavator, also enable pill reload like hyper 10% to max reload on excavator....aditional move speed would help a lot and this is most simple way of making excavating easier. This could be patched by next tuesday!

 

[LordDracher]

Some people have been telling me to just mine, without really understanding that I can't, you're the first to ask, finally.

Believe me, if I could, I would, but mining is not an option for me, I have tried before. The short answer is I can't run. My avatar hasn't been able to run for, oh I dunno, 4 years now.

This reminds me of Jabba the Hutt . To stay on topic, mining has too much no resources found. The current system is too simplistic and doesn't have a big enough variance in claim sizes to make it interesting or fun. But I am just anoob miner so my opinion is based on that. To clean up mining I think it would be better to have fewer actual resources to find and a much broader or dare I say dynamicness to claim sizes.

 

[DrGirlfriend]

Make mining have always something returned, like hunting.

 

[kingofaces]

Make mining have always something returned, like hunting.

Then people will complain about claim sizes being reduced even further, moreso than when the variability of claim sizes was reduced (fewer NRF/small claims, but also fewer big multipliers). Mining doesn't need to be made more like hunting.

Simple solution to all above: enable 15% standard reload to work on excavator, also enable pill reload like hyper 10% to max reload on excavator....aditional move speed would help a lot and this is most simple way of making excavating easier. This could be patched by next tuesday!

This would make a lot of sense, and honestly with the 2016 Xmas ring mostly being a mining ring, it does seem odd that the reload buff doesn't do anything for mining tools.

 

[Atrax]

Then people will complain about claim sizes being reduced even further, more so than when the variability of claim sizes was reduced (fewer NRF/small claims, but also fewer big multipliers). Mining doesn't need to be made more like hunting.

Yeah I feel like a lot of people got a lesson with loot 2.0 that "more stable returns" wasn't what they really wanted.

 

[Bamb00cha]

Simple solution to all above: enable 15% standard reload to work on excavator, also enable pill reload like hyper 10% to max reload on excavator....aditional move speed would help a lot and this is most simple way of making excavating easier. This could be patched by next tuesday!

Buy mod exca and yog horror

 

[Legends]

Though if I could re-do this poll there are a couple things I would change, I think the poll result are very interesting:

So why aren't more people mining?

About 3/4 (65% + 11% = 76%) agree that:

Because the current Mining system (waves) is boring/sucks​

That's a lot of people. That is 90 people, out of 119, that's a lot of agreement, that is the majority.

Next, more than half (43% + 11% = 54%) agree that:

Because Hunting is much more fun/engaging​

I'm glad I included this as a choice in the poll answers, it confirms to me that it DOES matter that professions and activities be fun and engaging, otherwise people won't participate.

If a poll like this was done for crafting, we'd probably get a similar result on that one; the current crafting system is NOT very fun or engaging either and a lot of people craft mostly afk.

• Because there is no Mayhem/event for Miners​

  ~36%

• Because there's not enough UL gear or rewards for Miners​

  39.5%

These 2 were included mostly because I wanted to see if adding events, rewards or UL gear might influence activity, looks like it would, 36% and ~40% are decent numbers and if MA worked on this, it definitely would increase participation in mining, even without fixing what's really wrong with it.

One of the more interesting results is with the perception in regards to profitability; based on this poll, it's pretty clear that people do not think that mining is less profitable then hunting or crafting.

Because other activities/professions are more profitable​

Only 22% agree with this statement, which tells me that the majority of people (almost 80%) don't think that mining is less profitable than hunting or crafting. And this adds even more weight to the point that a profession or activity has to be fun and engaging in order for people to consider participating in it.

I would go so far as to say, it seems to me that people will pick a profession first and foremost based on their perception of whether or not it looks fun to them, and then work towards "winning" (profiting) within that profession.

It would be interesting to do another poll to find out what exactly the miners like about mining, this could inform MA about what aspects of mining they should try to keep when developping the mining profession in UE5, and what aspects they can dispense with and/or improve.

We do know from the many answers we got in this thread that there are too many NRFs, and that extracting is long and boring to many of the current miners.

Hopefully MA has found this poll and this thread to have been informative and will take the feedback into consideration.

Cheers,
Legends

 

[Msturlese]

sorry legend but did we need a poll to understand that runing around like a stupid and pressing E is less interesting than shooting?
did we need a poll to understand that my looting ring or a loot pill allow me to collect quartering in half a sectiona nd excavating is boring?

i personally think that game is affe3cfted by a severe totalitarism syndrome

MA is unable to balance so it controls
1. excavating is to limit speed of supply
2. crafting cycle of the machine is to limt supply (1000 click per hour) of made items
3. hunt waves is to limit supply of certain items artificially creating Markup via shortage (tier items as an example)

a move on the slider of loot control console can alter the economy in 1 second.

if we remove excavating time we will ahve an instant flood of Dclass /L5 amping spree that flood the market of useless items (mining fillers, lysterium and oil) that will collapse to TT
if we remove crafting cycle we will ahve istant craft of whatever flooding all market from one crafting team (they will just click all clickable)
the economy stops because there are full AH, full storagesm, no final users.

It is pretty clear (i would say crystal clear) that the problem is NOT the supply chain it is the lack of end users.

we need a "resource sinking system" that has some sense, even if it is a "SI increase of armors" like we do on spaceships, people buy resources to upgrade armors, 1 def point every ? xxx amount of ingots, different whatever is the mineral, same for weapons or amps,
remove EP to get more resource sinking
then experimenting... allow some "mineral upgarde path of extractors" to make them faster (more resource sinking)
game can not simply "give more".. need "sink poed to give more" like upgrading angel armor, or viceroy and so on.

 

[Atrax]

Not entirely relevant but I think I got my first SOOTO ever tonight. Mining strongboxes count, right? I'm not using the loot window. I went to check what I had at a service center and two boxes. Not a lot of PED but awesome!

TBF though I had quit my run about 2/3 the way to my target because I was bored...

Also tonight was one of the first times I mined PVP4 and was like "what's with all the lysterium?". I wasn't seeing any miners and assumed most would be shooting - but maybe I was following someone. Or just capped Whatever though TT+ cycling this depo for now. And strongbox MV if I want it.

Anyways ...

1. excavating is to limit speed of supply
2. crafting cycle of the machine is to limt supply (1000 click per hour) of made items
3. hunt waves is to limit supply of certain items artificially creating Markup via shortage (tier items as an example)

1. It really seems this way. Although to be clear it limits speed of distribution, it doesn't regulate supply.

2. I feel it actually saves some people from losing too much PED off wave. In any case, there is another system to regulate supply.
(Imagine the crafter that comes on and does 1000 autoclicks in 2 minutes. At a bad time ...)

3. Also here the waves appear to be regulating distribution, not supply. There are plenty of supporting data for mindark adding/trickling items into the drop tables, which are then distributed via the wave system. A recent example:

My Azuro Adjusted Journet

Since I plan to hunt more than just vixens, I want to share the other mobs I have hunted and the profits I have gained from such. Most recently I was hunting Jolly Lurkers (10hp seasonal mob on cyrene) Total loot 1296.32 PED Total spent 1304.94 PED Returns 99.34 % Globals 2 HoFs 0 Rare items...

www.planetcalypsoforum.com

Back through the list?

if we remove excavating time we will ahve an instant flood of Dclass /L5 amping spree that flood the market of useless items (mining fillers, lysterium and oil) that will collapse to TT

Right but no change to the amount of pyrite/igni/whatever hitting the market each day. If there weren't enough people mining to hit caps, we would hardly be aware of them.

if we remove crafting cycle we will ahve istant craft of whatever flooding all market from one crafting team (they will just click all clickable)

This just isn't going to happen. The "partial success" mechanism exists to allow TT balance regardless of any cap/allowance on items. I hold that the turnover rate is actually protecting the majority of crafters here. Globals and TT losses in crafting have very little effect on what reaches the market.

I like the idea for SI upgrades on armor. With caps also please. So that instead of one person having as much armor as a mothership, we end up with most UL armors in the game getting upgraded over time. Either way, it would be an interesting change to the game and the markets.

EP can go away, but people will most likely be sorry. It's here for a reason and if high turnover crafter/gamblers have to click real BPs again we'll get back in the other boat which is too much markup for hunters and miners to be effective. Ditching EPI - EPIII would be helpful, causing them to skill up at least one particular crafting tree. You don't actually want crafters cycling massive amounts of PED burning all the oils and basic mats out of the economy. Once they're just autoclicking tens or hundreds of K each day they need to be in a separate loop.

What's the dpp when Ar-Matrix is costing 200% + across the board?

There are several good ideas floating around for this, though. My latest favorite is just yanking nanocubes and letting us refine stuff into them. All kinds of stuff. This puts markup back onto the high turnover loop and discourages "gambling" without just wrecking a different part of the system. Alternatively they could let us refine stuff down to residue.

This would help consume TT or near-TT resources, clean up some junk, and actually possibly still lower MU on (L) items. Moving the MV from res to core mats would mean fluctuations in core mats would have less (required) impact on market prices.

then experimenting... allow some "mineral upgarde path of extractors" to make them faster (more resource sinking)
game can not simply "give more".. need "sink poed to give more" like upgrading angel armor, or viceroy and so on.

I think speeding up extraction is fine - as long as, like a crafter, you're willing to focus on your TT returns and not depend on chasing MU. As you noted above, faster mining is just going to lead directly to more junk.

100% about the sinking issue, though. There are plenty of ways to get players to sink PED. They've shifted a lot around through the years and some things have been more successful than others, but it's really, definitely not the same ecosystem from a decade ago.

Anyways there's another book. Sorry it was more engaging than mining PVP4 watching daikiba globals