Why hunt people like this ?

[Ace]

Hi fellow entropians.

Since i got alot of negative respond latly from people i dont know and from people i have never been involved with in any way of matter, i thought it would be a good thing to post here on EF in general discussion.
I don't know if you need any background on the subject but i can tell you what happened to me:
I hosted an auc, got low bids and then withdrew an offer.

Ofcourse this affected the bidder on the specific iteam.
Anyhow, i thought that the forum might understand my action since i just tried to save a smaller money loss.

Well. The truth is that i got 47 neg reps in 1 night.
- truly this is not the way it should be ? For the first:

EF is not a binding auction.
I can understand that people wants it to be since the real auction in EU accually takes quite a high fee now for posting of iteams.
- But we should also remind us that there is only a small part of the EU participants using the EF forum and therefor the bids get lower. well.. i lost quite a bit in all the iteams i sold here but i thought it was worth it.

On the other hand, when bids get to low as in this case, what is there to do ? Would it have helped if I in my orignial post would have said that I accually might remove my offers if the offers where not serious enuf? I dont think that would have made any offers at all. And on the other hand, to remove offers was never my intend.

What happened was something i didnt even think about when I posted them, I knew that there would be a small loss but also that i would make some people happy. -However, im not willing to support offers less than ~ 70% of market value. I dont support such a buissness because I know the buyer is not serious when he post such a bid.

So i thought that the only way to get out of this was to remove my offer to the buyer.
Maybe i acted for my ego but for me there was no point in selling and yes I was counting with him to get upset over it. To make him happy i gave the iteam another chance on 23.99h on the EU auc with startbid tt+1. This way he can accually get the iteam just with 24h delay.

However, the hole EF swarmed over me like a farm of wasps.
Its accually not a big deal if someone in the end chooses to keep an iteam if he is not ready to sell it.

So think over your behaviour mates!
- It's so sad to read the threads about you negrepping everyone.

 

[EarlVonKippler]

47 neg reps in one night is pretty hardcore. the auction only affected 5 to 10 people and most came away happy. i think you might be catching the flack from a level of frustration with eu auctions. imho it seems sellers bagging out at the last minute is more common these days. perhaps there is always a level of that in these informal auctions.

 

[Ace]

Yes. This is probably true. And I mean, giving people a lot of crap is not the way to get them to change, what i would like you guys to do is to give advise and be helpfull. Probably we could build a friendly forum on those basis.

 

[Dorsai]

It's simple really.

If you plan to withdraw an item if the offers are too low, SAY SO right from the start.

If you want to reach a certain minimum price, either post a starting price, or accept the bid "RESERVE PRICE NOT MET," so that the bidder knows to raise the offer.
I think posting a starting price it the more honest way to go.

To pull an item after the auction has ended just because the price was too low will not enhance your reputation, or inspire others to trust you in future auctions.

 

[Witte]

You got negrepped for lying. I read that other post, and all I can conclude is that you havnt been fair. So it seems very deserved to me.

 

[Ace]

It didnt help me anyway.. anyhow there was a few people who gave me tips for the future. and those where appreciated, thx!

Regards

 

[Ace]

You got negrepped for lying. I read that other post, and all I can conclude is that you havnt been fair. So it seems very deserved to me.

plz dont start this again. I removed my offer since i got unserious bids, thats it.

 

[Bonna]

I dont know the full in's and out's but you got + rep from me for simply explaining yourself and being honist.

Also in my opinion nobody deserves ANY level of abuse..

if you had done something to make me angry I'd just say so with none abusive language instead of just insults.

It's not constructive and has no place in society at all...

 

[binary]

plz dont start this again. I removed my offer since i got unserious bids, thats it.

Unserious bids? If they were lower than initial bid that was specified by you in the first post when you made a thread (I suppose), then they really were unserious.
Otherwise I believe those were 100% serious bids from serious people that wanted to buy your items.

Imho removing offer (if it has bids) is unserious though.

 

[Laz]

[Deleted]

Yeah, I think you made a mistake with this auction-retract-thing, but such flaming bashing is from the bottom of the deck! (especially from people not directly involved)
On the other side you should be true to your word. Back when I was active in the skill buying bussiness I miscalculated a price for some skills. But when I saw how much skills were on the chip actually I knew that I would make a loss of many, many PEDders. However, I bought the implant for the prearranged price.
I don't tell this story to show how honest and good I am. But I'm sure this guy still knows me, knows that I stick to my word, that's what reputation means.
However, 47 neg-reps for this one issue is heavy. Maybe you should appologize to the guy you "sold" the ep on EF, get a new ep, and then sell it to him for the arranged price? This would restore your credibility I suppose...

 

[Ace]

[Deleted]

Yeah, I think you made a mistake with this auction-retract-thing, but such flaming bashing is from the bottom of the deck! (especially from people not directly involved)
On the other side you should be true to your word. Back when I was active in the skill buying bussiness I miscalculated a price for some skills. But when I saw how much skills were on the chip actually I knew that I would make a loss of many, many PEDders. However, I bought the implant for the prearranged price.
I don't tell this story to show how honest and good I am. But I'm sure this guy still knows me, knows that I stick to my word, that's what reputation means.
However, 47 neg-reps for this one issue is heavy. Maybe you should appologize to the guy you "sold" the ep on EF, get a new ep, and then sell it to him for the arranged price? This would restore your credibility I suppose...

Yes, this would sove my problem with the buyer, but it wouldnt solve my problem with EF members

 

[Snakecharmer]

You really want us to believe that you are dumb enough not to expect a lot of bad rep if you host auctions here and then don't sell to the highest bidder ?

EF is not a binding auction.
.
Its accually not a big deal if someone in the end chooses to keep an iteam if he is not ready to sell it.

Wrong. If you host an auction you are expected to give the item to the highest bidder because that's what an auction is.
If you don't know what an auction is, that's not the fault of the people who bid.
And yes it is a big deal, hence the 47 neg reps.

Would it have helped if I in my orignial post would have said that I accually might remove my offers if the offers where not serious enuf?

Yes! Obviously it would have saved you a lot of trouble.

I dont support such a buissness because I know the buyer is not serious when he post such a bid.

And why should people support your business if you can't be trusted to live up to your promises?

So think over your behaviour mates!
- It's so sad to read the threads about you negrepping everyone.

No, you think over YOUR behaviour. People are not negrepping EVERYONE, they are negreppping YOU and for a good reason.

Just look at the comments in these threads:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46864
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46739

Everything that needs to be said about this matter has been said there.
You didn't learn the first time so why do you pretend that you want to learn now ?

 

[Witte]

plz dont start this again. I removed my offer since i got unserious bids, thats it.

What do you expect when you start a thread like this . BTW, like others say, its no problem to remove an offer. The point is that you have to inform others IN ADVANCE, and be fair about it. You obviously wernt. Thats all there is to it. No need to open a thread about it.

 

[Zilly]

Here by I apologise for making you get lots of -reps,

It wasn't my intention to make you the most unwanted person on this forum atm. The real intention of my post was to tell you how deeply dissapointed I am in you...

For me PE is a great thing, its not like those silly MORPG"s where you meet persons but don't know shit about them. In the almost 18 months I'm playing this game I met some wonderfull persons who earned my trust. I mail them and even skype them, like you would do with friends irl.

But you just damaged my trust in people and somehow I couldn't do nothing so I decided to explain my story and as all members who -rep'ed, they are sort of the judge and I think their opinion is clear for everyone

Sincerely,

Zilly

 

[Ace]

this is not realy the type of respond i want in this thread, I asked for advise but what comes is just more negative answears.

Snakehammer: No, you think over YOUR behaviour. People are not negrepping EVERYONE, they are negreppping YOU and for a good reason.

you mean because I dont want to support unserious offers in a sales thread
grow up: "good reason for negative response"
what i did wasnt right, but neighter was the offer, who is to blame ?

regards

 

[AmorJogo]

It's simple really.

If you plan to withdraw an item if the offers are too low, SAY SO right from the start.

If you want to reach a certain minimum price, either post a starting price, or accept the bid "RESERVE PRICE NOT MET," so that the bidder knows to raise the offer.
I think posting a starting price it the more honest way to go.

To pull an item after the auction has ended just because the price was too low will not enhance your reputation, or inspire others to trust you in future auctions.

True, if you mention a buyout and a starting bid, you are ALWAYS sure that you don't have to withdraw your items since you'll always get the money or EFD you are looking for...

It's as simple as that...

Greetz

 

[Ace]

Thx for you quote Zilly.
Although i can't believe what you got started here, it's amazing.

Regards

 

[Pirx Danford]

Ace the problem is that people got and get their trust constantly abused.
What you did was very bad and exactly one of the trust breaching things people despise so much.
That is why you got so many and so hot reactions.
(By the way quoting from a rep comment is against forum rules I believe.)

You already got a lot of good pointers from some people here,
but allow me to repeat it.
An unserious offer in an auction can not be defined by the auction starter by whim.
You have to set the rules at the start of the auction.
What you did was insulting and abusing Zilly and he even went about it in a fair manner.
The bad reputation in here is deserved by what you did.

So what you need to do is quite simply to be more honest.
If you forget to define a minimum price on auction then go ahead and apologize publicly to the winner and explain that you cannot afford losing 150 PED.
If you don't act like a dummy after making a mistake you will even gain respect.

If you still believe that what you did was right, then this whole story will repeat over and over again.

 

[Silver Ice]

In the future, if you start an auction on the forum and expect a minimum amount for the item, then list a minimum bid with the item being auctioned. If you don't list a minimum bid, it implies that you're going to sell the item to the highest bidder, even if that price is below the average market price for the item. It is unreasonable to expect people to know that you're expecting a minimum amount if you don't tell them so.

The offers made in your auction threads were serious offers. They were serious offers made by people who had no idea that you wanted a minimum price for your items. Those people now feel a little betrayed because you didn't honor thier serious bids. If you had let them know in advance that you wanted a minimum price, it may have saved some people a great deal of dissapointment, and your reputation

 

[Ace]

yes, im not saying that i think what was done was right, I just wanted to clearify that it accually was because I made the misstake to not put any minimum bids. ofc this opened up the situation for lowbidders and somehow i didnt get the right people into the thread at the specific time.

regards

 

[Witte]

yes, im not saying that i think what was done was right, I just wanted to clearify that it accually was because I made the misstake to not put any minimum bids. ofc this opened up the situation for lowbidders and somehow i didnt get the right people into the thread at the specific time.

regards

So, you also realize why you got all those negreps?

 

[Pirx Danford]

[content was taken to PM, sometimes thinking is in order before writing - argh]

 

[Vince Vaughn]

Dude, do you want us to hold your hand while you take a pee too? if you really want to try and repair your rep.. bite the bullet and sell the item to the guy who won the auction before you withdrew it.

 

[Witte]

Dude, do you want us to hold your hand while you take a pee too? if you really want to try and repair your rep.. bite the bullet and sell the item to the guy who won the auction before you withdrew it.

LOL at cocksock

 

[Dreganna]

you mean because I dont want to support unserious offers in a sales thread
grow up: "good reason for negative response"
what i did wasnt right, but neighter was the offer, who is to blame ?
regards

Ace, Your auction asking price was low and you didn't inform anyone that you had a reserve. In the business world in real life, as in EU, businessmen who are forthright in their dealings are accounted honest and trustworthy. When an unintended consequence happens because of a miscommunication, then the businessman takes his lumps, and makes things right - if possible. That is, if you want more business in the future. Try to flip the situation and put yourself in Zilly's shoes. If you saw an item you wanted that the auction was starting out lower than you'd see elsewhere, wouldn't you try to save a little money?

If you truly want to get back the trust of the EF members, keep hosting auctions here and tell us EVERYTHING about them. If you have a reserve price, tell us. If you reserve the right to withdrawal the auction after everything is over, tell us. If you are forthright, then it is the other people's problem. But by not stating your intentions up front, you took the reputation hit.

 

[Ciac]

I dont know the full in's and out's but you got + rep from me for simply explaining yourself and being honist.

Also in my opinion nobody deserves ANY level of abuse..

if you had done something to make me angry I'd just say so with none abusive language instead of just insults.

It's not constructive and has no place in society at all...

Lol - sorry just find that you contradict yourself a bit there with your sig xD

 

[Snakecharmer]

this is not realy the type of respond i want in this thread, I asked for advise but what comes is just more negative answears.
you mean because I dont want to support unserious offers in a sales thread
grow up: "good reason for negative response"
what i did wasnt right, but neighter was the offer, who is to blame ?
regards

Ok, because you really still don't seem to fully get it:
It was not a "sales thread", it was an auction.
If you say i want to sell ModFap and some dude offers you 50 peds you are well within your rights to tell him to get lost.
If you put something on auction without a minimum bid and without preserving the right to withdraw the item, then you will get neg rep if you don't give it to the highest bidder, it's as simple as that.

Just compare it with real life: if you place an add and say you sell a pair of used socks, you can still refuse to sell if you changed your mind, if you put it on ebay without minimum bid, you must give it to the highest bidder, else you will get neg rep there, too.

And as far as the advice goes: Get the items you auctioned and give them to the winners of the auction for the price they bid. And don't expect people to read your mind in the future, just ask a minimum price and reserve the right not to sell if you change your mind.

 

[BorgCymru]

Ok, because you really still don't seem to fully get it:
It was not a "sales thread", it was an auction.
If you say i want to sell ModFap and some dude offers you 50 peds you are well within your rights to tell him to get lost.
If you put something on auction without a minimum bid and without preserving the right to withdraw the item, then you will get neg rep if you don't give it to the highest bidder, it's as simple as that.

Says who ?

No contract is made or exists between people until money is paid over. If the seller wished not to sell then that is their right.

This is NOT an auction it is an offer to sell to someone who offers the amount the seller is willing to take.

The problem is when assume they have the right to buy even when the seller has said no such thing.

 

[Miller]

plz dont start this again. I removed my offer since i got unserious bids, thats it.

No, that's not "it", that's just what you're trying to say is "it".

You should have said at the beginning of your auction you would only accept offers over +whatever. You didn't do that though, so if you really didn't want to see your gun sell for such a low price you should have contacted Zilly honestly and explained to him that you expected more bids and you really can't afford to sell your gun for the bid he offered. I'm sure he would have been a lot more understanding if you'd have done that, but instead of being up front about it you were backhanded and deceitful. No one likes being deceived, and it's your dubious handling of the aftermath of the auction that's caused the shit to hit the fan as far as your rep is concerned.

As someone else said, the best way for you to get your honest reputation back is to bite the bullet and honour Zilly's bid as per the end of the auction.

 

[Snakecharmer]

Says who ?
No contract is made or exists between people until money is paid over. If the seller wished not to sell then that is their right.
This is NOT an auction it is an offer to sell to someone who offers the amount the seller is willing to take.

Sorry, this might be the case in West Wales and of course i don't know what people in West Wales think that an auction is.
Perhaps you could clarify that?
I was under the impression that in most countries auction means that people bid and the highest bidder wins the auction and gets the item?
Not so sure about the contract thing, there might be some countries where items actually need to be exchanged for a sale to be complete, although that seems highly impractical. However, we were talking about auctions on EF and in the past everybody here agreed that if you host an auction without any side rules, you give the item to the highest bidder.
If someone wants to do something else, like screw the highest bidder, kick him in the nuts or something, i respectfully ask them not to use the term auction for this kind of stuff to avoid misunderstandings...