Why space is working and how it could work better...

[John B Knight]

Looking back into mankinds history back to the long trade routes during the medieval age there were lots of dangers and enormous efforts needed to bridge those (back then) huge distances and this lead to high margins on the transported goods.
Often such wares were not avaiable within each of the trading countries except through those utilized trade routes.
As time went on and our ways of transportation got better and we were able to transport more and faster our margins started dropping.
More and more traders started aiming for those margins as trading became less and less of a hassle up to the point were it could be considered to be a comfy activity done straight from the computer online leading to goods from far away countries beating the prices of local wares just because of being produced cheaper from people who earn less.
In todays markets its all about dumping prices and countries supporting their own goods with lower taxes or other meassures to gain their companies an avantage on the global market.
As close as our world has grown and as good as our abilties to copy things from the competition have become it more or less leads to the point where loan dumping is the last lever to gain an advantage where its about providing a service more then about selling a product cause in our world the service and quality of service have become the product.

What can we learn from our history and present for the future of entropia ?

Entropia needs distance way more then it currently has.
Entropia needs endangered traderoutes and this danger potential needs to grow.
Entropia needs planetary currencies to allow less inhabited planets with a weaker economy to gain an advantage by being able to provide products and services relativly cheaper and on the other hand to make products that are standard on one planet something that is a luxury on another.
Different values in planetary currencies will create 'tourists' who travel from one planet to another because it is cheap for them to make 'vacation' there and affording the native 'services'.
Planets with weak economies will attract more players just because they are 'weak' - this will balance the universe in itself and create lots of movement due to relocation and the needs of transporting / importing luxury wares.
If space for example was a thousand times larger and it would take weeks to travel between planets on subwarp
and if warp speed wasnt instant but instead just a higher flightspeed
and if space had real enemies in it capable of looting players / damaging or destroying ships
and if space couldnt be surpassed by reviveteleporting
and if goods couldnt be transported when logged out but would get left behind on the last spacestation
then we might actually see alot more players 'working' on connecting economies
then we might actually see alot higher markups on some wares
then we might actually see a boost to new planets helping them growing into the universe
then we might actually experience a reinvigorated market on the established planets with an influx of lots of luxury wares from far away planets
then players might start telling tales of what is going on somewhere and how different life is on that other planet
then players might actually enjoy their 'vacations' and getting back to their home planet with lots of memories and discoveries/aquisitions.

Who doesnt love to go on vacation and life for a short time like he never could afford at home ?
And who doesnt love to join a hunt if a 'wealthy' player is sponsoring it so everyone can have fun ?


********************************************************************************************
Following all the current threads of complaining about space,
i offer to change your point of view and think for a moment and maybe see why
it could be for the better of the whole universe if everyone of us couldnt be everywhere all the time...


Please join in and get creative in how to improve the universe and please consider that disabling/surpassing content is not an improvement

 

[Solo4711]

Hello,

expanding space yes.

Warp gates like waypoints to create warp routes. Will move pvp from the planets to the gates to create more out of the sudden attacks.

Depending on the captain level even VTOL and quads could use them. Captains get pilot, space systems and computer skills so the access to more space technology could be justified.

More room in space could enable more non pvp out of the sudden events. Like exploring a asteroid with resources on or old spaceships which could be explored for old technology (warp drives etc.) Think I wrote some more detailed things in another thread. Would be nice if Mindark finally takes all ideas gets them worked through and present some new stuff in space.

Would also be interesting to know what they plan on a max number of planets. Jan Welter wrote once the planets be dependend from each others - the current statement about PPs was that PPs should come with a unique concept and not utilize the current playerbase... hm kind of twisted^^

Maybe they should enable PPs to really develope own concepts instead of just painting items another way.
All unique features are only exclusive for a planet until others can build them also... So what is here even possible for them to create something unique???

Dependend from each others sound like the mother drives the herds with pp vus to feed their children.
They should decide what they want to enable the planets to get healthy.

Cyrene wanted to full launch already to boost into a gaming fair. all i see now is normal pp vus with some blueprints. Players explore, fish the bps, take the items and fly off to where more population is to sell all the standart loot next to present their new toy

The next candidate to fall. Where are their story mission concepts? Where is their full launch?
I have the impression they had to soft launch because they need playerbase to step into the next level. Like all pp got to do... Can it be they thought that the hub will be more successful to get the numbers they needed for the full launch? Did Mindark create a too big construction yard with all that stuff to move on? Planet Toulan gets in this year jesus christ lol

Need healthy planets dont think they can live long cause Mindark allows them to have some ore needed on calypso...
Would be too easy and i dont think Mindark has money to give away. I can buy myself in for 2 Million and they take care. They can leave it and focus on complete calypso developement with a adventure space around. Did not work on Next Island though I always wonder why Next Island had no ore or crystals in the welding wire blueprints or space ship Si upgrades. Somehow they maybe sleept or have been to easy to handle and got overseen.

Healthy Planets create demand for space automatically but it would be better its constantly the case not every 2 month after a vu for a week or because planets have only a small use for loot and you can only deliver to calypso...

Rocktropia did a nice step worth a visit.

Tons of ideas on all forums - Where is the handbreak?

Currencies:
Cant imagine we ever see that.
Mindark ensures for 10 ped = 1 dollar. They would need to do this with any other currency also.
And that would open new doors for a currency dollar exploit.
That a currency ingame is more worth than another cant take place as it would enable players to deposit and buy dollars in form of the other planets currency and withdraw the other day. So withdrawing fee will be flexible. Withdrawing one currency will be more expensive than another steered by the ingame developement. Allthough a currency got a fix rate. Players on a planet can loose money cause another planet deflates them.

It is already possible when you live in the euro zone to do it they wont have it officially ingame.

Every new arrival can choose on what planet he starts. So the deposit center needs to be created in a way that a player can deposit into "his planets" currency to even be able to play as some maybe even plan to never travel.

Also the non deposit way must stay alive otherwise EU will lose the magic of "all is possible".

So we will see Mindark opens Mindbank ingame. Your currency exchange terminal. Exchange any currency into another. For a fee ofc. The fee will be flexible to even the difference in the currencies values to even so that the "dollar buy exploit" cant take place. Or the withdraw center gets you like described above.

I dont say that currencies work at all. They will only balance any profit from that out cause that dollar thing.

 

[Dave Stevens]

Now is NOT the time to be changing space. The other planets need to bed in a lot more before you make it more difficult to move between them.

Its also worth mentioning your vested interests (MS owner) in order to present a balanced view.

I'm not sure I see the enjoyment value in making it take even longer to get between the planets. Its long enough as it is...

 

[John B Knight]

Currencies:
Cant imagine we ever see that.
Mindark ensures for 10 ped = 1 dollar. They would need to do this with any other currency also.
And that would open new doors for a currency dollar exploit.
That a currency ingame is more worth than another cant take place as it would enable players to deposit and buy dollars in form of the other planets currency and withdraw the other day. So withdrawing fee will be flexible. Withdrawing one currency will be more expensive than another steered by the ingame developement. Allthough a currency got a fix rate. Players on a planet can loose money cause another planet deflates them.

It is already possible when you live in the euro zone to do it they wont have it officially ingame.

Every new arrival can choose on what planet he starts. So the deposit center needs to be created in a way that a player can deposit into "his planets" currency to even be able to play as some maybe even plan to never travel.

Also the non deposit way must stay alive otherwise EU will lose the magic of "all is possible".

So we will see Mindark opens Mindbank ingame. Your currency exchange terminal. Exchange any currency into another. For a fee ofc. The fee will be flexible to even the difference in the currencies values to even so that the "dollar buy exploit" cant take place. Or the withdraw center gets you like described above.

I dont say that currencies work at all. They will only balance any profit from that out cause that dollar thing.

In my opinion we already have different currencies within entropia depending on the exchange rate of the $ to the home currency of the respective player. So far this creates advantages and disadvantages within the playerbase. Players with a strong currency get more out of their gameplay then players with a weak currency.
My suggestion is just leveraging it to allow players to not only choose their level of gameplay by the ingame equipment but also by the planet they game on. There surely is a huge playerbase out there with home currencies that are weaker then the dollar whom are currently dicouraged to keep playing as they can not afford it, but they would bring lots of money in the universe due to participant numbers.
All that is needed to give such virtual separate economies a chance to grow within entropia is distance.

*Disclaimer: My above suggestions are for the universe as a whole - there is still the requirement for each planetpartner to provide a working system that includes all intended professions as well as ressources and crafting chains that make use of them and provide goods that benefit the local players as well as some goods that offer benefits to players on other planets.*

 

[billairboy]

Much of what you are saying are good thoughts, i have sometimes been thinking on the same issue.

First of all, it should be a big "warp free/not possible" zone around all planets were no warps should be possible. All ships should be forced to travel at least 3-5 min in "normal pvp space" before be able to make a warp jump from a planet, same thing when arriving to a planet. I also agree with you that the space should have some big NHC ships or mobs that could appear as and random event and attack the players, so not even the motherships could be safe.

Why do i like a more dangerous space? Just like the OP says, a dangerous space creates makes it more interesting and creates more opportunist for trade. If we have ships with warps that can jump instantly and safe between planets they get pretty much monopoly on the trade. If space is unsafe for everybody, we get a more equal situation where even smaller non-warp ships can compete in the trade.

But, in the same time i would too decrease the risk of the space travel and trade. I would like a system where you don't loose 100 % of your inventory, i would like a more random system where the looted loose only between 10 % -50 % of the stackables in the inventory.

A more dangerous space for everyone, but at the same time with a lower risk when you actually get looted, that my solution of a better space.

 

[Alainax]

Much of what you are saying are good thoughts, i have sometimes been thinking on the same issue.

First of all, it should be a big "warp free/not possible" zone around all planets were no warps should be possible. All ships should be forced to travel at least 3-5 min in "normal pvp space" before be able to make a warp jump from a planet, same thing when arriving to a planet. .

This is already the case. You must travel a few mins away from the space station before you can enable warp ( in pvp). If you do it too close, you recieve the message " warp close to a space station is not permitted"

Also you cant land warp in a space station, must also arrive just outside.

 

[Fifth]

Different values in planetary currencies will create 'tourists' who travel from one planet to another because it is cheap for them to make 'vacation' there and affording the native 'services'.
Planets with weak economies will attract more players just because they are 'weak' - this will balance the universe in itself /.../

Have been thinking about the problem of "weak planets" too. It's obvious there will always be stronger and weaker PP's.
Your concept seems to be the missing piece in the puzzle - this would make it perfect.

+rep

 

[Angel O2 Mercer]

Let's face it there's not enough people for one planet, let alone 5 or 6. Let's see how well the marketing does before trying to fill the gaps.

Good ideas btw.

 

[John B Knight]

Let's face it there's not enough people for one planet, let alone 5 or 6. Let's see how well the marketing does before trying to fill the gaps.

Good ideas btw.

This is where you have to think the other way round Angel, its not up to mindark to promote and bring in new players - they are the platform provider. Its about the planetpartners to make their planets appeal and promote them to bring in new gamers. A larger distance will put more effort on traveling and people will prepare more for their travels this will actually support players to stay with the planet they choose to start out with and allow other planets to grow their own economies. Those weaker planets will become more interesting to those players who currently have a hard time keeping up their playstyle on one of the more 'expensive' planets and who might love to choose a cheaper level of gameplay even if that means to have less when hitting big due to a weaker local currency.
I often hear the argument that there is not enough people for a specific planet but that is not the reason for an not working economy it is just merely the effect. It all comes down to the planetpartner and the depth of the economical system that he designed in regards to how many players are needed to make it work.
A freshly starting out planet is bound to choose a small fast cycling economy and expand on it towards a more complex economy as population and activity grows. Balance is important to make the system work for exactly the amount of players that are 'working' in it.

*Update: In my opinion there should be a balance monitor for each planet tracking the level of 'employment' of its inhabitants and a balancing team specifically with the goal to bring as many players as possible into 'employment'. What is a major goal in the real world should be one in the virtual world as well.*

 

[Shard-Angel]

Space should be PVP. It is good for planets to grow on their own. BUT... we should all be given the RIGHT SET OF TOOLS to work with this set of rules.

I have said it before, and I will (should devs be reading) say it again: Space needs CUSTOMIZABLE ships:


And custom loadouts:

[ARMAMENTS]




[EQUIPMENT]




Shooting a non-air breathing BIO-ORGANISM space mob is not considered "space content". It is a copy-paste of any land mob - it does not need brains. I don't know WHY our community is content with stupid "updates" where only MA is patting themselves on their "creative" backs.

 

[billairboy]

This is already the case. You must travel a few mins away from the space station before you can enable warp ( in pvp). If you do it too close, you recieve the message " warp close to a space station is not permitted"

Also you cant land warp in a space station, must also arrive just outside.

Aha, okey, didn't know that

 

[billairboy]

I have said it before, and I will (should devs be reading) say it again: Space needs CUSTOMIZABLE ships:

I think that's the goal that MA have too, to have more customizable ships and vehicles. But it will probably be small steps, and will never be the same as other more space only focused games.

 

[Farmer Smurf]

EU at its core is a video game. as such I think any changes to space should be designed to provide the player's with enjoyment and/or "instant gratification", instead of hassle and fear.

OR instead of getting players 'working' on connecting economies, you get players leaving the game.

 

[Huskie]

Looking back into mankinds history back to the long trade routes during the medieval age there were lots of dangers and enormous efforts needed to bridge those (back then) huge distances and this lead to high margins on the transported goods.
Often such wares were not avaiable within each of the trading countries except through those utilized trade routes.
As time went on and our ways of transportation got better and we were able to transport more and faster our margins started dropping.
More and more traders started aiming for those margins as trading became less and less of a hassle up to the point were it could be considered to be a comfy activity done straight from the computer online leading to goods from far away countries beating the prices of local wares just because of being produced cheaper from people who earn less.
In todays markets its all about dumping prices and countries supporting their own goods with lower taxes or other meassures to gain their companies an avantage on the global market.
As close as our world has grown and as good as our abilties to copy things from the competition have become it more or less leads to the point where loan dumping is the last lever to gain an advantage where its about providing a service more then about selling a product cause in our world the service and quality of service have become the product.

What can we learn from our history and present for the future of entropia ?

Entropia needs distance way more then it currently has.
Entropia needs endangered traderoutes and this danger potential needs to grow.
Entropia needs planetary currencies to allow less inhabited planets with a weaker economy to gain an advantage by being able to provide products and services relativly cheaper and on the other hand to make products that are standard on one planet something that is a luxury on another.
Different values in planetary currencies will create 'tourists' who travel from one planet to another because it is cheap for them to make 'vacation' there and affording the native 'services'.
Planets with weak economies will attract more players just because they are 'weak' - this will balance the universe in itself and create lots of movement due to relocation and the needs of transporting / importing luxury wares.
If space for example was a thousand times larger and it would take weeks to travel between planets on subwarp
and if warp speed wasnt instant but instead just a higher flightspeed
and if space had real enemies in it capable of looting players / damaging or destroying ships
and if space couldnt be surpassed by reviveteleporting
and if goods couldnt be transported when logged out but would get left behind on the last spacestation
then we might actually see alot more players 'working' on connecting economies
then we might actually see alot higher markups on some wares
then we might actually see a boost to new planets helping them growing into the universe
then we might actually experience a reinvigorated market on the established planets with an influx of lots of luxury wares from far away planets
then players might start telling tales of what is going on somewhere and how different life is on that other planet
then players might actually enjoy their 'vacations' and getting back to their home planet with lots of memories and discoveries/aquisitions.

Who doesnt love to go on vacation and life for a short time like he never could afford at home ?
And who doesnt love to join a hunt if a 'wealthy' player is sponsoring it so everyone can have fun ?


********************************************************************************************
Following all the current threads of complaining about space,
i offer to change your point of view and think for a moment and maybe see why
it could be for the better of the whole universe if everyone of us couldnt be everywhere all the time...


Please join in and get creative in how to improve the universe and please consider that disabling/surpassing content is not an improvement

And then EU would feel (even) more like work, than a game for entertainment.

Also, what has pretty much killed the good ol' "feeling" this game had since VU10 is that the game's playable area has multiplied by many many times, whereas the playerbase shrunk, and pretty much everywhere you go now feels dead and devoid of players, while in old EU (PE, if you prefer) you'd run into people at even the most remote locations, making the game feel vibrant, alive and greatly boosting the social aspect and MMO feel of the game.

VU10 increased the area of Calypso's continents, which already significantly dilluted player distribution, because many couldn't even run EU with it's new graphics engine anymore. Then came space and other planets, diluting everything even further, because the new planets didn't even remotely bring in enough new blood to compensate for the increased game area they added, making the game feel even more empty.

In that context alone (I won't even go into how boring or daunting for casual players it would be) expanding space's size twice (let alone by one thousand!) would already be very detrimental to the game.

 

[minim]

Space should be PVP. It is good for planets to grow on their own. BUT... we should all be given the RIGHT SET OF TOOLS to work with this set of rules.

I have said it before, and I will (should devs be reading) say it again: Space needs CUSTOMIZABLE ships:


And custom loadouts:

[ARMAMENTS]




[EQUIPMENT]




Shooting a non-air breathing BIO-ORGANISM space mob is not considered "space content". It is a copy-paste of any land mob - it does not need brains. I don't know WHY our community is content with stupid "updates" where only MA is patting themselves on their "creative" backs.

Wouldn't it be easier to just play EVE online and remove the space hassle for 90% of the players that don't want it?

 

[Shard-Angel]

Space should be expanded, and distances should be increased to hours of travel - so Motherships become a lifeline. We need more traders/haulers and "courier"/caravan ships so people can forge actual trade routes across the hundreds of new PP's EU can potentially support. And space MUST always be PvP. But we need the right tools for it.

Wouldn't it be easier to just play EVE online and remove the space hassle for 90% of the players that don't want it?

THIS is OUR universe. We live it, and breathe it - and have done so for nearly a decade now.

To strive to improve it should be the goal - not to stagnate and stale over the years.

MA has said something along the lines of: "Space will be so big and full of content that players may NEVER even land on planets." (I cannot find that quote now... can anyone locate that interview? Mastermesh?) Estimated timeline was 2012 (Along with return of taming).

Now re-skinning land mobs and throwing them at random places in space is NOT considered space content. Aiming for a REALISTIC SPACE FARING SCI-FI universe is the only logical step forward. (This is not d20 Dungeons and Dragons after all!)

Re-skinning and copy-paste is NOT what EU needs more of. We have motherships and warps and intercepters already - lets bring on the next sci-fi technological golden age of space with custom ships and equipment (think of the multi-million peds of decay, Mindark!).

 

[Sakuba]

I have heard it said
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."​

It seems to me that this is very true.
Part A
The Future of Space​

1. I do not believe that there will ever come a time when a Participant is forced to travel from one planet to another and be at risk of losing their "Stackables" to a Pirate/PVPer. It is my belief that there will always be provided a means of transporting goods from one planet to another and have an absolute 0% risk.

Whether this is achieved by large expansions of space and safe trade routes for small slower transport vessels, or the current system of being able to log off on the existing and possibly future warp capable ships is yet to be seen.

2. Future expansions of space is pretty much a given. When this will happen is the question; Patience is the answer.

A) For those who have not taken the time to notice almost every vehicle has a fuel gauge. The only ones that do not that I know of are all Warp capable ships, Quadwings, and the Dragonfly. (There may be one or two others.) These "Fuel Gauges" have ten (10) bars. Each bar represents ten (10) cans of oil. If you put in 100 cans of oil you will see that as you use or add fuel (without exceeding 100 cans) this fuel gauge actually operates. Does this mean smaller vehicles will not be able to make a trip on their own from planet to planet, simply because they cannot hold enough fuel?

B) In addition to this if you take the time to look around on a Mothership, you will notice that they have six (6) very large refueling stations. Five (5) in Room Four (4) and one (1) in Room Two (2) of the storage compartments under the Hangar Bay. The last time I checked, slow-boating (Sub-Warp Speed) from Calypso to Rocktropia and back, total cost of fuel was less than one (1) PED. Does this mean the future of Motherships is simply to be refueling stations for smaller vessels?

Consider:

1) If the distance between Planets were to be doubled…
2) If limitations were placed on how much fuel a vehicle’s fuel tank could hold…
3) If flights become long and tedious along "Secure Trade Routes"
4) If the ability to log off on Warp Ships is made unavailable to passengers…

These thoughts raise the question: Is this the direction that MindArk is planning to take "Space”? If so, is it a good change for players?

Yet another aspect has been suggested in discussion with several people that the "Cryogenic Chambers" in what appears to be the "Crews Quarters" of the Mothership could be made functional. This could possibly provide a safe secure means of transporting a certain amount of goods quickly from one planet to another at additional costs for accessing them.

EDIT:
Please Note: Currently changes of this type would most likely onlly benifit Warp Ship Owners like myself. I do not believe that we are ready for such drastic changes or impleentations. It is my contention that we need a much larger and stable Player Base before such measures should be considered.

 

[Sakuba]

I have heard it said
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."​

It seems to me that this is very true.
Part B
The Economic Monetary Systems of Indivdual Planets​

It seems that already, several of the Planet Partners are experimenting with ways to create their own "Planets Monetary and Trading Systems" to improve their individual economic status.

The foremost leader in this appears to be Arkadia with Arkoins, with one Arkoin being equivalent in value to one PEC.

Calypso with "Mission Tokens" - these may leave something to be desired.

Cyrene with "Mission Tokens" - not unlike the system implemented on Calypso.

As for the other Planets, I am not sure off-hand what they are doing. I apologize if I have left out their attempts, if any.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I believe that Arkadia is possibly on the right track with their Arkoins. I think the next obvious steps would be:

1. Arkard. Similar to a PED Card, your Arkoins would be used on this item. USD deposits could have the option of being made in PEDs or Arkoins. Equivalent monetary types and cards could be implemented for each individual Planet.

2. Planet defined Auctions, Trade Terminal and Repair Stations. This would also encompass Technicians, Shops and Shopkeepers. All trading, through any of these, is to be done with the local or Planet Monetary System/Type.

IF:
0.01 PED = 0.01 Arkoin = 0.01 Rocktropian Dollar = 0.01 Cyrene Dollar = 0.01 Next Island Dollar etc. etc...

Very little may need to be changed on Market Values with the MU and Sales System currently in place. If currency Trading was not allowed on the Auctions then it would be the Players/Participants who would totally determine the Trade Values of one currency to another.

Perhaps I am wrong, but it is my belief that implementing this kind of system would not only help to establish each Planets Economy but also aid in stabilizing and strengthening them.

 

[forgo]

I can appreciate and respect the views you have here. I wouldn't think though, that it would be in the best interests of anyone who travels, including the MS owners...for a bit yet. Space is just in its infancy still, as are the other planets.

If for example the ad campaign brought in a sizable base, then MS owners could probably get a better /faster return by the increasing volume, without diluting that return with longer times to destination.

I do agree on the danger, I think it should be like old TP runs, many areas you need to navigate through or around, and if not possible, hunt your way out.

Anyone on a time constraint will just want it fast, if it isn't, they may not bother. It already can be a task to manage a 30 minute or more trip for many.

Interstellar traders depend on the convenience to move goods. Which in my opinion at these stages should be promoted, any economy boosters are good. Make space travel longer, and you may have a bunch of NI's.

I know many who just don't go to NI since its so far out or takes too much time finding flights, or flying to/from.
Only takes a day to be stuck somewhere to realize the places where that is uncommon are better in so many ways.

Since you owners started making flights, those places have a few more visitors, who can rely on a ride back at a given time, which is great.
Those services help boost the economies faster, more reliably. I watch them all pretty close, and over the year its gotten better overall, due to these services you guys built and provide.

If universal economy all became stable with a larger player base, the options here would be be worth looking into for sure, if not necessary. I just don't see it at that point of need yet, myself.


The design and vision of this game is nowhere close to a game completely built upon space, and I doubt it ever ever would be close. A ton of great ideas for them to look at from EVE though, regarding space. Customization would be great, society ship skins, maybe even endorsements/ ads ect. , so many possibilities.

 

[Sakuba]

Thanks forgo.
It seems as I was putting up my "EDIT" you were also posting your reply. I had considered most of what you had said early in the prosess of making my long winded speach and meant to point that out in the original post.

Thank you for taking the time to read it and I apologise for ommitting my thoughts on these kinds of implementations in the first place.

 

[Thorns Rose]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh Walls of text..Bottom line me!!!..love safety and ASI!

 

[Sakuba]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh Walls of text..Bottom line me!!!..love safety and ASI!

Absolutely agree.
Undeniable fact.
Almost unsurmoutable.

Some would consider this some of the usual dung. This being said, for the most part it is well done. The majority of what has been said in this thread, thus far has been worth the tedious effort to take the time to read.

Even I almost passed over it when I first looked at it.However after struggling through it I added my own walls of text. Sorry.

I hope you and others take the time to read it.

 

[Alainax]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh Walls of text..Bottom line me!!!..love safety and ASI!

great for a slow day in the office

Its so nice to read a positive thread about space, far too much negativity out there


Dont worry huni, we will always keep you safe
Now you have us debating in Soc chat what ASI is.... you dont want to know what max thinks

 

[Max EJ]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh Walls of text..Bottom line me!!!..love safety and ASI!

Alaina gives you safty the love is from me

Anyway, what's ASI?

 

[John B Knight]

Please dont mix the needs for a more dangerous universe (to make space more challenging and exciting and allow an complete space experience like pointed out by shard-angel and promised by mindark) with the avaiabilty of secure passenger transports. However dangerous mindark might make space they have already put the tools ingame for interstellar transport providers to create a safe customer experience.
It is very clear that the abiltiy to upgrade spacecrafts to make them more secure is an intended way of enabling players to 'work' on improving the service they can provide by making use of ressources and increasing the markup of those ressources that way - giving miners a better overall return after mu.
When space gets expanded further to a degree where you wont jump between several planets on one evening anymore but rely on the effort of many others to transport either yourself or your goods or both to the place you want them to be then we have a true separation of economies that gives a real meaning to the trading profession.
Maybe players will be able to create 'packages' that can be insured and handed over to traders who have no access to whats in the package but can only move it to another place and when the 'package' reaches that place it for example could be sold remotely to another trader to put it on auction or shops or it could wait in a warehouse till the originator arrives on that planet himself to do whatever he wants to do with whats inside the 'package'.
Lots of possibilities for more professions and jobs would come along with this:
- Banks that could insure wares and would make their insurance fees depending on the choosen transport provider and its documented success rating.
- a real meaningfull trader profession that goes beyond just collecting small amounts of goods or just reselling in the same place but actually also caring to move wares successfully between planets.
- spacecrew as a real profession in itself due to really living onboard

Many people who want to be quick on another planet seem to forget that space with lots of far out spacestations, asteroids for mining, space landareas to claim and fight for as well as enemy robot fleets or even non-player pirate clans can be a full all out game experience in itself and that such far out spacestations might just as well offer biodomes and marketplaces with inhabitants who might need goods transported to them or offer missions to explorers/hunters/miners.
We shouldnt watch space as an delayed teleporter but as a real immersive part of the game and aim to make it interesting and rewarding for those who choose to experience it.
Provided distances are far enough i could just as well imagine interstellar 'trade ships' which have been reconfigured to contain an own marketplace onboard to travel between planets and planetside traders comming onboard when those ships dock to aquire the goods needed on that planet. Commissioned trading would be the next step.

Some of you were concerned to use the word 'work' but wheter someone hunts, mines, crafts, trades or delivers a service within entropia universe this all is 'work' and to enrich this experience is what offer players choice in which 'work' one has most fun.

 

[Alainax]

We shouldnt watch space as an delayed teleporter but as a real immersive part of the game and aim to make it interesting and rewarding for those who choose to experience it.

I really like this view point

I think the great thing about space is the infintate possibilities it posseses. Its great to read from the posts here so far all the different ideas and challenges. I really look forward to what exciting developmetns will come

 

[*Electro*]

I agree with you John. Besides an implementation of space with that mindset is anyway what EU should be aiming to in my opinion, be it for space or other ingame planet features. BTW looks like your thread gets the attention of jackals.

 

[GeneralGrievous]

I agree with the plain fact that space needs to have more to offer, after all there are those that wish to make space their home. Firstly we need ideas, then MA needs to listen to them.

However, it is my understanding that space is currently an MA territory, meaning that all revenues go direct to MA (i could be wrong on this point, and would like to know more). If that is the case, then it would seem to be a conflict of interest for MA to attract players away from planets and into space. After all it is in MA's interests to have successful planet partners first and foremost, which can only realistically be achieved with a sizable player base that like what the planet partners are providing. So to further develop space would effectively damage the planets in the game, unless the development did not in any way encourage players to spend more time in space and less time on the planets. This could be over come by MA making space a profit share that is split between the planet partners and MA (MA's share would pay for their time and effort put into developing space).

Higher markups would attract more players, I'm sure of that. Although, if those markups where just to offset a higher cost for safe space travel then it would effectively null the benefit of the higher markups.

Providing slow but safe trade routes seems like a suitable idea, but it would also put players who could be trading and spending ped in the game in a limbo state for the long time it would take to reach their destination, in a way removing them from the game for a period. I for one would not stare at seemingly endless space as it is boring and not fun as a game should be. I would however have the option of traveling on a warp capable ship for a price, which I am willing to pay for and already do.

Making space more dangerous and removing the 'log-off' feature in space would put the ability to travel safely through space in the hands of a few people with ships capable of 'tanking' their way through the danger either with high structural integrity or a suitable repair crew. This is a bad idea, 'why?' I hear you ask... Well, to place what is an essential service in the hands of a few would reduce competition and then what comes with reduced competition... of course its higher prices. Allowing a few to control safe transport without competition could end in disaster for the whole game (okay, probably not, but I did say 'could'). It could (note I said 'could' again) put markets in jeopardy, as the higher prices from the unbalanced, non-competitive safe warp travel services would probably put prices or markups up (the desired effect), but only to feed the few that are capable of providing the service, as I said before it would (the definitive version) effectively null the benefit from higher markups. Great power in the hands of a few... not clever.

Currently space is just a semi-dangerous gap between planets with a little bit of hunting thrown in. Whilst it is an MA territory I don't see how it can become much more without damaging the planet partners. This is an obstacle MA needs to look at (if it is in fact the case that the revenues go direct to MA and only MA). I want space to be more, just like many others, but I'm sure MA know more than most that it needs to be done right.

Kind regards to all

GBH

 

[Fifth]

... instead of getting players 'working' on connecting economies, you get players leaving the game.

Space is making people leave EU?
So, you like your planet (any planet), you are happy with the features/gameplay there and then suddenly you decide to leave the game because of Space?

Yea right...

Truth is, in the grand scheme of things Space at it's current state is just an unimportant detail. If you don't like it for whatever reason, you can simply ignore it - either simply by not leaving your planet or by bypassing it entirely.

No, there's multitude of other reasons, every single one more important by a magnitude, that (could) make people leave the game.

 

[Xane]

Space is making people leave EU?
So, you like your planet (any planet), you are happy with the features/gameplay there and then suddenly you decide to leave the game because of Space?

Yea right...

Truth is, in the grand scheme of things Space at it's current state is just an unimportant detail. If you don't like it for whatever reason, you can simply ignore it - either simply by not leaving your planet or by bypassing it entirely.

No, there's multitude of other reasons, every single one more important by a magnitude, that (could) make people leave the game.

No fifth you're missing the point, space is EU's El Niño!