***WoF 2010 Suggestions and Stuff***

Dark Cat

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If everyone cooperates this also will be simple and screen shots will be critical to include names of the team members.

I like the whole idea you have going on in that post there, but that little bit above is the most critical part, and I can't think why it didn't occur to me before.

In previous years, screenshots of the globals didn't need to be from the team that got it, just from anyone at all who saw it in global chat. This was the organisers main reason for not being able to police it.

If the whole team had to pre-register, and only those people registered would be allowed to take part, it would be easy to police this if it was mandatory for the team-leader of each team in a country to get a screenshot each time they globaled/HoF'd. The names in the team would be right there and could be compared easily to the actual sign-ups - the judges wouldn't even need to do that, because the other country that country was playing would obviously be eager to check that up to make sure they weren't cheating.

Of course, some would complain it would be an end to alliances and back-scratching, but to me it feels like more people would prefer that.
I think the general idea needs some refining, but to me, it sounds like you have a very valid and plausable idea for a way of doing this the way it should be done. +rep.
 

Wildman Alpha

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I like the whole idea you have going on in that post there, but that little bit above is the most critical part, and I can't think why it didn't occur to me before.

In previous years, screenshots of the globals didn't need to be from the team that got it, just from anyone at all who saw it in global chat. This was the organisers main reason for not being able to police it.

If the whole team had to pre-register, and only those people registered would be allowed to take part, it would be easy to police this if it was mandatory for the team-leader of each team in a country to get a screenshot each time they globaled/HoF'd. The names in the team would be right there and could be compared easily to the actual sign-ups - the judges wouldn't even need to do that, because the other country that country was playing would obviously be eager to check that up to make sure they weren't cheating.

Of course, some would complain it would be an end to alliances and back-scratching, but to me it feels like more people would prefer that.
I think the general idea needs some refining, but to me, it sounds like you have a very valid and plausable idea for a way of doing this the way it should be done. +rep.

You got my point exactly. Their would hardly need to be judges if it was conducted like I posted or similar as the other teams will be checking themselves to ensure rules were not broken. If this was a rule in the event.

Alliances would only come from the 1st 3 rounds of eliminations after that their locked in.
 

jjmatrix

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If you hunted for multiple teams you cheated. By Alliance are you refering to LG or WoF?

As I stated above I think USA Support had many players as well that wasn't with us through out the season. So if they came just to help USA at the end and played for other teams through the season then YES "Star" as well as myself since we were on the same main team are guilty as well.

If team integrity isn't included on WoF this coming year I just can't join it as I don't see a point. It is advertised as team vs team/ Country vs Country support the team you started for don't team hop to influence the outcomes. I can't be a part of an event that will start as a team and finish with a blend of teams as one. Keep some integrity to the teams I will police up the support teams myself if need be based on similar rules I posted above you have a judge that just volunteered. Team integrity is my only request for a change other than that awesome event if loots suck hey that is EU can't complain there we all know loots suck prior to joining the event. Seems 90% are complaining about loots in many other threads keep it in the other threads not in a WoF thread. Either your in or your out of WoF loots shouldn't be a factor in determining if you play or not. Your in WoF for the pride of playing for your country/named team!!! For me when we blend teams towards the end that pride is gone so what is left? Why bother to play if it will just be like that is my point?

You seem to imply that were written competition rules that someone broke; I simply don't understand why are keep saying that we were cheating.
I see your point in trying to change things in the upcoming WoF because you didn't like how the previous one went (as per your post earlier that this is not about loosing, I won't comment on that)... but please stop using the wrong words.
Now, as a last argument that I really don't like to use... this a competition created solely by Hurricane, based on his rules; I'm sure things will change a bit next year as I'm sure he's reading all these comments, but until then... it is what it is. When you agreed to enter WoF you knew the rules; you don't like them... it's simple.

Don't get me wrong... I hate seeing good players (that includes you) getting out; I stated the above just because it seems as fair conclusion, to me anyways.

On another hand, any rule stating that you should only fight for one country can only be accepted if you fight for your own country (this is where the pride part comes in); however, this is impossible to enforce.

PS My comment about Star and the Alliance was indeed referring to the LG. No rules broken... yet many accused the whole group of cheating, which is not right.
 

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Support teams can be policed up, maybe not during the event but when screen shots are produced the team names can be checked against registered support members. Suggested rule changes as follows;

Stage 1-3 Rules;
Simple and sweet to begin with to give players freedom to choose the right team. This will also give them a chance to hunt for as many teams as they choose as well as choose one that has a chance in the finals.

1. Players can move about and support whatever main team they choose until the conclusion of stage 3.
2. At the conclusion of stage 3 they must register in forums as a support member of the team they chose this must be completed prior to the start of stage 4.

3. team names can be made anything they want as long as it fits the WoF format and clearly states what country/team your supporting.


Stage 4-6 Rules;
If everyone cooperates this also will be simple and screen shots will be critical to include names of the team members.

1. Support team captain will post in forum all registered support players consolidated into one post (completed prior to the start of stage 4).

2. If support member isn't registered on a support team by the start of Stage 4 all screen shots and points that the individual support team the member hunted with will not be counted.

3. Support teams will make a team of 12 before starting another support team this will help ensure all members names are visible on that support team and cut down on the number of Pics that will need screened by judges(they don't have to hunt as a team of 12, just be listed on the same team).

4. If there is a short team (meaning the numbers on support team are not multiples of 12) there should only be 1 short team. Unless there is a case such as a 37 member support team one team will have to be 11 and the other team 2 or a balance of 6 and 7 on each team.

5. If a member leaves the hunt early keep his name listed the team is now 11 on that team to continue the match. If a player shows up late they can join the team that had a player drop or join the team that was short from the start.

6. Support names can be anything with-in the WoF format.

This format will make the support teams captain position a more valuable one as he will have to lead and coordinate all of this for his support teams. Some notable reasons why a format like this will work;
This gives players a chance to test multiple teams prior to choosing one to support.
Judging doesn't come into play until there are 12 teams left to cut down on the number of screen pics to decipher.
Team integrity will be maintained for the final 12 teams.
If 24 teams were registered that leaves 12 teams worth of players that the remaining 12 teams can recruit. This will help keep up the number of support players throughout the event.

Just a little suggestion food for thought,, any input to it :scratch2:

The WoF lasts roughly four months. There's a full weekend of hunts every two weeks. Checking and veryfying and posting the scores and info as they come in takes several days each time. What you are suggesting would take even longer.

While I appreciate the concerns of those who dislike the use of mercenaries, and will go some way to clarify the WoF's position on that with the 2010 Rules, I will not be registering every support team in the near or foreseeable future. The event is complicated enough, when the idea is to turn up and have a laugh, (competitively), whoever you are.

Hurrikane
 

DurakJung

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That would work.... however (comma... pause for effect....) that would require a LOT more judges. More often than not, it was:

Hurrikane
Chopper
Jamira
Spike
Lee
Mack
Me

Oleg and Jimmy B helped out when they could. Team Australia started having their own rep join us toward the end of the tournament (a great idea IMO).

Have you judged a WoF match?

I have enough trouble just taking my own screen shots. :)

A lot has been said regarding the support 2009 WoF.

Support may have had some bearing on the final results however the main criteria for points is also how lucky a team is on that hunt.

When the Aussies were knocked out we had heaps of support that night but lootus was not with us.

No globals no points.

Re the post above not many people to run an event as large as WoF and a few want to burden them with more work.

At the moment WoF is for Uber and Noob alike.

As far as I am concerned and many others I have spoken too love WoF the way it was in 2009.

This is a virtual world and RL principles hopefully guide ones actions ingame but this is not a RL situation.

The structure of the EU society where ppl belong to societies that are multi national put a slightly different outlook on the

'Town & Country' concept.

The support cap is enough control.

So Hurrikane and crew please!!! dont get rid of all us that are happy to just be there. :D

Jung

Doing it that way sounds incredibly long-winded and tedious to me. Can't we just go shoot some mobs?

Never a truer statement
 

Wildman Alpha

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Ok I give it is clear improvements are not in the future for WoF. Note I did volunteer my services to judge the support teams so no extra work on the event organizers is needed. You would judge as normal.

If it isn't policed up I go this route;

Mercinary for Hire!
Will support fap any main team or soften mobs!
Fee; ammo/decay ;)

Pm me for hire!
 

Pirx Danford

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Ok I give it is clear improvements are not in the future for WoF. Note I did volunteer my services to judge the support teams so no extra work on the event organizers is needed. You would judge as normal.

Why don't you help as judge to get experience of the current process anyway?
To develop abstract ideas about rules is easy, but you should never dismiss hands on experience.
Also its a great service to the community to help the event this way.
 

Butch C

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Now, as a last argument that I really don't like to use... this a competition created solely by Hurricane, based on his rules; I'm sure things will change a bit next year as I'm sure he's reading all these comments, but until then... it is what it is. When you agreed to enter WoF you knew the rules; you don't like them... it's simple.

Its a WOF 2010 suggestion thread :) he is making suggestions.

good ones i might add.
 

Wildman Alpha

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Why don't you help as judge to get experience of the current process anyway?
To develop abstract ideas about rules is easy, but you should never dismiss hands on experience.
Also its a great service to the community to help the event this way.

I offered services to judge the additions I was proposing. I also had pride in supporting the team I was on last year and would like to continue that pride is why I am fighting so hard for change. I have a better idea in mind thread to follow closer to WoF. I will prove that the system is broke and changes are required if I do what I am planning :evilking:

Until then I offered suggestions and was told basically stuff you the rules are the rules if you don't like it don't compete, as posted above, why host this thread then if WoF is perfect and no changes are needed?

What should happen and what will happen are 2 different things I keep hearing the same excuse over and over. My proposal would have consisted of 1 week of the support team captain listing his final names for support teams. 3 Weeks of pics from support teams (12 teams 1 week, 6 the next then 3 for finals) posted so everyone can see (judged by myself to ensure the players in the picks are legal players). THAT IS IT!

Where is the extra work on the WoF current staffing? It is hosted just the same as you would every year. You would score main team and support team the same. The only time their would be an issue is if I notified a scoring judge that one of the support teams scores didn't count due to a player that wasn't registered showing up in the pics (-30 points) and it is done.
 

Rayne Jade

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I offered services to judge the additions I was proposing. I also had pride in supporting the team I was on last year and would like to continue that pride is why I am fighting so hard for change. I have a better idea in mind thread to follow closer to WoF. I will prove that the system is broke and changes are required if I do what I am planning :evilking:...

It sounds as if you are saying that unless your suggestion is adopted, your mission is to show everyone that the WoF is broke and you will be happy to do so. I hope I am reading that wrong... but is that the case?
 

MilkeN

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Some contrys do have many players in this game. What will happen the day when whey splitt support teams in to 2-5 other WoF teams ?

It was a big alliance that did break LG, what will happens if 1-3 contrys off friends do join WoF whit 5-7 teams. At some point there will be people that think it will be a fun thing to do, see if they can met themselft in a final...

Will you then think about a rule change then... ?


It's not the normal support that is the problem... the problem is the main team supportshoters in the finals. That is a thing that is easy to police whit main team players can not support other contrys in anyway or just have a 3-5k HP mof in the final and use the ~15k HP mobs in the round before.
 

Wildman Alpha

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Some contrys do have many players in this game. What will happen the day when whey splitt support teams in to 2-5 other WoF teams ?

It was a big alliance that did break LG, what will happens if 1-3 contrys off friends do join WoF whit 5-7 teams. At some point there will be people that think it will be a fun thing to do, see if they can met themselft in a final...

Will you then think about a rule change then... ?


It's not the normal support that is the problem... the problem is the main team supportshoters in the finals. That is a thing that is easy to police whit main team players can not support other contrys in anyway or just have a 3-5k HP mof in the final and use the ~15k HP mobs in the round before.

I agree there as well.

No not saying I am out to ruin it nor do I expect what I posted to be adopted as a rule.. This is a suggestion thread and I laid it out as well as I can here. It is a concern of mine and what will keep me from playing next year if something isn't in place to keep mercinarys down. If it isn't I might still play but for who is the question, no sence taking pride in just one team as it seems others don't.
 

falkao

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not sure if this has been already addressed, but are there intentions to evaluated the value of the global as well?

Atm a global per mob has a specific number of points assigned. However, there is quite a difference between getting a 50 Pedder or a 200 one. All this leads to the uncomfortable situation that one team might get 3 globals with a value of 50 whereas the other did get only one but with a value of 200. To get the latter one is quite rare, but the team is penalized in getting the points of only one global.

Hence, when further adjusting for value the second team should get the points of 4 globals and not only one. This would make the competition less random. The team doing more kills is still the one with best chances and there is still luck factor.

Would be interesting to see how this changes rankings of old WOFs.
 

Kamarkos Danix

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The reason they do that in the Champions League is purely to protect the big teams.

If Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan and Manchester United all got drawn together in the first group stage, there would be fewer big teams in the later stages and UEFA would be terrified of a dent in the billions of dollars received from TV money, sponsorship, merchandising etc. Since they and the clubs are obsessed with raking in as much cash as possible, they make sure that doesn't happen.

It's a biased and unfair system which results in the smaller teams get screwed.

@ DarkCat: I didn't know that, i thought it was done randomly

Which is exactly why I suggested the exact opposite earlier in the thread :)

ok...

i just suggested it because i just try to find balance.


but it's possible to find balance in another way.

The big teams in some groups, and small teams in anothers.

that'ld be balanced till the second qualifying group.
 

Wildman Alpha

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not sure if this has been already addressed, but are there intentions to evaluated the value of the global as well?

Atm a global per mob has a specific number of points assigned. However, there is quite a difference between getting a 50 Pedder or a 200 one. All this leads to the uncomfortable situation that one team might get 3 globals with a value of 50 whereas the other did get only one but with a value of 200. To get the latter one is quite rare, but the team is penalized in getting the points of only one global.

Hence, when further adjusting for value the second team should get the points of 4 globals and not only one. This would make the competition less random. The team doing more kills is still the one with best chances and there is still luck factor.

Would be interesting to see how this changes rankings of old WOFs.

Now that would be a lot of work on the judges part forget it. But I would have to agree with the judges on this one. A global is a global, a HOF is HOF it is a variable we can't predict and can't be judged.
 

Rayne Jade

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not sure if this has been already addressed, but are there intentions to evaluated the value of the global as well?

There is already something in place for that... the loot bonus.

Now that would be a lot of work on the judges part forget it.

Not true... already doing that. Excel works wonders.
 

Hurrikane

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Some contrys do have many players in this game. What will happen the day when whey splitt support teams in to 2-5 other WoF teams ?

It was a big alliance that did break LG, what will happens if 1-3 contrys off friends do join WoF whit 5-7 teams. At some point there will be people that think it will be a fun thing to do, see if they can met themselft in a final...

Will you then think about a rule change then... ?


It's not the normal support that is the problem... the problem is the main team supportshoters in the finals. That is a thing that is easy to police whit main team players can not support other contrys in anyway or just have a 3-5k HP mof in the final and use the ~15k HP mobs in the round before.

Just to discuss the statement in bold; How is it easy to police? The event takes place planet-wide and further, with teams split to hunt different mobs in different spawns in many locations per hunt. So without marshalls or judges at each and every spawn, attached to every scoring player, how could anyone police softening shooters and their involvement?

To make, as you suggest, something like an Armax Provider the top mob in the final, while early stages feature dasps and spiders, would cancel smaller teams chances earlier, and take away from the progressive nature of the rounds.

I can't quite see what you're saying with the splitting of teams; only one Main Team per nation is allowed. If those Nations are "made up" (e.g. Team Dijibouti) then they are still not fighting for their own country. But yes, if massive use of underhand strategy ever dominates the event then I will be concerned, and you can say "I told you so". I truly can't see it happening. Most teams find it hard enough to field 4 good players each match, let alone co-ordinate a massed offensive.

To Wildman Alpha: Firstly, thank you for your input. I'm not in the habit of telling everyone with an opinion to not bother telling me; this is a suggestions thread, and I'm sorry if my rejection of your suggestion seemed like a blanket refusal to change. I really don't think you know what you're offering when you say you'll perform the extra duties required; the hours of the WoF are many, and unrelenting, for a long time. Those who just have to hunt for 3 hours every fortnight have it easy:) But again, your offer does show you have thought out your suggestion.

Here's what I've concluded from looking at the issue of mercenaries in the WoF.

1. The main aim of the WoF is to involve as many people as possible.

2. A secondary aim to make it as easy as possible for these people to take part.

3. I can't make rules that can't be enforced, or rely on trust or hearsay.

Main Teams and Support Teams cannot be verified as being from the country they represent. Many players live elsewhere to the country they love. Many players feel stronger about other countries than the one they call home. The question of patriotism is therefore answered by the simple choice of which team you opt to fight for.

The Main Teams make up on average 75% of each match score. This leaves 25% for the Support Teams.
Countries with a larger EU-playing population theoretically will have larger support teams. Those with lower numbers of patriots are able to call on their friends to make the difference. This is fair.

The use of softening shooters was one of the first examples of thinking outside the box used in the WoF. I had no problem with that. To co-ordinate a team as well as those helping while trying to compete with another is no easy feat. It also brings up the issue of recompense. Some "softeners" were given a share of the loot, some were paid for their ammo, some were shooting "for free" just to help their team. All of this I also had no problem with. Working out loot after a team hunt is notoriously problematic for large numbers of EU players, and many threads are testament to this. Working out, through a combination of trust and judgement, how much to reward supporters for their actions without offending them or giving away money for nothing, is not a task I envy the teams.

So there are several types of National team that take part.

There are those who proudly field teams entirely of their own nation. This is rare, as not many teams have the playerbase to achieve this.

There are those who are mostly from one Nation, but allow anyone sympathetic to help them. These make up the bulk of the teams.

There are those who join teams out of an unwillingness to join a team representing their own nation, or any earth nation, such as Eudoria, Amethera, Tibet and Cuba. This is also rare, but welcome; a victory by any of these teams would surely be a huge statement, not least in favour of the virtual world we spend so much time in.

There are those who find they have less support than others and advertise for help. Here is where the issues start.

Given that it is common practice, not to mention polite, to reward supporters, there is NO difference in asking for help, e.g. "Help Tunisia" or asking "Help Tunisia in the WoF and we'll pay you for your ammo". If teams privately arrange to reward more generously, or "pay for each global" with whatever amount of reward, then that is as un-policeable as their country of origin, it's within the Rules, and it's merely a tactic all can use.

I did think of ways of stopping mercenaries. I came to the conclusion that I don't want to. I don't want to label anyone who has used them in the past unfairly, and I don't think their use leads to any corruption of the scores.

To say those who advertise for mercenaries would be penalised; would that be those who offer ammo, a share of the loot, or only if it was more than that, say 100 PED per global? Even if decided, how would this be enforced, given that any payments are a private matter between the parties concerned?

EU is full of soldiers of fortune, they can play in the WoF too. If, as some seem to fear, this will lead to "money calling the shots", then we'll see the richest countries win every year, I'll get more complaints, and the Rules will be reconsidered. This hasn't really been evident so far. The big names are mostly on Main Teams already, hunting for their country of choice for the 75% of the score the Main Team get. Those who hunt for another team do so at the expense of their own, and with no guarantee of reward (WoF loots are not always wonderful). I see nothing wrong with offering incentives.

Those with the resources to abuse this are the teams who do not need to. They have the players and skills and equipment already. Those who pay for help are doing so as a last resort. To fund this kind of assistance throughout the tournament would cost the Main Team thousands of dollars. If anyone's willing to do that to win what is essentially a bootleg event conducted for fun and national pride, then those people have a much higher value placed on both fun and patriotism than I have, and I salute them, while remaining bemused.

The fact remains that the 2008 Final, with around 300 people shooting at spiders and taking them down 4 seconds at a time for three hours, giving in 3 hours of hunting the same stats on tracker for spiders as in the previous 12 DAYS, was nothing short of fantastic. To me, that was the day the WoF came of age. An army of avatars against an army of mobs, all working together towards a common goal... it doesn't get much better than that.

So in conclusion: Free to Enter, Open to All. The other Rules are secondary.

I do listen to suggestions, but I can't implement all of them, or agree with all of them. Many changes have taken place for next year, based on suggestions and comments in this thread and in-game. The 10th of November will see them posted. Keep them coming.

Hurrikane
 

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i have to say, any suggestion to "register" support is crap and will only lead to lower participation. many times members have joined in a England Support team 15, 30 mins, an hour or more in to the session; others join in after a few rounds as they weren't really aware of WoF or didnt realise it as for more than the elite main team. some cant make the start of a match, some only get involved after the start of the WoF series. Making registration prior to match and or the series will just exclude people.
 

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Just to discuss the statement in bold; How is it easy to police?

Dont have a high HP mob in the final, that's easy. A final on cp d4 (if it looks the same), that have to be the best finalground in this game...
 

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Let me tell I dont like so much the union of countries like DACH, ok...same spoken language i understand that....but...if there,in next year wof, an union of english spoken lang ? lol.....UK,USA,Australia etc.....wow !:eek:
 

Rayne Jade

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Let me tell I dont like so much the union of countries like DACH, ok...same spoken language i understand that....but...if there,in next year wof, an union of english spoken lang ? lol.....UK,USA,Australia etc.....wow !:eek:

Hurrikane addressed that concern in one of the many threads about multi-national teams. The scenario above would not be allowed. There are simply far too many available players in the English speaking countries you mentioned. If those player participate is the responsibility of the individual nations. USA, England, Australia etc do not appear to have problems recruiting hunters.
 

VmaX

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Let me tell I dont like so much the union of countries like DACH, ok...same spoken language i understand that....but...if there,in next year wof, an union of english spoken lang ? lol.....UK,USA,Australia etc.....wow !:eek:

In defense of the BeNeLux coalition..
It is a reallife coalition and even with its own flag! :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benelux
 

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In defense of the BeNeLux coalition..
It is a reallife coalition and even with its own flag! :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benelux

Yes, it must be said, when submitting a Nation to us, having a flag that J Boy can swipe off the net for the score cards is something in your favour:) DACH and BeNeLux both did.

Hurrikane
 

geanina

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Aug 26, 2006
Posts
254
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Alex Udrica Geanina
i think MA shoud implicate a bit more in this kind of events

Champion Leageu again is a good event
 

xaph

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Mar 20, 2007
Posts
3,736
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Australia
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Antipodean Army
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Xaph
Wofovision :)

And here is the result of a fine competition by oracle remember to subscribe next year evryone:)

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
With great thanks to Oracle for a superb competition and it certainly was a wonderful array of choice for the voters.

I do concede that the Aussie strength came with a lot of lobbying and promotion particularly with the Aussie WoF contingency and my loyal multinational friends and society mates from Global Alliance society and many other affiliated societies cheers to you all:)

As a gesture of solidarity all proceeds from the hunt with Oracle on Rocktopia and the awarded EFD will be added to the Aussie WoF crews "War Esky" in preparation for next year's planned rolling of the tables by the Aussie juggernaut so keep your eye on 2011's Wof scores.

If you have no idea of what and Esky is have a read on the wiki, proudly the Esky is kept in Deathifers love castle:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esky

Cheers to you all and commiserations to Pieman, ya done well mate, " Its was a long way to the top if ya wanna rock and roll"
and I guess
"Another one bites the dust" :D

:yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay::yay:
 

Casay

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USA
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Casay Casay Onyx
I can say that this wof overall went a TON better than before. TY! :yay:

The support team mobs were much much better and allowed for those teams to at least make some peds. We lost so many people in a previous year due to the mollisks three events in a row. The change was appreciated.

Anyway - I do like and understand the point limit of support teams during the matches. I think that has leveled out the field a bunch and let a lot of countries compete. It may take one team 1 hour or another 3 hours but still same amount of points.

My only real issue is the final round coming down to one noob mob that rarely globals. That just doesn't seem fair or right to the teams that make it to the end. There were too many points for that mob and doesn't really need a 'strategy' as it's all luck. There's enough luck involved to have it come down to that. 125 points for one snable? How many more points would have been scored had the 3 teams not been on that mob for hours praying ??

I hope this is given serious consideration and that the final teams in the future don't have to deal with something like this. All teams put to much time, effort and peds into all of this to lose to total luck and not strategy + the luck that's already involved.

I'd rather see more total mobs in the final that have a good chance to global for a sweep than just one mob weighted so heavily. There would be more strategy to it then if anything. No one mob should be worth that much... not in the final. :(

The final is "World of Firepower" and I don't think killing snables for so many points fits the event.

Just my .02....

You guys did an awesome job this year and ty for all the hard work!!!

ROCK ON WOF... and USA ....of course ;)
 
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