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You do not own an estate you buy nor the contents in it!

Luckycharm

Luckycharm

Elite
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Posts
3,136
Society
The Dung Kickers
Avatar Name
Gallyon Luckycharm Sundstrand
Hi,

I would like to let people know what can happen if you buy a (planet) estate especially if furnished.
Here is the story:

On the 20th of august I purchased an apartment on arkadia. The total price was 800 ped for a lvl 2 apartment (Celeste North 12 Lvl 2). Now this is arkadia, but the same can happen on calypso. There was for approx 170 ped tt of stuff in the app at the time of purchase. This included a very cool coin. Basically the price was around 500-600 ped for the app with all TT and MU included I guess, which seemed fair to me. See screenies:



Upon me attempting to claim the apartment this warning appeared: "Estate can not be traded due to the following item: Assault Rifle (FA) (L) (This item can not be traded.)."

There also was a Medkit (L) in it so that would have caused a problem as well I imagine.

Now here it comes, I write support about the gun and go to work. When I come back home I see (as expected) no reply from support yet. I go to my apartment to look at the coin again and find the place raided, 11 nova aside and 5 curtains that are still hanging (forgotten probably). No coin either of course.

So basically it seems at this stage it is possible to buy even a castle and if the former owner has put an untradeable item in it he or she can use the estate forever and the deedholder has nothing but a virtual piece of paper. As the estates no longer seem to be needed to be set to restricted mode to enable trade I can only assume the former owners in fact still own the estate and everything in it...

Basically my advise is do not buy any estate that is furnished until this is resolved. Because all the stuff that is in it can be gone pretty soon after you hold the deed already!

Gally
 
Yes and it is odd, why a "return items to owner" option, doesn't exist in the estate manage area!
One of the default operations, basic and essential to....."another virtual world" I lived for about 7 years.
 
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due web lag posted twice ;/
 
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Did you get your stuff back?

This is stuff in the infrastructure that annoys people when it does not work properly :3
 
Luckycharm said:
Hi,

I would like to let people know what can happen if you buy a (planet) estate especially if furnished.
Here is the story:

On the 20th of august I purchased an apartment on arkadia. The total price was 800 ped for a lvl 2 apartment (Celeste North 12 Lvl 2). Now this is arkadia, but the same can happen on calypso. There was for approx 170 ped tt of stuff in the app at the time of purchase. This included a very cool coin. Basically the price was around 500-600 ped for the app with all TT and MU included I guess, which seemed fair to me. See screenies:
Click to expand...

What was the status of the deed when you got it - was it "Restricted: Yes" or "Restricted: No"?

As far as I know, estates are supposed to be set to restricted during trades (eg when placed in auction), when it's in restricted mode no items can be removed from estate, and you're supposed to hold the estate deed in inventory to remove restricted access (so a seller can't unrestrict it while deed is placed in auction).

Fineprint legal stuff: You dont get ownership of the the apartment when you buy it; MA Always owns it but you get the right to manage it. (Now afterwards, after seeing a post here in Another thread, I got to the conclusion reason is to reduce the headache given by Swedish tax bureu.)
 
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Mindark just can't seem to get estates straightened out, ever... As soon as they fix one thing three more things break with the system.

sorry to hear that you got your junk stolen. It sounds like a definite scammy thing happened, so maybe support ticket can help you get your stuff back.

P.S. As far as 'ownership goes' - You don't own anything in Entropia, ever... even if Bulletin's by Mindark itself suggest otherwise. That's why all the apartment deeds say 'holder' instead of 'owner' as they previously did many years ago.
 
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So you essentially were scammed by the seller?
 
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Damn, my shithead list is getting pretty crowded lately. One more guy I will ever deal with, sell or buy, help in any way, answer or acknowledge.

Hope you can get it sorted out by support.
 
Well yes it's kind of douchebag to pick things up from a sold apartment (unless you have talked aobut it with the new owner first). Now I don't know how "noobish" the seller is, but a serious seller should have put the apartment in restricted mode Before Selling it.
 
Sounds like a potential bug waiting to be exploited...

And the seller probably knew about it and was waiting for a "buyer" to prey upon.

Good luck with your report. And please inform us of the outcome.

I pray that you get your stuff back.
 
Sorry to read that something like that can happen. Impressive that you had pictures of everything! I hope everything gets sorted out quickly.
 
Yeah this sounds like a scam due to bug to me. I hope MA fixes it and gets you your stuff back. Can you please pm me the name of the scammer?
 
Well we are practically 3 months further now and now support seems to look into the issue "already".

Wondering what the outcome of this one will be...
 
You still don't have it? Holy hell that is.. I'm at a loss for words....
 
Has this bug been fixed yet? I see lots of estates with 1 or 2 lamps in them and nothing else. Lots of folks cannot verify if place is empty if buying deed on a Planet your avatar isn't on at time of auction. Just bumping it since in much more recent thread somewhere someone mentioned this bug may still be live?

Don't know if this affects only nontrade items or tradeable too?
 
Yes you can't trade Estates that are not in unrestricted mode. And you cannot enter that mode with items in the deeded area
 
Venture Bros said:
Yes you can't trade Estates that are not in unrestricted mode. And you cannot enter that mode with items in the deeded area
Click to expand...

Not so sure about that... If it works in a shopkeeper, it probably works in a regular shop, or auction? Haven't tried it in p2p trading... maybe someone else can give it a test.

When it comes to Mindark and estates, I don't trust much to be 'safely' coded the way that it was intended to be... because they've proven over and over again...

The estate bug is not Fixed Yet
U think ur shop is large - check out Mega Shop!
Are Booth owners forgotten
Cannot drop items in booth
Issue with Booth Item Points
Consumer rights and Entropia

... that they aren't sure what they are doing, as the bugs keep coming in to play... They usually fix one thing and break 10 others in the process, many of which are never documented in vu notes, etc. since I don't think they test estates as well as they do some other things in game. Also, just based on personal experience, I believe they are always tweaking the estates, even in the same vu, as things may work one way and then change without a vu update (happened when they removed the ability to put items in the apartment halls on calypso, happened when they changed the tilt angle you could put stuff on L-quent, and I think it happened a few other times - but I can't think of those examples off of the top of my head right now... etc.)

Maybe it is just shopkeepers that this hasn't been 'fixed' yet? Perhaps it's a hidden shopkeeper 'feature' instead of bug? If I'm looking at this right, it appears that all these untradeable items that people keep bitching about and want to get rid of (including the pills from the boxes, etc.) CAN actually be traded off to another avatar... You'd just have to have 2 apartments and a shopkeeper to do the trade, and then sell them the deed with the fully loaded apartment, then trade the deed back... Make sure to use collateral in this type of deal if anyone tries it.

The fact that you could accidentally sell off the apartment deed that a shopkeeper who is doing the sale in via this floors me... could lead to someone making big huge mistake similar to the auction mistakes we see on a regular basis in various posts (something that shouldn't happen either, but does way too often)



Please Help 120k peds Mistake!"]Please Help 120k peds Mistake!
Time for MA's management to sit down together, think and discuss...
Make orders pay the offered price
Looking for Fareios BigHunter Acheimes
Made a mistake, does anyone know Dmitry stDem Sur?
Selling AUD on AH at wrong mu.......... I'm a moron
30000 ped just gone ...... [Auction mistake]
Help, im a noob and made a bad order mistake on Calypso!!
Just made a huge auction-failure.
Looking for Mr Infinity Infinity
Please Help 120k peds Mistake!
Arkadian Underground Deed scam or mistake in auction
AUCTION WARNING: Guy selling deeds for 12000 ped

P.S. Mindark devs, if you are reading this please make event items such as Duchev log, various non-tradeable items such as pets, pills, etc. tradeable as part of the fix on this since that's what the participants want... would make selling off those items easier and more fair for both seller and buyer since no one knows what price to sell the stuff for that has no auction history as it has no markup history to judge the price by.

IMHO every item in game should be able to be 'traded' every way you can trade it - via auction, shopkeeper, shop, or p2p trade in the REAL cash economy you claim to have in this game. Otherwise, it's all essentially just Monopoly money... not useable, not tradeable, etc. If you do allow this hidden shopkeeper feature to continue, which is fine, and swell as it is a 'feature not a bug' just advertise it that way and let folks know about the potential problems if they sell a fully loaded apartment on accident.... i.e. if you can't fix it in the next 24 hours, please do a dev note on it asap or something (although it may be too late since this bug's been going on at least 2 years judging by the date on op)
 
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mastermesh said:
Not so sure about that... If it works in a shopkeeper, it probably works in a regular shop, or auction? Haven't tried it in p2p trading... maybe someone else can give it a test.

When it comes to Mindark and estates, I don't trust much to be 'safely' coded the way that it was intended to be... because they've proven over and over again...

The estate bug is not Fixed Yet
U think ur shop is large - check out Mega Shop!
Are Booth owners forgotten
Cannot drop items in booth
Issue with Booth Item Points
Consumer rights and Entropia

... that they aren't sure what they are doing, as the bugs keep coming in to play... They usually fix one thing and break 10 others in the process, many of which are never documented in vu notes, etc. since I don't think they test estates as well as they do some other things in game. Also, just based on personal experience, I believe they are always tweaking the estates, even in the same vu, as things may work one way and then change without a vu update (happened when they removed the ability to put items in the apartment halls on calypso, happened when they changed the tilt angle you could put stuff on L-quent, and I think it happened a few other times - but I can't think of those examples off of the top of my head right now... etc.)
Click to expand...

Not defending them but it's not necessarily an easy engine to work with too... But anyway, you cannot trade or post an estate with items in it if I am not mistaken, so this has been fixed, MA way :)

I can try it with my studio on Ark later if youd like and reply with the results
 
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