Ziplex spam

It just occured to me, when I opened my boxes, they were "hard" to open. I would get a lot of "Could not execute" messages before a succesfull open. I assume that at the time, MA was aware of the bug and trying to stop it. When MA mention they are doing an "exploit investigation" I guess they are reffering to this, the mining boxes were NOT meant to be opened but if you spammed long enough they would eventually open. So all the posts/arguments in this thread saying "I just bought keys and opened boxes:(" are bullshit. Enjoy your bans:)
10-15 years ago, for almost all online games was some ways to play "hard" with servers. In that time I was just pay for one premium items and be able to have more in some very ugly methods. Not scamming people but playing with the servers.
When I come to Entropia I say true, I did try once and get automated permanent banned. MA know about this and have set some security.
If someone did succesfull to avoid the security and force the server to "give good rares items " ....the others who did try after just force the server to give the nice bonus.
I didnt try but I do belive something that can make this is still active and can be done in others activity, not only in opening strongboxes.
Some did wanted to cyrcle more, MA accept that and now you can see some shits happen because some ways are let free to use.
 
Just to give use guys a glimpse of how bad this was i was just given information from someone who did open 40 boxes only! 40, he obtained the following from 40.
Over 150 ped in plastics
Around 120 ped rugaritz
5 P160 finders
7 p85 finders
10 p50s
Multiple p20 and p30,
And this was someone who on the list was a very minor offender.

Think about the major culprits on that list that did not stop.

He mentioned the figures i just posted arent 100% they maby off by 5-10% but i figured that i should post this information regardless just to show the level of profit/exploitation that was going on by people that claim how should i know if it was a bug or exploit.

I got the ok to share this info from him providing i dont name and shame. So use this as you will.

Exactly.
And I can bet you that this guy, opening 40 boxes, looting about 25 Ziplex finders, is not listed as having looted 25 finders in EL.
Because EL doesnt have the capability to register too many loot events which happen quickly.

You can then start to think about those are listed as having looted 10, 12 or 18 Ziplex. How many finders did they loot - 40? 60? 70?
 
So damage is big that olny ziplex spam
Ruga?
Dunkel?

and who know amp ul as well? good job mindark
 
Just to give use guys a glimpse of how bad this was i was just given information from someone who did open 40 boxes only! 40, he obtained the following from 40.
Over 150 ped in plastics
Around 120 ped rugaritz
5 P160 finders
7 p85 finders
10 p50s
Multiple p20 and p30,
And this was someone who on the list was a very minor offender.

Think about the major culprits on that list that did not stop.

He mentioned the figures i just posted arent 100% they maby off by 5-10% but i figured that i should post this information regardless just to show the level of profit/exploitation that was going on by people that claim how should i know if it was a bug or exploit.

I got the ok to share this info from him providing i dont name and shame. So use this as you will.
Check your math again
 
In RM they locked them for 3 days, reset the mission so they loose the point to be able to get that rare.
Who wanted to get that rare need to do again all that stages from that mission.
Lost of peds in MU, lost of time .
Afaik they only reset gems related mission, and nothing else.
 
we give value to itemsw... ma give TT....
if who dropped those will use, it will be 98% return aswell

you cant beat the game, can beat the gamers
 
Thanks for all those that neg rep me and dislike my post saying i would do the same!

At the end MA dint see it as an exploit, what i did:

2024-09-08 13:27 Entropia Universe Support:

Hi,

We have investigated the strongbox issue and have decided to unlock your account again.
However some of the items opened have been removed from your inventory and replaced with extra mining strongboxes and keys.

Kind regards,
Entropia Universe Support

I am 100% sure that everyone who was in game and had boxes was opening/selling them.
I got calls and messages from players advising me to open boxes, what surprise me is seeing them after the shit hit the fan vocal how bad judgments are the locked players have taken. - anyway gl all

@My|MindArk @Ludvig|MindArk : The action that where taken and the way the support case was handled i didn't feel to be a customer. Ofc it should not have anything to do with "depositing" or "not", but now I regret my 25kUSD deposit from last year. But lessons learned and thank you got it!
 
Thanks for all those that neg rep me and dislike my post saying i would do the same!

At the end MA dint see it as an exploit, what i did:



I am 100% sure that everyone who was in game and had boxes was opening/selling them.
I got calls and messages from players advising me to open boxes, what surprise me is seeing them after the shit hit the fan vocal how bad judgments are the locked players have taken. - anyway gl all

@My|MindArk @Ludvig|MindArk : The action that where taken and the way the support case was handled i didn't feel to be a customer. Ofc it should not have anything to do with "depositing" or "not", but now I regret my 25kUSD deposit from last year. But lessons learned and thank you got it!
Aw ya don't let the "holier than thou's/negative nancy's" on the forums bother you. You were 1 of the people who let me know where the dude's mining bots were at recently and reported them to MA for the good of the game and it's good MA took back the too many finders from the bug for the good of the game. Hope they will keep it up and improve the game's problems, but most people know where you stand. Keep your head up GL.
 
It's been interesting following this thread and reading responses to this situation. After giving it some thought, I have a few questions: How can we, as players, distinguish between a bug and an intended change, such as increased drop rates? Why should players even have to worry about whether something is a bug or an intended adjustment, only to then be concerned about being banned for "exploiting" something we have no knowledge of behind the scenes?

While I understand the Ziplex case was extreme, my point still holds. This situation was clearly a mistake on MA’s part—the drop rates on the boxes were incorrectly adjusted, and players simply acted within the game’s mechanics. The root issue lies with MA, not the players who benefited from the error.

To be clear, I’m not here to debating the specifics of the Ziplex issue. My broader concern is that players were engaging with the game as it was designed, only to be punished for "exploiting" an error caused by MA. They were playing the game as it was intended to be played. What happens next time this happens because some other item is dropping too frequently due to an error on MAs end?
 
It's been interesting following this thread and reading responses to this situation. After giving it some thought, I have a few questions: How can we, as players, distinguish between a bug and an intended change, such as increased drop rates? Why should players even have to worry about whether something is a bug or an intended adjustment, only to then be concerned about being banned for "exploiting" something we have no knowledge of behind the scenes?

While I understand the Ziplex case was extreme, my point still holds. This situation was clearly a mistake on MA’s part—the drop rates on the boxes were incorrectly adjusted, and players simply acted within the game’s mechanics. The root issue lies with MA, not the players who benefited from the error.

To be clear, I’m not here to debating the specifics of the Ziplex issue. My broader concern is that players were engaging with the game as it was designed, only to be punished for "exploiting" an error caused by MA. They were playing the game as it was intended to be played. What happens next time this happens because some other item is dropping too frequently due to an error on MAs end?
Exactly, we clearly need a clarification.

I ask this in the support, what if i go in an area and i get a high drop of the rare mineral i move? or same if for example i lot more ESI's? should i move? Or in an event i loot 2-3 pcs of an armor / weapon should i be concerned?
 
It's been interesting following this thread and reading responses to this situation. After giving it some thought, I have a few questions: How can we, as players, distinguish between a bug and an intended change, such as increased drop rates? Why should players even have to worry about whether something is a bug or an intended adjustment, only to then be concerned about being banned for "exploiting" something we have no knowledge of behind the scenes?

While I understand the Ziplex case was extreme, my point still holds. This situation was clearly a mistake on MA’s part—the drop rates on the boxes were incorrectly adjusted, and players simply acted within the game’s mechanics. The root issue lies with MA, not the players who benefited from the error.

To be clear, I’m not here to debating the specifics of the Ziplex issue. My broader concern is that players were engaging with the game as it was designed, only to be punished for "exploiting" an error caused by MA. They were playing the game as it was intended to be played. What happens next time this happens because some other item is dropping too frequently due to an error on MAs end?
Exactly, admitting it was a bug and reverting changes = cool

Calling players exploiters for opening boxes = not cool
 
It's been interesting following this thread and reading responses to this situation. After giving it some thought, I have a few questions: How can we, as players, distinguish between a bug and an intended change, such as increased drop rates? Why should players even have to worry about whether something is a bug or an intended adjustment, only to then be concerned about being banned for "exploiting" something we have no knowledge of behind the scenes?

While I understand the Ziplex case was extreme, my point still holds. This situation was clearly a mistake on MA’s part—the drop rates on the boxes were incorrectly adjusted, and players simply acted within the game’s mechanics. The root issue lies with MA, not the players who benefited from the error.

To be clear, I’m not here to debating the specifics of the Ziplex issue. My broader concern is that players were engaging with the game as it was designed, only to be punished for "exploiting" an error caused by MA. They were playing the game as it was intended to be played. What happens next time this happens because some other item is dropping too frequently due to an error on MAs end?
Why are you talking sense? This is not allowed in this thread apparently.
 
Exactly, we clearly need a clarification.

I ask this in the support, what if i go in an area and i get a high drop of the rare mineral i move? or same if for example i lot more ESI's? should i move? Or in an event i loot 2-3 pcs of an armor / weapon should i be concerned?
That's just regular day/loot.

To that happend 5-10 times a row.

Cmon man.

You know better.

Yeah it shouldn't happend and it is MA fault, but you shouldn't either try take advance of it even it's their fault and play cool like you didnt knew 100% what you were doing.
 
Per announcement, they getting the swift kick in the ass.

But.. real issue here, other than people devoid of character, is that the system implemented is garbage (and prone to ridiculous and expensive errors).
the way uncommon loot gets injected into the loot pool has been janked and prone to error for years. for the life of me i don't understand why they haven't solved it given how central to the game the loot algorithm is

enforcing some sensible default settings when doing data entry on this stuff would go a long way
 
The problem here is that your notion of identifying cases which are quite clear is worlds apart from an epistemology that actually tracks truth, but is quite convenient in terms of justifying premature calls for collective punishment. If you try to bracket off the current context and think about the playerbase from a more neutral perspective, I think you will see it is manifestly not the case that we all know how loot works, judging by the fact that there is not even widespread agreement between players over how loot works. There is no broad consensus on whether loot instances are independent and identically distributed, loot waves exist (and if so how they function), global loot pools exist, personal loot pools exist, etc. Even information stated by MindArk regarding how loot works is interpreted with a wide degree of latitude on a regular basis.

This is relevant because the type of outlier outcome which occurred here is plausible predicted by some loot theories. For example, one common loot theory is that loot computations (sometimes multiplier rates, in this case we'll posit item drop rates) are filtered through a superposition of temporally-situated waves; often three waves (small/medium/large), but it could just as well be a bigger number. On this hypothesis, one would expect uncommon times at which the phases of enough waves align that the type of outcome we observed is the proper functioning of the loot system, due to the phenomenon of resonance. For such a wave theorist (who also had a lot of patience), prior to seeing MindArk's statement that the outcome was unintended, it could have been entirely reasonable to open boxes during such a window of perceived resonance. Indeed, it could have been reasonable (and still could be in the future) to wait for such a window to open a dump-ton of boxes.

Loot theory is just the one presumption you've made explicit. You've made many others implicitly. Was an individual watching their drops as they opened their boxes, or clicking through while paying attention to something else? If they noticed their drops, did they have good reason to know they were different from other non-bugged occurrences of drop heterogeneity colloquially referred to as "happy hour"? Etc. Etc. This is the problem with trying to attribute blame on a collective level. You don't actually know any of the case-specific details until you learn them with regard to a specific individual. It's generally not possible to find an objective metric like "10 boxes is fine, 11 boxes is too much." You gain confidence in policy violation when a lot of different pieces of evidence come together, and that's usually difficult or impossible for the playerbase to do without the tools at MindArk's disposal.

For that matter, what should an honest player do in the face of uncertainty about this type of occurrence? It's not obvious to me. It's easy to say that if a player knows with virtual certainty that their performing actions would constitute an exploit, then they should not perform those actions and should report the bug. But what if the individual places, say, 50% credence in an outcome being a bug and 50% credence in it being an occurrence of resonance or happy hour or an unknown event? It's far from clear that an honest player should be expected to forego a plausibly-legitimate strategy, when to do so would be a terrible pragmatic mistake if the occurrence turns out to be within the bounds of developer intent. "Don't do it if you think it might be a bug" seems unattainably restrictive in just about any game, let alone a sandbox in which player creativity is supposed to take center state in the formation of individuals' user experiences. The chilling effects of such a metapolicy would be ruinous for the Entropian spirit. Perhaps the most reasonable course of action to jointly minimize policy error and pragmatic error over a sequence of such cases would be to juice the living daylights out of the opportunity if you want to but also report it, and state in the report that you'll keep the items obtained in Storage for a week or two rather than circulating them through the economy, just in case the opportunity is later announced as a bug and MindArk decides to do some sort of rollback? That's still a lot of preemptive responsibility to expect all honest Entropians to take, and it really feels like we shouldn't have to deal with this at all.

This is a mighty wall of text but it does basically line up with what I think as well. Community understanding of loot theory and the game itself has trained us that "sometimes during periods of time you can get lucky, and when that happens, rejoice". What's hard is trying to separate those that knew there was a known bug and were determined to exploit it, and those that simply saw the loot spam, thought "it's a wave, let's hit it", and did so.
 
They don't want it. I applied to one of their positions a while ago out of boredom. Their HR must be manned by their support. They said nothing for a full year.
Also, I'm 99.9% sure you couldn't work for them and still play. I understand why, it's a conflict of interest thing. But it also means that the company must necessarily be staffed exclusively by people who don't actually play the game, and that people who have the most enthusiasm and experience playing the game, can't help make the game better. I think there's a solution to that, but it would have to be desired
 
If you put a dollar into a vending machine and it gives you two dollars back and a soda, it's a bug. If you stand there for two hours feeding the machine dollars, you're exploiting the bug. Pretty straight forward.
Not really. A vending machine is not designed to give you anything except what you selected. There's no RNG. RNG leaves open the possibility that you are getting lucky. Though, after a certain number of times, the credibility of luck begins to diminish. It'll be up to MA to decide where that cutoff is.
 
Y'all I am new and this is the first "kerfluffle" I've seen. I am not a miner and did not participate in the ziplex spree, I am not directly affected by what happened and am too new to see the ramifications of any indirect consequence of this event. So this is from a new-player perspective, as such I've followed the thread carefully and would just like to share my thoughts.

What seemingly happened was, Ziplexs are dropping from mining boxes more than intended, more people open them hoping to catch the wave, seems like a totally normal and natural thing. Imagine if you were a hunter, and you see people constantly hitting big globals or small hofs on some mob like feffoids, would you not proceed and shoot some feffoids yourself, if you could? How is anyone supposed to differentiate between "this is awesome! great loot! MA charity day!" and "this is clearly wrong, something's messed up, not working as intended"

To that point, someone posted that the number of ziplex looted/found in 24 hours quickly surpassed all of those found the prior year. As a new player, I wouldn't know that. And if I was opening mining boxes, and got a ziplex I'm not going to stop what I'm doing, see how many were looted, see how many were looted the prior year etc, no I'm going to open another box. There's also no way of knowing as it's happening what it's going to end up being. If only 5 players opened boxes that day and only 10 ziplex's were found, is it still a bug then?

I'm not trying to defend those that tried to overtly capitalize on this bug. I'm trying to come to grips with how I'm supposed to decide if the "loot" (it's not really loot right? It's a purchased asset), but how am I supposed to decide if what I'm getting is too-good and problematic.

While I'm not a miner and this doesn't impact me, I will say it hits close. What I've done as part of my diving-in to Entropia experience, is buy 1k of each seasonal strongbox. And if in my opening of summer boxes I found a summer ring, better believe I'm going to continue opening them (for 1: because I just got a ring!!, and 2: because it was my plan to open 1k. I did 1k Christmas, then 1k summer). If another ring drops, another box is getting opened. Now at some point I absolutely would think "somethings going on here" and stop, but where that number is, I couldn't tell you. Also the way in which I opened them - I'm not entirely sure I would even know while it's happening? I just held down space bar the whole time for my box opening, I wouldn't have any way to see as the opening is happening, if I got 1 ring or 10 rings of 200 rings or 0 rings. (Got 1 athenic adjusted btw).

Totally get and respect that there was clear abuse, but that feels like the benefit of hindsight. Because again, in the moment, in a relative vacuum, how would an unconnected individual know that what they're doing isn't right at the time? This is probably one of the best summations in this thread and a quick shout out to Krill for the analogy:

Speaking ONLY to the first instance, are you responsible for giving back the extra dollar? It was not your fault the machine gave it to you, it's the service technician. You take that dollar say thanks to the machine and be on your way. Whole-heartedly agree that if you pursue with malicious intent to abuse the system, you are exploiting the bug. But I don't see how you can punish individuals who tried to catch a wave. I almost feel like they should've just picked a number (# of ziplex looted less than X 'no problem, our fault, enjoy', greater than X rewards taken back, boxes returned, greater than Y more severe etc)

From what I've read, the ziplex spree was a mistake, it was MA's mistake, and it was a bug, their bug that people exploited in the sense of "took advantage of". So them saying players are "guilty of this exploit" seems disrespectful, scapegoating, and mislabeled. MA is guilty of the bug that players exploited is more accurate. Maybe this is a language barrier thing, but language matters, especially when money is involved.


Again, I don't have a dog in this fight. I was not impacted apart from the "ooooooo's" and "ahhhhhhhhh's" of watching this unfold, and just want to share a new player perspective. If I have facts wrong, I certainly apologize and mean no disrespect or offense to anyone.
Cheers and have a blessed friday everyone.

edit:typos mostly
Yeah, I didn't participate, but the blood people seem to be calling for seems unwarranted. This was MA's mistake and all but the most egregious exploiters hopefully are cleared. It doesn't make sense to "criminalize" an act that they want to promote (opening boxes), and introduce uncertainty into a process that used to be pretty straightforward. Now, when anyone has a good string of luck just playing the game (hunting, mining, crafting, opening boxes, etc) they have to wonder whether they might be in danger of being sanctioned. As another player put it, they should have apologized for the problem, clawed back all the items, and let that be the end of it. Instead it turned into this punitive thing, for some reason. It would be different if the players were having to perform some convoluted series of acts that were outside the normal behavior of players, like some kind of duping glitch. Intent is key.
 
Legacy boxes seem to have an increased Ziplex drop rate and they don't drop like the mining boxes did during that 20 hr span. Pretty obvious it was a glitch with the loot table algorithm.

Initially I thought it might be some lead in to another RM because I noticed an uptick of Ziplex right before the last RM but after a while it was an obvious bug or someone found a weakness in the loot algorithm and activated it.

I've opened a lot of boxes and the never had rare stuff pop up so frequently even with increased chances in legacy boxes. I was tempted to give it a try during that 20 hr span but knew it wasn't typical loot behavior and would result in MA taking action.

All that being said MA may need to really scrutinize their current system on loot distribution especially if this was some kind of exploited vulnerability. In my opinion it's time to do away with loot/resource waves which might curb some of the bot problems as well.
 
Legacy boxes seem to have an increased Ziplex drop rate and they don't drop like the mining boxes did during that 20 hr span. Pretty obvious it was a glitch with the loot table algorithm.

Initially I thought it might be some lead in to another RM because I noticed an uptick of Ziplex right before the last RM but after a while it was an obvious bug or someone found a weakness in the loot algorithm and activated it.

I've opened a lot of boxes and the never had rare stuff pop up so frequently even with increased chances in legacy boxes. I was tempted to give it a try during that 20 hr span but knew it wasn't typical loot behavior and would result in MA taking action.

All that being said MA may need to really scrutinize their current system on loot distribution especially if this was some kind of exploited vulnerability. In my opinion it's time to do away with loot/resource waves which might curb some of the bot problems as well.
based on the behavior we've seen in the past it implies a certain behavior of loot that is date/time based. AKA release x loot at y time. If loot is entered into the system, and either not staggered (or worse, left blank which in most databases reverts to 1900-01-01), then it can appear all at once. We can't be sure without seeing the code, but it stands to reason based on the mistakes we've seen. There are some simple tech and procedural changes that would make this kind of mistake impossible
 
We sincerely apologize for the recent issue where multiple versions of Ziplex have been looted from the Mining Strongbox over a short period of time. This was unintentional, and we have made adjustments to ensure it will not continue.

We are conducting a thorough investigation to determine the cause of this error.

Thank you for bringing this issue to our attention and for your understanding and patience as we address this matter! 🙏 ❤️

You have already found out the following in this thread by others, but I just wanted to let you know that we are currently doing temporarily bans to some avatars due to a pending investigation regarding exploitation of Mining Strongboxes ❤️

Players are locked during an investigation. This is a standard practice while we investigate a situation. Further punishment will be given to those who we find guilty of this exploit!

Any locked accounts auctions of rugaritz, dunkel and finders has been canceled.

Most those that are cleared of suspicion have gotten their accounts unlocked.

For those who we found guilty, we've retrieved all items from the boxes from their accounts. Their accounts remained locked and will be given further punishments.

We recently identified a glitch affecting the Mining Strongboxes in our game. Due to this issue, players frequently experienced an error message stating 'Could not Execute' when attempting to open these strongboxes. Occasionally these strongboxes could still be opened, which resulted in them only yielding rare loot. We sincerely apologize for this, as it was an oversight on our part, as these boxes were not meant to be accessible to open in this state in the first place.

Unfortunately, this resulted in an unfair advantage for specific avatars, allowing them to loot very rare items consistently. During the incident, a red-text message was displayed on the screen, stating "Could not Execute," which should have indicated that the boxes were not functioning as intended. As this was happening, we did receive support cases from the community and many stopped opening the boxes.

Some players clicked through hundreds or even thousands of these messages to exploit the glitch. Typically, players had to brute force through 10-20 "Could not Execute" messages to successfully open one box, indicating persistent efforts to exploit the glitch rather than accidental encounters. During our review, it also became clear that some players were aware of the glitch and wanted to exploit it, as evidenced by chat logs that referred to the boxes as "glitched" or "bugged" by "spam opening" and debating whether they would get in trouble or not.

As part of our response, we temporarily locked several accounts and made sure to retract as many items as possible obtained from the mining boxes during this period. Most of the players who only opened a few amounts of boxes they already owned have been unlocked and compensated with new mining boxes and/or strongbox keys depending on their individual situation.

Additionally, those who have more extensively exploited this glitch despite ongoing warnings from the red "Could not Execute" messages, are still temporarily locked and will receive less to no compensation for claimed items, depending on their individual cases.

We assure all players that we resolved the issue and the mining boxes are safe to open. Our team has conducted tests to ensure that everything is working as intended, and you can continue to enjoy the game with confidence that the rewards distribution aligns with our original design.

Here is a reminder from the ENTROPIA UNIVERSE ACCOUNT TERMS OF USE (ToU) to follow our Rules of Conduct:

6. MindArk’s rules of conduct
j. You should immediately report errors and bugs in the Entropia Universe to MindArk whenever You discover them. You may not “cheat” or otherwise neglect to report errors or bugs, use bugs, slow connection, Internet latency, or other 'exploits' for Your own benefit or for the benefit of others.


Thank you for your understanding, communication, feedback and continued support ❤️ 🙏
 
Some players clicked through hundreds or even thousands of these messages to exploit the bug. Typically, players had to brute force through 10-20 "Could not Execute" messages to successfully open one box, indicating persistent efforts to exploit the glitch rather than accidental encounters. During our review, it also became clear that some players were aware of the glitch and wanted to exploit it, as evidenced by chat logs that referred to the boxes as "glitched" or "bugged" by "spam opening" and debating whether they would get in trouble or not.

Thankyou for the details of what happened, and what people had to do to open lots of the boxes.

The above section i quoted certainly made me chuckle . :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
Temp locks do nothing to deter. If it was a willful exploit, it's a perm ban AND most of all, fix the dumb wave system.

But this is a very small step in a long road.
 
Additionally, those who have more extensively exploited this glitch despite ongoing warnings from the red "Could not Execute" messages, are still temporarily locked and will receive less to no compensation for claimed items, depending on their individual cases.

Good job, but why on earth are you considering "compensating" players that clicked through hundreds of error messages to exploit this.... is beyond my ability to comprehend.

I hope you (Mindark) reconsider all this and there are VERY LONG bans for the most outrageous offenders.
 
As I have previously mentioned, when everyone is opening those boxes it seemed normal to receive "Could not Execute" message, chat logs can be checked, at least for me. Anyways, better late than never with the announcements.
 
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