The 1x0 situation

Deathifier said:

Hmm I don't see that. You were informed of the change when it occured.
Would it have mattered if they said back when axes were added that they slipped up but were investigating it?
That would only stir up speculation and trouble... much the same as it did over on EP when it was claimed stats were altered....

Could MindArk have acted immediately? Of course.
Will they learn from this experience? I hope so, since support has probably been swamped with complaints on this and other VU changes....

Were you here for the release of Gold when a lot of weapons had their stats changed without us knowing which weapons or what changes?
Or the lesser known imk3 situation, which is much the same as this but in reverse (bad stats, buggy buggy, fixed).
VU 5.2 and the massive change to manufacturing? Some people got stung bad there...
VU 6 and the loot changes? Huge uproar.
VU 7.4 and the skill system changes? Again huge uproar, rebalance means some skills people have built up over the years are gained far more rapidly...

Think deeper about the issues surrounding us and you will see that the little axe is just one part of a complex world, a world that we all share and need to work together to improve.
- Deathifier

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I agree with everything you pointed out Death. I have said it a thousand times already, but once you've been around since Gold it gets kind of old repeating yourself after each major vu

I respect every1's opinion. MA communication has always been less than what we would all like I'm sure. However, everything done in game is for a reason. No sense in beating a dead horse at this point imo.

peace

One thing that i think we need to understand it that we dont know what go's on behind the servers "so to speak". we dont even know how the loot pull works!!! shure we have idea's but no one know's for shure. i have said befor that maby we need to chill out a little bit and let MA try to give us there side of the story. in PR you need to realize that you cant make every one happy and things DO CHANGE. maby marco didn't want the axe to change and has to do his job. marco probly makes a lot of money but he sill has to work just like we do. we don't however have to play this GAME. i will keep doing so i like it untill now i have seen nothing but players helping other players and "its nice to see that". why are we neg reping and kicking each other down when all we are doing is trying to tell are point of view. i see some points on both sides. In the big picture this will probly help for now n00bs and other axers will be hurting. I am a axer but i will find something other than the axe to use. i have also sent a support case to MA asking to fix it how it was that is all i am going to do i am not going to tell them they all dumb or whatever.they did the best they where able and this is still a good game. that is all i am going to say on this post ""probly"".

sorry if this is just a long rave

Ok guys. My first post ever. Flame away - scream noob. Whatever.

I've "only" been playing PE for about 4 months now, and despite many hours surfing the forums and examing stuff ingame with the fresh eyes only a noob can bring, I can honestly say the concept that the recommended starting weapon by the huge majority of PE advisors was "bugged".

No notice of this in any client loader messages/in game text or descriptions or software documentation. No forum messages that I could find about it. No overheard chats in game about it.

I've been reading the "axe outcry" posts all day, so whilst I do concede MA have a huge responsibility over the whole economic system of the world, and have to make whatever changes are necessary to keep things in balance, I do think it is pretty shameful to be aware of a bug for so long, and then fix it without warning once it has become so firmly entrenched.

So, yeah - they did the right thing in my view, but I would have GREATLY appreciated knowing about a "bug" before I started depositing (and, oh so damn frequently too!). Would it have stopped me depositing? - Absolutely not. Whould it have changed the first few weeks of my playing style (i.e axing diakabas)? - absolutely.....

i dunno it seems its rather changed as more ppl complained about it...

well you know more important ppl then noobs...

i think like ETOPIA ..its shows the way MA is going...

i thought it was a great move to give newbies and others also

the axes and armors like pixie...

but changing axes after one freking year ??

i know lots of ppl will say wtf look at all the newbs hof

but those ppl get also the hofs payed by noobs...

and even with nearly 6k LB i could take axes for 50 ped and 20ped ammo

still loose 25ped on corn 30 on argos... 40 on molisk...

and u say always profit ..lol

despite axe skilling being quite boring and dull it was something to do.. with lower risk...

they should have at least fixed the it as it should be a more efficient weapon then the 2x0 which it isnt now...

arf.

It's been posted before, and before that, but nobody seems to take any notice of what people have said...let's make a nice pretty list so that everybody will be able to understand what I'm talking about

• The Axe 1x0 was unbalanced, it was very common and was very efficient, more efficient than an 'improved' weapon that had a market value over 20,000 times the value of an Axe 1x0. The efficiency might have been cutting into MA's income, which means it must be fixed.
• The damage stats looked bugged, the extra 5 electrical damage was odd, and everybody knew it, but did anybody actually ask MA if it was bugged? If so, I'd like to see a support case.
• Did you ever consider the possibility that the highly efficient 1x0 was introduced with purposely unusual stats, as a test by MA to see the impact on the economy/hunting? They had their back door with the bugged stats /conspiracy theory
• It looked like a bug, MA said it was a bug, so why don't you stop complaining and consider that maybe it was a bug?
• The 1x0 should of been fixed, it was out of place, and too efficient compared to the other weapons. It was an advantage to the people that used it, taking it away wasn't a disadvantage, it was simply removing an unfair advantage.
• It's happened, it's not going to change back, adapt with it, or quit.

Oh wow...
What a can of worms we've opened up.

Mass Hysteria and all of that...

This is very similar to office politics if you ask me.

Just to give the context of what I'm going to say... I work for one of the biggest retailers in New Zealand... in their IT department. I voluntarily joined a team who looks at employee "engagement" within the IT department, because the levels of engagement were so low (for those that don't know what engagement is in this circumstance, it is how connected people feel to their jobs... low engagement normally means high employee turnover, while high engagement means people love their jobs, and want to stay there). We actively monitor levels of engagement, and do things to try and lift those levels. Only recently I managed to get my whole department (IT Helpdesk) a $5-7k/annum raise, by pointing out to management that the reason we lost 8 people in 2 months was because people felt like they were being undervalued in comparison to other people in similar roles in other companies.
So please, before the neg reps start.... see where I am coming from... I do tend to look at issues from both sides.



As for DD, he is someone every company would love. He doesn't get upset by changes very quickly, and likes to come across as the voice of reason. Someone like him can normally do a lot to put a damper on the rage that is felt when a company changes anything.... so yeah.... its all good to have someone who appears to be speaking from the company's point of view... He has made it quite clear he didn't like what I said in some of my earlier posts... but hey... thats his point of view....


Deathifier.. I respect a lot... having put so much money into this game... yeah... that takes gutts. The reason I think he's trying to calm everyone down though, is because his livelihood depends on this game keeping strong, and attracting a lot of new players. If everyone quit suddenly, there would be no demand for his estates, and his investment would go pop.... So yeah I know where he's coming from.

That being said... both of these two's comments do not alter the fact that what MA has done is really shocking. That they said previously that they wouldn't change an items stats is one thing... but that they say that its a bug !!!!! Come on !!!! Its been like this since forever people!!!( A year at least) and they only now want to change it?

Also, whats with all the extra decay on the refiners etc??? Seems like they've just added a whole lot more greed into the equation.... and I think its really sad. I for one would love to see Project Entropia expand and see it lasting for years to come... but I think if it does, its going to be inspite of the fact that MA is doing such a poor job.

I think that because PE is such a great concept, MA has been able to do the absolute bare minimum in terms of customer support and keeping their customers happy... and they've let us, the players, take up all the slack for their ineptitude. I have come to the conclusion that they may be out of their depth... I don't know that they're making a huge profit, if any... there is a chance that they're barely breaking even, and so they're desperate for every little bit of money they can get. If that is the case, then they should possibly be a little more open about it...

If its not like that, then its much worse....we begin to think they're being greedy and trying to make as much money as possible. Pretty much all of the changes made from VU to VU have been to some degree money grabbing tactics... Ah they can out run mobs, only to turn around and shoot them again... "NERF." etc etc etc.

MA I implore you... have a slightly more open-handed policy, and you will be rewarded. I was considering making quite a hefty deposit... Adj FAP and Angel Armour and some nice clothing and amps.... maybe even Shadow armour....but with the recent VU's I have been feeling less and less inclined to do that... I've been depositing a bit...bought my ML35 etc... but I am now not willing to deposit the $500 a month I was willing to deposit previously. Im now not willing to deposit anything in fact. If I was still happy with the way things were going, I could quite easily have been putting in that 5000PED a month....not any more...

And so I wonder how many other people there are like that... I know of at least one other within my immediate group of friends... Im talking someone who actually did put $500 in a month for a few months... but eventually got despondent and quit... And I'm pretty sure there are a lot more people like that out there...

Lets imagine its 10 people.... thats $5000 a month that they're missing out on. But I imagine its more like 1000 people that feel like that... and not a mere 10...

So lets look at what 100x$500 would do.. that would be $500 000 extra per month. Imagine another $500 000 per month within the PE economy? How would that affect loots? How would that affect people's ability to have fun? I imagine it would do quite a bit....

If they could keep us THAT engaged.... imagine how many of the other players who signed up only to get annoyed and leave, would still be here...

It takes people to make this thing work... lots of people... And they really need to build that momentum. PE has yet to reach a critical mass, but if it did, then they wouldn't be sweating about the stupid axes. (Critical mass can be explained by an example of telephones.... who is going to buy a telephone, if there is no one to phone? But once the whole world has telephones, everyone will want one... so the first 100 or so phones would be the most difficult to sell, but as you sell more... it gets easier... and eventually they sell themselves!)


I say what this game really needs is new owners... who have $200 000 000 to throw into the loot pool. Then watch how full it gets, and it will be more popular than WOW or any of those other MMORPGs.... I don't know how they're ever going to reach critical mass... or if they ever will if it carries on like this.

A bit dramatic for a change to one axe. Don't you think?

DD

Devil Doll said:

A bit dramatic for a change to one axe. Don't you think?

DD

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No... don't you see its not just the change to the axe... its the underlying attitude that is the problem... I honestly don't give a flying rats ass about the axes... I hardly used them anyways... (just to graduate through discipleship and that was it)....

Its that they keep doing things to make this game more difficult and more expensive!

Honestly.. what next? My ML35 is unbalanced having so much range, so they're making it 110m, the same as the Camo Arms?
(PLEASE DON'T MA !!!!)

Devil Doll said:

A bit dramatic for a change to one axe. Don't you think?

DD

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I vote we all go to MAHQ and commit mass suicide on their front door step.

Thanks for the negative reps

I just want to thank all the people on the forum who sent me negative reps for questioning MA - attached to a couple were highly abusive messages. Good to know who you are (just to avoid you in-game).

I thought this forum was open to all opinions. I thought that opinion's wouldn't be censored. I thought that if MA heard the voices of its players then it could react... I guess I thought wrong. I thought we also had the right to discuss issues around PE on this forum (hey this isn't rummor we are discussing fact).

If all MA hears is just the people 'stroking' them telling them how wonderful they are - do you think the game will improve? MA needs constructive critisism from players to improve the game and maintain the community around the game. As it stands...well hey some are leaving...some see PE as just a good place to chat...and some are saying Marco think about it the decison, come and explain it and (if necessary) reverse it and then gain the respect and support of your players. Whatever you do engage with your customers. Others think well hey tere will always be a flow of noobs..who cares...well maybe...

As it is all I have seen is players flaming people questioning MA, players defending MA on the most spurious grounds possible (how the loot pool works/ what MA does with its profits), and players just being defeatest (hey MA know best, we all seen it before... you noobs quieten down...we have seen it all pre-gold oh and the I have XXXX thousand in longblades ..I don't give a flying XXXX).

WTF is going on here. We are the customers...I have personally paid thousands of dollars to pay. I have my right to tell MA that this move stinks and that the way MA communicated this move stinks and to discuss this. Hey maybe someone will give me some information which really explains this move.

For those who have called me a TWAT and other abusive names...grow up please.

For those of you who thought we should just roll with the punches...hell yes I will ...I don't need longblades...but I have a lot of friends who do.

Oh and + reps to those who have spoken and questioned the decision - and got flamed for their efforts (I have had PMs from a few who said the reponse from some players was so strong they wouldn't be posting again).

So thanks again to all the people who gave me negative reps - nice to know exactly who you are.

I notice you left out your thanks for those who debated the otherside of the spectrum. Those who debated fairly on why this was a good move. Nice bias.

DD

Taking bets on how long from when MB logs on till this thread gets locked!

gurkha said:

Taking bets on how long from when MB logs on till this thread gets locked!

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I hope we'll get an answer from MA(rco) first.....

This needs to be debated and discussed.... locking this thread will cause more harm than good..

Although that being said, the people on MA's side of this discussion don't seem to be very convincing.... or should I say, they have yet to convince me.

The Mighty said:

I hope we'll get an answer from MA(rco) first.....

This needs to be debated and discussed.... locking this thread will cause more harm than good..

Although that being said, the people on MA's side of this discussion don't seem to be very convincing.... or should I say, they have yet to convince me.

Click to expand...

Marco can lock and unlock threads as he see's fit

Marco posted on another thread, and didn't post on the last Axe thread, so I don't predict him posting here.

C'mon Marco, prove me wrong

God, if you didnt know that that MindArk changes bugged items you must be uba mega nooba. And with those stupid axes with 5.17 dmg/pec..what is the need for imk2 and such items? they only got 4.72 dmg/pec.. Thats some .45 dmg/pecs diffrence. And i´d say that we all knew that axes were bugged..the only item/items which sould have over imk2s effiecny is Unique

The Mighty said:

I hope we'll get an answer from MA(rco) first.....

This needs to be debated and discussed.... locking this thread will cause more harm than good..

Although that being said, the people on MA's side of this discussion don't seem to be very convincing.... or should I say, they have yet to convince me.

Click to expand...

There is nothing left to discuss. Every angle has been presented and, as with many issues, not all are in agreement. The thread is dead. Reread it if you like but there isn't any other angle that could be presented at this point. IMO of course

DD

Jeeez, some people have had too much whine

I didn't bother to read everything carefully, but here are my two pecs.

1. I don't understand the discussion of that MA didn't tell before they made the change. It was clearly stated in the VU list before the VU was applied . What Marco probably meant was that they will never do "hidden" changes to stats on items. And what would have changed if they said it a week in advance instead of some hours?

2. And was it bugged? Yes and no. Not in the way you normally define a bug as, but it was probably some dev who slipped on his/her keyboard when creating stats on the item.

3. I don't understand what Kerhams work has to do with a virtual axe

But what i do think was bad of MA is that they should have fixed the "bug" immediatly, not after this long period of time.

i think this is becoming a bit out of topic. I think this post wasnt meant to complain about the change, but they way MA announced and done it.

Personally i agree with the change, but i dont usually smile when other people call me stupid.

But maybe thats just me...

Marco: "lets add axes"
MA Staff Monkey: "ok"
Artist: "ok"

.....

Marco: "here's the stats for the axes, please enter them into the item descriptions and database"
MA Intern: "ok.. *whistle* *cough*"
MA Intern: "hrm, there seems to be a typo on this first one, is this penetration or electrical? Maybe it's both. doo-do-do."
MA QA: "booga booga, me like bananas! Testing done now. Me go home. You launch VU."
Marco: "Another job well done. Time for vacation."

....

Marco: "I looked at the logs, why is everybody using the Axe 1x0?"
Intern: "Duh, cause it's the most efficient item in the game. Don't you play anymore?"
Marco: "Wha??"
QA: "Chocolate good!"
Marco: "Oops. You seem to have entered the wrong data in the item description."
Intern: "No I didn't, you wrote it that way."
Marco: "That's a coffee stain, you moron!"
Intern: "Does this mean that I don't get a cool blue and white coat?"
Marco: "..."
QA: "Mmm. Good hamster!"
Intern: "Should we fix the item?"
Marco: "Maybe next vu."
Intern: "Should we make an announcement? Admit we made a mistake?"
Marco: "No way."
Intern: "Why not? Won't the players all get angry when we change it?"
Marco: "That's not how we operate here."
Intern: "Why not admit we made a mistake?"
QA: "Hey, it works for George Bush."

TheClansman said:

i think this is becoming a bit out of topic. I think this post wasnt meant to complain about the change, but they way MA announced and done it.

Personally i agree with the change, but i dont usually smile when other people call me stupid.

But maybe thats just me...

Click to expand...

EXACTLY !!!!!!

rei

fuckin i need a break......

Why do people think that everyone needs to freak out and threaten to quit and have a nervous breakdown to get MA to hear us? We can calmly say 'Hey this sux, MA we need more info here!' In my experience, Marco avoids the more volatile threads and posts in the one with questions instead of accusations. We haven't heard from MA yet. Maybe they'll reverse it, though I doubt that. Maybe we could convince MA to meet us halfway. Give us back half of the dmg lost to the bug - even if it's just the ones dropped before the VU. Although honestly, how many more axes do you think they could drop? Nearly everyone has several axes already.
I'm glad to see this thread calming down. Let's hope it gets calmer still.

just got this visiting my head:

both parties have valid reasons, however we all have a bitter taste.

perhaps, instead of at the "bugged axe 1x0 is fixed" end of the upgrade list that could be done like this:

"axe 1x0 has been altered to fix a incorrect setting, electric damage will be removed if repared at terminal".

(this way we could have kept them as souveniers - at least an option)

or better yet:

"axe 1x0 has been altered to fix an incorrect setting of electric damage - if repared at terminal it will be removed (elec dmg), if you desire to keep it at present condition you can have it repared by the crafter at the factory at a later time".

and have special setting to take off the missing ped/pecs in grafter/decay costs - not sure if this is clear enough. go to crafter and pay 7peds to full tt +50pecs for the repare/decay and/or grafter's service

what do you think? (if you think it is a good idea give pos rep to me, if you think it is bad idea neg rep. what to have more green thingies then DD

Onica... The point is that we're not particularly upset about the axes. We're upset with the way MA handled this.

While they SHOULD have warned us before changing, they don't need to. They never said that they won't change item stats (only that they rarely will). They have stated that bugs will eventually be fixed. This was the only axe with electrical, so it was clearly a bug. Even if they had warned before the change, people would still get upset and complain about it, but that wouldn't have stopped it. For all purposes ingame, MINDARK IS GOD, so just quit/get over it

Uh, ya I got that Mighty. I'm not thrilled with the lack of information from MA. But I've only ever seen their communication level improve. It has been slow, but it is better than when I started. My point still stands. There is no point in having a panic attack over it. MA must be very busy after a VU. And they must really look forward to the weekend after it. My guess is we'll hear more about this on Monday. VU listings are not known for their detail.

Hmm, I started lb skilling when there were only those StarWars swords available, I skilled with two enblade-2's. I had one enblade-8 for emergencies. Swing was slow, it costed a lot but I was inspired by some
pro-swordsmen (there were maybe 2 or 5 players over 4k in the game at
that time ). I killed sabakumas to sky-high piles .

Then came Katsuichis, and then axes. I bought 2 1x0s by tt+30 peds.
I remember the general opinion was that axe 1x0 was bugged and it was
to be fixed. I may remember wrong but this might have been discussed
also in a chat session, maybe logs can be found somewhere? Especially
the statistics experts commented it is an anomaly which may get tuned
some day.

Then, during the last summer, I axed around with a kind of Alabama
blues, being pretty sure the axe will be balanced. It was easy to guess
the change was coming, simply by looking around. So, time to axe
madly around then, like everybody else!

Now, after testing it, I still go on with 1x0, at least for next 600 skill levels.
The dmg is OK, profit or loss is OK. I guess the market price of axe settles
somewhere to tt+0.5..1.0, depending on the future drop rate. I simply
have to forget the previous stats.

I guess MA cannot tell us the detailed roadmap, it could cause mad
disturbances in the economy. And those details would change, as they
do in any software project, where the product is rolled out already.

This thing whit these bloody 1x0 axes is only 1 easy thing to point out and be mad about. But the main issue here might now be the fackt that the game is caming more and more expensive to play. And theres this proplem whit it.... Its only a one game. Sure its players enjoy to play it, at least i do like it a lot. But why to hell would i need to spent more than 20-40$ per month in a game. Whats the gain. This game is caming VU to VU more expensive. and in every VU there has been somethng that had made me feel bad. I feel that MA wants more money. And thats the broblem. I dont want to think about money when playing... but now they are pullig stunts that make me think money all the time. In my opinnion the game is evolving in the wrong direction... They need more players. They shouldnt just try to suck out money whit these litle adjustments.

I think that it would have caused even more hysteria if MA wrote "Axe was changed due to being unbalanced" than "Axe was bugged". Maybe they were just trying to avoid the worst while still making a change they had to make?

Ok.

DevilDoll, Gurkha, Sarah, Deathifier. (I don't include other 15-years-like post saying "so what?")

I don't know what ties you and MA but you have strangely offtopic posts with a interesting persistance of driving the discussion in a dead end.

A great plus for Deathifier, however, the man knows how to speak. Even if "if MA decided is a bug, then is a bug". That is a rusty rationament. If they suddenly decide to walk instead of using cars, is their business. Trying to change a general-accepted definition of "bug" is completely different.

So, DevilDoll, Gurkha, Sarah.

Thanks for your efforts, shows my thread is interesting. However your puny -rep can't counterbalance the other 25 +rep i received. I am not exactly a rep hunter, but I think it means something.

I believe you are all mathures. Maybe DevilDoll might suffer from dislexia (repeteative confusing a word for another), coz his posts seem furibund on this matter.

The point was that:

Mindark mistaken when made axes 1x0 having 5 electrical damage. They should admit and honestly comunicate that.

NOT the reason behind, DeviDoll, sincerely, if u can't understand what I said already 5 times, please go back to gymnasium (you know what is that, right?)

Gurkha: as far as I know, you are not moderator of the forum, so please stop qualifying my thread one way or another. I sincerely believed you are one opened and helpful guy, but..

Sarah.. no need to answer to you tho.. you are blocked in a certain area of understanding and you don't want or can to to pass over it.

and about EULA. cmon guys, when EULA breaks legal assesments in my country, I don;t give a shit about it

So, the point remains, and I haven't seen any valid counter-answer:

That was a mistake, not a bug, Tho, they announced it as a bug. That is wrong to us, the customers (you three, are you sure you;re in 'customers' position, btw?)

If you can;t sense the difference between mistake and bug or if you don;t care the height of feeling disappointed by a statement, please don;t post here.

regards,

K

P.S.: thanks everyone who posted ontopic, through that you sustained the topic and hopefully Marco understood he made a begginer's mistake in PR.