Punishment!

Corporal Punishment in schools. What are your views? Should it be brought back in schools? Or left in the 80s when it was finally abolished? Do you think that CP in schools has had a positive or negative effect on pupils in the long run? Do you think CP is cruel or just? Do you think abolishing CP in modern day has had a positive or negative effect on today's pupils?
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Corporal Punishment in homes... It is legal in the UK and many other European countries, however some countries have abolished *all* CP. Do you think parents have the right to smack their children? Or do you think all forms of physical punishment, whether it be in the home or at school are wrong?

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I remember when I was a young girl at primary school (ages 5 - 11 for anyone unsure). When I first started school I used to hear all the horror stories about the Primary 7 teacher who used the belt. His aim was perfect and his strikes were so powerful that he could turn a whole piece of chalk into dust in a split second. This terrified me as a kid... we used to hear him roaring at the primary 7 kids in the building across the way during our lessons... it was terrifying for a 5 or 6 year old, lol.
Funnily enough though, none of us ever stepped one foot out of line at school for fear of being sent to Mr Black for a "telling off"... all through my years at my school I was very well behaved, got outstanding marks in tests etc and was even offered to be pushed forward 2 years at school from primary 5 - primary 7. I got upset and refused to go forward as it would mean being a pupil under Mr Black which, even though I was so polite and well behaved meant that I'd surely never be subjected to his wrath, the thought scared me so much it made me sick to the stomach.

My academic achievments all through my schooling were outstanding. Sometimes I think it's all due to that teacher and just the thought that if I had ever stepped out of line all hell would come tearing at me. I was never subject to corporal punishment at school (and thankfully by the time I *did* reach primary 7 it was abolished! Heh).

I've thought about this before as well and its very hard to choose a side. A problem with having this in schools is that teachers could very well abuse this Right, and I'm sure the majority that would do it, WOULD abuse it, either physically or mentally/emotionally. So in this respect, no I don't believe that CP should exist in a public institution.

At home, however, that's a different story. The only issue with this is that you will have to walk the fine line of not abusing and causing emotional distress that will have a negative lasting effect on the kids. One day I went to a Chinese place in my town and ordered a Hot n Sour Soup. While waiting, I saw the woman-owner grab her 4-5 yr old daughter and just beat the heck out of her with her open hand!! She lifted her up and smacked her on her butt like 20-30 times HARD (don't know how she didn't pull her shoulder from her socket) !! I couldn't believe what I was seeing and felt like calling the police (which thinking back, I should have done so), but just interrupted her and told her to cancel my order! She was like, "WHY : ?! Why you wanna cancel order?! ", while HUFFING and PUFFING! Dumb ass mother! "See ya", and I left.

There's always the threat of adults crossing that line where it no longer becomes discipline, but abuse.

On the other hand, I have noticed a great deal of disrespecting by the adolescents/teenagers towards their elders/adults (and one another for that matter)! I THINK that this is a direct cause of parents no longer disciplining them with CP. I get SICK TO MY stomache when I see a 4 yr old wrecking havoc on a public place and the mother/father are just standing there like nothing is happening !! HEELLLOOOO!! Don't let your kids do whatever they feel like doing! They need guidelines! They need boundaries! Without these, they will not know what's right and what's wrong! Parents need to get TOUGH on their kids and stop taking shiit from them. Seeing kids do whatever they feel, and worse, SAYING whatever they feel, is like seeing society going backwards right in front of my eyes.

I guess my opinion is that you have to walk the fine line of not abusing, but disciplining your kids with CP if needed. Most cases, you might need it, and adults need to have the guts to stand by it and discipline kids so that they know who's boss. They need a role model and doing this will make you a great role model (notice we never hear of parents being role models anymore?! )

SnapNet said:

At home, however, that's a different story. The only issue with this is that you will have to walk the fine line of not abusing and causing emotional distress that will have a negative lasting effect on the kids. One day I went to a Chinese place in my town and ordered a Hot n Sour Soup. While waiting, I saw the woman-owner grab her 4-5 yr old daughter and just beat the heck out of her with her open hand!! She lifted her up and smacked her on her butt like 20-30 times HARD (don't know how she didn't pull her shoulder from her socket) !! I couldn't believe what I was seeing and felt like calling the police (which thinking back, I should have done so), but just interrupted her and told her to cancel my order! She was like, "WHY : ?! Why you wanna cancel order?! ", while HUFFING and PUFFING! Dumb ass mother! "See ya", and I left.

There's always the threat of adults crossing that line where it no longer becomes discipline, but abuse.

On the other hand, I have noticed a great deal of disrespecting by the adolescents/teenagers towards their elders/adults (and one another for that matter)! I THINK that this is a direct cause of parents no longer disciplining them with CP. I get SICK TO MY stomache when I see a 4 yr old wrecking havoc on a public place and the mother/father are just standing there like nothing is happening !! HEELLLOOOO!! Don't let your kids do whatever they feel like doing! They need guidelines! They need boundaries! Without these, they will not know what's right and what's wrong! Parents need to get TOUGH on their kids and stop taking shiit from them. Seeing kids do whatever they feel, and worse, SAYING whatever they feel, is like seeing society going backwards right in front of my eyes.

I guess my opinion is that you have to walk the fine line of not abusing, but disciplining your kids with CP if needed. Most cases, you might need it, and adults need to have the guts to stand by it and discipline kids so that they know who's boss. They need a role model and doing this will make you a great role model (notice we never hear of parents being role models anymore?! )

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I couldn't agree with you more!

I think CP in the home is absolutely fine as long as it's administered properly. For example I've seen parents screaming at their children and grabbing them in public and smacking them across the head, neck pick your spot they'll smack it. They just seem to lose control.

I believe that if I ever have kids a good hard smack across the bare arse in the privacy our our own home and a good firm telling off explaining WHY they are being punished etc will suffice.

I too get annoyed when I see parents let their kids run amock in restaurants, annoying other people, being disrespectful to adults and just plain nightmares. Yes, in 99% of these cases I believe it is the parents fault and how they completely fail at disciplining their children.

When I was young a good telling off could come from any adult.. not just your parents. These days with political correctness gone wild it's different. Adults are afraid to tell someone elses child off for fear of being prosectued... in fact let's face it. Some parents fear prosecution also.

I remember when I hit my teens and started acting up a bit... I'd come home smelling of alcohol (pissed out my face tbh) at 15yrs old or so. My nan went crazy at me. Gave me a good bollocking, grounded me for a month and a whack across the face and rushed up to my room. I whirled back round on her and said "If you touch me one more time I'm going to report you to the police for abusing a minor".... well... I got told "If you ever EVER threaten me with that again I will give you something to report!".. I got another whack on the face and the grounding was extended to 2 months... needless to say I shut up

Voted YES. If it is allowed and the students KNOW it is allowed, that has a value too. How many times did we as kids growing up think... "Why not do that... nothing is going to happen anyway..?"

It has a value as a deterrent even if it is never used. Kinda like nuclear war

Heh ... I clicked the Yes button and almost don't believe I did it.

I grew up in a corporal punishment environment (both at home and at school) and although at the time I was scared shitless of getting punished, I firmly believe it did me good. I studied well and there were no problems with my behaviour and I think it contributed to the successful person I am now.

Parents are so weak with thier children and it causes growing children to disrespect everything (inc. other people, their teachers, property etc. etc.). Granted there are exceptions to the rules, but I'd prefer to see people stopped being wimps with children. They can take it - honestly - and if they're acting out of line then they should take it.

And one other point - in your post above, I think it was the threat of that teacher that kept you in line rather than any actual physical punishment and this is 90% of what CP is.

Of course, on the other hand, the liberal in me thinks "define what 'out of line' is please".

CP, properly administered is necessary, IMHO, ...
BUT, to my thinking, there are far too many inept teachers out there to simply open up CP as an option in public schools.

Discipline is far too complex an issue for a simple answer here.

As for at home, allow me a story:
I have one granddaughter who is now at an age where she must find her own way in the world. He parents often threatened her a beating, or with a smack or some such, and rarely ever gave her said smack. She grew up never taking them seriously. In contrast, I never once threatened her with any sort of punishment, but when she was around 6 years, she was with me and my uncle while we were trying to accomplish something with a car (the particular task is lost to memory now) and she was making a nuisance of herself. I had enough, and smacked her smartly on the backside (once), and scolded her. She of course ran to her mom, who, predictably came out to scold me for smacking HER kid. I told her the issue was between the kid and myself, and we were not going to discuss it.
Well short story, I am the only adult this kid will actually listen to, and whose advice she will follow, and she never again misbehaved in my presence.

A few well applied smacks in the early years, followed by sound advice and guidance can make a big difference in how a youth grows up.
Corporal punishment should be immediate, swift, and reserved for specific infractions, and followed fairly quickly with reassurance that it was not a rejection of the child, but rejection of the behavior.

One the other hand, far too many adults will wait until they are completely at wit's end before they apply any corporal punishment, and then they carry it way too far.

One should Never hit a child in anger, IMHO.

OK, off my soapbox.

Photon said:

And one other point - in your post above, I think it was the threat of that teacher that kept you in line rather than any actual physical punishment and this is 90% of what CP is.

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Absolutely. I agree with you 100%. I found that in my secondary school (post-abolishment) things were very different. The abuse some of our teachers took was disgusting. One of my teachers actually had a nervous breakdown and quit teaching due to extremely caustic verbal and physical abuse from children. It's a crying shame they way things have deteriorated in schools.

Photon said:

Of course, on the other hand, the liberal in me thinks "define what 'out of line' is please".

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Back when I was younger and CP was still around.. I think things like fighting, being cheeky to teachers, bunking off school were considered being out of line.

Nowadays I guess being out of line might involve a student beating a teacher up or going into a classroom and opening up on their classmates with an automatic weapon... can you even CONCEIVE of such a thing happening when you were at school? I know I cant. Heh.

I voted yes and no because like with nearly everything in life this is a grey area.
Personally I was never submitted to CP and believe it would not necessarily have been positive for me.

But also I always was a mild person in any regards, never had a wild side which would have needed restriction.

With the right reasons and at the right measure I believe CP can be used in a good way.

A good kick in ass did never kill anyone... and often did make things go a better way...
Now , sadly , in som case , it become som kind of torture... whish not a lesson or anything good...
I dont think problem is the CP in it self , if it done the right way... problem is the amount of asshole in that world...
I think for teacher , but even for parents , there should be som kind of liscence...

With car , you will maybe destruct other people life if you behave bad...
With child , it is prety sure...

Even for animal there is liscence...There liscence for evrything in many country but for beeing parents... like if taking care of child was the less important things , and the most easy... IMHO , its the other way around.

Normal I would say make the world open PvP that way you can just whip their A$$

Unfortunately there would just be 5k random pk'ers running around ( very reason I stopped playing some other MMO's

I didnt have CP in school (its not allowed here in Norway) and I think I turned out fine?
I had top grades, I behaved well etc.. most of my class seem pretty okay today. At the same time tho I wasnt so scared of the teachers that I didnt dare to say anything, if I thought that the teachers were out of line.
And to be honest I think thats a important factor.

I am all for diciplining. But using CP I think IMO should be up to the parents. If the CP is out of line then child services should be called in.

Nowadays here they get their cellphones taken away, sent to the hallways/Rector, they have to stay back at school and everything gets reported home if the kids do anything out of line (at which point it is up to the parents to decide what to do)

If the kid has proper respect for his/hers parents imo I think the kid would behave without them being around aswell, at least as long as they know the parents will find out.

I for one know that I dont want anyone touching my kids (when I get some) for whatever reason they have.

SnapNet said:

While waiting, I saw the woman-owner grab her 4-5 yr old daughter and just beat the heck out of her with her open hand!! She lifted her up and smacked her on her butt like 20-30 times HARD (don't know how she didn't pull her shoulder from her socket) !! I

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One smack with medium strength would be enough to make the child understand she was doing wrong.

But beating her out?

Thats wrong, and if i saw that in front of me, i'd confront the woman and make her stop.

In another thread im talking about precisely this, punishment to keep things in place, and how it can have benefits.

It should be very moderated however. Especially if you are talking young children up to 12 years. 1 smack on the butt with medium strength, just so the child understands she's doing wrong.

We never had cpl punishment in my state and I turned out to be horrible. That lasted untill I joined the Army.

I think trash talkers should just get the hind end beat. That's what happened in the good ole days and people generally didn't have that problem out of other people. Now if only that could be integrated into the game with out the random pk'ers....

ohhhh,, please dont get me started.

Friggin gutless American parents that do not want to be responsible for anything. Idiot Politicians that are clueless on how to raise kids. Kids that are being left to fend for themselves or so spoiled rotten that they will pay someone to take their punishment. The lack of responsibility and morals has turned our country into a joke for the rest of the world. Money and popularity rules. Our laws are being modified when it comes to the "special " people.

I grew up fearing the yardstick from the teacher and had a couple broken over my ass on occasion when warranted. Yardstick first, then detention, then explusion for the day. Try explaining that to your parents... Dad's response was to send me outside my room to the willow tree and pick my switch. I knew when I messed up and I expected to get smacked for it.

Problem is,, parents set the example for the kids. What example is being set for them today ? Drugs are okay if your popular (Brittany), driving while drinking is okay if your popular (various movie stars), sex under age, pregnant by older boyfriend is okay (Brittany's sis), drunk and disorderly and posession of a handgun (several sports stars),, the list never ends. Not to mention the adultery by our politicians, which is all forgiven by their wives (where is Lorraine Bobbit now). How about the 1 or 2 day marriages by the stars. My point being is that children are impressionable and need an example to live up too. Punishing your child as you were punished does not fit any more. If they complain to a teacher then Human Services gets called in and your child is taken away. Hell,, you cant even home school your kids now with the new laws.

I am all for teaching kids how to respect and teach them right and wrong. I do try to set the example (ignore the money I have thrown into this game,, very irresponsible ) To answer the question,, yes. Responsible parents / teachers should be able to punish children if the situation warrants it.

Now let me break out my ml and go kill this horse I just rode in on

FilthyMcNasty said:

That's what happened in the good ole days and people generally didn't have that problem out of other people.

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There were bad seeds in the 'good ol days' too And I think the phrase "BAH! Youth today...!" has been used since jesus lost his sandals.

Redster said:

ohhhh,, please dont get me started.

Friggin gutless American parents that do not want to be responsible for anything. Idiot Politicians that are clueless on how to raise kids. Kids that are being left to fend for themselves or so spoiled rotten that they will pay someone to take their punishment. The lack of responsibility and morals has turned our country into a joke for the rest of the world. Money and popularity rules. Our laws are being modified when it comes to the "special " people.

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Quoted for truth. IMHO parent's are either afraid of child protection or just too damned lazy to give a crap, both of mine was in either of those categories.

I guess times change over the years for better or for worse.

NO!!!! Teaching shouldn`t be taming. Whoever hits a child deserves to go to jail.

Skam said:

I didnt have CP in school (its not allowed here in Norway) and I think I turned out fine?

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Same here, I believe that there are other (and more effective) ways to discipline students than physical punishment. The school I went to was very strict compared to other public schools I've heard about. Even being tardy to class by a minute (sometimes not being in your seat), more than a couple times would result in detention and parents being notified. If that didnt work it wasn't long before suspension.

I absolutely believe that nobody other than parents have the right to discipline their kids in the physical sense. Even though I was disciplined with "CP" I don't believe it is a productive way of discipline. It may have its place for younger children who you can't have a reasonable discussion about the situation and Why its wrong but I believe its way out of line any older than that.

I do completely agree that parents need to discipline their children more in many situations. The way they act in public, especially restaurants. I just don't agree that physically disciplining them is the correct solution.

Many people have emotional problems stemming from this or even go on to become more violent to others or their own kids when they have them.

Where would you draw the line anyways if it were to be practiced in schools? When would it be considered abuse?

This is an interesting discussion as we are from all different parts of the world on this forum and I'm curious as to how everyone else views this. I am honestly suprised by all in favor of the school use of it.

(Side Note: actually never heard of it called "Corporal Punishment". Always heard that referred to a system in certain countries: Steal - get your hand chopped off or Lie - tongue cut out) So i was suprised to hear it called that.

Mikass said:

NO!!!! Teaching shouldn`t be taming. Whoever hits a child deserves to go to jail.

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Punishment doesn't necessarily mean beating.

Just take away cellphones, tv, ipod, computer, ps3, psp, nintendo ds. etc.

When your kids get up in the morning beat them! Get it over with for the day

If you don't punish them while they're young they turn out to be pansies in the future.

No.

Hitting kids - one way or another - is after my opinion an admission to failure.

My concern is at the teachers who doesn't know when to stop. Where is the guidelines - where is the limit and who will make sure it's being obeyed? You have seen it in old days in DK where punishment of kids went way off to the limit, where it wasn't good for anything else than for the teacher to reach a self-assertion or get even on an act from a pupil. If a teacher doesn't like a sertain pupil it can easily turn into a witch hunt and that can ruin a childs life forever.

The old frace "a little spanking never hurted anyone" - is not correct. All kind of punishment - being verbal or physical hurts. Though I have heard lots of times people saying that getting a rap over the knuckles is far better than getting a verbal punishment - or a psychical punishment like ignorance etc. because when the punishment is done - it's over with and you can move on.

It is the parents responsibility and yes, parents are weak today. I'm weak - I can't deny it. I have never touched my kids - and I never will. But my weakness is also my strength! I'm not into the "let's drink tea and talk about it while you step on me a few times more"-idea. I choose to punish with other stuff like "no phone for a week" "no internet connection" "no freetime money" etc. I have a teenage-daguther (15) with ADHD. I never understood why no punishment helped her. Today I do. And hitting her when she didnt listen, behaved, did something wrong, would not have helped her at all. Quite the reverse. It has been hell at times still - but non of us would have gained anything if I hit her.

All kids are different and all kids should be handled differently. Some kids needs much more attention than others - and unfortunately it's placed on the poor teachers which at least in DK is pressed to the extreme and one teacher can't handle a class with 25-30 pupils, which a normal Danish class is containning. This results in a lot of ill teachers and no new good teachers to take over. The children lack respect because the teachers can't handle them - and they show weakness. They might have given rid of the spanking (which I think is good) - but at the same time the schools got rid of a lot of other nice values, which would learn the children to respect the school and the teachers they have (which I find to be not that good).

It IS difficult - I have failed a lot. And I must admit that I sometimes wondered if a clap in the butt would have helped - but seriously, I doubt it.

What WOULD help though, if the kids doesn't behave in school, is to punish the parents. If the teachers can't have the kids in school because it can't behave, fine the parents. If the kid is ruining stuff around in the society, graphiti etc. - fine the parents.

Dunno if it helps, but in DK we do that in some cases, and it DOES help - but I will at all time say no to CP.

How many times did I wish I could hit other peoples kids? Let's have that as another discussion main is, I didn't do it So in the end I see myself as being the strongest!

i said yes and no, yes as long as its consensual. i like a bit of kink

Fodders said:

When your kids get up in the morning beat them! Get it over with for the day

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ROFL! +rep

omebius said:

i said yes and no, yes as long as its consensual. i like a bit of kink

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... she didnt mean spanking YOU ....

Photon said:

ROFL! +rep

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Haha I liked that comment also...

It's really interesting to see what people from different parts of the world think about this.

It's great that there are some countries where behaviour problems are not an issue.

I wonder if behavoural issues in some countries actually stem from having CP in place one day and then having it taken away the next.. possibly resulting in a kind of rebellion which led to a trend?

Who knows... all I know is that when someone tells another person in the UK that they are a secondary school teacher, they instantly get comments like "oh... you're brave, haha" or "Wow... how can you do it"

ultimababe said:

It's really interesting to see what people from different parts of the world think about this.

It's great that there are some countries where behaviour problems are not an issue.

I wonder if behavoural issues in some countries actually stem from having CP in place one day and then having it taken away the next.. possibly resulting in a kind of rebellion which led to a trend?

Who knows... all I know is that when someone tells another person in the UK that they are a secondary school teacher, they instantly get comments like "oh... you're brave, haha" or "Wow... how can you do it"

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Heh, i wonder why

Bunch of spoiled, spoon fed babies. They should be kept under strict rules, not this liberal crap that is ruining the respect of the young for the elders.

ultimababe said:

Corporal Punishment in schools. What are your views? Should it be brought back in schools? Or left in the 80s when it was finally abolished? Do you think that CP in schools has had a positive or negative effect on pupils in the long run? Do you think CP is cruel or just? Do you think abolishing CP in modern day has had a positive or negative effect on today's pupils?
...
Corporal Punishment in homes... It is legal in the UK and many other European countries, however some countries have abolished *all* CP. Do you think parents have the right to smack their children? Or do you think all forms of physical punishment, whether it be in the home or at school are wrong?
Heh).

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Well it is NO,

cause sometimes my wife misbehaves, and I found it much harder to reason with her then with my teenage son

and if we plan to resurrect the thing of the past - CP for kids, we should first bring back CP for wifes and perhaps girlfriends.

and if our so-to-speak-out-of-hands kids will burn down the world, then so be it

Skam said:

There were bad seeds in the 'good ol days' too And I think the phrase "BAH! Youth today...!" has been used since jesus lost his sandals.

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Even before , since there is text from the antique greek , i think it is from platon,or maybe socrate , that say something in the form of , nowday young stuff are shit , when i was young it was better...