MONETA BANK -Twin temp. closed

LarsMac said:

Remember that MA has guaranteed these banks.
That was the whole point of the banking system.
So your stuff should be safe.

Perhaps the first test of this theory.

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I don't think they ever guaranteed that you won't lose an item because the bank's doors were closed. I suppose they could have hidden such a statement in the small print, but I thought I had read that too.

Do you have a source for your statement of guarantee?

Actually, MA's own left hand often doesn’t know what the right hand is doing, to guarantee anything. And I doubt they would guarantee anything regarding a markup, only tt value maybe.

Svarog said:

Actually, MA's own left hand often doesn’t know what the right hand is doing, to guarantee anything. And I doubt they would guarantee anything regarding a markup, only tt value maybe.

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Midori Fairlona said:

I don't think they ever guaranteed that you won't lose an item because the bank's doors were closed. I suppose they could have hidden such a statement in the small print, but I thought I had read that too.

Do you have a source for your statement of guarantee?

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From here, for one,

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/839343-post1.html


And most specifically from this post:

Recently MindArk PE AB issued official virtual banking licenses. These licenses comprise a secured bank system for processing loans and securities in the form of items. All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.


So, if, for some reason, the bank owner fails to hold up his/her end, MA has guaranteed the transaction, and if you are able to meet your end of the deal, then MA supports the banks end.

I would assume MA has a back-up plan to assist you in recovering your item, by paying them the agreed upon fees, which they can then hold for the bank until the bank can sort out their access.

Lighterthief said:

lol lol and thrice lol

so has anyone actualy lost a item due to this?

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Luckily Im not ^^ ROFL

I must admit allowing maintenance fees to go unpaid doesn't instill confidence. To do it once can maybe explained away but twice is just insane...

Maintenance fees

Hi,


Moneta Bank maintenance fees are paid until August.

BTW.
All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.


David

David|MindArk said:

Hi,


Moneta Bank maintenance fees are paid until August.

BTW.
All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.


David

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I haven't took much notice of the banks so have no idea how the licenses work. Hypothetically speaking though. I assume with this you mean that anyone that does takre out a loan and for whatever reason a bank (god forbid) goes bust you will either a allow the payments be made to Mindark? or you would return the item that was put up as collatoral?

David|MindArk said:

Hi,


Moneta Bank maintenance fees are paid until August.

BTW.
All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.


David

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Hi David,
you may reread the thread again, since your post still doesn't anwser the question asked in this thread. The actuall question was:

Does MindArk also garantuee that the item will be returned to it's proper powner if it was defaulted, while the bank was inaccessible due to maintanance fee.

To make it more clear, i'll do an example:
Let's assume Uber Joe put's his ImpMKII to get a loan in order to bid on an LA auction. He takes a credit/loan of 200.000 PED for 14 days. The bank he used for the load only has 7 days left before maintainance fee expires. The auction lasts 7 days. 7 days later, he won the auction and use his creditcard to put money in to pay off his loan.
With his new deposited 200.000 PED he goes to the bank, but realize that he can't access the bank. For some unknown reason the bank owner can't come ingame to pay the maintanance fee (or doesn't want to pay it of to get this ImpMKII if he's a really evil guy). Now 8 days later (1 day after Uber Joes loan is defaulted), he the owner pays the maintanace fee and gets all the defaulted items in the past 8 days, also Uber Joes ImpMKII.

What will MindArk do now? According to your anwser David, this item would rightfully belong to the bankowner, since Uber Joe did the loan and only thing you said above is that the deal/transactions are guarantueed (i.e. if Uber Joe pays off his loan before it expires he will get it 100%ig because this is what you said that MindArk guarantuees). So Uber Joe wouldn't get his ImpMKII back according to your post, right? (unless the bank owner gives him back in a personal trade, but it's up to the bank owner right?)

You formulation is pretty vague and not very clear, which just shows me that you haven't read the thread and really understood the problem which was related to this question. It would be appreciate if you could clearly anwser the question in this specific case, instead of a (too general) copy and paste anwser.

Tseng

I have read the whole thread and without having to make an example of every different case scenario I state the following:


All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.


David

It doesn't anwser the question what happens if loans are defaulted while the bank was closed due to maintanance fee expired.

Will MindArk force the bank owners to give back the items (if their original owner has the money he needed to pay back)? Yes or no.

Edit:
The question is important, because the loan-taker has no chance to pay off his loan when the bank is closed due to maintanance fee. This is a big problem which is unanwsered yet and not covered by the EULA/any statement.

I guess clarification will arrive when one of the situations arises

Then it would already be too late. And it wouldn't only lower/destory the faith in the bank owner, but also in MindArk themself.

Imho that we (the players) deserve to get an anwser what will happen in such a case, because this case could potentionally be exploited to gain items of others (not saying that someone of the 4 banks would do this intentionally, but the possibility is there).

Tseng said:

Then it would already be too late. And it wouldn't only lower/destory the faith in the bank owner, but also in MindArk themself.

Imho that we (the players) deserve to get an anwser what will happen in such a case, because this case could potentionally be exploited to gain items of others (not saying that someone of the 4 banks would do this intentionally, but the possibility is there).

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.

yes there is the possibility. But why do it? The banks had to put 1million peds cashflow in on top of what they paid for the license. So why try and con people out of items that you would then have to try and sell anyway? Doesn't make good business sense that

However, would be interesting to know HOW mindark guarantee all transactions.

Im sorry if I did not make myself clear but:

All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.


David

David|MindArk said:

Hi,


Moneta Bank maintenance fees are paid until August.

BTW.
All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.


David

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David|MindArk said:

I have read the whole thread and without having to make an example of every different case scenario I state the following:


All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.


David

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David|MindArk said:

Im sorry if I did not make myself clear but:

All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.


David

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This makes me think that you're no real person, but a bot who automaticly copy n paste some anwsers triggered by a few keywords?

We have acknowledged that you can copy and paste (we already know it from support cases on the official site). Why is it that you refuse to anwser the question asked in this thread for the 3rd time?


Is it so hard to anwser a yes or no to the question below?

Tseng said:

It doesn't anwser the question what happens if loans are defaulted while the bank was closed due to maintanance fee expired.

Will MindArk force the bank owners to give back the items (if their original owner has the money he needed to pay back)? Yes or no.

Click to expand...

Or am i right to assume that you haven't covered this case in your company and thus refuse to anwser and say "No, players won't get their items back if they are defaulted while the bank was closed due to maintanance fee expired" in fear of bad PR?

I can accept it, if you wanna talk to your supervisor before anwsering this question, but in this case say "I don't have an anwser to this question yet. I need to ask my supervisior first and will post it back in a few hours/days".

You (not you in particular, but MindArk as a whole) still need to learn much about support/communication with community. This kind of copy and paste of unclear anwsers is no help and doesn't make you stand in a better light.

I am thankfull for any respons from official side, but posting 3 time the same question i start to feel like speaking in another language.

Hmmm, MA seems to be having "Cut and Paste" Lag...

Ratae

Subscribed!

Tseng said:

This makes me think that you're no real person, but a bot who automaticly copy n paste some anwsers triggered by a few keywords?

We have acknowledged that you can copy and paste (we already know it from support cases on the official site). Why is it that you refuse to anwser the question asked in this thread for the 3rd time?


Is it so hard to anwser a yes or no to the question below?


Or am i right to assume that you haven't covered this case in your company and thus refuse to anwser and say "No, players won't get their items back if they are defaulted while the bank was closed due to maintanance fee expired" in fear of bad PR?

I can accept it, if you wanna talk to your supervisor before anwsering this question, but in this case say "I don't have an anwser to this question yet. I need to ask my supervisior first and will post it back in a few hours/days".

You (not you in particular, but MindArk as a whole) still need to learn much about support/communication with community. This kind of copy and paste of unclear anwsers is no help and doesn't make you stand in a better light.

I am thankfull for any respons from official side, but posting 3 time the same question i start to feel like speaking in another language.

Click to expand...

You question has been answered a few times now:

"It doesn't anwser the question what happens if loans are defaulted while the bank was closed due to maintanance fee expired".

Answer:
All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.



Kind regards

David

David|MindArk said:

You question has been answered a few times now:

"It doesn't anwser the question what happens if loans are defaulted while the bank was closed due to maintanance fee expired".

Answer:
All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.



Kind regards

David

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Please understand... That doesn't answer the question. If it did, people wouldn't keep asking again and again. It doesn't matter how many times you post it.

That just says defaults are "safe"... what does "safe" mean?
It just says you guarantee the item will be returned when the loan is payed, but it does not answer the question what happens when maintanence is expired and you can't access the bank...
Is loans kept on hold? If you had 5 days left, will you have whenever-maintenence-is-payed + 5 days to pay it back, or if it is down 5 days, do I have to run like mad when it opens? And naturally... the original question.. if its down longer then 5 days...

Fine.

What constitutes "default" in this case? Since the bank has been inaccessible for some periods in the past, it is theoretically possible that some customer of theirs wanted to pay on their loan, or complete the terms of that loan during the period the bank was closed.

If the bank was unable to honor its end of the deal during the time in question, that smells like default to me, but I'm just a guy on the street.

So... what conditions must be present for MA to consider a bank to be in default since MA is the banks guarantor?


AG

David|MindArk said:

You question has been answered a few times now:

"It doesn't anwser the question what happens if loans are defaulted while the bank was closed due to maintanance fee expired".

Answer:
All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.



Kind regards

David

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Unfortunately, this time a clear and unambiguous answer to exactly that scenario is needed, take your time, but copy&paste won't fix anything here.

Otherwise, i'm afraid, noone will make use of such an unreliable bank anymore, and we don't want bad press, do we?

Maybe let me rephrase the questions:

If loans cant be paid back in due time (because of expires bank building maintenance fees), what will happen to the item?
Will it be lost to the bank owner? Thats not what i'd consider "safe"...
And if the item is "safe", who pays for the additional loan time?

And, how long will the "grace period" be after the maintenance fee is payed, or do we have to run and check daily if the bank is open again? Or will we receive a notification in the future?

If there is no detailed solution, i'm afraid the moneta bank did irreparable damages to their reputation and business already.

David|MindArk said:

"It doesn't anwser the question what happens if loans are defaulted while the bank was closed due to maintanance fee expired".

Answer:
All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.

Click to expand...

Funny enough you ignored the bold part of my question.

So in other words (since you still refuse to post a clear anwser), it's up to our interperation of your anwser?

So my interperation of this is: "If your loan expires during the bank was closed due to maintainance fee expired, the item will be transfered to the bank owners and it's your (the loan-taker/bank customers) problem that you've lost it", exactly? Feel free to correct me, if i'm wrong.

Just another reason why people shouldn't use the bank service anymore. And even if the bank owner would be williing to give you the item back if you pay back the collateral, it wouldn't be possible for him since from what i've read from another thread, the bank owner can't see who's the owner of the items paid as collateral when taking a loan.

Nice to know that you don't care if people lose items with a system you introduced, when the bank is closed due to maintainance fee.

And to make it even worse: What in the case, there are many valuable items in the bank and the bank owner change the access right to private and not allowing anyone to pay of their loans? That's even worse and less predictable than expired maintainance fee.


Well to keep the thread bit productive: How about allowing to enter the bank, even if it's set to private/maintainance fee expired and to pay of your loan? (But prevent you from taking new loans)

This would completly solve this problem mentioned in this thread (and make it non-existent). But you shouldn't take to much time to fix it, maybe a hotfix within the next few weeks?!

Come on dudes,

David wrote 4 times the same answer, this is enough to understand that your items are safe, and guaranteed by MA if something goes wrong with the banks. Is it so hard to read between the lines, or am I totally wrong?

If the bank defaults on any loan for any reason: ie closed because maintenance fees have expired.

All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.

This answers you question again and I will not post in this thread again.


David

Ok, I was very right!

Yes David, the WIKI information is very nice. You have gained skill in dodge!

Over what time period must a EU bank be unavailable to customers before it declared to be in default?

Oh, nevermind. MA will tell us all when and if they're ready. Or when and If they do it.

Eve Venus said:

Come on dudes,

David wrote 4 times the same answer, this is enough to understand that your items are safe, and guaranteed by MA if something goes wrong with the banks. Is it so hard to read between the lines, or am I totally wrong?

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You wanna know what i read between the lines?

"We don't give tangible answers, otherwise you will call us out on it"

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and

"I can't be arsed to post more than a Disambiguation page on wikipedia..."

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which sums up nicely to

"Don't ask, i don't have real answers anyway. Now go away!"

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Eve Venus said:

David wrote 4 times the same answer, this is enough to understand that your items are safe, and guaranteed by MA if something goes wrong with the banks. Is it so hard to read between the lines, or am I totally wrong?

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That the problem actually. Even after 6 times copy & pasting, he still hasn't anwsered clearly if the person who takes a loan will have his item back or not.

I find it hillarious to see how hard for a guy from MindArk is to write a simple sentance such as "Yes, you will get your item back if you pay back your loan even if the maintanance fee expired when your loan was defaulted" or "No, you won't get your items back if you pay back your loan evenif the maintainance fee expired when your loan was defaulted".

What he does is the typical PR/non-liability blah blah, to say "I don't wanna be responsible for this". Which in other words means, they don't care about their customers once again. Can't believe its so hard to post an anwser without copy'n'pasting it 6 times. Can't he speak to bis supervisor/boss/whoever is in charge to get a clear anwser?

And after he copy'n'pasted the same paragraph for incredible 6 times, we (the players/customers) are still as clever as before he ever did his first post.

Sorry to say, but i'm educated enough to not fall for this PR/deceive shit and can see if someone is trying to feed you with some nonsense without anwsering the originial question.


Edit:
Reading this, i think David misread/misunderstood the question (or did it on purpose to evade the real question).

I don't mean when the bank is defaulted (due to player banned, inactive or cashing out all his money and vanishing from EU). I mean when the loan a player takes defaults (=when the player is not able to payback his loan, the loan is defaulted, not the bank).

The thing that is covered in this copy'n'paste paragraph only covers the case when the bank is defaulted for any reason (basicly that can't happen, since it's not a real bank but a pawn shop unless the bank runs of out of money and can't give any new loans)

After reading the wiki, the only way I can read Davids messages is that, yes, if you don't pay your loan at the scheduled date, your item will be taken from you...

Which.. between the lines means, if the bank hasn't payed its maintainence, you are screwed.

"defaults are safe"... a default is per definition when a lender hasn't payed his debt on the agreed date, and the date will pass without the lender being able to pay, so the loan will safely default (MA guarantees it!), and the bank will be an item richer