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MONETA BANK -Twin temp. closed

Limnea said:
I think the thread starter :duh: doesn't mind that Sonne is going off topic...threads are dynamic...we cannot comment on thread balancing
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Have you checked who the thread starter is? ;)
My question was simply what it appeared to be; an attempt to understand what point the post had to do with the topic at hand.
 
Sonne said:
Midori, yes it has something to do with banks also.......

If I understood it the right way - MA is a Shareholding and has to public release the exact individual usercount and financial State to all Stockholders.
And not wonder, I also will try to get MA Stock next Saturday and I would be afraid to loose my money by froud.

my Husband will try to get a stock within the next week if its true that MA ownes stocks.


I am afraid that I will have to pay on cause of Stock Froud.

since MA probably wants to (boast/brag) himselve with Exchange I am now not sure anymore what to think about to be true, I try to take a bit more care about what I will do inside EU in future.


so this definately has something to do with working banks inside EU too.
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Actually, MindArk is a private company and as far as I am aware they are under no such obligation. They announced their intention to launch as a public company in December 2007, but from the lack of subsequent press releases on their website the IPO doesn't seem to have occurred yet.

As a side note, where does the issue of stock fraud come into the equation?
 
aridash said:
i think the answer is for MA to enforce rent payments on the banks. or do away with them all together, bit of a funny idea that they have rent payments after investing so much on reflection.
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Yeah, can you imagine a UK bank / building society that repossessed your home because you werent able to pay the monthly repayments due to it keeping the locks shut?

No.

Simple solution would be to put some kind of repayment terminal outside the building, or enforce / remove the bank fee.
 
I confess, I don't get the confusion.
Dave's reply was fairly concise and specific.
If you make a deal with the bank, the transaction is guaranteed by MA.
Meaning if the bank screws up, you can go to MA to get it rectified.

This would suggest that if you return to the bank with the ped, and the bank is closed, you should be able to open a support case to request the transaction be honored as per agreement, and they should be able to make it so.

And this is exactly what I read into Dave's reply.

So, what's not to understand. On the other hand, the suggestion of a terminal outside the bank where you can take care of this quickly, regardless of whether the bank owner has paid his fees should be available.

In fact, MA should have automated the bank fee payment so that the owner does not HAVE to manually pay the fee each month or so. Then, this would have never come up.
 
Yes, finally I think MA have given a 100% guarantee

If you make a deal with the bank, the transaction is guaranteed by MA.
Meaning if the bank screws up, you can go to MA to get it rectified.

And even better, there is no time limit on this guarantee.

If a bank is closed at the time the loan expires, it then reopens, if it defaults any of the loans which have expired, MA will reverse these defaults if a Support Case is raised, even if this is a month later.

So suppose a player lodges a rare item, the loan defaults while the bank is shut, the bank reopens and sells the rare item. The player submits a support case; Mindark have guaranteed the default, so they then have to either unravel all the transactions after the bank sold it, or duplicate the item to give it back to the original owner.

Oh dear, I seem to have hit another snag.

So in order for Mindark to be able to give such a guarantee, they must be preventing any bank which closes, albeit temporarily, from ever disposing of any items which they acquire through defaults during the closure period.
 
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chevrons said:
Yes, finally I think MA have given a 100% guarantee

If you make a deal with the bank, the transaction is guaranteed by MA.
Meaning if the bank screws up, you can go to MA to get it rectified.

And even better, there is no time limit on this guarantee.

If a bank is closed at the time the loan expires, it then reopens, if it defaults any of the loans which have expired, MA will reverse these defaults if a Support Case is raised, even if this is a month later.

So suppose a player lodges a rare item, the loan defaults while the bank is shut, the bank reopens and sells the rare item. The player submits a support case; Mindark have guaranteed the default, so they then have to either unravel all the transactions after the bank sold it, or duplicate the item to give it back to the original owner.

Oh dear, I seem to have hit another snag.

So in order for Mindark to be able to give such a guarantee, they must be preventing any bank which closes, albeit temporarily, from ever disposing of any items which they acquire through defaults during the closure period.
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Well, I don't know that a month after the fact you could open a support case and get your toys back.
That is an absurd request, mate.

Why would you wait a month after your stuff was due to ask it?
IF you show up at the bank before the due date with your ped in had, and it is closed, THAT would seem like the time to file your support case.
Then MA can simply look at the bank and see it is closed, and go retrieve your item and take your ped, and give you your item back, and leave a note for the bank.
You can come back a month later, and they have to go digging through a month worth of logs to verify? I know what I would tell you.
"Sorry, you should have contacted us before your due date."

Though, yes, fixing it so the bank is never closed to a borrower is a better idea.
Just lock the bank out to people who want new loans, which would be more incentive to the owner to keep his/her fees paid.
 
David|MindArk said:
I'm sorry, but, how clear can it be without entering into every different possible default scenario's!

still.

If a bank is closed due to a non-paid maintenance fee, you will not lose your item should a loan expire while the bank is closed.

or same answer.

All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.


No other "scenario's" will be answered in this thread, nor will I post again .-)

David
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Hehe, "nor will I post again" ;) You posted a few after you said that last time.
Anyway. I would have +rep you if this was your FIRST post in this tread.
I will certainly not -rep you, since the above answer is atleast satisfing, from
the point of view that it SEEMS secure. As you understand, ppl are afraid
of loosing their items, or friends loosing their items.

Since for ex the "get one accidently TT uberitem back" optin from support is
nowdays, from what I understand gone, ALL peoples questions here were
justified, since maybe also this would have been a way to accidently
loose an item (with the exception that there is NO coustumer faults here).

"you will not lose your item should a loan expire while the bank is closed"

That sentence sound very assuring. Why just didnt write ONLY that sentence
in your first reply, it would have atleast halfed the flamming (flamming never goes to Zero though, not on EF, that much I understand).

Seriously though. Answering straight away would again build confidence in
MA, since you stated some while ago that you will be more and more listen,
and communicate with the playerbase. That sounded VERY promissing.

With your answer (a little late, started some :mad: faces), you lost "respect".
With that answer first, you would have gained respect.
(Flammers not acounted....) :silly2:

I LIKE that MA is talking with us again. I never had the opportunity to be
in the phase where they once did. I started 2005, since then communication
been somewhat... slow ;)

But it do seems lately there is a little more communication, to good thing.

I heard someone say Anche Bank next. Hope not, I like crafting there :(

But... Is there no need for :popcorn: now?

Oh,and I have to add. I will never use a "bank".
 
LarsMac said:
Well, I don't know that a month after the fact you could open a support case and get your toys back.
That is an absurd request, mate.
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The absurdity is not mine - it's contained in Mindark's unequivocal guarantee
 
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Why is it so hard for MA and the so called banks to publish the "rules of the game"? Maybe because there are no rules yet, and rules evolve as unforseen situations come up. That might not be the best way to get the trust of the playerbase, but, well, I have seen worse. Anyway, to help all "banks" with regaining trust from EU players I will help you guys out and post the rules "banks", MA and players will adhere to (effective immediately):

A) When a loan is fully repaid (including interest) before the deadline -> collateral will be immediately returned.

B) When a loan is due (at the exact date/time it is due) one of the following things will happen:
  • The loan has been repaid in full previous to the deadline, and the collateral has already been returned -> nothing else will happen.
  • The loan is repaid in full at the last moment -> collateral is immediately returned
  • The terminal to pay off the loan is inaccessible due to "banks" fault (eg. maintainence fee not paid...) -> collateral is immediately returned into the player's inventory and player's debts are automatically paid off (no more payments)
  • The terminal to pay off the loan is inaccessible due to MA's fault (eg. server down...) -> collateral is immediately returned into the player's inventory, player's debts are automatically paid off by MA paying the due amount to the "bank"
  • The loan is not repaid although the terminal is accessible for the player -> the collateral as well as any other previous payments go into the "bank's" inventory immediately.

(when in doubt, the terminal was inacessible ;) )

That should do the trick :silly2:
 
Are these "real" banks or just pawn shops?
 
Sonne said:
and yes Im sure the HoF System is conected primary to the amount of skills on every single Avatar inside EU also maybe on the amount of monthly deposited Peds .......

yours
Sonne
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Hate to burst your (confused) bubble but this is complete bs. And I 'll tell you why.
I finally talked a friend of mine into playing. I gave him a small startup amount of ped (200) and taught him to be a miner.

He's about 3/4 of the way to graduation so he has about 420 skill in prospecting. Clearly not very skilled yet, and has never made a deposit as I gave him his startup cash.

Now, according to you he should suck because he has low skills and has never deposited.

To this date he has 858 ped on his card, has had 3 globals of 50ish, 90ish, and 150ish plus a hof of 667 ped and has upgraded all his eguipment.

I think thats pretty clear that it's not based on skill or depo's.

And ya this has nothing to do with the bank, but you have gone off the subject so much, it don't really matter right now does it.
 
David|MindArk said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default
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Whilst browsing Wikipedia I also found a few other articles that are particularly relevant to this thread and with hindsight could have greatly improved how constructive and beneficial it could have been to the community:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_English

Wikipedia said:
Plain English (sometimes known, more broadly, as plain language) is a communication style that focuses on considering the audience's needs when writing. It recommends avoiding unnecessary words and avoiding jargon, technical terms, and long and ambiguous sentences.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambiguity

Wikipedia said:
Ambiguity is the property of being ambiguous, where a word, term, notation, sign, symbol, phrase, sentence, or any other form used for communication, is called ambiguous if it can be interpreted in more than one way.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_theory

Wikipedia said:
There is much discussion in the academic world of communication as to what actually constitutes communication. Currently, many definitions of communication are used in order to conceptualize the processes by which people navigate and assign meaning. Communication is also understood as the exchanging of understanding.
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[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BklT7Qy07Is[/YOUTUBE]
 
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So how long is the "grace period" to repay a loan after the bank reopens?

I mean, if a person's loan defaults while the bank's fees are unpaid, do they have to stand around waiting for the avatar to show up and pay the fees?

Do they have another day to make the payment?

Are they supposed to file a support case and have MA sort it out?

Seems like it would be very difficult to be online 24hrs/day to make sure you are there right after the doors reopen, so I guess it must be one of the other options?

I think I'd like to know this before I hocked anything valuable.
 
Midori Fairlona said:
Have you checked who the thread starter is? ;)
My question was simply what it appeared to be; an attempt to understand what point the post had to do with the topic at hand.
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Yes, thats why I posted! :rolleyes:
 
LarsMac said:
Dave's reply was fairly concise and specific.
If you make a deal with the bank, the transaction is guaranteed by MA.
Meaning if the bank screws up, you can go to MA to get it rectified.

This would suggest that if you return to the bank with the ped, and the bank is closed, you should be able to open a support case to request the transaction be honored as per agreement, and they should be able to make it so.

And this is exactly what I read into Dave's reply.
Click to expand...

I don't see that statement as such. Actually the bank owner couldn't sell any item after he reopenes the bank...coz I am also thinking of the scenario where somebody is on holiday without a pc ( hard to imagine!!!).

So...what if the bank reopenes ( and we don't know in advance, do we? ) and that someone cant be there for weeks?
Will he get back his item...must the bankowner now keep all items?

Will Mindarc just 'create' another item? What would make rare items like the unique axe well...not unique and drop in price.

Thats stuff you must think of and you must have an answer.

Easy to solve if they say...the bankowner is not able to sell the item after he reopened befor the owner logs on again, and gets a message plus the possibility to claim his item back.

Of the reaction I see here, nothing like that seems to be planned yet ( took them a while to decide weather they guarantee for items or not though )...so, rather don't loan things u may still need :)
 
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I have read through about 80% of this post.

I have not used a bank in EU but maybe one day I might find a need to use one.

If the situation occurs where the Bank is inaccessible and my loan goes into default or its even close to going into default. I will be hammering the crap out of support especially if its an expensive item and I have the peds to pay. I think anyone who has a smidgen of common sense would alert Mindark prior to anything going into default.

I would also include in every support case their exact statement:

All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.
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If you try everything possible to rectify the situation including being proactive about it and it still fails then bitch and moan in the forums until you your fingers bleed from all the typing. I guess until that happens everyone getting riled up because David won't specifically answer every "What if" situation seems a bit of an over kill and that's coming from me they guy who has been crabbing about MA and PE/EU for years.

Just be like Fonzie :cool:
 
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Sirhc said:
If you try everything possible to rectify the situation including being proactive about it and it still fails then bitch and moan in the forums until you your fingers bleed from all the typing. I guess until that happens everyone getting riled up because Frank won't specifically answer every "What if" situation seems a bit of an over kill and that's coming from me they guy who has been crabbing about MA and PE/EU for years.
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This is exactly what I'm saying, and exactly what David said.... if you want David (not Frank) to answer each and every possible scenario, then he would be using time that could be better spent in other areas...
 
Short Update in Case of Moneta Bank.......


STILL NO ANSWER FROM BANK OWNER according my PM :popcorn:
 
ok so i havnt read all this thread, and i am a lil dense sometimes

why dont bank rent payments happen automaticaly? u know like a direct debit etc? then its easy, its clean. even if a bank owner forgets then its paid. the customers have piece of mind... everyone wins. and if the bank has no peds.... then they should be shutdown by MA immediatly to protect the customers/participants.... but i doubt that would happen

so whats the problem? cant ma wrte a bit of code that deducts a set amount per month? it would help everyone, ma included


Oh and David|MindArk, a bit of advice... patronising ur paying customers with smartass wiki quotes is possibly the dumbest pr/customer relations i have ever seen. I know MA dont give a shit about any of us but the trick to pr is to try to keep that secret ;)
 
Lighterthief said:
Oh and David|MindArk, a bit of advice... patronising ur paying customers with smartass wiki quotes is possibly the dumbest pr/customer relations i have ever seen. I know MA dont give a shit about any of us but the trick to pr is to try to keep that secret ;)
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:lolup: Wot he said!

Oh, and such a long thread yet such a simple solution:

MindArk, drop the maintenance fees for banks!

Customers happy, bankers happy, no more shitty PR for MA and we could finally stop chewing on David... :D

I don't mind the missing peds in the loot pool, i guess everyone will agree! :cool:

(Don't ask me why it took me so long to come up with this, and yes, should be np to do that, there are houses on eudoria that don't need a monthly fee)
 
wizzszz said:
:lolup: Wot he said!

Oh, and such a long thread yet such a simple solution:

MindArk, drop the maintenance fees for banks!

Customers happy, bankers happy, no more shitty PR for MA and we could finally stop chewing on David... :D

I don't mind the missing peds in the loot pool, i guess everyone will agree! :cool:

(Don't ask me why it took me so long to come up with this, and yes, should be np to do that, there are houses on eudoria that don't need a monthly fee)
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lol if they remove the shop functions maybe.
 
Nihilist said:
lol if they remove the shop functions maybe.
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What's the alternative? Make the MA coders implement some "overdue by expired maintenance fee banking subsystem"?

With a reminder on next login?

And all items "on hold" as well as the loaned cash?

And a gazillion bugs within that subsystem and public beta testing for 18 month till they get it running as expected?

And all the other problems arising from unpayed maintenance fee, like pointed out before?

Get a grip, MA, and do what's necessary!
Too much harm has been done already: If i ever need a loan, i'll for sure not use the moneta bank, it happened twice, only realistic to assume it will happen again!

You better care a bit for your investors, or maybe next time you auction off such things noone will dare to take such a risk anymore.
 
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Nihilist said:
lol if they remove the shop functions maybe.
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i havent looked in a while, but are the shops in the bank not seperated some? they are in their own little rooms, no? perhaps reduce the fee and put a terminal and door in front of the shop area of the bank.
 
wizzszz said:
What's the alternative? Make the MA coders implement some "overdue by expired maintenance fee banking subsystem"?

With a reminder on next login?

And all items "on hold" as well as the loaned cash?

And a gazillion bugs within that subsystem and public beta testing for 18 month till they get it running as expected?

And all the other problems arising from unpayed maintenance fee, like pointed out before?

Get a grip, MA, and do what's necessary!
Too much harm has been done already: If i ever need a loan, i'll for sure not use the moneta bank, it happened twice, only realistic to assume it will happen again!

You better care a bit for your investors, or maybe next time you auction off such things noone will dare to take such a risk anymore.
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alternative you already stated. don't bank at a bank that might not pay its fee's. if they didn't have a fee they would have a rent free / decay free shop.. that's worth quite a bit i'd think. - ; )

EarlVonKippler said:
i havent looked in a while, but are the shops in the bank not seperated some? they are in their own little rooms, no? perhaps reduce the fee and put a terminal and door in front of the shop area of the bank.
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as far as i could tell last time i was looking they were all under the same estate terminal. i may be wrong of course.
 
Nihilist said:
alternative you already stated. don't bank at a bank that might not pay its fee's. if they didn't have a fee they would have a rent free / decay free shop.. that's worth quite a bit i'd think. - ; )
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Yes, but that's only avoiding the problem, not solving it.

Any other constructive suggestions? Anyone?
 
autopay the fee out of their bankroll. if their bankroll dry's up send a warning to everyone with items invested.
 
Nihilist said:
autopay the fee out of their bankroll. if their bankroll dry's up send a warning to everyone with items invested.
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Or maybe have part of thier bankroll fund as an escrow account just for paying the fee. Then if the escrow empties out give them a warning message (email and such)

Dex :cool:
 
I can just repeat myself:

...

* The terminal to pay off the loan is inaccessible due to "banks" fault (eg. maintainence fee not paid...) -> collateral is immediately returned into the player's inventory and player's debts are automatically waived (no more payments)
* The terminal to pay off the loan is inaccessible due to MA's fault (eg. server down...) -> collateral is immediately returned into the player's inventory, player's debts are automatically paid off by MA paying the due amount to the "bank"
Click to expand...

With those 2 rules in place it doesn't matter if estate fees are paid or not (at least not to the customer) and if fees are not paid, it will teach the "bank" to make sure they get paid in time, otherwise they lose their money and collateral. I mean, come on, it is the "bank's" responsibility to pay the fee, isn't it?
 
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