Question: Society Question, please contribute

Badger said:

yup in a nutshell is what i mean in the "or" section, and thats what many societies do already... they have feeder socs so that when people in the "sv noobs" are skilled enough they will move up into the "SV Elite" im not saying this is a better approach by any means, i know its not for everyone but some people already do it.

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But as it is at the moment, in order to do that you have to sacrifice the convenience of shared soc chat and so on.

In my example, any soc could simply nominate their Top 5 players, call them Elite, and the Top 50 loses its meaning (not that it has much in the first place, but it would make it worse ). If you could do that without losing the soc chat etc, there would be no reason NOT to do it, and therefore a great number of societies would do so.

I'm certainly in favour of improving the way societies function, but I think it's important to avoid this 'loophole'.

Oleg said:

But as it is at the moment, in order to do that you have to sacrifice the convenience of shared soc chat and so on.

In my example, any soc could simply nominate their Top 5 players, call them Elite, and the Top 50 loses its meaning (not that it has much in the first place, but it would make it worse ). If you could do that without losing the soc chat etc, there would be no reason NOT to do it, and therefore a great number of societies would do so.

I'm certainly in favour of improving the way societies function, but I think it's important to avoid this 'loophole'.

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a good point well argued and i do agree with it (in parts) . But the poll itself is not really about that, its about the creation of a sub soc (in a tiered environment) for people who do not want to do the skill up from "SV noobs" to "SV Elite" as their aim, and therefore incorporating proffessions such as dedicated miners/crafters/colourers/beauticians/artists/writers/shop owners/ hanger owners and still benefit the group as a whole That is what the poll in itself is about, but the issues being discussed are very interesting

Badger said:

a good point well argued and i do agree with it (in parts) . But the poll itself is not really about that, its about the creation of a sub soc (in a tiered environment) for people who do not want to do the skill up from "SV noobs" to "SV Elite" as their aim, and therefore incorporating proffessions such as dedicated miners/crafters/colourers/beauticians/artists/writers/shop owners/ hanger owners and still benefit the group as a whole That is what the poll in itself is about, but the issues being discussed are very interesting

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I still don't really see the point, to be honest.

We have people of varying professions in SV, ranging from hunters to sweaters and even a cartographer. Our skill levels range from total noob to people with Level 40-50 professions.

We are all together in one society. That's fine. I don't really understand what problem you are trying to solve here.

Oleg said:

I still don't really see the point, to be honest.

We have people of varying professions in SV, ranging from hunters to sweaters and even a cartographer. Our skill levels range from total noob to people with Level 40-50 professions.

We are all together in one society. That's fine. I don't really understand what problem you are trying to solve here.

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Lets say for instance there is already a multi tiered soc... and those tiers do not want to all be together in one soc... to me the creation of this extra tier appears to solve the solution of people who fall outside of the goals of the initial tiers after being there for sometime, a problem you don't suffer from because your already all together but this would be a viable option for those who cant/do not want to do what your soc has done and be all together?

Badger said:

Lets say for instance there is already a multi tiered soc... and those tiers do not want to all be together in one soc... to me the creation of this extra tier appears to solve the solution of people who fall outside of the goals of the initial tiers after being there for sometime, a problem you don't suffer from because your already all together but this would be a viable option for those who cant/do not want to do what your soc has done and be all together?

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I suppose this has to do with my views on how society life should operate. The SV model is simple - we are open to all. It was that way before I joined, and remains so. One of the major reasons I like SV is that it reflects my own philosophy of inclusion in this respect. We have rules, but what they essentially boil down to is "Don't be a dick", and that's about it.

So when you're talking about "those who cant/do not want to do what your soc has done and be all together" my instant reaction is to question why on earth they would want to be this way. And if these sub-socs share soc chat anyway, in what way would this be any different to having everyone together as in the SV model?

Oleg said:

I suppose this has to do with my views on how society life should operate. The SV model is simple - we are open to all. It was that way before I joined, and remains so. One of the major reasons I like SV is that it reflects my own philosophy of inclusion in this respect. We have rules, but what they essentially boil down to is "Don't be a dick", and that's about it.

So when you're talking about "those who cant/do not want to do what your soc has done and be all together" my instant reaction is to question why on earth they would want to be this way. And if these sub-socs share soc chat anyway, in what way would this be any different to having everyone together as in the SV model?

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do you never feel overcrowded with so many members all together, with like 3+ conversations trying to happen at the same time?

The benefits of having a diff socs but that could all be tied together with a separate "alliance" channel is that in it could make for better organisation and less crowding of the chat

I think its a great idea, played a game for a while (and still play it once in a while) where you had socs (called different) and an union. One of the soc generals could start an union and invite other socs too join. So you had your own soc chat and an unionchat. It would be awesome if we get this in EU, so tiered socs like our SR socs can have our own chatchannel and we get too know the others in the other 2 socs better.

Badger said:

do you never feel overcrowded with so many members all together, with like 3+ conversations trying to happen at the same time?

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Not really. It happens occasionally but it's not generally a problem.

Badger said:

The benefits of having a diff socs but that could all be tied together with a separate "alliance" channel is that in it could make for better organisation and less crowding of the chat

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So is this crowding of the chat the problem that you are trying to solve? As I say, for me it's not a problem so perhaps that's what I'm missing.

We already have a team chat channel that makes communication easier during hunts. We have PMs to have a private discussion between two people. To my mind, the solutions already exist.

If you still feel the need to add more channels, I think a simpler, more elegant and more flexible solution would be to add a 'Private Society Chatroom' feature which could be used for conversations between smaller groups within the society. In fact this feature doesn't even need to be restricted to the society, and could therefore have wider uses.

Oleg said:

Not really. It happens occasionally but it's not generally a problem.



So is this crowding of the chat the problem that you are trying to solve? As I say, for me it's not a problem so perhaps that's what I'm missing.

We already have a team chat channel that makes communication easier during hunts. We have PMs to have a private discussion between two people. To my mind, the solutions already exist.

If you still feel the need to add more channels, I think a simpler, more elegant and more flexible solution would be to add a 'Private Society Chatroom' feature which could be used for conversations between smaller groups within the society. In fact this feature doesn't even need to be restricted to the society, and could therefore have wider uses.

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a good point I think in the end whatever structure of society you go for they are all going to have their different positives and limitations

Badger said:

a good point I think in the end whatever structure of society you go for they are all going to have their different positives and limitations

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Perhaps so. SV is the only society I've ever been in, so I don't have any first hand experience of other structures, entry requirements etc.

I posted a new thread with my alternative idea:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/wishlist/111618-conference-chat.html

Frank_JJ said:

I think its a great idea, played a game for a while (and still play it once in a while) where you had socs (called different) and an union. One of the soc generals could start an union and invite other socs too join. So you had your own soc chat and an unionchat. It would be awesome if we get this in EU, so tiered socs like our SR socs can have our own chatchannel and we get too know the others in the other 2 socs better.

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offtopic
was it a game were it cost 1million gold to make a guild ?

Let me see if I can get my thoughts to sound right…

I think the idea of a Soc that will allow people to follow their creative interest is a good one. It would be a place to discuss ideas and apply your craft. I am not sure how the leadership would work out though, with the games ranking system. Possibly have a Leader and then have everyone else in the Soc on the same level, they couldn’t be on the second step because then they could and would let anyone and everyone into the Soc. In addition, you would not have the whole drama over what rank people think they should be, just make it a moot point.

Some people would want to make it into a social club, a place to be with no accountability and that’s fine if that is what you want. However, I believe the whole drama scene would soon drive people away. People say they do not want rules, but then they cannot seem to get along without them, also people need goals, be it personal or Soc.

But the idea itself of an Artisans type of Soc is a valid one, one in which people could do all the professions ingame that are out of the mainstream skilling that most people think of as the whole game. By mainstream skilling areas, I mean hunting and mining, which are limited in their scope, meaning you go up in skill levels, but create nothing else. When you start talking crafting you take in tailoring, coloring. weapons making, tools,… etc.. the list goes on, so I do not include it in mainstream skilling. Plus now we have the whole art side of EU, with us being able to upload pictures, the beauty side of EU and mask painting.

The Soc could have events like art (paintings, pictures (from EU and or the real world) and mask) and fashion shows, writing contest, reporters for Soc forums and the like… It would also help hold people’s interest in EU as an outlet to express their creative side, making it more than a video game.

Like I said just some thoughts.....