L fap requirements minus X%

Xen said:

...
I don't understand why MA made them so high, as it's in their own best interest to have more people hunting higher level mobs. For the same reason I don't understand why high level L armor is not raining down from the sky.

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I think they made them so incredible high to please all the ones with Mod/Imp Fap.

Never thought about why MA changes their rule for one dumping a 30K markup Item but not for 3K markup items? - No offence to Jeff - surely it is a good decicion they made but all the others who TT'ed a X K Ped item did also ask support but for them they did not change it. So here they protected the 30K ped item dumper and so they changed it, with the high level L Fap's that require insane Paramedic skills (x time more than a Mod Fap would cost) they protect some other with extremly high value items, witch most who hold one anyway where looted from themselve in old times or are duped when MA had a bug in game or bought at a fraction of todays price. With the duped Faps they simply corrected the bug and one had many duped uber Fap's.

Raffaele Meiers said:

I think they made them so incredible high to please all the ones with Mod/Imp Fap.

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I think they missed out a 0 in some calculation somewhere on the skills possible vs time graph some dev took into the 'new items' weekly meeting

dbelinfante said:

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MA have clearly made a mistake here. There is still progression - slow as it may be - in skilling everything else. Even a Svempa XT at lvl 66 is obtainable. Level 66 Paramedic?

+rep for the OP.

Click to expand...

exactly what he (and the thread/pool starter) said (including the +rep)...

Xen said:

I don't understand why MA made them so high, as it's in their own best interest to have more people hunting higher level mobs.

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That actually made me cringe.... Mindark wants people hunting bigger mobs so they can whine more about bad loot? Cuz that's what would happen...

Now, to Kygon, Raphael, and db;

I fully expect to be able to use the Zychion pro in the next few years, not the next lifetime. I understand where one would think that you can't possibly attain it. But, you can.

Lets change gears and keep in mind another thought as you all speak about the unfairness of it possibly taking years to skill up to the highest fap;

Once you've attained the level required to use the highest fap, what more is there to do?

Once you can use the best weapon, what more is there to do?

Ok, let's put out bigger faps, bigger weapons.... so then you can complain 'oh, but you need to be lvl 200 to use it'....

If you lower the req lvl on the current faps, they'll just nerf the current faps heal abilities, and make more faps, with new names, that req higher levels.

The biggest problem here is no one is looking past their own nose. In 10 years, if you're still playing, and you are lvl 100 in everything, and they haven't put out more items that require lvl 150, then what are you skilling for?

Now, out comes the arguement, 'yeah but they will put out more items that require lvl 150'... yeah, well, then you'll complain about then too. They've (currently) put out bigger and better faps, and low and behold, someone complains that they're unattainable. This universe is a 'permanent' fixture in our universe. Mindark has no plans to drop out of existance in 5 years, or make an 'Entropia Universe 2'. This is it. This is the universe.

So, when you are level 110 in 5-50 years in paramedic, someone else will be complaining 'I can never reach the level of Kygon, he started in the good old days, it will take me 10-20 years to reach his level'.

Well, that's EXACTLY the point!

so........ you want to be maxed skills in a week ???


I recommend playing WoW then, all the kiddy's you want, and max lvl within a week.

No one is asking to get to level 100 in a few years.

level 31 paramedic max vivo 125 that one is enough for a midlevelplayer and its not hard to get, ofc it takes some time

to be a uberplayer you need uberinvestments or uberplaytime not only on L-faps, only a few out of 1000 should ever reach that - to be balanced and to be "worth" something

Dion Red Strike said:

...
Now, out comes the arguement, 'yeah but they will put out more items that require lvl 150'... yeah, well, then you'll complain about then too. They've (currently) put out bigger and better faps, and low and behold, someone complains that they're unattainable. This universe is a 'permanent' fixture in our universe. Mindark has no plans to drop out of existance in 5 years, or make an 'Entropia Universe 2'. This is it. This is the universe.

So, when you are level 110 in 5-50 years in paramedic, someone else will be complaining 'I can never reach the level of Kygon, he started in the good old days, it will take me 10-20 years to reach his level'.

Well, that's EXACTLY the point!

Click to expand...

I do not agree with this statement. I think MA's business model must be to continually attract new customers (Players) due to the churn that exists in the number of accounts. There is probably an avg 'lifespan' of a regularly used account, this I believe can be measured in years and probably single digits. If you look a the demographics of people playing this game I bet it would be largely based in the 'younger' year brackets.

People move on with their lives, get new jobs, get married, have kids, find things that are more important than hitting a key on a keyboard repetitively to gain ‘skill’, they also find other things that they can do with their money. Human nature is fickle and we as a race get bored over a period of time.

Hence, the time required to skill up to the high end FAP’s at the present increase level is most likely not in line with the avg lifetime of an account.

I have no idea who you are, what age you are or what you do and wish to do with your life. You may have a plan of spending the next ten years ‘playing’ EU, in which case you ‘might’ get the chance to use a high end (L) FAP, or deposit rather a lot of cash to achieve the same end. Whatever you path, all the best in it.

But, there will be an EU v2 or something similar, and even another ‘version’ of this format that is better. It has to happen to keep the business model alive, without it MA revenue source (Read what it needs to keep running) will dry up. And with it all the cash that people have ‘invested’.

Regards,

Will

DISCLAIMER: These thoughts are purely that of my own and are based upon my own experiences with this ‘Game’ over the last three years or so and are in no way supposed to represent anyone elses.

Just did some calcs. Went on a ~1000 ped hunt today (ammo + gun decay). If I did this every day, it would take me another 1003 days to max a UR175, and 37976 days (104 years) to max a Hedoc Adventurer (level 100).

Kernow said:

I do not agree with this statement. I think MA's business model must be to continually attract new customers (Players) due to the churn that exists in the number of accounts. There is probably an avg 'lifespan' of a regularly used account, this I believe can be measured in years and probably single digits. If you look a the demographics of people playing this game I bet it would be largely based in the 'younger' year brackets.

People move on with their lives, get new jobs, get married, have kids, find things that are more important than hitting a key on a keyboard repetitively to gain ‘skill’, they also find other things that they can do with their money. Human nature is fickle and we as a race get bored over a period of time.

Hence, the time required to skill up to the high end FAP’s at the present increase level is most likely not in line with the avg lifetime of an account.

I have no idea who you are, what age you are or what you do and wish to do with your life. You may have a plan of spending the next ten years ‘playing’ EU, in which case you ‘might’ get the chance to use a high end (L) FAP, or deposit rather a lot of cash to achieve the same end. Whatever you path, all the best in it.

But, there will be an EU v2 or something similar, and even another ‘version’ of this format that is better. It has to happen to keep the business model alive, without it MA revenue source (Read what it needs to keep running) will dry up. And with it all the cash that people have ‘invested’.

Regards,

Will

DISCLAIMER: These thoughts are purely that of my own and are based upon my own experiences with this ‘Game’ over the last three years or so and are in no way supposed to represent anyone elses.

Click to expand...

There are a great number of participants in this universe that are 'older', not younger. I don't know what you base your opinions on, but the demographics of this universe are quite different than the demographics of typical games.

Now, onto your 'people are fickle' statement....

In GenCon, I saw a wide variety of people, from little children to teens, to young adults, to middle aged people, to seniors. All of them played games. Many of them had a dedicated game they played, for many many years (i.e. Dungeon and Dragons).

During my time playing EU, I have; Gotten divorced, remarried, had a child, had a child die, switched jobs 3 times, played just about every xbox, ps2, and wii game, and downloaded a butt load of pron. But, yet, I still participate in the Entropia Universe.

A large amount of people find initially EU is not for them. This I will agree with. However, for those that find EU is for them, they stay long periods. And for those that don't see it right away, a lot come back. I have no less than 6 friends that have quit, and came back. I myself quit, and came back.

So, your hypothesis is definately noted, but, the facts show that it is incorrect.

Now, onto your 'EU v2' statement.... that's laughable, to say the least. The vision of Jan (and the crew) is to have an ever updating virtual 3d platform for copmanies and people to use, much like the WWW. Back in the day, there was BBS, then telnet, then gopher, then the www. Now, there is EU. Think 'I have a dream', this is EU.

I would highly recommend reading the article by John Bates in Massive Gamer magazine (I put it up somewhere). Maybe after reading it, you will get more of a 'feel' on how this universe is meant to be...

Xen said:

Just did some calcs. Went on a ~1000 ped hunt today (ammo + gun decay). If I did this every day, it would take me another 1003 days to max a UR175, and 37976 days (104 years) to max a Hedoc Adventurer (level 100).

Click to expand...

what mob, what armor? How often did you need to fap?

Lugzan said:

...
now, laugh mode off. imp/mod owners you say? yes, they will be pissed that the price will become more stable. anyway, it's a big donkey investor who dislikes it the most and I don't give a duck about their interest (read: interest) in the section of just holding the equipment dusting...
J.

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what "big donkey investor" are we talking about?
afaik, 'investor' is/should be someone who 'invested' (aka put RL money) into EU...
respectively:
"big donkey investor" -> someone who 'invested' some big amount of RL money into EU...
from what i know, there are not too many of those...
i may have some concerns about someone who, at some point, depo'ed 20-30-40-50...100k usd to invest in high gear (mod fap for ex.) or anything else... but for those so called "investors" who's only depo was (at best) a few hundreds long long time ago... well... for those "investors" i could also offer my duck...

and that being said, (sry Lugzan about somehow hijacking) i also find it very strange and actually unexplicable (within current official game politics/statements of course) how and why some of the 'participants'

Raffaele Meiers said:

I think they made them so incredible high to please all the ones with Mod/Imp Fap. Never thought about why MA changes their rule for one dumping a 30K markup Item but not for 3K markup items? - No offence to Jeff - surely it is a good decicion they made but all the others who TT'ed a X K Ped item did also ask support but for them they did not change it. So here they protected the 30K ped item dumper and so they changed it, with the high level L Fap's that require insane Paramedic skills (x time more than a Mod Fap would cost) they protect some other with extremly high value items, witch most who hold one anyway where looted from themselve in old times or are duped when MA had a bug in game or bought at a fraction of todays price. With the duped Faps they simply corrected the bug and one had many duped uber Fap's.

Click to expand...

are always 'more equal' then the others... and i'm not talking here about genuine and known real investors...

PS: "milk and honey" people need not to reply this...

Dion Red Strike said:

That actually made me cringe.... Mindark wants people hunting bigger mobs so they can whine more about bad loot? Cuz that's what would happen...

Now, to Kygon, Raphael, and db;

I fully expect to be able to use the Zychion pro in the next few years, not the next lifetime. I understand where one would think that you can't possibly attain it. But, you can.

Lets change gears and keep in mind another thought as you all speak about the unfairness of it possibly taking years to skill up to the highest fap;

Once you've attained the level required to use the highest fap, what more is there to do?

Once you can use the best weapon, what more is there to do?

Ok, let's put out bigger faps, bigger weapons.... so then you can complain 'oh, but you need to be lvl 200 to use it'....

If you lower the req lvl on the current faps, they'll just nerf the current faps heal abilities, and make more faps, with new names, that req higher levels.

The biggest problem here is no one is looking past their own nose. In 10 years, if you're still playing, and you are lvl 100 in everything, and they haven't put out more items that require lvl 150, then what are you skilling for?

Now, out comes the arguement, 'yeah but they will put out more items that require lvl 150'... yeah, well, then you'll complain about then too. They've (currently) put out bigger and better faps, and low and behold, someone complains that they're unattainable. This universe is a 'permanent' fixture in our universe. Mindark has no plans to drop out of existance in 5 years, or make an 'Entropia Universe 2'. This is it. This is the universe.

So, when you are level 110 in 5-50 years in paramedic, someone else will be complaining 'I can never reach the level of Kygon, he started in the good old days, it will take me 10-20 years to reach his level'.

Well, that's EXACTLY the point!

Click to expand...

You have lost your mind... You will not reach that goal in a few years unless you chip your ass off at an insane cost to you...YOU WILL NOT REACH LEVEL 100 by natural skilling in 2-3 years. Why you always come across that we are always whining about stuff like this. I will come across that you are always sucking someone off how does that feel to you? How do things ever change? Usually two sides come together in the middle if you ever want true change...

Mindark should want this to change because you spend alot more decay in hunting those bigger mobs... It is alot more risk.. I think this is what they were getting at.

What is the biggest weapon available to use??? The skill requirements for the highest weapons are about 10000 times more easy to attain then the the equal skill reqs for the higher levels faps. This is not even mentioning the fact that faps give alot less skills and alot slower faps per minute as compared to shots per minute. The highest level weapon to max are any of the non sib weapons such as for example imp mk2 among a huge list of many others... How many thousands of people in the player base can still use these guns with relatively good efficiency? (many) How many can say that of the SIB faps that are higher level???? (none would want to try as it is stupid to get 5 faps per second). These levels are nearly unreachable unless you want to pull a VVV and deposit millions of peds...

I will now ask you what % of the playerbase is going to stick around and hardcore skill for 10-20 years? This game still has an insanely small playerbase for how long it has been running. Now look at the successfull MMORPG's that are out there.... Most players that come into any game like this are not going to be willing or able to spend an assload of time wasting their money skilling on faps or if only hunting wanting to wait 20 years to be able to use a great fap. What you are suggesting is that if you want to use these faps you must be a hardcore dedicated fan that doesnt care about his money so much and 10-20 years to be able to use a fap is undaunting. I would say that there are not many out there that would enjoy that.

Xen said:

Just did some calcs. Went on a ~1000 ped hunt today (ammo + gun decay). If I did this every day, it would take me another 1003 days to max a UR175, and 37976 days (104 years) to max a Hedoc Adventurer (level 100).

Click to expand...

at your current rate, it will take alot longer to do the same on the UR200 since the gains are significantly less at even its skill level

well at least when you die you can leave your ava to your grandchildren and then they in turn can leave the ava to theyre grandchildren who might just be able to use the Vivo Zychion Pro (L) but then again its hard tell if your descendants will be able to grind the amount of hours daily to hit these targets

MA inadvertently created the first ever 'generational mmoprg'

kinda funny and sad all at the same time

Dion Red Strike said:

Now, to Kygon, Raphael, and db;

I fully expect to be able to use the Zychion pro in the next few years, not the next lifetime. I understand where one would think that you can't possibly attain it. But, you can.

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No, you can't. I don't want this to turn into a yes/no discussion, and we won't know the truth until 5 more years have passed, but I am willing to make a serious bet that you won't.
Skill gains come too slow. It takes too long.

Lets change gears and keep in mind another thought as you all speak about the unfairness of it possibly taking years to skill up to the highest fap;

Once you've attained the level required to use the highest fap, what more is there to do?

Click to expand...

This is a real problem, FOR WEAPONS. Take Kygon's word for it (or whoever is highest in Paramedic): It ain't happening.

Once you can use the best weapon, what more is there to do?

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Yep. Once even UL weps are maxed, what then.
But FAP's are simply a different proposition.

I'm glad to see this thread, as it's something I've been frustrated by as well. I am currently at LVL 54.8 Paramedic. I use Adj FAP for small mobs, and Adjusted Hedoc 450 and Hedoc 450, which I maxed when I reached LVL 54, a very long time ago. The only reason I have achieved an additional .8 levels is that I ate a couple small chips in addition to normal fapping during hunting. I will not be able to max the next higher FAP (the 1500) at LVL 62 in the next few years, let alone ever acheiving the ability to use any of the FAPs above that.

Unless MA meant to introduce completely unuseable FAPs into the game, I agree that they should tweak the required skill levels a bit. Why do I say they are completely unuseable? Anyone who has the skills to use the top (L) FAPs would be a fool not to chip out FA and buy multiple Imp and Mod FAPs with the profits. Even the best (L) FAP does not match the heal/sec of the Mod FAP, and it's cost to use is much higher. Thus, until Mod FAPs start selling for a couple million PED, the top (L) FAPs are de facto unuseable from a practical standpoint.

Suggestions for MA:
1. Overlap the useability of (L) FAPs. When someone maxes the 450 at LVL54, they should not have to skill naturally for another year or more before they can even hit the SIB on the 1500 at LVL 56 to begin to use it at its minimum stats. If mid to high level (L) FAP is maxed at level X, the recommended level of the next FAP up should also start at LVL X.

2. Unnerf Paramedic skill gains a bit. Not a lot, just enough that there is actually the potential for progression duirng normal hunting use.

3. Re-balance required skill levels for mid to high level FAPs. If the best (L) weapons in the game can be maxed at ~LVL 72, consider doing the same with (L) FAPs.

Making these changes would not ruin the Imp/Mod FAP market. Why?
1. Heal/sec and tool-switching speed are still higher on the Imp/Mod.
2. Cost to use is still much lower on the Imp/Mod.
3. Most people will still never reach LVL 70+ in Paramedic.
4. Those who do reach LVL 70+ Paramedic would still be smart to chip out and buy an Imp FAP.

Theres also a very simple "mathproblem" with getting the skills to actually use lets say a lvl 80 fap (let alone lvl 100+...)
You would have to be a total idiot to pay modfap price*2?3?4?5? to be able to use a lesser fap? If i had lvl 70 paramedic (or whatever amounts to the 300k+ that an impfap costs) id sure as hell chip it out fast and get one instead... Not to even mention getting close to lvl100, iirc from calcs made in other threads with chipping optimizer it would cost several million peds to get to max the lvl100+ ones, wheres the sense in keeping that skill even if it was possible to skill your way up to it (or you had the means to simply chip it in...)

I actually dont see the "problem" up to UR200/hedoc450 though, its hard, hell yeah i dont max ur200 completely yet myself, but its possible "within X years" with some chipping and alot of playing, and is imo "right" for MAs description as a game it takes many years to master.
Problem is anything much above that is both impossible to get from skilling naturally (unless were talking our sons and daughters taking over our avatars...) and costs so much to chip that it makes no sense...

And Red... ffs man youre so wrong it hurts. Are you just throwing out numbers since you dont know what youre talking about, or are you getting some incredibly wrong info from someone else that doesnt?
Check the math @the end of this post, you think MA will give you 800.000peds of skills if you "just fap a bit" the next 2-3 years? Well if you can do that im impressed, would make CND look bad profitwise in comparison...
Since (L) faps came ingame ive used only that, and i hunt "quite a bit". I have so far gained around 2 lvls in paramedic... Ive asked around ingame and both "professional fappers" etc have the same experience, once you get close to medical therapy you might as well give up the skilling bit, and once you paid your way past that to be able to use ur200/hedoc450 its simply makes no sense to get any higher for the reasons stated above and below.

So yes MA, major thanks for putting in some faps that make it possible to hunt bigger mobs without insane armor if you got good skills (lets not forget the (L) faps are still a HUGE improvement compared to it being fap5->fap80->ek2600->ehrm impfap? before...). And fair enough if you dont want people to be able to use the big ones to easily, the "game" is meant to be here for ages, i know that and i love it, thats why i still play it.

But atm the requirements for big (L) faps are so far out its not even funny...

A few examples btw (im @lvl 48.5 approx in the paramedic profession atm), for me to get to lvl XX it would cost X peds:
(0-48.5 is approx 50000peds value btw)

From 48.5->

60: 80.000peds
70: 198.000peds
80: 357.000peds
90: 549.000peds
100: 801.000peds
110: 1.429.000peds
120: 2.512.000peds

See the problem?...

Besides that impfaps and modfaps are a) incredible eco, and always will be compared to any (L) fap b) Faster and always "heals max" so nicer to hunt with c) They weigh less (yes sounds trivial but you save several kg, means a bit if you wanna bring another 5-10k ammo...) d) They can be repaired

etcetc

So nope would take some pretty serious changes before anything (L) could come close to "threatening the price on peoples investments" so i dont really see a problem there either.

Im guessing either the devs were drunk when they made the requirements, or theres some master plan we dont know anything about yet Regardless big (L) faps are totally useless atm (compared to options), that fact cant be denied. Hope it changes in the future

Edit: Lol i spent too much time on this post i see, Hoos was faster with the same points more or less
Put in some examples of prices as well...

Dion Red Strike said:

what mob, what armor? How often did you need to fap?

Click to expand...

SEG hitting ~100 healing ~100 for 6 hours / day fapping often burning alot of faps and I gain hp quicker than paramedic

I'd like to see your gains in screens Red , I've used L faps from the day they were released and I agree it will take more than my lifetime for me to skill naturally to anything near the 100 prof level faps I dont see how you can be doing anything to gain quicker than me doing segs in phantom

Executioner said:

Well if MA made it easy to max those faps all imp and mod ones would drasticly drop in price.

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as a mod fap ower I disagree with this, even with (L) faps maxed they are alot slower then mod fap / imp fap and I don't consider them the same thing because of this.... main reason is that since the faps are alot slower they are not made in a way that can make you really solo a mob but they will help you stay alive in team (hopefully)

so personally any (L) fap with the current reload speeds is not a threat to faster faps such as the mod fap or imp fap and I think the skill levels should be lowered alot so more players could take part in bigger mob hunts even if its in team or hunting with a uber.

Alot of ubers would not mind hunting with middle grade hunters if they could stay alive on big mobs

Dion Red Strike said:

what mob, what armor? How often did you need to fap?

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Well, let's just say that I could conceivably hunt in a manner that doubled my fap usage, but beyond that I would consider the hunting too inefficient. Even then the time requirements are silly. I understand it's a long term game and I like a challenge, but the way it is now is ridiculous and depressing.

I thought a proud member of shaolin knows better than me that there are such...

ok, I'm not going to name any names here as we all know who has but does not use acively his/hers 1 or in some cases more than one imp/mod fap and other uber stuff. there are such and I do not see any use to the universe from them!

now, another thing told was something about what will you do after you reach max. erm, I don't know, probably quit. maybe not. maybe I'll start enjoing the fruits of the progress? or did you expect this game to only about the 30 guys from pre beta plus 5 later uber chippers who should be able to do that. nope, you're wrong here. the further MA pushes us from reaching the top, the less people will join as in there is less and less point. second argument - it does not matter if me or another 100 guys get to the max easy or easier, it is all about pyramid schema anyways which means the higher on the ladder you are, the higher the possible profit one must still work the arse off to earn it out, the higher on the ladder, the easier it should be. we will NEVER reach the top, MA made that clear long ago. the system will not be giving skills the way it used to be and those who had chance to use that (some even exploit) are too far. MA will allow them to move forward. we follow but most likely never catch up. MA will give more items beyond pro level 100 and that's all cool for a never ending story. now, knowing that, will you still ask what will we do after maxing some lousy-eco and snail-slow faps? we will try to do the same those having uber faps do - some fun and maybe profit. is that bad?

I do not see much fun coming from all the make-up stuff etc. at least not close to the thrill which was in PE. progressing in sim toys is no fun either. as the good old faps do not drop (forget the lie MA has said), there is no other way to return the fun than lowering those required levels. ok, making some paramedic skills to have bigger influence on the profession might do the same trick but I'll leave the job to evaluate each solution to MA. I think the easiest way is lowering the requirements. I see no bigger difference for MA if user is fapping with sk20 or hedoc 450 but the difference for players would be noticeable. maybe masses will not leave out of boredom and maybe masses*masses will join seeing it still is fun!


P.S. thanks for the input, folks! I'm out of +rep points but they will follow =)

J.

Dion Red Strike said:

what mob, what armor? How often did you need to fap?

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I'd like some proof please Red.... here's mine

a reality check MY ACTUAL PROGRESS , this is not theory

I've used L faps from the day they were released (I was one of the very 1st adopters, I sold my adj in anticipation and promptly eat almost its value in para skills lol) I decided to actually checked my gains from when I maxed UR175

I dont see how I could possible be doing anything more to gain quicker

if you see my post here "https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/achievements/71522-maxed-ur175.html "
I maxed my UR175 (at 44.99 prof level) it was posted on the 15-06-2007 I have eaten a few seren chips but only small ones maybe 2 < 15tt I've used 100's of L faps and spent countless hours grinding big mobs ALL with little armor or naked, I use a relatively slow gun adjmkv+a204 and also spent many many hours fapping lots of people in WOF I've used only L faps maxed - UR175&adUR175 SIB - UR200, adUR200

and how many prof levels you think I gained? 10maybe? 20 even?

... 2

from 15-06-2007 to 05-09-2008 I have gained 2 prof levels !

so lets say 12 months hardcore hunting to get 2 levels (to cover any time off I've had) I have maximized my fapping & I have minimsed my armor

6months = 1 prof level

Vivo Survivor (L) (usable at 102 maxed at 108)
this level will take me 30.5 years assuming the gains remain constant - we all know that they the decrease in gains towards level 100 is painfully even for sniper profs (im sure doer has a nice graph somewhere to show this)

so in reality I'm looking at maybe 45 years or more to be able to use a 108 level fap, so I sorry for my over exaggeration of 100 years its only about 45 of active hunting on decent skill gain mobs using a mix of sib and maxed L faps

now does anyone else have some proof of this supposed much quicker gains? I'd like to see it since it seems SEGs, big Aurli, naked big Necu and Trox dont make me heal enuf

oh and btw I've gotten AT LEAST 10 hp naturally in that time (to 199.8 )

this is so disheartening but at least Im already at 47 I have no idea how long it would take for a noob from 1 to 108 THAT has to EASILY over 100 year

tell me how that could in any way be justifiable ?!

kygon said:

...

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You come with good numbers. I've -just- maxed the 175. I dont play all the time.... so, today is 09-05-08, I will report back to you in 1 month, then 2 months, then 3 months. We'll see how 'proven' it is... mind you, I not only hunt, but mine and craft.... so, if in 3 months, I haven't gained 1 level, I will be greatly suprised. If I haven't gained 2, I will be mildly suprised. I would expect 2 levels in 3-4 months at my current rate, barring real life ofc.

To me though, regardless if it's 3 years or 5 years to max the pro, I don't really care. I expect to be around till I die. At that point, I'll be using the best damn fap I can use at that time. I may die 1 year from now, or 60 years from now (yeah, right), either way, I'll be having fun all the while, regardless if I'm using a 175, a 200, a pro, or an 'extreme pro (tm)'. It's been fun gathering up the skills I have in crafting, mining, and hunting.

Maybe I should rephrase myself, and my statements.

No, I don't think it (current fap req's) is a problem. I enjoy the challenge.

~Red

p.s. My avatar is not only for fun, but think about this, when I die, how much will my paramedic skills be worth? My children will be SET either in game, or in real life. They can figure out what works for them

i was going to point out some maths but Optima (and Kygon and others) done it already.

there is no way anyone is ever go to get to level 80+ paramedic to utilise the top SIB faps, because as soon as they get to that level it would be more economic to sell the skills and buy a imp or mod fap. and the only way to economically get to those levels is with an adj/imp/mod fap. if you are not already there, anything north of ~lvl50 or so just isnt worth it, sell the HA skills for HP skills.

aridash said:

if you are not already there, anything north of ~lvl50 or so just isnt worth it, sell the HA skills for HP skills.

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Personally, I set my cutoff at LVL 62, if the current (L) FAP skill requirements stay the same. I will keep hoping to one day get from LVL 54.8 to LVL 62 in order to max the 1500. By that time, my 212 HP should be 225 HP at least, and I should have quickness unlocked. Thus, Adj FAP and 1500 should be enough for me to survive with if I have to.

Dion Red Strike said:

To me though, regardless if it's 3 years or 5 years to max the pro, I don't really care.

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You will be very disappointed though if you really think it's a realistic goal to reach level 115 paramedic in less than a few decades =/
It's fast in the beginning but the skill compression at higher levels will make your progress slow down by much much more than you expect.
How much is your First Aid skill at now? level 6k ish? 7k levels in a skill is about twice the skill volume of 6k. Which means it will take you as long to get from 6-7k as it took you to get from 0-6k, assuming the same equipment and activity level which is of course not going to be the case but you get the idea.

Here's a list of what amount of tt skill it takes you to reach a certain level, which directly correlates to how long it takes you to reach that level.

1000 3.43ped tt
2000 11.64ped tt
3000 29.66ped tt
4000 68.62ped tt
5000 150.01ped tt
6000 311.28ped tt
7000 607.53ped tt
8000 1084.95ped tt
9000 1753.56ped tt
10000 2598.26ped tt
15000 8266.16ped tt

I checked what level paramedic you'd get if you skill naturally to level 20k (19999) which is the highest skill level supported by the skill calculator at http://esi.coolinc.info/
Levels over 15k are only estimations so far, I've checked my highest skills and it generally takes a lot more skill than the calculator says it will. just checked a 162ped chip on auction and the calculator said it'd only take 113ped to reach the level I would get from that chip. So in reality it will probably take a lot more skill than estimated here but it's still good for you to see the insane amount of skill you'd need to max the zychion pro.

Not counting the doctor skill which there's no official information of regarding to its contribution for the paramedic profession and assuming you don't do anything but fap, you'll have the following skills at 20k First Aid.

dexterity 8k
serendipity 8k
anatomy 12k
diagnosis 10.5k
first aid 20k
medecine 9.5k
treatment 9k
medical therapy 9k

which would result in level 117 paramedic

You think 20k first aid in 3-5 years is even remotely possible? the skill calculator estimation is 13.4k tt value, which looks like a very low estimation from looking at my own high skills. Let's say it'll take 15k peds tt value of first aid skills, which is still a low estimation. Then it would take 100 times longer to reach level 117 paramedic than it takes to reach 5k first aid (assuming 100% natural skilling using the same equipment throughout, no activities other than fapping and not counting the doctor skill)

I gain about 10peds tt value of first aid skill per month (using maxed M-450) so I'm about 100 years away from maxing the zychion pro skilling naturally, unless you have a fap decay bill of thousands of peds per day I don't see how you'll reach level 115 in 5 years or less.

Play around with
http://esi.coolinc.info/
http://jdegre.net/pe/unlocker.php
yourself and you'll get a far from perfect but much better estimation than you can do yourself in your head.

Executioner said:

Well if MA made it easy to max those faps all imp and mod ones would drasticly drop in price.

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sorry but F@#@$@@% at the 40 mod and imp fap in the game. Like usual a whole community have to pay for the fun of few?
madness.
what wrong to create fap for each 1-2 paramedic levels? for the weapons already is so, more or less.
ps-nothing against the mod-impr fap owner

Dion Red Strike said:

And while yer at it, make sure everyone can craft lich armor, adapted monty's; also, make it earier to find ruga and himi, don't forget, let everyone be able to use the high end gensis swords... and give everyone mod mercs...

<sigh>

Ok, now that I've turned off the sarcasm..

1) You can't be good at everything, without a whole lot of time and/or money invested... this INCLUDES being a paramedic.

2) Since I first got SIB on the 175, It's taken me ~3 months to max it, and now I have the SIB on the 200. I expect me to be able to max the 200 in about 4-5 more months. I'm not even a full time hunter.

To skill up the paramedic, this is what I do/did and I would highly recommend to everyone;

1) Use less protective armor
2) After done killin a mob, make sure you always use the fap with active SIB
3) Hunt mobs that won't kill you in less protective armor, but will come close to killing you
4) Randomly heal people when you revive after being killed

and lastly;

5) Hunt and mine in PVP4, seriously. To make those faps that you want to use, crafters need himi and blood moss. To get the faps in between the ones crafters can make, you need to find the mobs in pvp4. So, to keep the fap supply going, both the crafted and looted ones, more people need to hunt/mine in PVP4.


I understand the 'frustration' of looking at a req lvl of 100+, but, really, if everyone could get there in a short amount of time, you may as well go play wow...

~Red

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not useful post. Also following your suggestion that system is wrong. Paramedic is slower then evade too man!!!!!! make a try to calculate how much skills u need to buy to have 50 paramedic, after do the same this a hunting profession. pls let me know the result.
thx

Dion Red Strike said:

And while yer at it, make sure everyone can craft lich armor, adapted monty's; also, make it earier to find ruga and himi, don't forget, let everyone be able to use the high end gensis swords... and give everyone mod mercs...

<sigh>

Ok, now that I've turned off the sarcasm..

1) You can't be good at everything, without a whole lot of time and/or money invested... this INCLUDES being a paramedic.

2) Since I first got SIB on the 175, It's taken me ~3 months to max it, and now I have the SIB on the 200. I expect me to be able to max the 200 in about 4-5 more months. I'm not even a full time hunter.

To skill up the paramedic, this is what I do/did and I would highly recommend to everyone;

1) Use less protective armor
2) After done killin a mob, make sure you always use the fap with active SIB
3) Hunt mobs that won't kill you in less protective armor, but will come close to killing you
4) Randomly heal people when you revive after being killed

and lastly;

5) Hunt and mine in PVP4, seriously. To make those faps that you want to use, crafters need himi and blood moss. To get the faps in between the ones crafters can make, you need to find the mobs in pvp4. So, to keep the fap supply going, both the crafted and looted ones, more people need to hunt/mine in PVP4.


I understand the 'frustration' of looking at a req lvl of 100+, but, really, if everyone could get there in a short amount of time, you may as well go play wow...

~Red

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not useful post. Also following your suggestion that system is wrong. Paramedic is slower then evade too man!!!!!! make a try to calculate how much skills u need to buy to have 50 paramedic, after do the same this a hunting profession. pls let me know the result.
thx

Dion Red Strike said:

That actually made me cringe.... Mindark wants people hunting bigger mobs so they can whine more about bad loot? Cuz that's what would happen...

Now, to Kygon, Raphael, and db;

I fully expect to be able to use the Zychion pro in the next few years, not the next lifetime. I understand where one would think that you can't possibly attain it. But, you can.

Lets change gears and keep in mind another thought as you all speak about the unfairness of it possibly taking years to skill up to the highest fap;

Once you've attained the level required to use the highest fap, what more is there to do?

Once you can use the best weapon, what more is there to do?

Ok, let's put out bigger faps, bigger weapons.... so then you can complain 'oh, but you need to be lvl 200 to use it'....

If you lower the req lvl on the current faps, they'll just nerf the current faps heal abilities, and make more faps, with new names, that req higher levels.

The biggest problem here is no one is looking past their own nose. In 10 years, if you're still playing, and you are lvl 100 in everything, and they haven't put out more items that require lvl 150, then what are you skilling for?

Now, out comes the arguement, 'yeah but they will put out more items that require lvl 150'... yeah, well, then you'll complain about then too. They've (currently) put out bigger and better faps, and low and behold, someone complains that they're unattainable. This universe is a 'permanent' fixture in our universe. Mindark has no plans to drop out of existance in 5 years, or make an 'Entropia Universe 2'. This is it. This is the universe.

So, when you are level 110 in 5-50 years in paramedic, someone else will be complaining 'I can never reach the level of Kygon, he started in the good old days, it will take me 10-20 years to reach his level'.

Well, that's EXACTLY the point!

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what happen to u RED? after your last radio event some is changed in you.
About your last comment, so neonaverin, ND, skalman, mercury etcetc are un happy people for u?
don t look like, and i m happy for them.
pls red