Maybe they could make it possible to use the current SIB faps more efficiently by adding amps for them or something like that. Also adding more adapted-reworked would help too.
nice idea +rep
L fap requirements minus X%
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nice idea +rep
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That will change though.
See? There are bigger ones than that... You will wanna kill them sometime soon.
well, for the past 7 months i was happy to be able to kill Allophyl Stalkers in my gear and that Atrox Alpha only happened after i bought some 5 Bs.
Not really that much in a hurry to upgrade further more to be able to kill AOA.
I would estimate that I can stand my ground against 50% of all mobs and maturities available, for me that is absolutely enough within 8 months of playing.
There are still so many mobs I could handle I have not yet even tried.
I am really not sure if there needs to be done something to either the SiB tools od the system, because I have yet not seen any really conclusive evidence that SiB really means that one gets _more_ skills.
From my experience it only means you can use a tool more efficient sooner, not that it helps with skilling faster.
rhogenbe
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I have thought about it some more. I think the best way for MA to proceed is to fill the gaps in the FAP SIB ladder with some new FAPs. They can easily get specs just in between the current ones.
As an example:
So between the UR125 (L) and UR175(L) there can be for example an UR150(L). It could fall below or above the Hedok SK-80(L). On the other side there could then be an Hedok SK-70(L) or SK-90(L).
It might be advisible to have some more L FAP's that are looted from mobs. (Also outside of PvP4)
Cheers
Siam
As an example:
So between the UR125 (L) and UR175(L) there can be for example an UR150(L). It could fall below or above the Hedok SK-80(L). On the other side there could then be an Hedok SK-70(L) or SK-90(L).
It might be advisible to have some more L FAP's that are looted from mobs. (Also outside of PvP4)
Cheers
Siam
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Filling the gaps would be nice, but that doesn't improve the real problem of the upper level faps being virtually impossible to use.
To fix that you either need to lower the skill levels required for use, or provide new fap alternatives. For example, customized and reworked versions of current faps could have higher heals, instead of just the increased speed/lower heal of the adapted versions. Perhaps the customized versions could have the increased speed of the adapted model, but the same max heal as the standard model. And the reworked model could have both the increased heal speed and a higher max heal than the standard model. But for this to be effective they would have to be relatively plentiful. MA could make the ingredients for these special models a little more expensive. Then, for example, if you regularly use a ur125, once in a while you could buy a customized or reworked ur125 for a little more money, and hunt bigger mobs.
In fact, I think a combination of lowering the required skill levels and this customized/reworked idea would be ideal.
rhogenbe
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Some already exist. And i do not expect to be able to use the top FAPs straight away.
If the skill gains are increased a bit and the SIB FAP ladder has no gaps in it i think things would be acceptable for everyone. Changing current stats on existing items never seems to be a good idea.
And how they name the FAPs that fill the gaps is up to MA. I think they have that creativity.
Cheers
Siam
Xen
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In the post I replied to you did not mention an increase in skill gains, just filling the fap gaps.
Yes, of course, they could increase skill gains instead of lowering the skill requirements. That may also put more FA skills on auction and lower FA skill values. That could be seen as good or bad depending on who you ask. No matter what is done, changing skill requirements or increasing skill gains, it's going to affect the "balance" of EU in some way.
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I agree more faps would be very hard to implement, the 175 and 200 are very close as it is there could not be a 185 as it would only have 1 more heal more than 175 and 1 less than 200 --- pointless
we need more skill gains and or reduced requirement for higher level faps, this change would not nerf mods and imps hell considering the price of these faps the L's can get away with getting easier to use and not nerf the seemingly 100k per year increase in value on them!!
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Well, I said filling some gaps would be nice. The gap between the 125 and 175 is quite large. I know there is the 80, but there is limited (
) availability, due to it being lootable only from Muluk-Hir in pvp4. But yeah, filling gaps alone would not solve the problem.
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thanks for the discussion!
now, how do you think, what would be the major differences in lowering the requirements and modifying the skills affecting the pro levels. I mean, how would rearranging skills in that area affect the universe in general? some skills would go up in price and some down? something else?
J.
now, how do you think, what would be the major differences in lowering the requirements and modifying the skills affecting the pro levels. I mean, how would rearranging skills in that area affect the universe in general? some skills would go up in price and some down? something else?
J.
rhogenbe
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Filling the gaps by either adding some new FAPs or mayby changing some requirements on existing ones will help more people using the FAP which suits their needs. Either as a maxed FAP or as a SIB skilling FAP or the combination.
If the skill gains are slowly adjusted i think it will hardly influence the price in the short term. In the long term they might become somewhat cheaper.
The key for the skill gain adjustment would be to do it slowly in some steps.
I think MA wants to keep the economy stable doing a sudden big skill gain adjustment will cause an unwanted instability. By doing it in multiple small steps the equilibrium is slowly adjusted.
MA can start of with the region between paramedic pro level 30 and 50 with adjusting/introducing FAPs since most players having this issue are in that region. Then a release later they could do the 50 to 70 region and so on.
Mod FAP owners will have no need to worry for a price drop. If anything future potential value will be stable if not increased. Everyone wants one if they could afford it. If you have sufficient paramedic skills to sell to buy one who wouldn't.
If anything the ESI market might get a higher demand.
Like usual MA has some control over the transfer of paramedic skills by the way they control the drop of ESI's.
I think if MA implements the change in some steps there will be no real problems. With some more variance in looted/crafted FAPs it might even stabilise the economy some more.
Cheers
Siam
If the skill gains are slowly adjusted i think it will hardly influence the price in the short term. In the long term they might become somewhat cheaper.
The key for the skill gain adjustment would be to do it slowly in some steps.
I think MA wants to keep the economy stable doing a sudden big skill gain adjustment will cause an unwanted instability. By doing it in multiple small steps the equilibrium is slowly adjusted.
MA can start of with the region between paramedic pro level 30 and 50 with adjusting/introducing FAPs since most players having this issue are in that region. Then a release later they could do the 50 to 70 region and so on.
Mod FAP owners will have no need to worry for a price drop. If anything future potential value will be stable if not increased. Everyone wants one if they could afford it. If you have sufficient paramedic skills to sell to buy one who wouldn't.
If anything the ESI market might get a higher demand.
Like usual MA has some control over the transfer of paramedic skills by the way they control the drop of ESI's.
I think if MA implements the change in some steps there will be no real problems. With some more variance in looted/crafted FAPs it might even stabilise the economy some more.
Cheers
Siam
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Well I think the major problem was implementing F(L)APs that took extremely high levels to max. If all we had was up to a level 50 or so F(L)AP available it would look "do-able" to many people. When everyone sees a FAP that is 109 in professional level its just ridiculous in a way except for those who either fap-skilled when they could or have oodles of cash to chip in both those situations its possible they could buy or already have IMP or MOD FAP.
If you look at the mining profession the VRX3000 has a requirement of 54 levels. Currently we don't have anything above that so it gives people in that profession something to strive for. Eventually when there are enough VRX3000 users I would suspect MA will implement some new finders and new things to be found with them. When they implemented the F(L)APs its like they gave us every level all at once.
For some reason it just feels so lop sided in the paramedic profession while other professions seem to have a better balance maybe?
From the chip optimizer I got these weights:
Dexterity 3%
Serendipity 3%
Anatomy 13%
Diagnosis 8%
First Aid 37%
Medicine 6%
Treatment 5%
Medical Therapy 5%
It seems a bit odd to me when I am hunting Falx and have a F(L)AP in SIB and use it sometime 4-5 times in a row without one skill gain (sometimes more). This FAP issue could all boil down to not enough FAP skills being gained and/or those that are gained are not valued very high. I find that odd since the skills will slow no matter what when they start to compress at higher levels.
I guess my solution would be to first increase the gains (especially on SIB items there is no call to go 5 or more heals with no gains in SIB) or increase the value of the current gains to compensate for the lack of them. Then redistribute the weight of FA to balance the paramedic profession some.
Last solution: Flood EU with IMP and MOD FAPs
I know I am dreaming hehehe
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agreed, and I wonder what miners would say if a new 150 prof req finder it the market
With the big mining amps they would probably reach it faster then 109 in paramedic.
Cheers
Siam
kygon
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im sure that mining profs are so much quicker to skill in than para, there is no easy way to skill it at all
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hmmm... so, how would you make it more balanced towards playerbase and fun? cut out sere and dex and put hose extra 6% on... medicine?
last line of Sirch's post me likes! =)
J.
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No, they shouldn't change the contributions of skills to the profession, there would be all sorts of bitching. They should give more skills from using faps.
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has prof changes ever been done before?
I think a change to gains and level req are needed to fix things
I have not heard of such things but the case is, we only know the very latest history for sure or more sure, just couple of years ago we understood slightly of the skills affecting ratios...
nonetheless, I'm sure it can be done without harming the economy nor players much.
J.
kygon
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ah ok maybe im wrong. I do remember of high end finders that only a very few could use but then the req. got dropped and they became easily usable - so there is at least a evidence of this being done in the past on items , so I live in hope ... I'll admit not much hope but some
lol
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I don't think it has been done since we could calculate things.
If MA changed the contribution of skills to professional levels, I think the complaining would be endless.
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Yeah, I agree. There is no need to do this though. MA could just:
1. Change the required skill level to use some of the "unattainable" faps;
2. Enable natural skill progressing by increasing the amount of skills gained by fapping; and
3. Overlapping the required skill levels on mid to high end faps, so that users don't have to wait two skill levels before the SIB on the next fap on the ladder starts.
Although some might worry that #2 would negatively impact the paramedic-related skill prices, if MA does #1 and 3 at the same time, these should increase demand for paramedic skills, as more L faps would be attainable through both heavy natural skilling and reasonable chipping.
Xen
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Yep, 1 and/or 2, and 3 would be nice.
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yeah, it is probably true that skill prices might change, lower in this case most likely. but! anything we do here is our own risk. for how long leave the skills unchipped, to keep pointless A101 amps a.s.o. =) so I think that's all cool. by the way, some skill prices tend to get down, for instance those which are unlocked by more and more people. until today I have not noticed much complaining because of that. probably because the effect of entropy is working (however wierd that is) in case of skills. the more there's available, the more it's chipped in, so it becomes steady.
thanks for your input again!
J.
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Hit Level 31 Para Yesterday.
Apparently it will take me 15 months to use h80 @ max, and 30 months months for ur175.
Sucks?
The skills gained from para aren't any different than other professions (perhaps even more .. according to my recent testing), it just happens that, for example, i can burn 1,2kped blpammo+decay in 4-5 hrs in D4, and in the same time burn 40ped of fap. I also burn 100ped of armor. i.e Even with evade, it is skilled 2-3 times faster than para, weapon is -25- times faster. Even if I wanted to fap full time it would take me a minimum one hour per fap.
84ped/hour vs 731ped/hour with apis. So I need eight fappers per hunter to gain same TT of skill. Hmmmmmmmmm. MA sez: hahaha chip u nubs
Apparently it will take me 15 months to use h80 @ max, and 30 months months for ur175.
Sucks?
The skills gained from para aren't any different than other professions (perhaps even more .. according to my recent testing), it just happens that, for example, i can burn 1,2kped blpammo+decay in 4-5 hrs in D4, and in the same time burn 40ped of fap. I also burn 100ped of armor. i.e Even with evade, it is skilled 2-3 times faster than para, weapon is -25- times faster. Even if I wanted to fap full time it would take me a minimum one hour per fap.
84ped/hour vs 731ped/hour with apis. So I need eight fappers per hunter to gain same TT of skill. Hmmmmmmmmm. MA sez: hahaha chip u nubs
kygon
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the demand for para skills have been fucked for more than a year now, when I first started eating them (day 1 L faps) the market increased by 100's of %s since then its gotten ultra silly
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Lugzan
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the demand for para skills have been fucked for more than a year now, when I first started eating them (day 1 L faps) the market increased by 100's of %s since then its gotten ultra silly
by the way, I'm quite sure it wasn't only becaus of the L faps coming that streched the price of para skills. the time those came out, all the medium faps (back then) were removed from loot, leaving no alternatives than keeping these skills. what we have noticed last 2 years is that MA is making everything possible to tie every pec possible in PE (skills, items, extra armor parts added etc.) I think today people realize more than ever what is the entropy doing due to those "nice" moves, I still like to call them nerfs. it stagnates players, removes all the fun and progress...
it's time to start reconsidering such things, MA!!!
J.
kygon
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all it takes it 1 L fap user to spend 20k on para skills to increase the value by many 100's of % (I know i've done this a few times lol)
there is simply too few skills avail
kygon
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actually (at least at my speed of gains hunting SEGs alot in phantom) its gonna take you a damm slight longer to max 175 (19 levels needed) and at 6 months a level more like 114 months or 9.5 years