An Englishman, Scotsman and....

ok, thanx all. I consider myself "up to speed".

It only remains for me to add this:

A Priest and a Rabbi are at a cross-denominational cocktail party. A waiter comes round with a tray of champagne and the Priest takes one.

The Rabbi refuses however, saying "I would sooner commit adultery than allow alcohol to pass my lips."

The Priest returns his glass, saying "Oh. I didn't know we had the choice.."
 
You hampered the main teams progress with posts in Englands forum section that deliberately had the effect of causing trouble within the team instead of being constructive.

That's got to be the lamest definition of the sabotage rule in this thread yet.

If I still had access to the private forum I could find posts by several of you that weren't constructive. Most would be nothing more than comments, but there is at least one post in particular by you that served no purpose other than being an outright attack on me designed to cause trouble.

By your own definition that makes you a saboteur.

That's just my view again though, so let's get back to yours.

You can of course provide proof that anything I posted hampered the Main Team's progress?

No?

So, now we have cleared that up...... what is your point?
 
You not only had a personal vendetta towards the England Captain

We are talking about the same person here?

The same person whom I went out of my way for last year in an attempt to get him proper recognition for what he was having to do in the regular absence of that years Captain?

The same person that I was by far the most vocal supporter of to be elected as this years Captain?

The same person, who now in his new role as Captain, selected me to be in the Main Team?

The same person who actually made me blush as a result of his complementary words whilst standing at the top of the New Switzerland lighthouse, following the match in which I had led the Main Team?

The same person who could have chosen anyone, but had me as his personal, and sole support for a whole match when we were the only friendlies in both the immediate and close area?

Non of that sounds like the actions of somebody with a personal vendetta, nor reason to start one.

So would you care to explain how this alleged personal vendetta came about? And whilst you're at it, you can of course prove that this alleged vendetta hampered the Main Team's progress?


but were disruptive

How so? What could I have possibly said that disrupted the team's progress?



Purely a matter of personal opinion, and not a crime.


demoralising

Demoralising would be a Captain who allows a member of the Main Team who had already contributed to the team's progress to simply step down, especially as this person was able to be present at some of the later matches.

Despite feeling very strongly that this was totally unnecessary and unfair on the person concerned because of the point below and a point I will raise later relating to something the Captain said at the time, what did I say about it? Nothing, because the person who left supposedly did so willingly.

Demoralising would be a Captain who before the above player had stood down from the team, announced that they, along with about half the others in the Main Team would probably not be fielded in the Main Team during the remaining matches.

That's a really big pat on the back for those that had already, and continued to perform on a level as good as anyone else in the team. Expecting somebody like you who wasn't effected by this to understand though is probably a waste of time.

What did I do about it? I accepted that even though I had proven I could perform to a very high standard when fighting in the Main Team, I didn't have the skills or equipment of a lot of the others in the Main Team.

I instead took pride in my constantly being called for and relied upon to perform Close Support, which those who have been on the receiving end of this support, will probably agree can make a massive difference to the performance of the Main Team.

I personally also found it to be far more challenging and exhausting than shooting mobs for 3 hours, so I got a real kick out of doing it.

Demoralising would be a Captain that long before the WoF is over makes a post suggesting that next year we should probably be part of a British/UK team.

The mere presence of the post implied we weren't good enough to win as an English team, and the whole basis of it's content was that if England didn't win we should give up trying as England and merge in to a British/UK team.

That's just my opinion of course, but some of us are English first and British a distant second, so I have no problem at all stating that post got the patriot in me fired up.

I seem to recall that instead of telling the poster exactly what I thought of him and his suggestion, which is what I would have done according to how you allege I constantly behaved, I provided a constructive argument.

I basically argued there was no reason why we should give up being an independent team because it was the other team(s) who had suggested this idea who needed us, and not the other way round.

I asked why we would need to even consider changing next year at this moment in time, and pointed out we were already proving we had what was needed to win this year.

If we didn't win this year, then we came back next year bigger, better and stronger, and tried again.

The feeling that such a post could cause was summed up best by telling Oracle he should go down his local when England had just lost a football match, suggest something along the lines of what he had put to us, and see what reaction he got.

Despite some allegations made elsewhere in this thread I was far from a regular poster in the forum, and I believe my campaigning to keep an English team was the most posts I made on anything in the private forum.

I can't prove this though, just like you can't prove your allegation of sabotage based upon the alleged behaviour you mention.

Anyhow, I've documented instances where my morale was challenged, although I expect others will disagree that what I have mentioned was demoralising.

I've also stated how I dealt with it, which wasn't to sulk, complain, or generally be negative, which is the opposite of the way I'm alleged to have constantly carried on.

That doesn't mean to say my morale may or may not have suffered though.

By applying the same definitions of sabotage being used by several in this thread, I could say that Oracle deliberately acted to effect my morale, which duly effected my performance. As I was not performing at my peak I therefore lost the opportunity to bring maximum gain to the team.

Oracle therefore hindered the progress of the Main Team, and in doing so committed sabotage.

Now tell me that isn't pure speculation and contentious, and then compare it to what is being used against me.


As this is Hurrikane's event he makes the rules, not YOU and certainly not us!!

Indeed. And the rules should be clearly defined and visible to all before the event starts, and adhered to.
 
"Mandy was removed from the England team after her insulting, provocative and argumentative behaviour

Silly me, I forgot I'm supposed to constantly go around insulting and provoking people, and generally looking for a fight.

You know, the same people that I'm meant to have insulted and provoke post elsewhere on EF. Also considering the content in general that is on EF and the many different people with their many views, there is a huge and constant supply of material for somebody that has the mindset and attitude that I'm being branded with to have an absolute blast.

Kind of strange then that I'm not a forum whore, and I don't go around carrying out the mentioned actions on all and sundry at every opportunity or just for the sake of it. FFS, I don't even go around and do any of that to THE person a lot of you would say I'm most likely to kick off with.

Anyway, that alleged behaviour hampered the Main Team's progress how exactly?


prompted the elected Captain to put a vote to the rest of the 12 whether she should remain. All but one voted in favour.

Ah yes, the vote. Either vote for Mandy to be removed or Oracle would quit.

The vote that isn't mentioned in the rules, the reason according to the rules that wasn't provided at the time, and which I was given no opportunity to put my case against.

Completely fair and unbiased.


I looked at all the evidence available to me in this forum and agreed that her behaviour was deserving of the above vote being held, and I backed the team on the decision.

Again, that alleged behaviour hampered the Main Team's progress how exactly?

You also didn't even have the common courtesy to inform me of the result!


I am aware Mandy contributed to the England Team's early success, but I cannot imagine any Captain wishing to keep someone in the team who directly and deliberately insults him, starts arguments and behaves so little like a member of a team, National or otherwise.

I attended every England match, which obviously means I was present for the Semis and Final, both of which took place after this incident occurred.

So it wasn't just early. I contributed to the success all the way from start to final.

Prior to the Semis, with I believe just the exception of the match where I led the Main Team and the first qualifier, I was Close Support all the way.

Now maybe I'm missing something here, but I was being relied upon provide essential and possible match changing performance to the very same people I'm alleged to be have been constantly insulting etc. Who in their right mind would put people like that together if what you allege is true?

Once I had been kicked from the private forum, if I had done even a fraction of what I'm alleged to have done, why would one of the very same people who has posted here make sure I received all the relevant match info, thereby enabling me to continue to attend and participate?

Why would they also ask me to confirm what I would like to do during that match given the available options?

We agree that sabotage is a deliberate action? Sabotaging one's own team would make the saboteur a traitor.

So, as I'm allegedly guilty of sabotaging my own team, which is of course the reason used as justification to remove me from that team, would that not make me a traitor in the eyes of those making the allegations?

However, the very people who say I deliberately sabotaged the team, caused them to get upset and so on, allowed somebody they consider a traitor to still participate in the ongoing efforts, even joining the exact team they were in.

Yeah right, of course they would have allowed that if there was any substance to the allegations.

So, how does any of that constitute sabotage?

Come to think of it, Hurrikane doesn't even mention sabotage as the reason for my removal, yet certain people from the team are throwing sabotage around like it's the latest and coolest buzz word.


The decision has been made long ago, and still stands.

The reasoning provided for my removal is speculative and contentious beyond belief.

You didn't at the time this was initiated state a reason for removal as specifically defined and stated within the the rules, and nor have you done so in your statement justifying your decision.

So I'll stand by what I have said regarding cheating and corruption.
 
Ahhhh the englishman....ahhhaaammmmm
 
Hurrikane.... can we collect our jackets in a pvp area please :eek:
 
If I could offer any advice to someone that is a little mad or angry, and wants to prove that they are not, it would be:

When it comes time for you to "tell the world" your side of the story, get one of your sane friends to write the post.

Don't write the post yourself and, whatever you do, don't reply to any of the posts in the thread.

Or you will just end up repeating yourself over and over, rambling on and on for 1000s of words, repeating yourself over and over, saying nothing and ignoring everything that other people have to say. And repeating yourself over and over.
Each post that you make will only help to prove your detractors right a little more.


If any members of EF have difficulty locating a sane friend feel free to PM me your Unabomber Manifesto style ramblings and I can try to translate them into normal, sane person's English.
That way people would be able to understand what it is that you are trying to say. Although they may still disagree with you.




And here is my joke:

An Englishman an Irishman and a Scotsman are getting ready to take part in WoF 2009.
The Irishman and the Scotsman ask the English man:
"Is Mandy in your team this year?"
And the Englishman replies:
"No."
 
An Englishman an Irishman and a Scotsman are getting ready to take part in WoF 2009.
The Irishman and the Scotsman ask the English man:
"Is Mandy in your team this year?"
And the Englishman replies:
"No."



:yay::yay::yay:
 
Mandy, lets try look at this in perspective.

The captain thinks you are wrong.
The Organiser thinks you are wrong.
The Main Team thinks you are wrong (and 11/12 voted you out of the team)
The support team thinks you are wrong.

It seems to me that you do not have a single person backing you up. Do you not think there is a remote possibility that you might be wrong?

You acted like an arsehole and were effectivly treated like one as a result and "wiped" from the team.

Live with it and try to grow up a little and maybe in a few years people will forget the pathetic behaviour you have displayed this year and you will get your chances again.

Neg rep for once again embarresing the England team.
 
Sure seems to be quite a few people that aren't so happy with Mandy's behavior. Ironic that some people chose to voice their displeasure in such a disrespectful and childish way. Specifically, Mr Jamhot I've always respected you as a player and you've always come across as a very nice person in game, but maybe you should try to take some of your own advice and do a little growing up. I'm not from England, but if I were I think I might be embarrassed by your comments in this thread as well.

I know Mandy well and we don't always get along either. I know in my heart that she would have never made some conscious choice to hurt your team. She's difficult sometimes...we all are, but she's not the monster some of you seem to believe she is. She was as excited to be a part of that team as anyone I know that participated in WoF, and I'm sure how it all turned out has hurt her greatly. I don't think she needs insulted to boot.
 
I know in my heart that she would have never made some conscious choice to hurt your team. She's difficult sometimes...we all are, but she's not the monster some of you seem to believe she is. She was as excited to be a part of that team as anyone I know that participated in WoF, and I'm sure how it all turned out has hurt her greatly. I don't think she needs insulted to boot.

sadly your heart is wrong.

I guess the team, the team captain and hurrikane must all be liers then
 
off topic, but only slightly.

i love this thread and ones similar. i love that the WOF and champs league and all the other worldwide events create real drama. MA doesn't give us a plot. we make it ourselves. this is our planet, we entertain ourselves.

the league is 'real' the drama is 'real'

i like this better than the no loot whine threads, the reseller threads, etc.
 
I guess the team, the team captain and hurrikane must all be liers then

I'm certainly not calling anyone a liar, and I don't understand how you could draw that conclusion from my post. I meant exactly what I said and not more so please don't try to extract extra meaning from my post. What I am saying is that I know her well enough to know that this isn't the way she would have wanted things to go down. Maybe it's entirely her fault, idk I wasn't there. But I know Mandy, and I know all she really wanted was to distinguish herself on behalf of her country. She is an honest and generous and generally decent colonist. And the way she's been disrespected in this thread doesn't lend any credibility to your argument that she is something else.
 
I'm certainly not calling anyone a liar, and I don't understand how you could draw that conclusion from my post. I meant exactly what I said and not more so please don't try to extract extra meaning from my post. What I am saying is that I know her well enough to know that this isn't the way she would have wanted things to go down. Maybe it's entirely her fault, idk I wasn't there. But I know Mandy, and I know all she really wanted was to distinguish herself on behalf of her country. She is an honest and generous and generally decent colonist. And the way she's been disrespected in this thread doesn't lend any credibility to your argument that she is something else.

im sorry I got from your post that you cannot believe this person acted in such a way. I'm simply stating that you are wrong and that all you need to do is ask the whole team and the team captain and hurrikane, mandy was a disruptive influence and THE WHOLE TEAM voted him off the team.

anyway your kinda trolling a dead thread so im out.
 
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im sorry I got from your post that you cannot believe this person acted in such a way.

Again I said nothing of the sort. I didn't say she wasn't (or was) disruptive or didn't deserved to be removed from the team. What I am saying is there have been quite a few replies to this thread that seemingly make a great example of the same behavior of which she has been accused.

anyway your kinda trolling a dead thread so im out.
I appreciate your effort to place yourself on the high road here, but that's an irrelevant and baseless accusation. I'm not interested in arguing the merits of why she was removed from the team. And I'm certainly not the type to go around looking for things to post about. I am simply offering up a decent character reference for a person I know to be good at heart. Wouldn't you do the same for someone you knew to be a good person?
 
*cough* troll *cough*
 
I'm certainly not calling anyone a liar, and I don't understand how you could draw that conclusion from my post. I meant exactly what I said and not more so please don't try to extract extra meaning from my post. What I am saying is that I know her well enough to know that this isn't the way she would have wanted things to go down. Maybe it's entirely her fault, idk I wasn't there. But I know Mandy, and I know all she really wanted was to distinguish herself on behalf of her country. She is an honest and generous and generally decent colonist. And the way she's been disrespected in this thread doesn't lend any credibility to your argument that she is something else.

Millie,

Mandy even creating such a thread and in true form in Mandy's view it is obvious to everyone that when Mandy doesn't get Mandy's way.... well the result is underhand comments to make "them" look bad and Mandy look hard done by.....

The reason I think this thread never took off as probably planned by Mandy is that people already know what Mandy can be like... ie, it only done Mandy more damage than good.

End of story, let it go... Mandy was removed from the team because of disruptive and at times "nasty" behaviour. If Mandy didnt realise this and never intended this then its been a good learning experience of how not to treat people.

Case closed.
 
Sure seems to be quite a few people that aren't so happy with Mandy's behavior. Ironic that some people chose to voice their displeasure in such a disrespectful and childish way. Specifically, Mr Jamhot I've always respected you as a player and you've always come across as a very nice person in game, but maybe you should try to take some of your own advice and do a little growing up. I'm not from England, but if I were I think I might be embarrassed by your comments in this thread as well.

I know Mandy well and we don't always get along either. I know in my heart that she would have never made some conscious choice to hurt your team. She's difficult sometimes...we all are, but she's not the monster some of you seem to believe she is. She was as excited to be a part of that team as anyone I know that participated in WoF, and I'm sure how it all turned out has hurt her greatly. I don't think she needs insulted to boot.

Your right maybe i was a little childish, but at the end of the day, whatever anyone may think about me, i am human. I can get pi$$ed off, i can get sad, i can get happy, i can get childish, i can lose my rag and be rude, i can be nice, i'm just like anyone else.

But one thing is, i will stand by what i say when i say it, i don't go back censoring myself. I like to think i'm somewhat of an open and honest person, and if i see something that stinks of crap, i'll call it so.

That may sometimes make me look childish, may sometimes make me look arrogant, may sometimes make me look like an asshole. Show me someone who doesn't show these traits from time to time and i'll show you a dead body or a complete lying bstrd.

More often than not i think i make good contributions to discussions, but when someone is trying to sully a great thing accusing all and sundry being involved liars, cheats and backstabbers, that makes my blood boil, and i can rant too! Maybe Mandy wants to think about all the people who fought valiantly for England WoF and they're the very people she's insulting, so don't come pulling me up, for throwing shit back. As for comments in this thread hurting Mandy, well al the shit he's posted in other threads has hurt other people and greatly insulted them, why should Mandy be any different?

Ok some of my peers show greater restraint than me and that's commendable, but I'm me and they're them.

Perceive me how you will, i'll keep on doing my own thing regardless, but don't expect me to suffer fools gladly, however high profile skilled/equipped they are. They all have eat sleep and shit like the rest of us.

Thankyou for your comments Millie,

all the best,

Jamhot
 
Again I said nothing of the sort. I didn't say she wasn't (or was) disruptive or didn't deserved to be removed from the team. What I am saying is there have been quite a few replies to this thread that seemingly make a great example of the same behavior of which she has been accused.


I appreciate your effort to place yourself on the high road here, but that's an irrelevant and baseless accusation. I'm not interested in arguing the merits of why she was removed from the team. And I'm certainly not the type to go around looking for things to post about. I am simply offering up a decent character reference for a person I know to be good at heart. Wouldn't you do the same for someone you knew to be a good person?

Kind of questioning just how well you know the person you are vouching for when you seem blissfully unaware "she" is a he....
 
I always thought Mandy was 'good at heart'

Still do a bit :hug:

Not that Im gonna explain to you ANYTHING Millie.

Cos who are you??

1 of 2 things.

Either Mandy on his lunch break having some fun.

OR

Someone that knows nothing about Mandy, or myself.. or even the entire England team.

So, with that in mind..

FUCK OFF.

You have no business here.. you know fuck all.

:mad:
 
OK.

Millie, yes you're right some of the responses to this thread were a bit harsh. At the same time Mandy came out and basically accused the entire squad of cheating. There's bound to be a few heated responses to that.

I think ultimately Mandy has had his say. Myself, and largely everyone involved have had their chance to respond. There's no real need to drag it on further and it largely falls under Rule 13 of this forum. So as a moderator I think its time for a lock. Everything relevant that was going to be said has been said. Mandy, if you disagree with that drop me a PM.

So for the time being :locked:
 
For once in Slappy's life he appears to have behaved impeccably and with uncharacteristic dignity. Forget WoF, thats a piece of history right there. :D

I was gutted to leave the team but it was unavoidable due to RL circumstances that took me by surprise - I was quite literally on an island with no power on the other side of the planet during the later stages. I am also jacketless heading into whats shaping up to be a nippy autumn although I am sure my sub will let me wear his from time to time to stop my nipples getting frost bite.

Besides, the way I see it if I live to the average life expectancy in the UK I have a good 40 more WoF's to go before I pop my clogs so I figure I'll probably get one before my times up.

Slappy
 
OK.

Millie, yes you're right some of the responses to this thread were a bit harsh. At the same time Mandy came out and basically accused the entire squad of cheating. There's bound to be a few heated responses to that.

I think ultimately Mandy has had his say. Myself, and largely everyone involved have had their chance to respond. There's no real need to drag it on further and it largely falls under Rule 13 of this forum. So as a moderator I think its time for a lock. Everything relevant that was going to be said has been said. Mandy, if you disagree with that drop me a PM.

So for the time being :locked:

its not locked yet it is still open jimmy
 
Ah, Jimmy, ur powers are failing ya, the Haitian must have been nearby when u tried to lock the thread there. :p

While I've got the chance, to add but a few comments. Never had any issue with you Mandy, but I did see you attack Hurrikane one time when he was being 100% diplomatic, and on the whole, I think if the entire team voted one way it's hard to justify that your view was the correct one.

Scotland were approached with the idea of a UK/Brit team but my personal view is England are powerful enough by themselves. 2007 I exspressed concern that the winners USA had an enormous land-mass to be able to pull players from and would always end up dominating WoF as a result of that, but then what happened? WoF 2008 and little Scotland defeated them.

And, yes, tho we fielded our weakest front team to date in our final match against France due to our Captain sleeping in, and our best player being late, and many other problems causing us to loose a game we felt sure to win - we did so knowing that even if we had won we would have stood no chance in the next round vs England. It really wasn't a concern, we wanted to get as far as we could, and thats what we did....and so did you, for England, you should be proud for you're country instead of feeling sorry for yourself as an individual.
 
Hmm, Moderator Log:

14:56, 27th Sep 2008711Thread moved to 'WoF 2008'.
01:44, 11th Oct 2008Jimmy BClosed Thread

:scratch2:


Anyhoo, np as long as it stays civil I guess ;)
 
I'm stunned... I got nothing to say
 
Hmm, Moderator Log:

14:56, 27th Sep 2008711Thread moved to 'WoF 2008'.
01:44, 11th Oct 2008Jimmy BClosed Thread

:scratch2:


Anyhoo, np as long as it stays civil I guess ;)

NOOOOOOOOOOOB! :silly2:
 
Oh crap, me having the last word didnt work out!! :vampire:

NOT AT ALL!!! :laugh:

Well before Jimmy... except he didnt LOL :silly2:

:rofl:
 
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