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An idea for MA

Miccey said:
I stoped playing, thinking "This game isnt THAT fun". Sure the RCE
IS a cool concept but it isnt working like a stable economy.

I started playing cause i thought it would be cool to have a game
that simulated the RL economy but in a game, at first i thought
hmm sweatning, not cool. But as i played more and more i found
that if im gonna do all the cool and fun things like crafting, hunting
and mining i need to depo. So i did, then i find that if im gonna keep
doing these fun things i have to KEEP depo. THAT isnt cool.

So i stoped playing all together and there ARE games out there
that are WAY cooler then this..ArmA II for one..
Click to expand...

I would have to disagree. The game is working like a real stable economy. Some of the new items dropped into the game do lose their inflated value rather quickly but that is to be expected. Most items will retain their value, and most will rise based on the player base expanded and more demand being created for the limited number of very nice items.

The Economy is also working in that those with the money, continue to make money. Those on the opposite end who are struggling to get money continue to struggle. This is very much a real example of how thing in Real Life are. I for one do not have the peds to allow things to collect in my storage to get the extra 4-8% that I would receive if I was to wait till I have 200-300 peds of that item to sell. The main problem with the economy is we don't have jobs in the game :) We need some way to acquire funds instead of depositing, as that is viewed as having lost out money. But in real life everything costs money. Although if you kill a chicken in real life "This Creature carried no Loot" doesn't exsist, you would still have 1 whole dead chicken...

I think a lot of the problem is in the Balancing of the Loot. While giving someone 120,000 peds all at once for killing a creature that costs... 30-50 peds to kill is a little excessive but it drives the rest of the community to deposit more and hunt more which is the goal of MindArk. They need to get the community to continue to deposit and spend money so they may continue operating. Now if 10 people got 12,000 peds loots it would probably still drive the community to deposit (I remember when I started and seeing anything over 1000 peds drove me to continue playing, still haven't got one for myself after 4 years either). Which brings me to my point, if 100 each received 1,200 peds much more often then the entire community would be rewarded much more frequently and cashing out would be less of a drain on the economy.

That is where I feel the real negative factor on the RCE is. When these players get these huge $12,000 (USD) loots and take all the money they can and run. If they are selling out their skills, equipment, etc. and leaving the game someone else has deposited (or got lucky and not withdrawn) in order to balance this out. Although that is still one less depositer which isn't good for MindArk either but it won't drain the economy as much as withdrawing an ATH.

The goal for MindArk needs to shift soon. We don't need to see the ATH's quite so frequently. We know they are there and should be something special. They shouldn't occur 2 days after each uber or event mob gets put on the planet, those peds had to come from somewhere and that is the loot from hunting other mobs, crafting, mining, etc. While they are at it why don't we see more random ATH's on mobs that don't cost an arm and a leg (skillwise and ammowise) although that also presents the withdrawl problem.

I for one am surprised that we haven't seen an ATH from Rocktropia yet, unless they really do have a completely different loot pool. Maybe a few of the Ubers are also realizing that they aren't going to get rewarded like every new uber mob that gets brought to Calypso and that is why the hunting seems to be declining as far as the global messages from Rocktropia are concerned.

In the idea of the free game, I have ponder this also. It would be sweet to play for free, but it would be really hard to have the same appeal. If you got a free opalo and all the ammo you wanted and the drop rates were the same, you would have 100,000 peds within a few months. The value of the uber gear would be much different depending on if the drop rates were more/less etc... but you would just amass so many PEDs that it wouldn't even be fun to play anymore (well maybe after depositing for 4 years it would be fun to be an Uber for a while, killing as much as you wanted)

It is the RCE that makes this game as awesome as it is. You have to work your way up the ranks, starting as a total Noob. You can sweat or deposit and start hunting your way through harder and harder mobs. If you get a Lucky HOF then your journey is much easier. If you have to deposit a lot to get to where you want to be then once you get that Uber HOF you will appreciate it that much more. But the ATH's are nothing more than a drain on the Economy because it is too many peds all at once, without something like LA's consistently available to suck those peds back into the economy.

Just my 2 cents
 
LostCube said:
I would have to disagree. The game is working like a real stable economy. Some of the new items dropped into the game do lose their inflated value rather quickly but that is to be expected. Most items will retain their value, and most will rise based on the player base expanded and more demand being created for the limited number of very nice items.

The Economy is also working in that those with the money, continue to make money. Those on the opposite end who are struggling to get money continue to struggle. This is very much a real example of how thing in Real Life are. I for one do not have the peds to allow things to collect in my storage to get the extra 4-8% that I would receive if I was to wait till I have 200-300 peds of that item to sell. The main problem with the economy is we don't have jobs in the game :) We need some way to acquire funds instead of depositing, as that is viewed as having lost out money. But in real life everything costs money. Although if you kill a chicken in real life "This Creature carried no Loot" doesn't exsist, you would still have 1 whole dead chicken...

I think a lot of the problem is in the Balancing of the Loot. While giving someone 120,000 peds all at once for killing a creature that costs... 30-50 peds to kill is a little excessive but it drives the rest of the community to deposit more and hunt more which is the goal of MindArk. They need to get the community to continue to deposit and spend money so they may continue operating. Now if 10 people got 12,000 peds loots it would probably still drive the community to deposit (I remember when I started and seeing anything over 1000 peds drove me to continue playing, still haven't got one for myself after 4 years either). Which brings me to my point, if 100 each received 1,200 peds much more often then the entire community would be rewarded much more frequently and cashing out would be less of a drain on the economy.

That is where I feel the real negative factor on the RCE is. When these players get these huge $12,000 (USD) loots and take all the money they can and run. If they are selling out their skills, equipment, etc. and leaving the game someone else has deposited (or got lucky and not withdrawn) in order to balance this out. Although that is still one less depositer which isn't good for MindArk either but it won't drain the economy as much as withdrawing an ATH.

The goal for MindArk needs to shift soon. We don't need to see the ATH's quite so frequently. We know they are there and should be something special. They shouldn't occur 2 days after each uber or event mob gets put on the planet, those peds had to come from somewhere and that is the loot from hunting other mobs, crafting, mining, etc. While they are at it why don't we see more random ATH's on mobs that don't cost an arm and a leg (skillwise and ammowise) although that also presents the withdrawl problem.

I for one am surprised that we haven't seen an ATH from Rocktropia yet, unless they really do have a completely different loot pool. Maybe a few of the Ubers are also realizing that they aren't going to get rewarded like every new uber mob that gets brought to Calypso and that is why the hunting seems to be declining as far as the global messages from Rocktropia are concerned.

In the idea of the free game, I have ponder this also. It would be sweet to play for free, but it would be really hard to have the same appeal. If you got a free opalo and all the ammo you wanted and the drop rates were the same, you would have 100,000 peds within a few months. The value of the uber gear would be much different depending on if the drop rates were more/less etc... but you would just amass so many PEDs that it wouldn't even be fun to play anymore (well maybe after depositing for 4 years it would be fun to be an Uber for a while, killing as much as you wanted)

It is the RCE that makes this game as awesome as it is. You have to work your way up the ranks, starting as a total Noob. You can sweat or deposit and start hunting your way through harder and harder mobs. If you get a Lucky HOF then your journey is much easier. If you have to deposit a lot to get to where you want to be then once you get that Uber HOF you will appreciate it that much more. But the ATH's are nothing more than a drain on the Economy because it is too many peds all at once, without something like LA's consistently available to suck those peds back into the economy.

Just my 2 cents
Click to expand...

just to throw this out there on the subject of ATH's. If i am not mistaken the ATH's getting hit for the most part could be on player owned land. and on the taxed land this pays the LA investors. Just to throw that out there. it kinda changes things a bit.
 
Well we at least drummed up some discussion here, so even a bad idea is worth discussing :) thanks for all the feedback everyone. Keep the brains polished!
 
As I see it the original topic was to create a 2 separate games. One for non-withdrawers and one for withdrawers. I still fail to see how lorespade and sloe have improved on this idea.

As for sloe's "player driven economy," umm... wtf do you think this current system is? How do you think players hoarding items and pushing items up in price is not effecting the economy? I'd say it's pretty player driven at the moment.

Edit: I do know what constructive criticism is. I also know when an idea is feasible and worth trying to fix. I stand by my original conclusion that this idea just won't work.

Edit 2: Something I tacked on to another post that I think is pretty relevant here:

Joser said:
<snip>

Lastly, don't assume that your opinion (ie "loot system is broken") is fact. Some people do very well for themselves in this current "broken" loot system. Don't assume that your idea of fun equates to others idea of fun. We each have our own ideas and thoughts as to how things should be, but FPC can't possibly conform to every situation.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
another proposal

I think the problem of having more new players requires, in first place, a change in communication strategy, with more advertising and promotion to attract them. This requires a good investment by MindArk, Planet Calypso, ROCKtropia and the rest of the planets.

We also need those new players stay in the game and not leave it a few days of start playing because they are bored of sweating and being so underpaid for that. For this to happen the price of sweat on the market should improve, to achieve this would be increased demand from consumers. With that goal would have to return immediately, with enhancements to the VU 9.4, all the tools that use Mindforce. MindArk also should keep the top of extraction in 4 bottles at a time.

Furthermore, in order to encourage entry and half level players I think MindArk should reduce the one or two uber HOF and distribute them in globals of 50 PED (10K Uber HoF = 200 x 50 PED global) Making more happy a larger number of players. Doing this has a big advantage for MindArk: a beginning player who receives a 50PED overall is much more likely to reinvest in ammo or equipment for mining, while the probability that a someone who receives a HoF Uber finished removing part of it to the RL is much greater.
 
khaos said:
This would only be possible if the game had 2 versions. The normal version, and a free one. This would need to be 2 separate games
Click to expand...

I always dreamed of a free version. A version where you could get insane amount of peds/weapons/armors but nothing of it has any value... Just play, have the same amount of returns as we do right now but you can just press a button "increase peds on card" and you get another 10k peds for ammo... I want to play this game because it is fun, too bad it is a bit expensive at some points... (200k for weapons? faps?) :(
 
The only way I could see this working would be if they setup a completely separate in game currency and only allowed it to be used in a special TT.

You would not be able to trade or drop this currency, that would pretty much destroy the in game economy.

It could allow you to play the game, but nothing could ever loot, and there could be no skill gain. Or perhaps it could mark any gains made as usable by your avatar only and unable to be auctioned.

The only thing I'm completely sure of is a system like this would have to be perfectly air tight. If there was a way to get stuff for free it would jeopardize the entire RCA. For that reason alone I doubt we will ever see it.

But it is a fun idea.
 
¿Everything free? I think it would be a boring game. What gives emotion is just that things ingame have real value. If everything is free, ¿What would be the expectation when the the loot screen opens? no one. If the loot is not what we want we could go hunting until we get what we want at no cost. We all would have the most powerful weapon, armor and nobody would hunt anything other than the uber mobs. Boring.
 
Lorespade said:
just to throw this out there on the subject of ATH's. If i am not mistaken the ATH's getting hit for the most part could be on player owned land. and on the taxed land this pays the LA investors. Just to throw that out there. it kinda changes things a bit.
Click to expand...

Hmm haven't looked at the ATH list too closely but..

Aurli and Kretlin were all before (I believe) Buzz bought it, so FPC Land
Proteron are on FPC as we are still awaiting the fabled DNA
Longtooth = Event mob on FPC Land
Scipulor are on FPC land
Leviathan are on FPC land
Mulmun Are PVP4 so FPC Land

Daspalator is on NeverDie's CND so that one support your argument
Hogglo and Fresquoda although smaller ATH's are Deathfiliers TI

Crafting ATH are crafting so no one sees a cut.
Mining would be one that actually gives some back to the player owned areas, although NeverDie would be the most benefited from this as it used to be rather turned up for the ores/enmatters.

In conclusion I would say maximum 30% of ATH's are on Player owned LA's
 
khaos said:
This would only be possible if the game had 2 versions. The normal version, and a free one. This would need to be 2 separate games
Click to expand...

What Khoas said. Only way possible.
 
Lorespade said:
Yeah people. you have not flamed the OP but you really didnt offer anything good as far as changing the idea. (some posters are exempted)


Well Here is my take on the whole situation. And What i have chosen to do to fix it or help things out.

Well My loots had sucked. a few months ago. So i had Desided to take a new approch to the game. Some still in the experimental and testing of things as i have been doing the past 7 month sence starting.

So I want to help out other players as well as set myself up for a long term investment. Now i have stopped skilling all together. I have stopped doing any professions. But i have not stopped contributing to the game.

What i have mostly done is Figured out what item i could invest in that would Help out everyone out and buffer some losses for others. I have Chosen to Buy Nova Fragments and Blazers, To provide an added value to those selling these items.

Now the thing is, This is fun to me. it isnt fun for everyone. And I buy only on the market, and only at market prices. What this has shown me over the past month is a few things.

1: So many people sell their loot to the 1st person they see, and do not follow market trends, or have any trust in the market system. or trust in the fees that the market has.

2: The fact that Resellers... well i should rephrase this. "Bottemfeeder Resellers" Are Sapping mark ups from the people putting money into the game. and gathering the items. Not a bad thing imo. But....

3: Players that do not take the time to sell their items at the best possible price, and allow a reseller to rob players from their deserved mark-up. If you allow this to happen you are missing out on a return of your money.

4: Most players are to quick to want to get back to getting more loot. This is bad for 2 reasons.

4A: The more loot of a certain type could lower the value of that type becouse the supply is more than the demand.

4B:When this happens Resellers will offer you less, but still sell the item at a artificial value, hurting crafters in the long run.

If the Item does not have a liquid backing. meaning if the person with the item paid half the value for the item and gets the full value when they sell it. They hurt 2 people the supplyer and the person with the real demand. Middle men Are good and bad. They keep you liquid, at the expence of taking your profits.

To many Resellers have went into Bottemfeeding Mode. and for the most part do not want to take the risks to move prices higher. They bottem feed becouse players enable them. Always wanting to stay liquid themselves just taking a little bit of value every item they trade out. some dont even deposit their own money to buy the items. its smart but it does not add value to the items in the long run.

Now. To split the game into a non withdrawl, for certain avatars. Well Right now for you this is how you are playing the game. You play, you pay MA, And reward other players your mark ups. You wont be making any withdrawls I assure you. and the people that can withdrawl are the people getting the best share of the money.

And Here is a hint. The people Getting the most shares of the money are not the people hunting and mining. they are the people taking the mark-ups from the players, taxes, travel fee's. Now the people that play at their skill level, and are eco about it are also 1st in line to get the best loots and what not. But is not always 100%.

So i dont know man. I really dont know what to tell ya. Your idea kinda isn't realistic. at least the way your preceiving it to be. Becouse if your playing with monopoly money and everyone else with real money, how are you any help to the game. or even why play this game in general? You play this game becouse of the real money oppertunitys. the real long term investment. Everything you do in this game over time could pay out in some way later. Are you sure you want to limit yourself to not withdrawing?


In closing..

Stop looking for the luck Varible. the big loots are not good things. becouse odds are you will have paid that big loot with your own money.

Instead look for the Mark-up for the items. hell If you feel gutsy buy and hold a certain item as a investment. If you get some cheep, and want to sell for more push the mark up by buying out the competitors. buy off the market so the transactions are recorded. Trust me people live by the Mark ups posted.

But there is far more to it than that. ofc. want some personal hints pm me.
Click to expand...

You made a really good post with some valid ideas. Except what I made in bold. I am gunna have to disagree with ya there ;-) The more eco your play, the more eco your returns. Except of course that random uber loot that drops in your lap. This is of course my opinion back upped by my own personal experience.


:twocents:

Windzor
 
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