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Why Basic Filters? 1K Click Tests.

M

mdubeyg

Old
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Posts
81
Hello,
From the time i first started playing Entropia Universe, crafting was a proffesion that always fascinated me. Whenever i used to talk about crafting with any other avatars on calypso, the basic advise i used to get was "Start with basic filters". I could never understand why.

The first reason was Basic filters blueprint do not have SIB.
What my knowledge says is, if you invest 100 PEDs in basic filters and if you spend same 100 PEDs in Simple SI Ion Conductors (Blueprint which has SIB), The skill gain will be more in conductors.

The Second Reason is Basic Filters is useless. It is crafted just to be thrown into tt. Why not craft SI Ion, Sheet Metal, Basic wires or any other which has some markup on them. They can be sold for a few extra pecs.

Basic Filters have less cost per click. But, how does that helps. wouldn't be this like using mann mph to skill up instead of opallo? Even generic leather texture has low cost per click and has SIB. It can be equally used to Skill up to unlock BPC.

However, I am not experienced enough in this game. So, I decided to go with the advice of more experienced avatars. It is also possible that tt returns is more with basic filters.
I accumulated 55 - 60 PEDs and started crafting basic filters. Hereby, i am posting the results of my each 1K clicks on basic filters.
______________________________________________

1st 1K clicks

Before clicks -
TT Of materials : 50 PEDs
Blueprint Quality Rating : 49.1
Manufacture mechanical epuipment skill : 77

1 hour 30 mins later.

After Clicks -
TT of materials : 46.36 (including Filters, Residues and leftover oil)
Blueprint Quality Rating : 54.2
Manufacture mechanical equipment skill : 96

Percentage Returns 92.72%

Amazing. Did not expect more than 70% returns.
__________________________________________________

Second 1K clicks.

Before clicks-

TT of material : 50 PEDs
Blueprint quality rating : 54.2
Manufacture mechanical equipment skill : 96

after clicks-
TT of material : 38.30
Blueprint Quality rating : 59.1
Manufacture mechanical equipment skill : 114

percentage return : 76.6%

hmm.. not as good as the first one.
have to sweat a lot to make up the loss.
___________________________________________

Third 1K Clicks

Before clicks :-
TT of materials : 50
Blueprint quality rating : 59.1
Manufacture Mechanical equipment Skills : 114

After Clicks :-
TT of materials : 36.06
Blueprint Quality Rating : 64.9
Manufacture Mechanical Equipment Skills : 130

TT returns : 72.12%
 
Last edited:
Tests

Overall TT Spend : 150
Overall returns : 120.72
Percentage : 80.48%
 
Last edited:
The reason Most people use Basic filters is that before SIB this was the cheapest and best way to skill(afaik). It was the first blueprint you bought att the technitian.

If you shall keep on going with BF you should use the slider more to quality then quantity so you recive more Residue and sell those for a little MU, but mabye you should do bigger runs for that.
 
When I started to craft I went against the mainstream and started with Basic Metal Sheets. Nothing a regreat today. I did not put SIB in to account, it was more the project of building my BMS bp up to 1.0 and making a profit while I did so.
 
mdubeyg said:
The first reason was Basic filters blueprint do not have SIB.
What my knowledge says is, if you invest 100 PEDs in basic filters and if you spend same 100 PEDs in Simple SI Ion Conductors (Blueprint which has SIB), The skill gain will be more in conductors.
Click to expand...

I am not sure the extra skill gains part is true. I think SIB blueprints just max level wise at a set level while non-SIB max level wise at crafting 100, so for "normal" people these have a higher cos.

At least I haven't seen extra skill gains from SIB blueprints, but this is of course, hardly conclusive.
 
I don't claim this is a normal run, but thought I would do a run and give you the data from it, I've been clicking filters from any lyst/oil i get mining lately so let me know if you would like me to continue giving you my data or if you would prefer to do it all yourself.

Before going to bed last night I put 272ped of oil/lyst in the machine, that's about 5.4k of each.

When I woke up i had:
749 lyst = 22.47
860 oil = 17.20
12726 filters = 127.26
3808 em residue = 38.08
5745 metal residue = 57.45

Total back is 262.46ped

subtracting the unused oil/lyst from the figures I used 232.33ped of materials and got 222.79ped back.

222.79/232.33 = 95.89%return vs the tt

If i count the residue at 106% I would get an extra 5.73ped which would give me

228.52/232.33 = 98.36% return rate.

I am using a 100qr bp on the "tity" setting of the slider. My mechanical engineer profession level is only about 5.3.

good luck and have fun ;)
 
I kept statistics when getting my Basic Filters BP from QR 1 to 100.
It cost me 1486 PED (tt) and I got 1214 PED (tt) back (in oil & residue)
This means I got a return of 82%. (This was mostly pre VU10)
 
remontoire said:
I think SIB blueprints just max level wise at a set level while non-SIB max level wise at crafting 100, so for "normal" people these have a higher cos.
Click to expand...

Nope.

Regarding SIB on BPs: would be interested to see your results but 1k clicks isn't nearly enough to make a conclusive comparison.
 
When Metal Residue was 140% clicking Basic Filters was great :D

The big benefit is the low cost per click which means you can collect a lot of blueprints and can raise your QR up to a high level (therefore giving a better chance of success and hence return) without huge expense.

Generic Leather now does more or less the same job but of course you get different BPs and different skills.

For building initial crafting skills and/or unlocking BPC I would suggest either of the two, but if you want faster skills with a bit more risk there are better alternatives e.g. Large Striped Cotton Texture.
 
Doer said:
Nope.
Click to expand...

Nope as in ... you do get more skills when clicking too BP-s with same TT cost per click but one with SIB and the otehr without? Or nope as in what?

Doer said:
Regarding SIB on BPs: would be interested to see your results but 1k clicks isn't nearly enough to make a conclusive comparison.
Click to expand...

So far as I have seen, the main driving force behind skill gains from clicking is the TT value per click. Possibly combined with level of the blueprint. But I'm nowhere near rich enough to do tests in crafting.
 
The way I perceive the SiB BPs is that, the skill increase is slightly better, but really hardly noticeable and returns are not that good until you have a high QR either.
Doer already explained, why Filters were the BP to click for starters. MU on Lyst and Oil was also quite near TT value then.
When I started over two years ago, everyone also advised me to click filters, was dumb enough to rely on that for 3 months.
Rule of thumb: the higher the TT value per click, the higher the skill gains.
Any BP that produces things that are not sellable is nothing to click on.
If you are even a halfway serious amateur in crafting, you will see the BPs as your "tools" and the higher the QR on them, the cheaper you get the components for higher level BPs.
Textures are not really good to unlock BPC, you can expect that it will take you at least 4 times longer to unlock than it would take you with comps. Skill gain there is very slow, that why unlocking Material extraction is an archievement, takes you the same time as unlocking BPC with components.
 
1269 clicks worth of oil/lyst last night = 63.45ped

When I woke up:

3445 filters = 34.45ped
1525 energy residue = 15.25ped
11.53 metal residue = 11.53ped
45 oil = 0.90ped
7 new bps = 0.07ped

tt return rate 62.20/63.45 = 98%

106% for the residue gives me an extra 1.60ped
63.80/63.45 = 100.5% returns after mu (if i sold myself the oil/lyst for tt)

Again using "tity" settings on the slider with a 100qr bp.

I am having better returns with the 100qr bp than I was when experimenting wtih fresh ones a couple weeks ago. I would take a 0qr bp and do 5k clicks/250ped on it. That would bring it from 0qr to 60qr regardless of where the slider was. I tried 3 different ones, "quantity", "quality" and "tity" and was getting 60-80% returns. I had hoped that the return rate would be the same with more residue for mu, but that doesnt seem to be the case. (though I admit even my 15+k clicks is still a fairly small sample size)

gl and have fun,

narfi
 
k, stupid question but....

what is the "tity" setting Narfi?
 
xentric said:
I assume he means quantity.
Click to expand...

Narfi said the wrong word in his post.

It is Quantity and Condition. :)

....and I think he meant in the middle for "tity" but not sure.:ahh:
 
Talania said:
Narfi said the wrong word in his post.

It is Quantity and Condition. :)

....and I think he meant in the middle for "tity" but not sure.:ahh:
Click to expand...

oops sorry.

Yeah I ment Quantity and Condition.

"tity" is when the slider is directly under the last 4 letters of the word quantity on the machine.
 
Now the world makes sense again ;)

Thanks Narfi
 
Right on good stuff Narfi
 
narfi said:
oops sorry.

Yeah I ment Quantity and Condition.

"tity" is when the slider is directly under the last 4 letters of the word quantity on the machine.
Click to expand...

BTW....who do you know that names them Quantity and Condition? :D
 
Talania said:
BTW....who do you know that names them Quantity and Condition? :D
Click to expand...

lol, now I'm really confused. I'm not in game right now or a crafter. Did I use the wrong terms again?
 
I started (on both avatars) with simple I plastic springs and did v.well (especially with my first avatar).
I don't think SIB increases skillgains and if it does, it's so minute that it's barely noticeable. Would be cool if someone who's more pedantic could quantify the difference.
:thumbup:
 
IMHO, the guides that advise "go with basic filters" are outdated. That was indeed the way to go until Book II SIB components came along, but now that they are here, I would say start with Book II lvl 1 components, and follow that path.
I'm no expert, and my experience may be a "dynamic" fluke, but I got better returns (ie, less loss) and more globals (wheee) from Book II.
Also, a Book II bp at QR100 can be sold for a better price than Book I bp's, if you are inclined to do that. Excepting sheet metal and bolts..or nuts or whatever the MA-101 bp eats.
Anyway, everyone's path seems to be different enough to make me think that maybe MA randomizes it a bit, so do what works for you.
 
1014clicks of materials = 50.70ped

When I woke up I had,

2555 filters = 25.55ped
272 Energy Residue = 2.72ped
948 Metal Residue = 9.48ped
15 oil = 0.30ped
5 new bps = 0.05ped

Total return = 33.10
33.10/50.70 = 65.28% returns

106% for the residue gives me another 73pec
33.83/50.70 = 66.72% returns (if i sold myself the oil/lyst at tt)

good luck,
narfi
 
Phil Surtees said:
more globals (wheee) from Book II.
Click to expand...

Well, there's nothing from book II with 7 pecs/click. It's a lot higher input so more globals would be expected.

I haven't crafted much since Book II was added so i can't comment on relative returns. Actually, the higher minimum ante for a click puts me off of it now.
 
I started (on both avatars) with simple I plastic springs and did v.well (especially with my first avatar).
Click to expand...
I think it's based on loot system, which is based on what higher level people are doing... Since lots of people use SIB (L) weapons and amps, it makes sense that the components to go in there are going to be doing higher turnover then old school book I... However, some stuff that is L requires the old school bps as components, so it really depends on what's being made and who is doing what/when... My theory is that there's always x amount of any one item in game... as soon as it dissappears, due to being TTed or used, another one shows up in loot pool somewhere.
 
I went to bed with 4274 clicks of materials, 213.70ped

I woke up with,
11376 filters = 113.76ped
3497 metal residue = 34.97ped
4278 energy residue = 42.78ped
159 oil = 3.18ped
30 new bps = 0.30ped

total = 194.99ped returned
194.99/213.70 = 91.24% return rate

if I count the residue at 106% it gives me an extra 4.66ped
199.65/213.70 = 93.42% returns counting mu(if i sold myself the oil/lyst at tt)

good luck,
narfi
 
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